Team IRL v ENG

Riskymove

O'Gara to lead Ireland, Murphy at 15 and Horgan in the centre

15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester) 55
14 - Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 12
13 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 23
12 - Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster) 60
11 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 5
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster) 81 Captain
9 - Eoin Reddan (London Wasps) 9

1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster) 55
2 - Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 21
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster) 83
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 44
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 51
6 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster) 31
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster) 45
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Clontarf/Leinster) 7

Replacements
16 - Bernard Jackman (Clontarf/Leinster) 8
17 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster) 6
18 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) 14
19 - Simon Easterby (Llanelli Scarlets) 64
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster) 81
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster) 7
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster) 3

shoutman

How boring!
Is anyone else of the opinion that one of the worst things that could happen on Saturday is for Ireland to win playing well?

future_plans

The match doesn't really mean a lot now. Give a few players a chance and let them start. Tony Buckley & luke Fitzgerald anyway.

GreenHell

Misread!

I'd drop Horgan to the bench, switch Trimble to 12 and move Fitzgerald to 13.

Wave Esterby goodbye and move Jennings or Quinnie to the bench.

Downtime

Murphy is only 50/50 apparently.

Jay P

Is flannery still injured or what?

Riskymove

Jay P wrote: »

Is flannery still injured or what?

yes

ibh

I'd go for this but ain't going to happen....

15 - Robert Kearney
14- Shane Horgan
13 - Luke Fitzgerald
12 - Andrew Trimble
11 - Tommy Bowe
10 - Ronan O'Gara
9 - Eoin Reddan

1 - Marcus Horan
2 - Rory Best
3 - Tony Buckley
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan
5 - Paul O'Connell
6 - Denis Leamy
7 - David Wallace
8 - Jamie Heaslip

Replacements
16 - Bernard Jackman
17 - John Hayes
18 - Mick O'Driscoll
19 - Shane Jennings
20 - Peter Stringer
21 - Paddy Wallace
22 - Geordan Murphy

pfkf1

This team is very boring, although I still hope we thrash the English, Trimble, O Callaghan, Hayes, and Leamey should not be starting, Easterby, O Driscoll should not be on the bench.

The team should be:

1. Horan
2. Best
3. Buckley
4. Cullen
5. O Connell
6. Jennings
7. D. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Redden
10. O Gara (c)
11. Kearney
12. Horgan
13. P. Wallace
14. FitzGerald
15. Murphy

Bench

16. Jackman
17. O Callaghan
18. Dempsey
19. Leamey
20. Bowe
21. Stringer
22. Hayes

That should be the team, at least if we lost it would give some younger people a chance, and it would be looking to the future.

thebaz

good man Eddie --- never thouight i'd see the day , but in the interest of Irish rugby , i'm doing a Dunphy !

Podge_irl

I would really be of the opinion that that's more or less the best team we can put out (and I would always hope Ireland are trying to win against England, or indeed anyone in the 6N). Fitz in the centre would have been possible, but awfully risky considering his lack of time there and I certainly don't think he's good enough yet. I'd be worried with him on the wing tbh (though excited as well obviously). Selection problems aren't the reason we're doing so badly.

Podge_irl

Actually, I forgot about having a Wallace/Trimble centre pairing. That would have been decent enough, though you'd have an awful lof of defensive worries with that midfield.

Stev_o

Decent enough selection nice to see Murphy playing he ll add that extra play making ability. Worried though that it will all fall to pieces in the midfield with Horgan at centre =(

Punchbowl

Let's not forget that Eddie is playing for his job now, so he was never gonna experiment.. It's win or bust for him.

Although interestingly, he has alluded to IRFU pressure over the team selection, do we believe it?

bleg

can't believe people are still looking for cullen

EdgarAllenPoo

How freaking predictable. Glad to see ROG as captain but aside from that it's a very disappointing and predictable line up. I mean if we included one or two new players it would keep England guessing a bit. As it is now they can just review footage of the last two years matches. Horgan in the centre is a mistake and as usual the bench is an afterthought.

Podge_irl

GDM wrote: »

I mean if we included one or two new players it would keep England guessing a bit. As it is now they can just review footage of the last two years matches.

That's a bit wide of the mark. There are 3 starters and 4 subs with fewer than 10 caps. On top of which we have Bowe and Trimble in the centre as opposed to wing.

I'm not really sure which new players people think he should bring into the team.

can't believe people are still looking for cullen

Why not? He's played very well for Leinster this year and brings an element of leadership to the team that is sorely lacking.

Sherifu

Fairly predictable, dunno if i'd expect much from the centres. It could come down to a battle of the packs. Could suit O'Gara's game.

hoppo254

Boring team for what is a nothing game... So we can beat England for the 4th time running big deal when i comes to this years Six Nations.

Quinlan,Best,Gleeson,Jennings,Buckley all names that should have been in the squad and some of them in the team.

Stev_o

hoppo254 wrote: »

Boring team for what is a nothing game... So we can beat England for the 4th time running big deal when i comes to this years Six Nations.

Quinlan,Best,Gleeson,Jennings,Buckley all names that should have been in the squad and some of them in the team.

Hold up hold up but this is basically the team most people wanted at the start of the 6N bar Horgan! And now everyone's saying its boring Jesus talking about contradicting themselves

pfkf1

If we beat England it will be 5 in a row not 4 and will be 3 in a row in twickenham.

MikeHoncho

That bench must strike fear in the heart of any team.:rolleyes:

All the O'Driscoll bashers should watch how much we miss him around the park on Saturday. England by 10 + is my prediction.

Stev_o

Wilko on bench Danny starting at 10. England to win by 15

Killme00

Paddy Wallace deserves some time on the pitch. TBH I'm not really surpirsed by the team selection. If England were in any way creative in midfield they would destroy us but they arent and as such i expect an Ireland win, led by an immense performcae from OConnell, Heaslip and OGara.

hoppo254

Most people where willing to give the normal 15 a chance after the World cup but its like we are playing with the Brakes on all the time. There is so much potential in the squad its being wasted

redmca

hoppo254 wrote: »

Boring team for what is a nothing game... So we can beat England for the 4th time running big deal when i comes to this years Six Nations.

Actually it will be the 5th time running !!! ........

buck65

hoppo254 wrote: »

Most people where willing to give the normal 15 a chance after the World cup but its like we are playing with the Brakes on all the time. There is so much potential in the squad its being wasted

Sorry there , potential? I disagree.
You speak like this is a new team. The potential has been realised and we are now moving backwards. Hayes (who is retiring) and Horan are very mediocre at this level, Best is decent. Jackman is not international standard keeping Flannery's place warm only.
O Callaghan and O Connell have realised their potential and have only a few years left. Leamy Wallace are well known and are good players. Heaslip has potential as has Reddan. M O Driscoll is a good club player. Easterby like Big Mal is finished.
O Gara well we know super player 2/3 years left - no backup, O Driscoll is now surely finished at 13, Darcy also, Trimble, Walace very average. Horgan so/so possibly best days behind him.
Dempsey finished, Murphy getting on, Kearney lots of potential there same for Fitzgerald.
This squad needs a big overhaul starting with a new manager and captain. But I think this word "potential " is hackneyed and wrong.

NotWormBoy

From here

"Here's a statistic - in the four years between World Cups Ireland are second only to France in terms of the number of Six Nations wins accumulated," he said.

"In fact France have won only two more Six Nations matches than Ireland between 2004 and 2007. The Six Nations is where we set our stall.

"I don't see the Irish Rugby Football Union's policy of wanting to win every Six Nations match changing. In that context we've picked the best possible team to play England.

"And whatever happens at Twickenham Ireland will still be second only to France in Six Nations wins after five championships."

Stuck in the past, Eddie.

bleg

honestly, i'd be surprised if this ireland team fails to win against england. i think it was a big mistake by ashton to put cipriani in there. i'm by no means a supporter of eddie o sullivan, i think the irish selection is terrible, however i think the english selection is far far worse. our back 3 is waaaaaaaaaay better than england's, even though ours is nothing to write home about. potential weakness for us in midfield. we have far superior half backs, and the forwards are more or less equal in my opinion!

shmaido

If he's so happy being number 2 then he should have stayed number 2 to W. Gatland!

Depressing, our golden age of rugby and the best we ever managed second....dont start with that triple crown b*ll*x....

redmca

What changing times in England ..... we have as many Leicester players on our XV as they do !!!

With relatively little at stake, I predict a really good match, tho' EOS may have a different game plan(???) in mind !!

NotWormBoy

Save his job at all costs?

The funny thing is, the only real way he might save his job in the eyes of many fans would be to take risks, stick in some young players and hope they do the business playing a game that mixes and matches between flowing-Leinster and power-Munster.

phog

Jay P wrote: »

Is flannery still injured or what?

Injured or not he couldn't possibly have been considered - what gametime would he have had?

Like it or not we are stuck with the current two hookers.

Podge_irl

hoppo254 wrote: »

Quinlan,Best,Gleeson,Jennings,Buckley all names that should have been in the squad and some of them in the team.

Gleeson and Quinlan are both pretty old, and I'd question whether Gleeson could cut it at international level anymore after his ankle injury. Best was/is pretty out of form, though I would have found room for Jennings - but the fact he can't displace Gleeson at Leinster is worrying.

athtrasna

FFS - does Eddie not know the names of other players or what?? Am gutted for Buckley and Fitzgerald, they deserved a start.

Can't believe Easterby's still on the bench, what's the betting he gets some game time as his "swansong" (should have been the Italian game!).

Speaking of the bench, what's Jackman doing there Do we not have a reserve hooker who understands the rules of the game and throws the ball straight into the lineout??

The only positive thing out of this announcement is ROG's capataincy, about time!!

buck65

Must agree about Jackman, another from the overhyped brigade.

athtrasna

Glad I'm not alone, I've been accused of being a Jackman-basher on here but surely it's not too much to ask that a hooker knows how to play the game.

Comments in the media this weekend about that tackle included "brainless", "reckless" and "senseless" yet he still makes the 22?

DonkeyPokerTour

Stev_o wrote: »

Wilko on bench Danny starting at 10. England to win/loose by at least 15

FYP

I fully believe that Eddie should have thrown caution to the wind and gone all out attack. The packs will cancel each other out. The England backs would struggle against an AIB side so we should have gone with something like:

15 Kearney
14 Horgan
13 Fitzgerald
12 Trimble
11 Bowe
10 Wallace
9 Redden

Why no O'Gara I hear you all cry, well 2 reasons,
1 Wallace has had 0 game time for Ireland this 6 nations and we need some cover for O'Gara if he gets injured during any game. I'm not convinced Wallace is the future but with Sexton not playing for Leinster at the moment Wallace is the best we've got. I've heard arguments for O'Connor but i think he's still a little too fresh, a bit more time with ulster and he could be a replacement for O'Gara.
2. What an impact substitution O'Gara would be to bring into the game with 30min to go!

Forwards I think will cancel each other out pretty much but I'd Line out:

1 Horan
2 Flanery (if not fit Best)
3 Buckley
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Driscoll
6 Leamy
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip

Whether Flannery has had 0 game time or not he can: 1 Throw the ball straight, 2 Pass the ball (show me Best ever doing this, Ever!). If he's not fit (the only reason I can see for him being out of the 22) then Best is a better option than Jackman, although Jackman is better in the loose, the lack of a throw is a big problem.
Buckley over Hayes to gain him more experience and use hayes with 30min to go, great impact substitution.
O'Connell is not at his best and O'Driscoll is playing his best rugby in years, take advantage of this!

16 Best (Jackman if Flannery not fit, Who else is there? Sheehan?)
17 O'Connell
18 Hayes
19 Ferris (Young Man with a lot of potential)
20 Murphy
21 O'Gara
22 Stringer


No huge surprises on the bench with the exception of Ferris, every time I've seen him play he's impressed me and easterby is good only to keep a spot on the bench warm, no use on the field.

The team we have gone with Has the following age profiles:
30+: Horan, Hayes, Wallace, O'Gara
28-29: O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Horgan, Murphy
26-27: Leamy, Reddan
24-25: Best, Heaslip, Bowe
<24: Trimble, Kearney

Only 7 of the 15 are under 27! and with the exception of Best the Tight 5 are all "In need of replacement in the next 3-4years". EOS needs to start blooding new players or we are in serious trouble.

[Jackass]

For my money:

15. Dempsey
14. Kearney
13. Horgan
12. Murphy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O'Gara
9. Reddan

1. Horan
2. Jackman
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Leamy
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

16. Hayes
17. Best
18. O'Driscoll
19. Wallace
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Bowe

Crash

can you please stand up in front of the class and explain murphy at inside centre?

[Jackass]

Simular to a Contepomi role for Argentina at inside, he has a good boot and flair to make ground, fair enough a bit suspect in Defence but I don't rate Bowe or Trimble to put them anywhere in that team, so it's a case of those 7 players being the best backs we have and finding a combination that works...obviously it's stretching with BOD and D'Arcy out, but it's worth experimenting in a nothing match at this stage...If we did it enough we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now!

If it bothers you that much, I could switch him with Kearney, but I'd like to see it attempted.

Sangre

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting Fitzgerald at outside centre against England. He has absolutely no experince at it. He would be completely shown up and it would be a smear on his name if we did (as is putting Horgan in the centre).

I dont think POC deserves his place. Hayes I think is actually past it imo, doesn't have the intensity he once had. Wallace goes missing in a lot of games. My ideal team, as the championship is gone, is to have a decent team with a bench we start using around the 55 mark.

1. Horan (only by lack of other options, useless)
2. Best (big jackman fan but had a bad 6N)
3. Hayes (and told he will only be playing 55 mins at most)
4. DOC
5. Cullem
6. Leamy
7. Jennings
8 Heaslip

9. Reddan (I blame welsh match on gameplan not him)
10. ROG (captain)
11. Bowe
12. P Wallace (outhalf cover if ROG injured)
13 Trimble
14 Horgan (into centre if injury)
15 Kearney

Bench:
Jackman, Buckley, MOD, D Wallace, Stringer, Fitzgerald, Murphy

damnyanks

Didn't Hays want to retire but he was asked to stay on ?

Much like most of the Irish regulars he's done well in the past but really needs a break. His heart isnt in it for Ireland. EOS should just accept it and try and get someone else trained up

Ulstermell0

i think this could actually be a decent match becasue a win for either coach is not enough to keep their jobs both need to demolish the other side to do that.

i think its slightly unfair on ashton that his job is on line because of an average 6N (in which they beat the french) after RWC final, which was way more than expected. (oh what could have been if we were in thier group!)

Stev_o

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

i think this could actually be a decent match becasue a win for either coach is not enough to keep their jobs both need to demolish the other side to do that.

i think its slightly unfair on ashton that his job is on line because of an average 6N (in which they beat the french) after RWC final, which was way more than expected. (oh what could have been if we were in thier group!)

See the problem with Ashton is far more complex then what we have. He only got a 1 year contract therefore he HAD to produce a good 6N or chances were he'd get the axe. BUT on the other hand the media were prepared to roll with cricket score loses if he had of used a team filled with youth. Sadly he went with the old guard and for 40 minutes it seemed like they had struck gold but then got cursed.

Sad because England have so many great looking youths that look promising if given the chance.

juvenal

Murphy is passed fit for Saturday;

Geordan Murphy has been passed fit for Ireland's Six Nations game against England at Twickenham on Saturday.

Full-back Murphy came through a fitness test on his achilles injury on Thursday and will win his 56th cap in the game.

With skipper Brian O'Driscoll injured, Shane Horgan moves inside to join Andrew Trimble at centre with Robert Kearney returning to the left wing.

The pack remains the same while Ronan O'Gara will lead Ireland for the first time while winning his 82nd cap.

NotWormBoy

Rob Kearney, on Scrum.com wrote:

''There is a sense that beating England will right a lot of the wrongs of this year's Six Nations,'' the Leinster winger said.

''Beating England at Twickenham is a formidable challenge and when it's a great achievement when you manage it.

''Winning would mean we've finished the Six Nations on a high and give us a boost before the summer tour.

''On paper there's nothing left to play for, but inside we all know there's a huge amount to play for.''

It wouldn't really right that many wrongs, to be honest. Just keep the wrongs in their job for the next while.

NotWormBoy

I was just thinking today. England beat us by ... 15/20 points. Not too difficult to imagine, though I doubt it'll happen. Scotland beat Italy by 30 points. Again, not likely, but within the realms of possibility. Ireland then come 2nd from bottom right?

Something thats much more likely - Ireland are left level on points with Scotland after they lose to England and Scotland scrape a victory against Italy.

Now thats a sad thought.

Crash

If we fail the least we could do is do it spectacularly, i Miss the wooden spoon goddamnit.

Podge_irl

NotWormBoy wrote: »

I was just thinking today. England beat us by ... 15/20 points. Not too difficult to imagine, though I doubt it'll happen. Scotland beat Italy by 30 points. Again, not likely, but within the realms of possibility. Ireland then come 2nd from bottom right?

And if Wales beat France by 3 and we beat England by 7 we come 2nd (I think).

NotWormBoy

Podge_irl wrote: »

And if Wales beat France by 3 and we beat England by 7 we come 2nd (I think).

Aye, we do.

One could argue that thats just another indication of how poor the quality of the 6N was.