Drivers who cruise under the limit

stepbar

I'm sorry if this has been done to death but..... I was coming up from home this evening. Took the N3 from Cavan. The amount of people I met crusing along at 80kmh (on a 100kmh stretch of road) was ridiculus. Talk about undue consideration for other drivers on the road :rolleyes:

Before I get flamed, if it was me I'd pull over to the left hand side of the road and give the person enough space to pass safely. Some drivers like to drive to the limit including me. In fact when you have so many cars behind a slower car, with eager drivers looking to get by, I think it can cause more accidents. Some brave lad might look to pass 3 / 4 car out :eek: Any thoughts?

coolbeans

That makes perfect sense to me. As long as there is adequate room on the hard shoulder people should pull in to let others by. It's called courtesy.:eek:

Atomic Pineapple

have to agree, too late and tired to add to the discussion though

astrofool

It's come up here before, however, the OP is not talking about using the hard shoulder, but rather the left hand lane, preventing people from undertaking.

stepbar

I'm talking about both TBH. I came down the M4 on Sat. Same sh1t. Granted it was the minority but its even more dangerous on the motorway.

what_car

stepbar wrote: »

I'm sorry if this has been done to death but..... I was coming up from home this evening. Took the N3 from Cavan. The amount of people I met crusing along at 80kmh (on a 100kmh stretch of road) was ridiculus. Talk about undue consideration for other drivers on the road :rolleyes:

Before I get flamed, if it was me I'd pull over to the left hand side of the road and give the person enough space to pass safely. Some drivers like to drive to the limit including me. In fact when you have so many cars behind a slower car, with eager drivers looking to get by, I think it can cause more accidents. Some brave lad might look to pass 3 / 4 car out :eek: Any thoughts?

100kph is the max speed. they dont have to do that speed!!

80kph in a 100kph zone is "still making good progress"

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

ninty9er

what_car wrote: »

80kph in a 100kph zone .......

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

That's the fu<king problem!!

stepbar

what_car wrote: »

100kph is the max speed. they dont have to do that speed!!

80kph in a 100kph zone is "still making good progress"

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

Nobody is disputing that..... but the vast majority will drive up to the limit. IMO it's taking the p1ss when you're on a good road and said driver is not.

D_murph

stepbar wrote: »

I'm sorry if this has been done to death but..... I was coming up from home this evening. Took the N3 from Cavan. The amount of people I met crusing along at 80kmh (on a 100kmh stretch of road) was ridiculus. Talk about undue consideration for other drivers on the road :rolleyes:

Before I get flamed, if it was me I'd pull over to the left hand side of the road and give the person enough space to pass safely. Some drivers like to drive to the limit including me. In fact when you have so many cars behind a slower car, with eager drivers looking to get by, I think it can cause more accidents. Some brave lad might look to pass 3 / 4 car out :eek: Any thoughts?

i agree totally. if someone wants to pass me(the few times that happens ) i always let them out. its not hard to do and i would think its a safer thing than getting them pissed off and possibly doing something stupid out of frustration.

if only the blithering eejits that toodle along at 80kmh (if even) in a 100, out as far to the centre lines as possible and last week as a case in point, with the right indicator on for 3 miles to top it off :rolleyes: would do this, it would surely reduce some accidents.

clearly they have no sense of awareness as to what is going on around them and are a danger to themselves and others IMO

coolbeans

what_car wrote: »

100kph is the max speed. they dont have to do that speed!!

80kph in a 100kph zone is "still making good progress"

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

And I'm well within my rights to do 100kph. It's back to courtesy. Pull over, let 'em off and stress levels are lower for everyone. It's really :rolleyes:simple.

ninty9er

coolbeans wrote: »

And I'm well within my rights to do 100kph. It's back to courtesy. Pull over, let 'em off and stress levels are lower for everyone. It's really :rolleyes:simple.

+1

But would you trust those people to be capable of manouvering left and then back into the flow of traffic if they can't travel at the limit??

Witcher

i in a car on the m50 this weekend and the car in front was doing 30, i

swear to god, no sh1t, 30! :eek: crawling along! coudnt believe it



:cool::cool::cool:

stepbar

I wouldn't mind but I drive a 1.2 clio....

Niall1234

Got stuck a few years ago behind a very nervous female learner on the Glanmire bypass.

Problem was that one side of the bypass was being resurfaced so only one side was open with bollards seperating the two lanes.

She must have been doing 50 kph max on it. The line of traffic behind was incredible. Whatever the qualified driver was thinking of bringing her down there at 50 kph. Or for the matter, bringing her onto a dual carriageway doing 50 kph.

HJL

stepbar wrote: »

I'm sorry if this has been done to death but..... I was coming up from home this evening. Took the N3 from Cavan. The amount of people I met crusing along at 80kmh (on a 100kmh stretch of road) was ridiculus.
Before I get flamed, if it was me I'd pull over to the left hand side of the road and give the person enough space to pass safely.

Wasnt it a rainy, windy dark night? It was here and i can understand people not wanting to drive their normal speed and easing up a few mph's.

And if you are talking about driving into the hard shoulder to let people by then i can also understand people not wanting to do that either, they usually have potholes the size of baths and would distroy a car.

cyclopath2001

coolbeans wrote: »

That makes perfect sense to me. As long as there is adequate room on the hard shoulder people should pull in to let others by. It's called courtesy.:eek:

Making other people pull over is called 'bullying'. And, let's remember that driving along on the hard shoulder is both dangerous and illegal.

Niall1234

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Making other people pull over is called 'bullying'. And, let's remember that driving along on the hard shoulder is both dangerous and illegal.

Only illegal on Motorways as far as I know.

pow wow

ninty9er wrote: »

+1

But would you trust those people to be capable of manouvering left and then back into the flow of traffic if they can't travel at the limit??

That's a ridiculous statement. I can't stand people who poodle along hogging the centre of the road either but I don't think they're incapable of driving properly. For whatever reason they just drive slow, usually when I am behind them trying to get home asap :rolleyes:

Ferris

what_car wrote: »

100kph is the max speed. they dont have to do that speed!!

80kph in a 100kph zone is "still making good progress"

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

Attitudes like that explain why it takes so long to get anywhere in this country.

Niall1234

what_car wrote: »

100kph is the max speed. they dont have to do that speed!!

80kph in a 100kph zone is "still making good progress"

they are well within their rights to drive at said speed..

Would you considering 24kph in a 30kph good progress ?

80kph on roads clearly capable of 100kph is scandalous.

milltown

blay1 wrote: »

i in a car on the m50 this weekend and the car in front was doing 30, i

swear to god, no sh1t, 30! :eek: crawling along! coudnt believe it



:cool::cool::cool:

Was that 30Mph or Kmph?
If it's Kms then rant away. If it's mph then it's not such a sensational amount below the limit on long stretches of the M50 these days.

My €0.02: While it can be annoying, it should be remembered that the numbers on the signs are Limits, not Targets. Leave a little earlier and don't get so wound up about it and you'll reduce your own risk of having an accident and won't need anyone else to blame.

jayok

Ferris wrote: »

Attitudes like that explain why it takes so long to get anywhere in this country.

Right, here we go. I was travelling up from Waterford to Dublin this weekend and for the most of it I would do about 90 km/hr, not the 100 km/hr limit, even when the road was clear ahead - and I have reasons for it. And as for pulling over...

1. The bulk of the road covered isn't really suitable for 100km/hr and that speed is just dangerous (Thomastown anyone?) with the bends
2. The amount of spanners stuck to my rear bumper on said road with no obvious overtaking advantage (i.e. I was the twelfth car in a stream of same speed traffic). If I get this I tend to slow down - much safer
3. Pull-over in to the hard shoulder? No. Point-blank no. This is not about stubborness - its about safety. The hard-shoulder is not a safe place to be driving. This road-space is typically used by people on junctions to creep out to get better visibility of the road ahead. They are not expecting you to come trundling along so close to them.
4. Pull-over in to the hard shoulder? No - again. In a stream of traffic people won't let you back-in!
5. Pull-over in to the hard shoulder? No - again. If you cannot safely overtake the vehicle in front in the correct road position, then fuppin don't do it!! I am sick of seeing people forcing an overtake just to get one car ahead in a stream of traffic.

In all of the above, I keep a defensive road position to the left of my road-side but certainly not on the hard-shoulder or white line.

Why all the safety concerns? People keep dying on our roads - fact. Inappropriate speed and behaviour is a massive contribution. This weekend, there was 5 souls on-board the car (3 of which under the age of 3). I am not going to compromise my safety for anyone.

Get over it people.

kodute

jayok wrote: »

Why all the safety concerns? People keep dying on our roads - fact. In appropriate speed and behaviour is a massive contribution. This weekend, there was 5 souls on-board the car (3 of which under the age of 3). I am not going to compromise my safety for anyone.

Get over it people.

+1

The road signs are not only for you, there are other people on the road that have as much right to be there as you. Alot of them are idiots. There is nothing you can do about it except enjoy the ride.

Atomic Pineapple

well i dont think the op is talking about being stuck in a line of traffic thats totally different so it is, when theres an insurmountable string of traffic i just sit back and relax because its all you can do.

Automan

I had posted this in the Introduction of Speed Cameras discussion a few days ago but it seems relevant her also.

I was driving over in England yesterday (300 odd miles), while on the motorway I came across about 7 places which had the tell tale sign of fixed speed cameras (white lines in parallel on the road) but not one speed camera to be seen (were removed), the only place I seen a fixed speed camera was in a little village, (I think it was outside a school not sure of that).

As I was driving on the motorways I was at the limit while many cars flew by me, I dont see a problem with this as these roads were super and every one stayed in the right lanes there was no lane hoggers, nearly every one stayed in the left lane even though there was 3 lanes and only used the middle and outside lanes for overtaking, they defiantly know how to drive over there.

Also on the single lane roads people over took each other while the person being overtaken most of the time would move in a little to help the overtaking car, there was no beeping of the horn, flashing of the lights, damming you to hell for doing that evil thing, overtaking (unlike in Ireland were all the above happen).
There was also a lot of visual police on the roads either waiting at some junctions or driving in the traffic.
This really did show me how backwards this country is with regards to driving education/attitude, roads, policing.
And the sad thing is while they seem to be taking the cameras out (motorways) we seem to be putting them in.

Also on the single lane roads every few miles there was laybys for people to stop and have a snooze, relax or just pull in and let people by.

In general the motorist in England seem to be more concerned making progress as apposed to holding everyone up, Id say the fact that they are much better trained and educated driving wise has a lot to do with this.

Ferris

Automan wrote: »

In general the motorist in England seem to be more concerned making progress as apposed to holding everyone up, Id say the fact that they are much better trained and educated driving wise has a lot to do with this.

+1

Well said, thats exactly how they are. Irish people drive to teach other people lessons, have a race, have a fight, beep, flash lights etc. The rest of europe are just concerned with getting there safely and in a reasonable amount of time.

andrewh5

Automan you have hit the nail on the head! British drivers have it drummed into them that they should stay in the left lanes unless overtaking. Here people seem to think that they can drive in any damn lane they want! Yesterday I was driving south on the M50 from Sandyford to Wicklow. A woman was sat in the outside lane at 100KPH when the inside lane was totally clear and the limit was 120KPH. Perfect road conditions & visibility. There is (and never will be) no excuse for her driving behaviour. She should have been in the left lane. Several drivers had to undertake in order to make progress - illegal and dangerous. What else were they to do? Stay behind her on a perfectly clear motorway because she was too damn selfish to move into the left lane?

pburns

All the anti-speed rhetoric spouted by press, government etc. makes some people think they are part of the moral majority and are fully within their rights to drive WELL below the legal limit (even if 90% of road users want to bring it RIGHT UP to the speed allowed). I had a blazing row with someone who bragged about 'boxing in' a 'speeding' driver in a Bimmer on the Naas road:rolleyes:...

Also, I can live with being held up by an elderly person or an obviously nervous driver. But when I see a youngish guy (in 30s or even 40s) driving unnaturally slow and holding me up it REALLY annoys me. And when I get stuck behind a horsebox and finally find a place to overtake safely, only to discover from my rear-view mirror that the reason they are driving at 28mph is because they are having a deep conversation on their mobile (glued to their ear) it REALLY, REALLY P155E5 ME OFF!!!!

milltown

pburns wrote: »

All the anti-speed rhetoric spouted by press, government etc. makes some people think they are part of the moral majority and are fully within their rights to drive WELL below the legal limit (even if 90% of road users want to bring it RIGHT UP to the speed allowed). I had a blazing row with someone who bragged about 'boxing in' a 'speeding' driver in a Bimmer on the Naas road:rolleyes:...

Also, I can live with being held up by an elderly person or an obviously nervous driver. But when I see a youngish guy (in 30s or even 40s) driving unnaturally slow and holding me up it REALLY annoys me. And when I get stuck behind a horsebox and finally find a place to overtake safely, only to discover from my rear-view mirror that the reason they are driving at 28mph is because they are having a deep conversation on their mobile (glued to their ear) it REALLY, REALLY P155E5 ME OFF!!!!

Deep breaths....Now relax.
Good lad.

You sound like an accident or a heart attack waiting to happen.

andrewh5

Actually, Milltown, the eejit with a phone glued to their ear is the accident looking for a place to happen - and driving illlegally too.

flogen

pburns wrote: »

All the anti-speed rhetoric spouted by press, government etc. makes some people think they are part of the moral majority and are fully within their rights to drive WELL below the legal limit (even if 90% of road users want to bring it RIGHT UP to the speed allowed).

It's one thing is someone is driving dangerously slow, but what 90% of road users want shouldn't be of concern to the single driver as long as they're following the rules of the road.

It strikes me that some people in this thread think hitting the speed limit is their right as a driver and anyone stopping them from achieving this should get out of their way no matter what.

As for people in Ireland not using the right-hand lane on a Motorway as they should; the fact that it's referred to by most people as the fast lane rather than the overtaking lane says it all really.

voxpop

This issue as i see it is that alot of drivers tend to be blinkered. They are only concerned with themselves and dont have any consideration what so ever for other road users.
If you are driving along and someone behind obviously wants to overtake - let them overtake ffs, move in a little, slow a little to give a gap in front (in a line of traffic), whatever. There really seems to be a mindset of "Im driving here and I dont care what anyone thinks, I have a right to be here".
A little bit of courtesy for other road users would allow slower drivers to drive at whatever speed they like while giving faster drivers the opportunity to overtake.

L1011

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Making other people pull over is called 'bullying'. And, let's remember that driving along on the hard shoulder is both dangerous and illegal.

The ROTR is hideously vague on this issue, telling you you can "pull over" but not actually even implying if you need to stop or can keep driving on...

andrewh5

flogen wrote: »

It strikes me that some people in this thread think hitting the speed limit is their right as a driver and anyone stopping them from achieving this should get out of their way no matter what.

If you drive at 80KPH on a dual carriageway with a speed of 100KPH when it is safe to drive at the higher speed whilst taking your test you will be failed (quite rightly) for 'failing to make progress'. If people don't feel safe driving at the recommended maximum when it is clearly safe to do so they should consider whether or not they should be driving IMHO.

prospect

This conversation came up before about 12months ago.

The amount of people who said they wouldn't move over was phenomonal, and their only reason was because they were not obliged too .......

It is perfectly legal to move into the hard shoulder to let someone pass (except motorways). Infact in one section of the old ROTR it encouraged drivers to do this.

And on 90% of the roads I have driven, it is perfectly safe to do so. If it isn't safe on a particular road, then that is fine.

So the legality and safety arguments are invalid. Not allowing a faster vehicle to pass is quite simply an act of ignorance and selfishness.

Fey!

flogen wrote: »

It strikes me that some people in this thread think hitting the speed limit is their right as a driver and anyone stopping them from achieving this should get out of their way no matter what.

And what about those who believe t's their divine right to impede everyone elses progress?

If you are only capable of driving at 50kph on a 100kph stretch of road, then let others pass you out. Staying in the middle of the road and making it dangerous for them to overtake is simply ignorance.

Likewise, it someone in front of you isn't going as fast as you'd like, then don't sit on their bumper.As for the usual "it's a limit, not a target" brigade you spout the same line over and over, as well as the "speed is the cause of most deaths" faction, here are a couple of points.

1) It may be a limit, but many people are capable of driving at the limit, and it is NOT your place to enforce your own perceptions of the law.

2) Speed is a factor in a lot of accidents, but more often than not so are stupidity and ineptitude. However, it wouldn't be PC to target idiots.

If I want to drive 125 miles (200km) on a road with a 100kph limit, then I expect that I should be able to finish my journey in 2 hours. However, if some ignoramous or incompetent driver in front of me is only doing 60kph (which happens on roads all over the country), then my 2 hour journey becomes 3:20 hours instead. And then there will be the line of people behind me that they're slowing up as well.

In summation, both sides are partially right and both sides are partially wrong, but nobody will ever find a solution to the problem because each side has their heads wedged so far up their own backsides that they'll only ever see black, not white or even grey.

--amadeus--

Once you pass your test no-one even looks at the ROTR. And frankly you shouldn't need them in this instance.

The problem is not really one of safety, no matter how others want to paint it. Nor is the issue one of road condition, or the appropriateness of speed limits or even about enforcement or teh visability of the Guards.

There are -as I see it - two related issues here.

First is simple awareness. We have all been stuck behind Auntie Mary on her way to Mass at a steady 25kph or Oul' Paddy as he poottles into town for his messages more times than I can count. You recognize them straight away - death grip on teh wheel, myopic peering over teh dash, glacial reactions and unpredictability. It's not even about age - timid drivers come in all ages and sizes and they simply are not aware of thier surroundings or other roads users. How can they move over for you if they don't even know you are there?

Second - and far more common - is simply courtesy. I am sick of being stuck behind tractors or 4*4's towing trailers and horse boxes on the main arterial routes of this country. They dawdle along at minimum speed, carefully hugging the centre line and with literally dozens of cars strung out behind them. How difficult would it really be for them to move over and let the traffic through? If there are other cars there and they look like they want past why not facilitate that? If there is a climbing lane why not pull into it? If there is space in teh inside lane why not use it? It won't slow you down in your journey and it reduces stress all round - you don't have angry tailgaters and they don't risk killing themselves trying to pass you when it's not safe.

But for some unknown reason some people on the roads think that they are unmarked speed guardians. They think that they have an obligation to determine the safe speed and by God they will make everyone stick to it.

Turbodreams

andrewh5 wrote: »

Automan you have hit the nail on the head! British drivers have it drummed into them that they should stay in the left lanes unless overtaking. Here people seem to think that they can drive in any damn lane they want! Yesterday I was driving south on the M50 from Sandyford to Wicklow. A woman was sat in the outside lane at 100KPH when the inside lane was totally clear and the limit was 120KPH. Perfect road conditions & visibility. There is (and never will be) no excuse for her driving behaviour. She should have been in the left lane. Several drivers had to undertake in order to make progress - illegal and dangerous. What else were they to do? Stay behind her on a perfectly clear motorway because she was too damn selfish to move into the left lane?

This stretch of road i think is one of the worst for people sitting in the overtaking lane. its just beyond me why people seem to feel more comfortable or safer commuting in the overtaking lane whilst the inside lane is clear

And just a tip for people who might have a short temper like myself, there is no point tailgating people on national roads( or any road) because if they are one of the few who actually look in their mirrors, they will most like become more nervous and make a mistake! what i try to do is imagine the slow person infront being your mother/ relation etc. it usually helps me.
you have to remember that unfortunately, driving is not a natural comfortable process for some people.

andrewh5

Turbodreams wrote: »

you have to remember that unfortunately, driving is not a natural comfortable process for some people.

Then IMHO they should not be driving.

Turbodreams

andrewh5 wrote: »

Then IMHO they should not be driving.

i agree 100%. but we all know they do. i was hit by an old lady a few years back. there was damage to all the panels on the drivers side of my car so i called the Guards. after exchanging details etc, the guard said she could go on her way. she then reversed into a pillar and drove into the side of a parked car. needless to say, the guard drove her home!

ballooba

I see the main problem being two things:
1) The lack of safe places to overtake. This is an engineering problem.
2) Lack of discipline in keeping left and overtaking right.

I don't think drivers should have to drive on the hard shoulder. It's unsafe and that is not what it is there for.

astrofool

People who says "It's a limit, not a target", if you go into the test with that attitude, you'll fail for not making progress. You should be driving at the limit, conditions permitting, and if you can't, then you shouldn't be driving (with exceptions for vehicles unable to travel at the limit, e.g. HGV's, or towing a trailer).

faceman

prospect wrote: »

It is perfectly legal to move into the hard shoulder to let someone pass (except motorways). Infact in one section of the old ROTR it encouraged drivers to do this.

Yeah i was going to post that too. Although it has the usual caveat of "as long as its safe to do so" etc

flogen wrote: »

As for people in Ireland not using the right-hand lane on a Motorway as they should; the fact that it's referred to by most people as the fast lane rather than the overtaking lane says it all really.

to make matters worse, im sure the regular m50 users noticed it a few weeks ago when one of the traffic warning signs (southbound i think) asked drivers to use the "fast lane" if not getting off at N7 of ballymount or something.

coolbeans

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Making other people pull over is called 'bullying'. And, let's remember that driving along on the hard shoulder is both dangerous and illegal.

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. The rules of the road state quite clearly that a driver may legally pull onto the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to pass. Look it up. You are of course required to move back ASAP after aforementioned faster traffic has passed as the hard shoulder is not to be treated as a lane in its own right.
I agree that using the hard shoulder can be dangerous at times due to the quality of the roads however there are many, many roads where it's anything but dangerous to pull onto the hard shoulder.
Bullying? You must be easily intimidated. It's unreasonable not to allow others to travel at the legal maximum speed just because you choose not to. I don't tailgate but damn those of you who make a point of travelling under the speed limit and impeding others progress on marble smooth roads where the hard shoulder is as wide as the road itself. Just let them by when it's safe to do so.

OldmanMondeo

I drove from home to work this morning, 40 mile trip, both "R" roads and Motorway. I stuck as near to the speed limit as I could, maybe 5kph over. I did not drive on the hard shoulder and never will, to many people killed in hard shoulders while walking. I was over taken by loads, well in excess of the speed limit. Overtaken on bends, on double white lines, hatched areas, you name it, any where that you should not overtake it happens.

These are the people who should not eb on the road. People driving slowly can be passed safetly and I would rarther meet these on the road than someone in a rush.

jaggiebunnet

coolbeans wrote: »

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. The rules of the road state quite clearly that a driver may legally pull onto the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to pass. Look it up.

Where does it say that?

Does the number of people killed by cars ploughing into the back of their cars while they are parked on the hard shoulder because it is for emergencies and stopping only - not make it obvious that it is dangerous driving? If you can prove that it is legal it still doesn't make it right, common sense tells you it is dangerous.

As a driver who comes from the UK and sat his licence in the UK I think the problem we have over here is that

a. The roads are not good enough.

b. To be honest I had never seen hard shoulders on secondary roads like you see them over here until I came here - this is probably because of the lack of motorways but if they turned them into proper lanes with a real hard shoulder every now and again then it would help and reduce the need for motorways throughout the country.

c. Inconsiderate drivers - whether it is the silly woman who has no idea of what is going on around her or the muppet speeder who thinks he has to be 1 mm away from your bumper - they all need some decent training and proper enforcement of the law.

d. In addition to c are the guys who just don't know how to drive - you are always going to get them unfortunately I think the number appears to be aggravated in this country due to the roads.

flogen

andrewh5 wrote: »

If you drive at 80KPH on a dual carriageway with a speed of 100KPH when it is safe to drive at the higher speed whilst taking your test you will be failed (quite rightly) for 'failing to make progress'.

I find that hard to believe - I'm happy to be corrected but I do.

80KPH is hardly slow or dangerously slow, even if it isn't the fastest possible speed you can travel at.

Fey! wrote: »

And what about those who believe t's their divine right to impede everyone elses progress?

They're idiots too - my blood boils when I see people who purposely try to impede other drivers, even ones that are going over the limit. If I'm at the limit and someone behind me wants to overtake me because I'm not going fast enough I won't stop them - I won't make it any easier for them, though.

If you are only capable of driving at 50kph on a 100kph stretch of road, then let others pass you out. Staying in the middle of the road and making it dangerous for them to overtake is simply ignorance.

Well the figure I'm basing what I say on is 80 on a 100kph stretch; and I agree with you on the second point.

In summation, both sides are partially right and both sides are partially wrong, but nobody will ever find a solution to the problem because each side has their heads wedged so far up their own backsides that they'll only ever see black, not white or even grey.

True - I think the problem is that everyone is just looking out for themselves. The guy driving too slow doesn't give a shít that he's holding people up and the guy who wants to drive fast doesn't give a shít that the guy in front wants to drive at a speed below the maximum, as is his right to do so.

What you end up with is a few slow people impeding those trying to drive at a normal speed and a few speeders trying to bully those trying to drive at a normal speed.

coolbeans

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

Where does it say that?

Does the number of people killed by cars ploughing into the back of their cars while they are parked on the hard shoulder because it is for emergencies and stopping only - not make it obvious that it is dangerous driving? If you can prove that it is legal it still doesn't make it right, common sense tells you it is dangerous.

As a driver who comes from the UK and sat his licence in the UK I think the problem we have over here is that

a. The roads are not good enough.

b. To be honest I had never seen hard shoulders on secondary roads like you see them over here until I came here - this is probably because of the lack of motorways but if they turned them into proper lanes with a real hard shoulder every now and again then it would help and reduce the need for motorways throughout the country.

c. Inconsiderate drivers - whether it is the silly woman who has no idea of what is going on around her or the muppet speeder who thinks he has to be 1 mm away from your bumper - they all need some decent training and proper enforcement of the law.

d. In addition to c are the guys who just don't know how to drive - you are always going to get them unfortunately I think the number appears to be aggravated in this country due to the roads.

I can't be bothered formatting this as I copied it directly from TRotR page 60.:rolleyes:

A single broken
yellow line along
the side of the
road
This road contains a hard shoulder,
which is normally only for
pedestrians and cyclists.
If a driver wants to allow a vehicle
behind them to overtake, they may
pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as
long as no pedestrians or cyclists are
already using it and no junctions or
entrances are nearby.
Different rules exist for hard
shoulders on motorways. See
Section 11 for details.

On single carriageway national roads there are many instances where it is perfectly safe and acceptable to pull onto the hard shoulder. The crucial point is to be AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS, i.e. don't pull onto the hard shoulder unless you can be perfectly sure that there is nothing or no-one on it in the first place. For example it's not a good idea to use the HS when going around a corner as there could be a vehicle pulled over that'll only become apparent on exiting the bend. I would have thought this obvious.

jaggiebunnet

coolbeans wrote: »

I can't be bothered formatting this as I copied it directly from TRotR page 60.:rolleyes:

and does your common sense tell that it is safe?

B00MSTICK

I travel from Galway to Shannon quite often and thankfully don't see this very often maybe the odd tractor slows things up but he often has nowhere to pull in.

What does get me though is when some person in a hurry is right on your bumper (Im more than likely over the limit) and you have nowhere safe to pull in, they then make a dangerous overtaking maneuver and speed off.
A few mins later you hit the Ennis bypass D.C and safely cruise by him. Whats the point in dangerously overtaking when youre approaching a road where you can go as fast as you like safely? (Really is a lovely road)

coolbeans

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

and does your common sense tell that it is safe?

Yes in certain instances it is perfectly safe. In others it's not as I've outlined. I regularly drive from South Tipperary to Dublin. I come across the situation described quite regularly.
Only pull in onto the HS when you can see what's ahead of you. What's wrong with that?