Drugs are bad

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 1:57pm #1

According to a new study (nicely presented by the BBC here: http://video.google.com/url?docid=-8502535628805276452&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2976&q=bbc%2Bhorizon%2Bdrugs%2Bsite%3Avideo.google.com&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-8502535628805276452&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-8502535628805276452%26q%3Dbbc%2Bhorizon%2Bdrugs%2Bsite%253Avideo.google.com%26total%3D3%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H226DTDwHG52ftIUJWk-lruAmOH2sw) alcohol and hash are more dangerous than solvents and ecstasy.

The "top 20" dangerous drugs:

Cocaine A
Barbiturates (Sedatives) B
Methadone (Opioid) A
Alcohol Legal
Ketamine C
Benzodiazepines (Sedatives) C
Amphetamine (Speed) B
Tobacco legal
Buprenorphine (Opioid) C
Cannabis C
Solvents Legal
4-methylthioamphetamine (amphetamine derivative) A
LSD A
Methylphenidate(Ritalin) B
Anabolic steroids C
Gamma 4-hydroxybutyric acid (depressant, “date-rape drug”) C
Ecstasy A
Amyl Nitrate (nitrite inhalants, “poppers”) Legal
Khat (plant-derived stimulant) Legal

Discuss.

aidan_walsh · 11-03-2008 1:58pm

Has Horizon's scientific credibility actually gone up?

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:00pm

They are just showing the results of a scientific study.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-03-2008 2:01pm

That list looks about right to me from my knowledge of the destructive powers of the respective drugs.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 2:03pm

dublindude wrote: »

According to a new study (nicely presented by the BBC here: http://video.google.com/url?docid=-8502535628805276452&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2976&q=bbc%2Bhorizon%2Bdrugs%2Bsite%3Avideo.google.com&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-8502535628805276452&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-8502535628805276452%26q%3Dbbc%2Bhorizon%2Bdrugs%2Bsite%253Avideo.google.com%26total%3D3%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H226DTDwHG52ftIUJWk-lruAmOH2sw) alcohol and hash are more dangerous than solvents and ecstacy.

The "top 20" dangerous drugs:
Heroin A

Cocaine A

Barbiturates (Sedatives) B

Methadone (Opioid) A

Alcohol Legal

Ketamine C

Benzodiazepines (Sedatives) C

Amphetamine (Speed) B

Tobacco legal

Buprenorphine (Opioid) C

Cannabis C

Solvents Legal

4-methylthioamphetamine (amphetamine derivative) A

LSD A

Methylphenidate(Ritalin) B

Anabolic steroids C

Gamma 4-hydroxybutyric acid (depressant, “date-rape drug”) C

Ecstasy A

Amyl Nitrate (nitrite inhalants, “poppers”) Legal

Khat (plant-derived stimulant) Legal

Discuss.

Ah but there's people on here that know better so that must be wrong!

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:03pm

Why have they got classes , ie A B C
if a lower class can be higher than a higher class in terms of damage.

Tobacco & Cannabis more damaging than Ecstasy & LSD.??

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-03-2008 2:05pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Why have they got classes , ie A B C
if a lower class can be higher than a higher class in terms of damage.

Because the law-makers haven't necessarily got a clue.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-03-2008 2:06pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Tobacco & Cannabis more damaging than Ecstasy & LSD.??

Yea, sounds right to me. E and LSD may be more powerful, but they're not more dangerous when used properly.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:07pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Tobacco & Cannabis more damaging than Ecstasy & LSD.??

Apparently no one (since the 60's at least) has ever died or had any long term effects from LSD, and esctasy does no long term damage.

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:07pm

Sean_K wrote: »

Yea, sounds right to me. E and LSD may be more powerful, but they're not more dangerous when used properly.

I know of families that would disagree totally with that , after losing loved ones to both of those.
Bad Ecstasy & suicide from LSD trips.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:08pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Why have they got classes , ie A B C
if a lower class can be higher than a higher class in terms of damage.

The programme interviewed people who said the classifications are from the 70's and based on bias and perception rather than reality.

Sham Squire · 11-03-2008 2:09pm

Suppose it depends what you mean by dangerous. Spend a week smoking cannabis and then spend a week taking LSD and then try and tell me cannabis is more dangerous.
You might get cancer but at least you could still comprehend your own mortality.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:11pm

The dangerous tag is based on many factors, not just "how many people die per year".

Things like long term affects, how society is affected, etc.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 2:12pm

if you'r stupid enough to spend a week taking acid, you deserve whatever happens to you. If the acid doesn't do it, you'll probably start hop, skipping and jumping across motorways for your next kick.

togster · 11-03-2008 2:14pm

.....

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 11-03-2008 2:14pm

does look about right.
Ectasy should be downgraded from a class A. Horror storys relating to the drug (1 pill and died etc) are because of allergic reaction.That could happen with paracetamol ffs. Or because its a dodgy pill (not ecstasy)
Coke is nasty stuff seen alot of people drastically change from it.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-03-2008 2:16pm

Sham Squire wrote: »

Suppose it depends what you mean by dangerous. Spend a week smoking cannabis and then spend a week taking LSD and then try and tell me cannabis is more dangerous.
You might get cancer but at least you could still comprehend your own mortality.

Well, I would assume that the experiment afforded us humans some amount of common sense and considered things such as common dosage and street purity. They hardly got a thousand rats hooked up on IV and mainlined them full of drugs and saw which one died first.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 2:16pm

Gianluca Angry Telephone wrote: »

does look about right.
Ectasy should be downgraded from a class A. Horror storys relating to the drug (1 pill and died etc) are because of allergic reaction.That could happen with paracetamol ffs. Or because its a dodgy pill (not ecstasy)
Coke is nasty stuff seen alot of people drastically change from it.

or, in some particularly tragic cases, self inflicted drowning.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:17pm

Mordeth wrote: »

or, in some particularly tragic cases, self inflicted drowning.

Drinking too much water?

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:18pm

Gianluca Angry Telephone wrote: »

Ectasy should be downgraded from a class A. Horror storys relating to the drug (1 pill and died etc) are because of allergic reaction.That could happen with paracetamol ffs. Or because its a dodgy pill (not ecstasy)
.

Allergic reaction , pfffft.
It is an illegal , Unregulated drug , that's why some people die.
You could say the same about Cannabis , but consumption & inhaling are 2 different things.

When someone committs suicide accidental or otherwise , after taking LSD & E , do you think it would be feasible to assume they wouldn't have done such athing if not under the influence.

I'm waiting on the alcohol comparison now.....

ScumLord · 11-03-2008 2:21pm

I don't know how they make out yolks are less harmful. The drug causes massive chemical changes in your brain which take a long time to recover from and can have permanent effect on serotonin levels in your brain. Although the real thing is probably allot better than the rat poison that's sold in Ireland these days.

It's no where near as dangerous as the media make out but it shouldn't be considered safe by any means.

Kold · 11-03-2008 2:22pm

What classifies dangerous? What classifies a drug?

This teaches us nothing. GG.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 2:27pm

dublindude wrote: »

Drinking too much water?

yeah, the only thing they year frmo the media is e users drink lots of water so some people have taken one pill, danced and sweated sweet **** all and drank themselves to death.

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 11-03-2008 2:31pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Allergic reaction , pfffft.
It is an illegal , Unregulated drug , that's why some people die.
You could say the same about Cannabis , but consumption & inhaling are 2 different things.

When someone committs suicide accidental or otherwise , after taking LSD & E , do you think it would be feasible to assume they wouldn't have done such athing if not under the influence.

I'm waiting on the alcohol comparison now.....

Your arguement is completely daft. Leave suicide out of this for a minute. Ecstasy and suicide do not go together. Dont be ridiculous.

the_syco · 11-03-2008 2:31pm

Bull, cannabis may be "healthier" than tabacco, but as it has a hotter degree of burning, and held longer in the lungs than tabacco, it's actually worse.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 2:33pm

you don';t have to smoke it though, you can eat it or vapourize it. vapourizing being the best obviously. people know the alternatives, if they choose to smoke it they've no one to blame but themselves.

I could grill some sausages for dinner in a george forman which would drip all the fat out of it, or I could stick them into the frying pan witha HUGE dollop of oil and destroy my arteries. It's up to me how I eat them.

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 2:37pm

hottstuff wrote: »

When someone committs suicide accidental or otherwise , after taking LSD & E , do you think it would be feasible to assume they wouldn't have done such athing if not under the influence.

Well:

A)No one commits suicide while on Ecstasy, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
B)I don't think committing suicide is really that common from LSD use, and bad trips bad enough to make the user commit suicide would have to have been caused by severe negative emotions prior to use. If someone commits suicide on LSD it's also indicative of a lack of a trip-sitter or taking it in an unsafe environment, which is irresponsible.

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:39pm

Gianluca Angry Telephone wrote: »

Your arguement is completely daft. Leave suicide out of this for a minute. Ecstasy and suicide do not go together. Dont be ridiculous.

I was taking about LSD.
And why do you think Ecstasy & suicide don't go together.

How can you tell how anyone will react to it?

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:40pm

hottstuff wrote: »

I was taking about LSD.
And why do you think Ecstasy & suicide don't go together.

How can you tell how anyone will react to it?

Until you provide me with some stats showing a link between LSD and suicide, I'm going to trust the academics who compiled the study.

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 2:41pm

hottstuff wrote: »

I was taking about LSD.
And why do you think Ecstasy & suicide don't go together.

How can you tell how anyone will react to it?

Science.

A drug that causes the release of serotonin in the brain, ie. causes the user to become extremely happy, is not very likely to cause the user to contemplate suicide.

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:43pm

dublindude wrote: »

Until you provide me with some stats showing a link between LSD and suicide, I'm going to trust the academics who compiled the study.

You trust who you like.
I know of a family who lost a teenager who committed suicide after taking LSD.
Do you think the study group ever heard of them?

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:45pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Science.

A drug that causes the release of serotonin in the brain, ie. causes the user to become extremely happy, is not very likely to cause the user to contemplate suicide.

Ok well they are not likely then.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:46pm

Everyone has anecdotal evidence for everything. Academics do not use anecdotal evidence.

ScumLord · 11-03-2008 2:48pm

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Science.

A drug that causes the release of serotonin in the brain, ie. causes the user to become extremely happy, is not very likely to cause the user to contemplate suicide.

It's a different storey on Tuesday and Wednesday though. After a big prolonged binge you do feel like ****. You might not think off linking the fact you've used up all your brains happy chemicals with the depression your in. Pills do **** people up, I've seen it. But out of the 100 or more people I've seen on it there was only one that pills destroyed. But he wasn't exactly in good shape gain in.

I know far more people with alcohol problems than a proper drugs problem.

Kold · 11-03-2008 2:50pm

Ban everything even remotely dangerous or even slightly linked to any sort of danger.

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 11-03-2008 2:51pm

Hottstuff your typifying exactly the teenage argument of the thread title.

You say E kills because its illegal and unregulated,not because of allergic reactions. But let me guess you dont want it legalised and regulated?? Your contradicting yourself.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 2:52pm

cows generate far more greenhouse gases than industry or cars combined, let's make farming illegal!

11-03-2008 2:55pm

Finally an excuse to post this

WindSock · 11-03-2008 2:57pm

hottstuff wrote: »

I know of families that would disagree totally with that , after losing loved ones to both of those.
Bad Ecstasy & suicide from LSD trips.

Bad Ecstasy doesn't mean that all E's are bad. Your friend was unlucky to have gotten one or some or many from a dodgy batch. As for LSD suicide...were they trying to fly? :rolleyes:

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:58pm

Gianluca Angry Telephone wrote: »

Hottstuff your typifying exactly the teenage argument of the thread title.

So blame the teenager and not the drug?

You say E kills because its illegal and unregulated,not because of allergic reactions. But let me guess you dont want it legalised and regulated?? Your contradicting yourself.

It would be better than buying it off dealers then , yes i would.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 2:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Finally an excuse to post this

I always wondered if gays find those kind of threats scary!

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 2:58pm

WindSock wrote: »

As for LSD suicide...were they trying to fly? :rolleyes:

Funny guy.

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 3:00pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a different storey on Tuesday and Wednesday though. After a big prolonged binge you do feel like ****. You might not think off linking the fact you've used up all your brains happy chemicals with the depression your in. Pills do **** people up, I've seen it. But out of the 100 or more people I've seen on it there was only one that pills destroyed. But he wasn't exactly in good shape gain in.

Ah yes, I forgot about the "Tuesday Blues", but then again, prolonged binges on E are stupid("less is more" is very true with E) and taking supplements like L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP can reduce the chances of becoming depressed after taking E.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 3:04pm

Mordeth wrote: »

cows generate far more greenhouse gases than industry or cars combined, let's make farming illegal!

Lets make idiocy illegal.

WindSock · 11-03-2008 3:05pm

There is a fart tax in New Zealand on cows,

WindSock · 11-03-2008 3:07pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Funny guy.

I'm not trying to be funny, nor am I a guy. I was asking genuinely. Or did they kill themselves becuase of depleted seratonin levels and depression?

Degsy · 11-03-2008 3:09pm

WindSock wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny, nor am I a guy. I was asking genuinely. Or did they kill themselves becuase of depleted seratonin levels and depression?

LSD related suicide is a bit of an urban myth..
http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/lsd03.htm

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-03-2008 3:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Finally an excuse to post this

that's classic:D

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 3:15pm

WindSock wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny, nor am I a guy. I was asking genuinely. Or did they kill themselves becuase of depleted seratonin levels and depression?

Oh ok.
The person thought he could climb a pylon and get down supernaturally.

AARRRGH · 11-03-2008 3:17pm

hottstuff wrote: »

Oh ok.
The person thought he could climb a pylon.

That's not quite suicide so... and many drunks have probably done something similar.

hottstuff · 11-03-2008 3:19pm

dublindude wrote: »

That's not quite suicide so... and many drunks have probably done something similar.

Well yes , but intoxification is the cause and so can be put down to an alcohol related death , or are you trying to suggest that sort of person would do it anyway?

Drugs are bad

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