Why do so many people in Ireland want to die?

gollyitsolly

Why has Ireland got such a huge suicide rate? Its a fantastic country with a really young population? Why ?

Wagon

Because it's ****e.

1. The weather is ****e
2. The people may be young but they can also be a bunch of aggressive bastards when they want to be.
3. Extremely expensive and difficult to make a decent living in, practically impossable for the young generation to buy a gaff. Rent is high as well. you have to spend your weeks wages if you want a pint etc...
4 Cigarettes are insanely expensive. It's not a good habit to begin with but the reason they're so bloody expensive is because of the numerous groups who try and get these things banned or discontinues. Im just using this as an example though. Its the big brother is watching type of thing. Ireland seems to have a government that thinks it knows whats best for you, they are also retards (port tunnel cock up for example)
5. The young population are now quite commonly found to be a shower of budding criminals in tracksuits.
6. Legal system is a complete mess. You can't defend yourself in your own home anymore.
7. Health service isn't worth thinking about after this sentence.

In conclusion, Ireland is not good. It's a poxy pissy little piece of land on the edge of a cold sea and that's why i might be legging it when i finish college.

Overheal

Gots me. I remember reading in the paper about that girl that jumped in front of a train on the day of her Junior Cert results; then there was that other story about the parents that off'd their kids and then committed suicide. Some really sick stuff and I'd like to know why too.

Overheal

Wagon wrote: »

Because it's ****e.

1. The weather is ****e
2. The people may be young but they can also be a bunch of aggressive bastards when they want to be.
3. Extremely expensive and difficult to make a decent living in, practically impossable for the young generation to buy a gaff. Rent is high as well. you have to spend your weeks wages if you want a pint etc...
4 Cigarettes are insanely expensive. It's not a good habit to begin with but the reason they're so bloody expensive is because of the numerous groups who try and get these things banned or discontinues. Im just using this as an example though. Its the big brother is watching type of thing. Ireland seems to have a government that thinks it knows whats best for you.
5. The young population are now quite commonly found to be a shower of budding criminals in tracksuits.
6. Legal system is a complete mess. You can't defend yourself in your own home anymore.
7. Health service isn't worth thinking about after this sentence.

In conclusion, Ireland is not good. It's a poxy pissy little piece of land on the edge of a cold sea and that's why i might be legging it when i finish college.

You just described America, and in a direct comparison, Ireland is a haven. Not so much the cigarettes but every business in the system is trying to empty your pockets.

AJG

This thread should probably be moved as its not really a Personal Issue although its a good point.

I've often wondered this myself though and could never quite put my finger on it.

I came to the conclusion that maybe some people lack some kind of passion or focus in their lives i.e. like a hobby or pastime (but not limited strictly to this it could be getting involved with community or charity work).

So much life today seems to spiral around commute, job, get locked, buy stuff I don't need, buy bigger car to be stuck in traffic with etc.

Maybe people just lose hope I really don't know but I'd be interested to hear others opinions.

Wibbs

The weather, genetics, rapidly changing social situations, the feeling that if it's so great why am I not getting on better, lack of a decent medical service never mind in the field of mental health, work pressure, holdover from that particularly Irish grey dour catholicism, social life revolving around alcohol, etc etc. Take your pick. It does seem to be very high here though, especially among men. I've known 4 men who took their own life. The scary part is that in each case the death was recorded as "natural" or an "accident". Look at the official stats and then wonder how many more are absent. Scary thought.

That all said it's more a thing for humanities maybe gollyitsolly. I won't close the thread I'l leave it to better counsel, though it should be discussed.

gollyitsolly

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Why has Ireland got such a huge suicide rate? Its a fantastic country with a really young population? Why ?

See, were not big and I know we have an island mentality but I seem to read that we have a huge amount of young men who commit suicide.
My God what is wrong with us and our lives here?,

Wagon

Overheal wrote: »

You just described America, and in a direct comparison, Ireland is a haven. Not so much the cigarettes but every business in the system is trying to empty your pockets.

Not quite, America thinks it knows what's best for other countries but i see what you mean though. We have got crappy weather though

AJG wrote: »

So much life today seems to spiral around commute, job, get locked, buy stuff I don't need, buy bigger car to be stuck in traffic with etc.

Maybe people just lose hope I really don't know but I'd be interested to hear others opinions.

You're probably bang on the nail there. Its just society believes that you have to prove yourself in material wealth.

Wibbs

Further on Wagons's number four, I read recently that we're among the most regulated countries in the world. Big bro aint in it. Massively regulated yet sod all works. Ya have to laugh really. Then again those who can't may be where the problem lies. I do notice a lack of personal identity in many, particularly young men. I might notice that more being a bloke though. Hard to say.

WindSock

Island Fever.

unreggd

Overheal wrote: »

You just described America, and in a direct comparison, Ireland is a haven. Not so much the cigarettes but every business in the system is trying to empty your pockets.

Yes, no chance of America havin nice weather

Wagon your post is spot on

I think everyone suffers from some sort of depression

Weather is always wet and cold

Everything costs too much, and theres sweet fvckall to do!

Add that do us bein one of the biggest alcohol consumers


no chance in hell of me settling down here. theres so much more out there its unreal

Wagon

Wibbs wrote: »

Further on Wagons's number four, I read recently that we're among the most regulated countries in the world. Big bro aint in it. Massively regulated yet sod all works. Ya have to laugh really. Then again those who can't may be where the problem lies. I do notice a lack of personal identity in many, particularly young men. I might notice that more being a bloke though. Hard to say.

Regulated we are so. Sorry about that

People are very reserved. This can apply to many different scenarios, such as the whole sleeping around with whoever they can, drinking till your sick, getting as much money in the bank as possible, buying the latest cars etc... It seems that people are afraid to be themselves so they try to be the person they think everyone wants them to me. And those who just want to be themselves can be shunned by society quite badly. What's the point in living in a world where you can't be accepted for who you are?

gollyitsolly

Wibbs wrote: »

Further on Wagons's number four, I read recently that we're among the most regulated countries in the world. Big bro aint in it. Massively regulated yet sod all works. Ya have to laugh really. Then again those who can't may be where the problem lies. I do notice a lack of personal identity in many, particularly young men. I might notice that more being a bloke though. Hard to say.

Mmmmmm. I think, and Im not big educated, but cos we live on an island we have a built in defence system to defend ourselves. Now ,when outsiders come onto our island we feel threatened. American tv is an outsider, rite, so we cant compete ,rite,so we feel inferior. We are bombasted with american movies and lifestyle programmes and if we cant compete or live their lifestle, then we are not WORTHY.Im trying to explain myself but not doing very well....

heyjude

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Its a fantastic country...

Well thats one view of it, but if you don't have the qualifications, the good job with great hours and long holidays, if you therefore can't afford a house/apartment, can't afford a nice car or to travel the world, if you have nobody to love or who loves you(in a relationship rather than a family sense ie. loneliness) and don't have the patience to wait months or can't afford to pay for the help you need to see a reason to live. Then maybe it isn't so fantastic after all.

Having said all that, sometimes people who have all these things still take their own lives.

The danger of the Celtic Tiger years has been that the increased pressure to get the bigger, better, newer, more expensive, more exclusive everything, has led to a situation where if you feel like you don't measure up, you can end up feeling like a failure especially if expectations are set unrealistically high. And with little support for those like this that feel left behind, tragedies can happen.

Dr. Loon

Wagon wrote: »

Because it's ****e.

1. The weather is ****e
2. The people may be young but they can also be a bunch of aggressive bastards when they want to be.
3. Extremely expensive and difficult to make a decent living in, practically impossable for the young generation to buy a gaff. Rent is high as well. you have to spend your weeks wages if you want a pint etc...
4 Cigarettes are insanely expensive. It's not a good habit to begin with but the reason they're so bloody expensive is because of the numerous groups who try and get these things banned or discontinues. Im just using this as an example though. Its the big brother is watching type of thing. Ireland seems to have a government that thinks it knows whats best for you, they are also retards (port tunnel cock up for example)
5. The young population are now quite commonly found to be a shower of budding criminals in tracksuits.
6. Legal system is a complete mess. You can't defend yourself in your own home anymore.
7. Health service isn't worth thinking about after this sentence.

In conclusion, Ireland is not good. It's a poxy pissy little piece of land on the edge of a cold sea and that's why i might be legging it when i finish college.

Ye should try living in Nepal, Cambodia, Somalia etc. Ireland is heaven in comparison. Grass is always greener... America's a **** hole. England's crap so is France, and I could go on. Most of the points you have above apply to every other country in the world. Methinks they are not the answer. I don't know what is, but being the usual pissy moaning Irish eejit isn't the answer.

In fact, maybe it is. We all tend to moan a lot. You're post of ****e just depressed me. You could be on to something.

Sqaull20

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Why has Ireland got such a huge suicide rate? Its a fantastic country with a really young population? Why ?

Like how bad can it be, when a 20 year old kid can drive around an Impreza, get hammered every weekend, live with his mates and go on a 2 week party spree to the canaries evey summer...

What more can you want?

Alot of the foreign nationals working here, cant get their heads around the suicide problems in Ireland..

The Artist

i thinks the way that ireland has too many laws and bans which make our lives misserable eg
wanting to close down off licences
health board gone upside down
smoking ban in pubs as too much more trouble outside than inside
theme parks no ,insurance costs too much
bookies open sundays
not much going for teens in many parts of ireland,waterparks,skateparks,etc
guardi are not trained to save a life!
the whole goverment is shambles (today easter trips millions!)
it just goes on on.
were in the euro everthing too expensive (cheaper in holiday resorts eg spain)
I think the public are not heard here as we should be able to vote for any change of issues that come but no the goverment slaps down anything and we dont have a say!:mad::mad:

gollyitsolly

Totally agree that we have no theme parks or entertainment for teenagers.Between 12 and 18 is limboland in Ireland if your a teenager.

Wagon

Dr. Loon wrote: »

Methinks they are not the answer. I don't know what is, but being the usual pissy moaning Irish eejit isn't the answer.

In fact, maybe it is. We all tend to moan a lot. You're post of ****e just depressed me. You could be on to something.

Ah I know there are worse places in the world! I never said i think its a third world country. The question is why is there a suicide rate in Ireland (that's a developed country with huge immigration, wealthiest in Europe), not a bloody minefield.

It depressed me too but that's just what i think. I'm not the only one either. The suicide rate is only high among men as well. Weird pattern.

gollyitsolly

Wagon wrote: »

Ah I know there are worse places in the world! I never said i think its a third world country. The question is why is there a suicide rate in Ireland (that's a developed country with huge immigration, wealthiest in Europe), not a bloody minefield.

It depressed me too but that's just what i think. I'm not the only one either. The suicide rate is only high among men as well. Weird pattern.

From observing my son, he is in a constant competition to be good looking, witty, fit , driving the right car,having the best looking girl........yeah,the fellas in Ireland have to work hard,.......its not right

The Artist

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Totally agree that we have no theme parks or entertainment for teenagers.Between 12 and 18 is limboland in Ireland if your a teenager.

irelands in a nanny state id say.

Wagon

gollyitsolly wrote: »

From observing my son, he is in a constant competition to be good looking, witty, fit , driving the right car,having the best looking girl........yeah,the fellas in Ireland have to work hard,.......its not right

I see it quite a bit too. Who are we trying to prove ourselves to though?

Overheal

You cant trust statistics: they get written off as accidental to keep Ireland low on the Suicide Statistics panel. I'm just offering conjecture but that would seem to make sense.

I believe there was one mob hit in america back in the day where he was shot 14 times or something mobtacular. The police called it the worst case of suicide they had ever seen. Its just searching for the convenient truth.

axer

davey180 wrote: »

i thinks the way that ireland has too many laws and bans which make our lives misserable

We don't have enough - and the ones we do have are not policed properly.

davey180 wrote: »

wanting to close down off licences

Might not be a bad thing - we don't know when enough is enough

davey180 wrote: »

health board gone upside down

agreed

davey180 wrote: »

smoking ban in pubs as too much more trouble outside than inside

One of the best laws this country ever came up with.

davey180 wrote: »

theme parks no ,insurance costs too much
bookies open sundays
not much going for teens in many parts of ireland,waterparks,skateparks,etc
guardi are not trained to save a life!
the whole goverment is shambles (today easter trips millions!)
it just goes on on.
were in the euro everthing too expensive (cheaper in holiday resorts eg spain)
I think the public are not heard here as we should be able to vote for any change of issues that come but no the goverment slaps down anything and we dont have a say!:mad::mad:

Agree with the rest.

davey180 wrote: »

irelands in a nanny state id say.

Far from it compared to other countries.

I think a major problem we have in Ireland is the taboo and lack of understanding assosciated with mental health. I see in Germany where I live that there are far more psycological services available in the towns than in Ireland as from what I can see people think your mental/a lunatic here if you go see a pyscologist.

This sounds like a topic for humanities

The Artist

how do you do that all that separated quotes id like to try that?

bronte

It's multi quote davey, next to the quote button
The high male suicide rate always bothers me, Every time I hear of one , it's always a young guy I wish they were able to talk about it more.

Overheal

axer wrote: »

I think a major problem we have in Ireland is the taboo and lack of understanding assosciated with mental health. I see in Germany where I live that there are far more psycological services available in the towns than in Ireland as from what I can see people think your mental/a lunatic here if you go see a pyscologist.

This sounds like a topic for humanities

I have to agree. In part.

I've listened to a lot of people and I'm of the opinion most things can be solved by the individual, but when you go to a doctor or a psychologist about your depression: instead of the counseling that you need which can cost time and money, the solution is to throw meds at the problem. That causes social stigmas in itself, as apparent in my attitude toward meds.

The other thing is: availability. Especially in kids. Sure I had some problems and once or twice I even asked to see a counselor (for all the wrong reasons - blame the parents) so I was turned down by folks on a count of that and a count of money. It probably wouldve done some good to sit a session or two. Thing was I have been to a few when I was much younger (a couple times during the post-divorce and a couple times after I moved in with my father... the times when the parents actually acknowledge something might be wrong but this does not happen in all cases and many suicides come from otherwise normal families) and I always had this very bad habit of not saying anything to the counselor/shrink/quack... after a few sessions they called it quits on me and prescribed ADs - ADs which according to recent studies, were placebos anyway. Thanks for the $30 bottle of placebos guys.

So especially in young kids and teens its hard (a) to get to a counselor (b) get to a counselor you are comfortable enough to talk to and (c) convey your feelings. A lot of that stops kids from saying anything at all. You sometimes have been asked as you were growing up (perhaps) "are there any problems at home?" and while there may be, the answer is usually "no" - either because you think its normal or you think that it will work itself out. Things go unsaid, unsolved long enough and... yeah.

In adults, hard to say. Never been genuinely suicidal myself. I do know however that in college the benefit of a free counselor is great if you can muster up the 30 seconds to write an email asking for an appointment. I tells ya, maybe it was the intervening 10 years since I'd last tried going to one but it was beneficial: I talked. Went to 2x1 hour sessions this year and they probably shaved 6 weeks of moping around off my schedule.

But then even by her [my college counselor's] own admission not as many people are so in touch with themselves that they can really speak honestly and concisely about themselves and how they feel about others. Thats another part of it. Thats another reason why people resort to violence too: I'm convinced violence is just an outlet for expressing things we dont otherwise know how to express [thats my own words]. Outward violence - you attack others. Inward violence - you attack yourself. Its dependant in what you are upset with. The key to dealing with violence is learning how to correctly interpret and express your feelings. With a strong emphasis on interpretation. I failed to do that a couple months ago, so I went to a counselor to help me find out why. within the first hour I had found what I was looking for.

So then I feel it has a lot less to do with throwing meds at the problem then it does about counseling. The problem lies in (a) the social stigmas behind being in touch with your feelings (b) the cost and approachability of counseling (c) the tendancy/triage methods doctors and psychologists take by simply prescribing ADs without addressing the issues. And of course a Lot of education has to be invested in self help: something I taught myself; something most people teach themselves. But not everyone does, and they need to be addressed.

R0C0

Ok...
Irelands suicide problem is not about the weather.. nor the health sytem.. its not the price of cigarettes.. its not the smoking ban.. its not property prices.. its not the lack of theme parks..

Jesus guys its not rocket science, we live in a country where EVERYTHING revolves around an alcoholic social scene. Alcohol is a depressant. Simple as.

kraggy

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are the most guilt-ridden nation on the planet. After the Germans.

This is probably got to do with the clenched fist the Church has held over us for centuries. We can't even have sex but feel bad about it because the Church says it's wrong (before marriage).

That's my tuppence anyway.

Beruthiel

golly
Read the charter before posting threads.
Not a PI.
Moved to Humanities.
B

liamo

R0C0 wrote: »

Ok...
Irelands suicide problem is not about the weather.. nor the health sytem.. its not the price of cigarettes.. its not the smoking ban.. its not property prices.. its not the lack of theme parks..

Jesus guys its not rocket science, we live in a country where EVERYTHING revolves around an alcoholic social scene. Alcohol is a depressant. Simple as.

Best post so far.

I think some people have had so much handed to them for their entire life that they begin to think that life owes them a job, a house, a nice car, respect, etc.

Well, here's a thought - "No, it doesn't !!"

Grow up. Stop moaning. Change what you don't like. Put up with what you can't change. Take responsibility for what you do and accept that a lot of what happens to you is as a result of your own actions and decisions. And sometimes sh*t just happens - deal with it!

gordon_gekko

few countries have witnessed such a rapid change in such a short period of time like ireland has

20 yrs ago we were one of the poorest countries in europe , now were the wealthiest or at least top 5 , the catholic church was once the main voice of authority , we have a weak goverment and leader and we all know what happend the church so now there is no voice of authority

suicide is always higher in countries where religon is not important ( scandanavia ) there was a time that people would stay miserable because haven listend to the priest , they were sure they would be hellbound if they commited suicide

all theese changes have led to this generation having little if anything in common with previous generations , weve no one to guide us in this new ireland

gollyitsolly

Beruthiel wrote: »

golly
Read the charter before posting threads.
Not a PI.
Moved to Humanities.
B

No problem B. Apologies.

Dudess

R0C0 wrote: »

Ok...
Irelands suicide problem is not about the weather.. nor the health sytem.. its not the price of cigarettes.. its not the smoking ban.. its not property prices.. its not the lack of theme parks..

Yeah I agree. I thought that post about the weather, smoking etc was kinda stupid. These are all niggling annoyances but hardly going to make a person suicidal - well they might trigger it if a person is already not doing too well, but in themselves they're not serious problems.

Jesus guys its not rocket science, we live in a country where EVERYTHING revolves around an alcoholic social scene. Alcohol is a depressant. Simple as.

And in the areas of Cork where suicide rates are high there is huge drug consumption.
Plus, loneliness/alienation is a factor I've no doubt.
And yes, Wibbs, the feeling of "if it's so good why isn't my life better" - I think that's spot-on.

seamus

Ireland isn't unique in suicide. It happens in every little corner of the world. So our weather is not a factor, mortages, housing, money and our laws are not major factors.

Tackling suicide is a little like tackling road deaths. You can't win, all you can do is reduce the number. People will always kill themselves.

Social attitude is one of the main reasons why we see a large suicide rate among men in comparison to women. Contrary to popular belief, men do have emotions and feelings and moods. The main difference is that we tend not to express them quite as freely as women. We even encourage men to not express them very freely, though I think men learn this behaviour more through examples from the world around them as opposed to any specific conditioning. Women are more likely to talk their fears out with a parent, doctor or close friend and this step alone makes a massive difference to a person's mental health. Men are more likely to sit on it and if pushed they may go as far as, "Ah I'm just in a bad mood, I'll be grand".
I've never personally known anyone who's suffered from mental health issues, but I understand that the last thing the affected person does it actually recognise the problem themselves. So a lot of what we have to educate ourselves (as a society) to do is recognise the symptoms of depression among our family and friends and try to intervene. The Irish tend to be quite private about their personal and family lives, so doing this is a major shift from the, "Ah leave him alone shure he'll be grand" attitude, or the attitude of "keeping it in the family" which prevents so many people from getting help for their family members.

I do know one person who brought their mother to a psychologist, worried about her mental state and subsequently had a blazing row with his father because the father just wanted to keep the mother at home and "work through it as a family".

As a species, we have a number of social issues creeping up on us that are a symptom of our technological and social advancement - depression, obesity, anti-social behaviour and so forth. Most of these are linked in some way or another or can trace their roots back to our increasingly sedentary lifestyles and decreasingly nourishing foodstuffs.

stovelid

Wagon wrote: »

4 Cigarettes are insanely expensive.

How prescient. I must confess that I never really considered the adverse affect of high cigarette prices on suicide rates?

delop

Maybe because somewhere along the line we decided that being rich = happiness..

Its probably only going to get worse, I really hope there is some sort of awakening and we move our Political/social views far more to the left... Sadly now there are too many vested interests involved to make the change..

Moss

Overheal wrote: »

I have to agree. In part.

I've listened to a lot of people and I'm of the opinion most things can be solved by the individual, but when you go to a doctor or a psychologist about your depression: instead of the counseling that you need which can cost time and money, the solution is to throw meds at the problem. That causes social stigmas in itself, as apparent in my attitude toward meds.

The other thing is: availability. Especially in kids. Sure I had some problems and once or twice I even asked to see a counselor (for all the wrong reasons - blame the parents) so I was turned down by folks on a count of that and a count of money. It probably wouldve done some good to sit a session or two. Thing was I have been to a few when I was much younger (a couple times during the post-divorce and a couple times after I moved in with my father... the times when the parents actually acknowledge something might be wrong but this does not happen in all cases and many suicides come from otherwise normal families) and I always had this very bad habit of not saying anything to the counselor/shrink/quack... after a few sessions they called it quits on me and prescribed ADs - ADs which according to recent studies, were placebos anyway. Thanks for the $30 bottle of placebos guys.

So especially in young kids and teens its hard (a) to get to a counselor (b) get to a counselor you are comfortable enough to talk to and (c) convey your feelings. A lot of that stops kids from saying anything at all. You sometimes have been asked as you were growing up (perhaps) "are there any problems at home?" and while there may be, the answer is usually "no" - either because you think its normal or you think that it will work itself out. Things go unsaid, unsolved long enough and... yeah.

In adults, hard to say. Never been genuinely suicidal myself. I do know however that in college the benefit of a free counselor is great if you can muster up the 30 seconds to write an email asking for an appointment. I tells ya, maybe it was the intervening 10 years since I'd last tried going to one but it was beneficial: I talked. Went to 2x1 hour sessions this year and they probably shaved 6 weeks of moping around off my schedule.

But then even by her [my college counselor's] own admission not as many people are so in touch with themselves that they can really speak honestly and concisely about themselves and how they feel about others. Thats another part of it. Thats another reason why people resort to violence too: I'm convinced violence is just an outlet for expressing things we dont otherwise know how to express [thats my own words]. Outward violence - you attack others. Inward violence - you attack yourself. Its dependant in what you are upset with. The key to dealing with violence is learning how to correctly interpret and express your feelings. With a strong emphasis on interpretation. I failed to do that a couple months ago, so I went to a counselor to help me find out why. within the first hour I had found what I was looking for.

So then I feel it has a lot less to do with throwing meds at the problem then it does about counseling. The problem lies in (a) the social stigmas behind being in touch with your feelings (b) the cost and approachability of counseling (c) the tendancy/triage methods doctors and psychologists take by simply prescribing ADs without addressing the issues. And of course a Lot of education has to be invested in self help: something I taught myself; something most people teach themselves. But not everyone does, and they need to be addressed.

This is utter horsesh*t. I think this is one of the reasons the suicide rate is so high in this country - people get no education about mental illness. Mental illness cannot be solved by the individual - if you can solve it yourself then you are not mentally ill. A person with a serious mental illness cannot control their feelings/thoughts/behaviours - they need professional help. Psychiatrists prescribe medication to correct chemical imbalances in the brain and recommend psychological intervention where it has been shown to be useful e.g. mild and moderate depression. Counsellors can do shag all for serious mental illness. I have suffered from major depressive disorder and I would rather take a good long piss into the wind than talk to a counsellor. There are evidence based psychological interventions for depression and self-harm - this is something very different from generic counselling.

The fact that you (and many others) see some stigma to taking medication is your problem.

Wagon

I take back my point about smokes, I think i was trying to make another point out of it but i forgot what it was now.

What about Seasonal affective disorder though? It rains a lot in winter, i know that can get me down sometimes. I don't want to kill myself but it's just another reason for someone already on the edge.

unreggd

we're always covered up, in dark clothes

Our mood constantly reflects the crappy weather


The things you'd want to get out of life, you cant really get in Ireland

Its always baltic, yet we have Ice Saktin once a year, for 2/3 months

I go to Dubai twice a year as me sis lives there, and they have a year round indoor Skii slope, and 2 ice rinks in her city alone

The Artist

The things you'd want to get out of life, you cant really get in Ireland
i agree with that

gollyitsolly

Some interesting theories here. Is it Greenland or Iceland where they have six months of darkness? How do they cope with the cold and dark.?Are they all manic depressives? I still think its something in the Irish psyche, we are reknowned for our fight or flight attitude.

Wagon

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Some interesting theories here. Is it Greenland or Iceland where they have six months of darkness? How do they cope with the cold and dark.?Are they all manic depressives? I still think its something in the Irish psyche, we are reknowned for our fight or flight attitude.

I've read that Greenland has got an extremely high suicide rate among all people there. I would put it down to two things: S.A.D and there's not really much to do in Greenland is there? Sounds a bit like here, but on a far more extreme scale. The Irish psyche is to moan about things but not really get of our arses and do something about it (hence my first post ) Personally, I'd leg it

beautiation

I don't know really. I'd agree it's partly the feeling of emptiness brought on by the collapse of widespread religious beliefs. And I suppose the more affluent a country gets, the more important it's people feel, and that, combined with increased leisure time to think over things, creates a need to feel some kind of meaning in life. My granda's whole life seems to have been his work, I never saw even a glimmer of any emotion or feeling in him, yet he seemed content by all accounts. Nowadays, noone is happy with just that; keeping their head above water day in day out. We've caught a glimpse of some greater freedom, a hedonism or spirituality, we don't really know what it is exactly. It might even be a lie. But it's forced us to consider ourselves in an extra dimension and the emptiness can be hard to take.
I alos agree that social roles are far too narrow. As a typical repressed Irish twenty year old male I've considered in my more desperate moments having a pop at the ol' transvestitism, not because I'm really into it, but just because it looks so liberating. Sad but true!

gollyitsolly

Some good points there. Dont know bout the tranny thing though:D. As you were saying about youre grandad, he was content with what he had. A lot of that contentment was about tradition too ,I think. People had more defined roles in life and they accepted what was. Nowadays people sometimes dont know where they fit in or what is expected of them.They are supposed to fit a certain image and lifestyle ,and if you dont you are deemed misfit or odd or unsuccessful. Tradition can be a stabilising and comforting thing in society to make one feel confident in their identity. Am I making sense?

metrovelvet

Its so boring there is nothing else to do.

dr_manhattan

I'll take some educated guesses:

1. too much ****ing alcohol and alcohol related problems, for starters: you can ignore the irish dependence on booze, lying, and bad jokes to get through the day all you want... but it won't go away. Over time, it cripples and kills. It hurts young people, too.

2. postcolonial countries are damaged places, rich or not. massive damage done to what liberals would call "the collective psyche". I agree. See 1. OUr self image, cultural identity and language are a crude patchwork left over from a brutal past... a past which we can hardly even commemorate.

3. almost no sense of social or moral direction. You should study to "get stuff". You should work to "get stuff". Even when relaxing, your holiday should be another bit of "stuff" you've "got". Like an economic eating disorder.

4. underlying all three of the above reasons, massive, lazy, selfish and all-encompassing materialism. A lack of a higher path or direction in education, in day-to-day conversation, in any aspect of our lives. Sure, it comes from being abused by a church that made the stazi look polite... but it's still our big, ugly baby.

5. a tendency towards insecurity (see 2.) that leads us to be remorselessly and casually cruel to each other as a substitute for affection: "slagging". I could not write enough on this subject, or on the inevitable "toughen up!" replies it gets. If you doubt me, think of any suicides you know, and what you might have said to them in jest that might have been cruel... what's that? You don't know any suicides?

Why are you reading this then?

6. the combination of being handed utter and complete sexual hangups - while being told that in fact you're not being handed sexual hangups. see 5, 2, and 1. I personally think this is one of the biggest for explaining why teens pretend to be so happy and are actually losing it: all those miniskirts and bad haircuts look like screaming self hatred to me... but hey, that's just me.

7. ignorance: nobody cares about this stuff. Ward after ward full of depressed, addicted, destroyed teenagers and twentysomethings... with no visitors and a bunch of cruel jokes waiting for them when they get out. Schools full of them, taunting each other into hell.... and then, just like their parents, practised looks of shock when kids die. Standard things to say. Lovely lad. Life of the party.

8. ignorance of another kind: our own attitudes and our useless educational system mean that "broadening horizons" means getting a 1 year round the world ticket so you can meet (and slag and shag and cry about) your same peer group in bangkok or wherever, and then be told you've "seen the world". Endlessly repeating the word "travel" is not travel.

My guess is that 8 is the one that would meet with most denial from irish people: "that's not true, irish people go everywhere in the world"

Yeah we do... to hang with other irish people. And slag, and drink, and work to get stuff.

9. Okay, I'll give a concession that the weather doesn't help: but please, don't confuse introversion, discomfort or a dour nature with depression or suicidal thoughts. Many countries have worse weather and less sunlight.

10. Summing up all the above:

We don't know who we are. But we are damn sure that we'll ram whatever halfassed ideas about it down our kids throats as soon as we can, without a second thought. We have serious endemic social problems and always have: drink, sex and family. Watching Sean O Casey plays didn't make this go away, not does watching the Sopranos.

It used to be that life was so hard here that you'd reach the grave without ever questioning it. Now we're rich and fat... and that's exactly what our kids are doing.

And if it really concerns you then VISIT PSYCHIATRIC WARDS and TALK TO THESE CHILDREN. Or if you're a parent then build a real relationship with your kid.

But the last time I suggested that in here I was told that I was making stuff up, and told that the poster "didn't need" to visit a ward to make sweepi9ng statements about irish suicides.

So you know what? Don't bother.

Bury your head in the sand and ask the occasional question about it on the internet.

That should fix everything.

;-)

joseph brand

@ dr_manhattan. Nice post, well written.

I wish there was more to do for young people.
Did you ever see a new playground, full of kids running and playing, parents watching with content smiles. What happened in the playgrounds absence?

Teenagers in gangs, hanging around corners, no hobbies. Probably not up to no good, not intentionally, but idle nonetheless. They should be playing sports or something. A game of Astro, midweek, gets me excited.

Friday/Saturday nights are getting longer amongst my friends, all under 30 yrs. Drink is accompanied by drugs, which help people stay up until 9 in the morning. Their parents must be so proud to see their son trip in the door, the word sh*t or GAY scribbled across the forehead, and stumble up the stairs.

If you do not want to drink in this country, but bring a girl out, there is not much else to do but visit a cinema or restaurant(Consume). Everything is under a roof, due to the sh**ty weather.
http://www.1iverating.com/top/1148/
We are 3rd in the world for cloudiest city.

If this were Family Fortunes, and my family had given me all the above reasons, I would have to say "Les ,I'll go with Hobbies".

AckwelFoley

I would suggest clinical depression as being the cause of the majority of suicide cases in this country.

dewsbury

This thread is amazing!

Has anybody actually research the rate of suicide in Ireland.

It is LOW by international standards.

Far less than countries such as France, Canada, America , New Zealand and most other western countries.

dr_manhattan

"It is LOW by international standards."

Any chance you could back this claim up with the research you see as being absent...?