advice please

Whispered

Morning everyone, haven't been around in a while. But now I could do with some advice please. My boyfriend recently lost a friend in a car accident. He (my b/f) is not at all religious, but up until now just didn't think about it enough to decide whether he believes or not. His friend however was very religious, he was fit, never drank or smoked, prayed all the time went to mass all the time etc. Something the priest said at the funeral really upset him.Apparently god was "testing" people through this death.

I respect Athiesm, more so than most religions and would be very happy to accept if my b/f decided to consider himself athiest but what I dont want is for him to turn from "belief" in anger. I want him to be able to make a decision through learning and not through an emotional reaction - which if we're honest - could just as easily have been made in the other direction.

Does anyone have any (constructive) advice on how I can encourage and support him? I would like to request that people don't just jump on the whole "tell him to read the bible, that'll show him it MUST be false" bandwagon. This is not just a crisis of "god or not" he is thinking about death/ meaning of life etc.

I will not push him in the direction of athiesm, nor will I try to drag him along with my ideas of spirituality. Probably a jumbled post (as mine usually are) but any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks x

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

tell him to spend a year in africa or the middle east and be glad the rest of his friends aren't starving, sick or being blown up?

Whispered

Um yes thank you, exactly the kind of advice I needed.

So you think I should say "Cop on, sure aren't you lucky it was only ONE of your friends who was killed".

FFS what is the point in posting thoughtless stuff like that. I came here looking for advice about someone I really care about and you just fob it off like that. If you are not going to give proper advice please dont give it at all.

Pompey Magnus

I would say don't get involved and let his make up his own mind by himself. If he turns away from belief simply because he is angry even though deep down he really believes then I'm sure when the emotions subside he will return to his faith, if he is more serious about his disbelief then he will stick with it, angry or not.

Zombrex

helena.ryan wrote: »

Morning everyone, haven't been around in a while. But now I could do with some advice please. My boyfriend recently lost a friend in a car accident. He (my b/f) is not at all religious, but up until now just didn't think about it enough to decide whether he believes or not. His friend however was very religious, he was fit, never drank or smoked, prayed all the time went to mass all the time etc. Something the priest said at the funeral really upset him.Apparently god was "testing" people through this death.

I respect Athiesm, more so than most religions and would be very happy to accept if my b/f decided to consider himself athiest but what I dont want is for him to turn from "belief" in anger. I want him to be able to make a decision through learning and not through an emotional reaction - which if we're honest - could just as easily have been made in the other direction.

Does anyone have any (constructive) advice on how I can encourage and support him? I would like to request that people don't just jump on the whole "tell him to read the bible, that'll show him it MUST be false" bandwagon. This is not just a crisis of "god or not" he is thinking about death/ meaning of life etc.

I will not push him in the direction of athiesm, nor will I try to drag him along with my ideas of spirituality. Probably a jumbled post (as mine usually are) but any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks x

TBH I wouldn't tell him anything, I would just listen to what he says and discuss what he wants to discuss. Tell him honestly what you believe and let him figure out what he believes himself.

Dades

Mordeth, was that really necessary?

Even if now isn't the best time for him to be making rash decisions, it's not as if your b/f can't change his mind down the line if he wants to. Anger won't make someone an atheist - although it may send someone down a path of enquiry that points that direction.

Everyone here believes what they do through what they've experienced, or learned in their own life - you b/f is no different. What he experiences will shape his beliefs too, and with an adult there's not usually much another individual can do to push them one way or another.

Whispered

Yes, I will discuss what he wants to discuss. For a while I've been thinking about my beliefs and how I wish he would think about things like this. Mostly for the self awareness that looking at your beliefs brings.

Now that he's struggling with it I feel helpless. I would love to be able to tell him that it really doesn't matter either way. That he's a good person, even without that worry of "hell" :rolleyes: He's so angry. Perhaps the problem here isn't him, he's probably dealing with grief in the same way as a lot of people. Maybe the problem is me feeling helpless in not being able to make him feel better.

Thanks for the advice.

Beruthiel

helena.ryan wrote: »

Something the priest said at the funeral really upset him.Apparently god was "testing" people through this death.

I would be so pissed off to hear that tripe waffled off by a priest with regards to someone I cared about.

Are you telling us that he has found god because of this death?

The death of his friend is recent, personally I would leave him be until he comes to terms with that before launching into a discussion on what it is he believes in.

Mordie was harsh in what he said, but to put it nicer, sh!t happens all the time, in Africa and here, it's nothing to do with god or his 'testing', just the crappy, hard luck of the draw.
Your b/f hurts now, he's looking for an answer that makes sense, there isn't one.
Anger is one of the stages of griving.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

probably wasn't neccesary, but I just thought it was a pretty silly question and that it deserved a silly answer that i could be fairly confident the Op wouldn't actually relay to her bf.

I'd apologise, but I'm in a grumpy mood today and I probably wouldn't mean it.

Whispered

Oh you're grumpy?? Maybe you should go to africa or the middle east and really give yourself something to be grumpy about.

It's not a silly question. I am trying to support someone through something which I have no experience in. People here, at some stage have thought the same things he's thinking now. Perhaps on the scheme of things mordeth it is nothing, maybe in your life you deal with real crises. But for me, in my sheltered life, dealing with the death of a friend is a big deal. An upsetting time which I am finding very difficult to cope with, and I really couldn't give a flying f**k if you're grumpy or think my question is silly.
When something tragic happens to you or someone you care about do you shrug your shoulders and say oh could be worse, or is it just when it's not happening to you that it's ok to think like that? As I said, if you dont want to give advice, don't give it.

CerebralCortex

Imho and experience its a mistake to tell others to explore their beliefs especially a man (huge egos don't ya know). Just be brave in what you believe and help you bf through the hard time as you are which happens to be a human who has no belief in a higher power.

Dave!

I would just leave it to him to think about... I doubt one little comment from a priest would be enough of an impetus for him to have him 'turn atheist' out of protest. If this incident makes him think about the nature of life and death, then so be it, just let him work it out for himself and talk about it if he wants. Maybe ask him how he feels about it?

Whispered

Ah the dreaded "how do you feel" makes most men run a mile.


I don't think the comment has made him "turn athiest" but it was a push towards thinking and having an opinion on life and death etc. He never was a believer, but he never was a non believer, he just couldn't be bothered thinking about it.

robindch

helena.ryan wrote: »

He never was a believer, but he never was a non believer, he just couldn't be bothered thinking about it.

Well, not knowing your bf, I couldn't say for sure, but for myself, I certainly wouldn't like my gf to try to support a belief that I had, just for the sake of not wanting to offend me (or not to support me when things are bad). I'd much prefer them to be themselves and to discuss the issue and come to some joint understanding of what happened -- ie, the two of you move forward through discussion and if that goes in one way or another, then that's fine.

Rev Hellfire

I'd be inclined to to leave him to it, most people work their way though these things on their own. Its only an issue if its effecting him unduly so, there's no harm in refecting on you own mortality or that of others in situations like this.

rowlandbrowner

It’s a harsh reality that people die for no other reason than random bad luck, but it is a reality. Some people find this a cold reality to accept and they like to place some divine reason like “it’s a test from God” on tragic events like a person’s death because it provides them with some level of understanding. My advice would be to support your boyfriend in whatever way he wants to deal with his friend’s death, whether he wants to take onboard some religious ideas to help him deal with it or if he takes a more humanistic view and simply remembers the good times he had with his friend and realises that by remembering him he affords his friend a type of after life in his thoughts.

Tim Robbins

helena.ryan wrote: »

Morning everyone, haven't been around in a while. But now I could do with some advice please. My boyfriend recently lost a friend in a car accident. He (my b/f) is not at all religious, but up until now just didn't think about it enough to decide whether he believes or not. His friend however was very religious, he was fit, never drank or smoked, prayed all the time went to mass all the time etc. Something the priest said at the funeral really upset him.Apparently god was "testing" people through this death.

I respect Athiesm, more so than most religions and would be very happy to accept if my b/f decided to consider himself athiest but what I dont want is for him to turn from "belief" in anger. I want him to be able to make a decision through learning and not through an emotional reaction - which if we're honest - could just as easily have been made in the other direction.

Does anyone have any (constructive) advice on how I can encourage and support him? I would like to request that people don't just jump on the whole "tell him to read the bible, that'll show him it MUST be false" bandwagon. This is not just a crisis of "god or not" he is thinking about death/ meaning of life etc.

I will not push him in the direction of athiesm, nor will I try to drag him along with my ideas of spirituality. Probably a jumbled post (as mine usually are) but any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks x

Tricky one. It would seem there are two issues:
1. Help getting over the grief of death.
2. Deciding in what one believes in.

I think these are separate issues which can easily become conflated.
I'd put all the focus on the first one, and ditch the second one unless it has to be resolved.

It's quite natural to be in your boyfriends position to be angry and it is probably part of the grieving process. Life isn't fair and no matter what you believe in death is never easy to deal with.

If you invalidate his anger, it might just make him more angry. So it might just be better, if it's controlled anger rather than outright rage. So rather than judge, it might be a better idea to sympathise and put your energies into emotional support. If the anger doesn't get out of control and the grieving process can run its course, that would be achievement.

Whispered

robindch wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't like my gf to try to support a belief that I had, just for the sake of not wanting to offend me (or not to support me when things are bad).

I would prefer to think of it as supporting him in whatever he wants to believe, as opposed to supporting the belief itself. It wouldn't be to not offend, it would be because I geuninely think that people have the right to believe or not believe whatever they want. So long as he stays the fantastic person I know and love he can disbelieve or believe in anything he wants.

rowlandbrowner wrote: »

Some people find this a cold reality to accept and they like to place some divine reason like “it’s a test from God” on tragic events like a person’s death because it provides them with some level of understanding.

He was saying that he felt like a fraud anyway sitting there, almost brainwashed, and couldn't believe how a priest can look at a grieving widow and tell her that her husbands death was a test. The church has a lot to answer for. The last two ceremonies I have been to or heard about have reconfirmed to me that I am missing nothing.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Tricky one. It would seem there are two issues:
1. Help getting over the grief of death.
2. Deciding in what one believes in.

I think these are separate issues which can easily become conflated.
I'd put all the focus on the first one, and ditch the second one unless it has to be resolved.

It's quite natural to be in your boyfriends position to be angry and it is probably part of the grieving process. Life isn't fair and no matter what you believe in death is never easy to deal with.

If you invalidate his anger, it might just make him more angry. So it might just be better, if it's controlled anger rather than outright rage. So rather than judge, it might be a better idea to sympathise and put your energies into emotional support. If the anger doesn't get out of control and the grieving process can run its course, that would be achievement.

Yes that is very true and it might be easier to deal with for him if he can differentiate between the two. His anger is very controlled, he's always very controlled actually (keeps me grounded). Maybe it's just a "blame" figure he's looking for in the priest. He's worried about future things like other funerals, getting married etc. To be honest I think he is athiest (or agnostic) and is more struggling with how to deal with that then the question of belief or no belief. This death just brought it to the forefront of his mind.

stereoroid

I'm firmly of the opinion that a time of distress, like illness or the death of a friend, is not the time to be making life-or-death decisions about anything. I think that these questions of atheism and religion don't have to be all serious, and that it's possible to have fun with them and this life - so this is the wrong time for your b/f to be dealing with such matters, IMHO. I agree with other posters that the best thing for you to do is to be supportive and respectful of whatever your b/f is feeling. Of course, if he asks for your opinion...

Scofflaw

I agree with Tim here - I would just suggest supporting him through the grief. Most of the anger is probably just the usual helplessness in the face of death, I think. I suspect the anger is helping him get through it, but I wouldn't encourage it or try and do anything with it, really - it's just anger that needed a focus.

If he changes his 'religious' outlook as a result of this, that's something that's likely to happen in the quiet of his own head, and which your best choice would probably just be to accept as it happens. If he feels the need to talk about it, I don't think you're the kind of person to either get aggravated by his beliefs or ram your own down his throat, so I doubt you need to worry on that score.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

CelticChimp

Helena,

As many have suggested, don't offer too much. Allow him to come to terms with it himself. Just be there for him. If he directly asks you about God/Faith etc, go ahead and tell him what you believe. If he does not ask, don't bring it up, he might actually look badly on you if he thinks you are trying to use his grief as a means to conversion. I genuinely don't think you are doing that but he is likely very emotional right now and probably wants to lash out. I personally would be furious if a priest said anything of that sort at a funeral of someone I cared about. Things like that are downright sick. I am of course an Atheist. I don't want to turn this into a religious debate as I'm sure you don't. I recommend you just be with him, comfort him, listen to him. When his grief lessens, he will come to his own decision about religion.


On an aside,
I think your view as a believer is one to be encouraged. If all people of faith though the way you do, there would be a lot less angry atheists. You willingness to accept him for who he is and not judge him by your beliefs is to be commended. I think he is lucky to have you in his time of need.

Best wishes.

Whispered

Thanks everyone. He has stopped talking about it. I don't know if he has stopped thinking about it or if he's just working through it on his own. I will leave it for a while and see how he gets on.

As of Friday he was not my boyfriend, he is now my fiance yey. So now - how to plan a wedding ceremony when one is a non-believer, one believes in something but is anti religion, one set of parents is very religious and the other set couldn't care less. :D Should be fun lol.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Wreck

Congrats, good luck with the wedding, sounds like you'll need it

Dades

Congrats indeed!

helena.ryan wrote: »

So now - how to plan a wedding ceremony when one is a non-believer, one believes in something but is anti religion, one set of parents is very religious and the other set couldn't care less.

I think the question you need to ask here is: who's paying for it?

robindch

Ha, heartiest best wishes from me too!

helena.ryan wrote: »

So now - how to plan a wedding ceremony when one is a non-believer, one believes in something but is anti religion, one set of parents is very religious and the other set couldn't care less

Hold the ceremony outside in some pleasant piece of sunny nature, and have all the religious johnnies inside a church at the end of a radio link?

Dave!

Congrats indeed helena! All the best

Dr Galen

helena.ryan wrote: »

Thanks everyone. He has stopped talking about it. I don't know if he has stopped thinking about it or if he's just working through it on his own. I will leave it for a while and see how he gets on.

As of Friday he was not my boyfriend, he is now my fiance yey. So now - how to plan a wedding ceremony when one is a non-believer, one believes in something but is anti religion, one set of parents is very religious and the other set couldn't care less. :D Should be fun lol.

Thanks again for all the advice.

am in similar situation wedding wise. its all about compromise helena. and a bit of tongue biting on my part. also a pretty cool priest friend of the family who has been very understanding


edit : Congrats by the way!!! :pac:

CelticChimp

Congratz!!!

Scofflaw

Congratulations!

most cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Congrats from me too:)

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

Dades

Xhristy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Like she needs us lot heckling the religious bits if she goes for a church gig!

Whispered

Dades wrote: »

Like she needs us lot heckling the religious bits if she goes for a church gig!

I would expect you all to kneel at the kneeling parts.