shooting topic on live line now 14:30

BryanL

pest control on golf club

flanum

i caught a bit of it at work, some misinformed knowledge of foxes...

johngalway

All of this is going from memory so forgive me if I get anything wrong here...

I also caught bits and pieces as I was working. Presenter kept asking shooters if what they were doing was legal. Ms Vegan (blatant anti) compared shooting foxes to shooting people :rolleyes: Others thought urban foxes shouldn't be shot, but understood problem foxes taking lambs and hens etc being shot and agreed with that. Vermin controller from The Hermitage golf course (I think) was on, foxes on GC's were no trouble he reckoned but rabbits were a plague. The GC in question, I forget the name, issued a statement saying the fox had been doing extensive damage to the greens over the past few years.

The bright sparks that shot it apparently done so at 10am Monday (?) morning infront of people, I reckon myself they need a kick in the rump for being that dumb if it's true.

The person who rang in initially used emotive language, kicking the fox a few times after shooting it (most likely once to see if it was dead before picking it up), "dragging" it to the golf buggy (it's not a Red Deer lads), Oh yes, and shooting it at "point blank" range.

Other things mentioned in the programme was the poisioning of foxes, they obviously don't know it's illegal. The first caller (I think) said they fox should be captured, treated for mange if it had it and released elsewhere :rolleyes: Is it not illegal to relocate wild animals? Either way it's dumping someones elses problem on other people. Also putting an urban fox into the countryside is not a good idea.

Plenty of other stuff that'd make a person bang their head off a wall in disbelief, but all in all it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Ms Vegan kept referring to the UK laws, until the presenter (I think) told her basically we don't live there, couldn't help but smile at that.

revan23

i personally think the foxes should be given the appropriate counseling, as some disadvantaged foxes probably feel isolated by their society, its very sad, they should be provided with more safe area's to do whatever it is they do, such as a golf course exclusively for fox use. also arranging group sessions where the rogue foxes can meet up with chickens and lambs etc.. to try to work out their differences... etc.. etc... blah blah...

you can't argue with stupid

Jonty

Twas some scutter, Ms. Vegan believed that a Farmer didn't have the right to protect his herd. She then said something about being a vegan and didn't believe it was right for a farmer to have lambs for slaughtering.

Everbody said it shot point blank range. Some other biddy said something about shooting cats and dogs next.

The antis will have a field day about this.

It wasn't me!

To be honest, if the lads shot it at point blank range, should they not be getting some sort of "stalker of the year" award? Didn't catch it myself. Is it available online anywhere?

thehair

foxed and rabbie on the golf green STOP get the E.R.U to shoot the hairy f-ucked:D lol

flanum

fair play to one caller, she was stating how they have become too numerous where she lives and doing loads of damage, she also pointed out the fox had no natural predator etc!... that mrs vegan one tho!!!!!!!!!!!! eejit!

thehair

flanum wrote: »

fair play to one caller, she was stating how they have become too numerous where she lives and doing loads of damage, she also pointed out the fox had no natural predator etc!... that mrs vegan one tho!!!!!!!!!!!! eejit!

+ 1 LOL my arse off

ivanthehunter

Ok i know the man who shot this fox, loads of people in my area know and respect him.
The storys begins with a local prob fox, a group of women:rolleyes: and a CG, there was a discussion involving some ladies long before the fox was shot which took place weeks ago, the ladies at the GC said that the fox was keeping the Grey Squirrel population at bay and that it should be left alone, their duologue took place within the GC (Golf Course) and the hunter involved was not a party to this discussion and subsequent in house debate, this was all fine and dandy till the fox started ripping up the greens, at this stage the CG called in an expert local gun man in to deal with the prob, the same man is well know in the area for his skill and even more for his knowledge of guns.. This particular man is a hunter all his life and was born into hunting, and his son follows in his footsteps,, anyway the man was approached by the GC and did not just choose to shoot an urban fox, by his very nature he repulsed by snares and such devices and does not condone trophy hunting on fox... he is a rock among the hunting community and as such i think it is unjust of people to attack here in this post a man whom which they know very little about and in circumstances which were not dictated by him, his only crime was the good intention to afford the GC some protection.. ps the fox was shot with a .22mag so whats point blank range for that,,

bunny shooter

The foxes family should sue for unlawful killing. I'm sure there's a solicitor out there that will take on the case.

So OK while fox is killing grey squirrels but if he tears up greens then death is his thanks, typical

johngalway

DOn't know if any of that was directed at me Ivan? But, if so, the kick in the rump I referred to was for doing it infront of an audience. Has nothing to do with how or why the fox was dispatched. Audiences breed trouble.

ivanthehunter

ok fair point, i,m not one for the high horse,, high stool yes!! but no high horse lectures here john.... I dont think i was really having a go at you, more of a go at people in terms of a general thing and especially in terms of the radio show,, oh god john i,m sorry man please forgive me:(
But al the sh** aside you can see how a good bloke got roped in to a crap job and now,, well i have heard that the Spanish Inquisition will be in galway first before being flow to miltown GC by the green party.:D.

ivanthehunter

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Ok i know the man who shot this fox, loads of people in my area know and respect him.

.....an expert local gun man in to deal with the prob, the same man is well know in the area for his skill and even more for his knowledge of guns.. This particular man is a hunter all his life and was born into hunting, and his son follows in his footsteps,, anyway the man was approached by the GC and did not just choose to shoot an urban fox, by his very nature he repulsed by snares and such devices and does not condone trophy hunting on fox... he is a rock among the hunting community and as such i think it is unjust of people to attack here in this post a man whom which they know very little about and in circumstances which were not dictated by him, his only crime was the good intention to afford the GC some protection..

Its hard to believe that such a good bloke actually know a snake like me;)

Rovi

Here you go-
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-liveline.smil

The item starts at 7:20.

It wasn't me!

Cheers Rovi.

Interesting. Nobody brought up the fact that Milltown Golf Club is a private enterprise and, assuming no laws with regard to safety were breached, were entirely within their rights to shoot the fox, and woe to any begrudgers. While I agree that doing it for an audience is bad form, I think it should be highlighted that it doesn't matter what people think, but there was nothing wrong with what happened.

Mellor

johngalway wrote: »

The Hermitage golf course

ivanthehunter wrote: »

miltown GC

Can anybody confirm what course it was. Its not hugely important, but i'd like to know if it was the hermitage

It wasn't me!

Seems to have been Milltown.

bunny shooter

Rovi wrote: »

Here you go-
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-liveline.smil

The item starts at 7:20.

You can always rely on Rovi

Traumadoc

I have often seen that fox around my parents house (Dartry), they used to feed it. It was terrible looking thing , as it was covered in mange, it survived because people left out food for it. I doubt it could have survived without food left out for him.

cavan shooter

I was listening to it in the jeep and knew it was going to be a good one as soon as the first guy opened his mouth, Almost sounded as if Milltown shot one of the local kids for trespassing.

What bugs me is the fact that they'll go up in arms over stray dogs, but want the urban foxes left alone because it's nature. There is nothing natural about a fox moving into the city, in fact it's quite un natural and shows how versatile these animals are.

Next they'll be drinking coffee on the liffy board walk

johngalway

Lol Ivan, no mate, I was just trying to clarify things more than anything else As for the SI coming to Galway, I won't loose any sleep over it

Mellor, It was Miltown GC that the fox got shot on.

And as a general point, I've absolutely nothing against foxes getting shot :cool:

Grizzly 45

Made todays Indo as well.The way the "residents" are describing it,you would swear they had a grandstand seat of the event??

Rovi

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Made todays Indo as well.The way the "residents" are describing it,you would swear they had a grandstand seat of the event??

Here it is (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outrage-after-golf-club-kills-neighbourhood-fox-1311160.html)-

Irish Independent, Saturday March 8th, 2008 wrote:

Outrage after golf club kills neighbourhood fox

By Breda Heffernan
Saturday March 08 2008

Residents living near an exclusive golf club are up in arms after officials had a neighbourhood fox shot dead for damaging the greens.

Milltown Golf Club in south Dublin said that the animal was shot because it had caused "extensive damage" to the greens in recent times. It was shot by a licensed contractor and in accordance with regulations, it added.

However, locals living nearby said they were horrified that the creature, which had been a source of fascination for their children, was destroyed.
They denied that the fox, thought to be around three years old, had caused any damage to the links.

"A lot of the neighbours are thinking where is it going to stop?

"Are they going to start shooting neighbours' dogs and cats if they get on to the golf course?" asked one local man on RTE's 'Liveline' programme.

He said that another resident and her two children had been left in a "terrible state" after they witnessed a man shooting the fox twice in the head at around 10am on Monday. This allegedly happened within 60 feet of surrounding houses.

"All the neighbours are up in arms, including ourselves. We had observed this fox, he was a magnificent creature. He had actually learned to not fear humans as much as they (foxes) do. He would often be seen in the golf club within maybe 50 feet of the golfers playing there," he added.

"Apparently, they shot him within 20 feet, two shots to the head, and then one of the guys from Milltown left the golf buggy thing and went over and kicked it.

"Then they just dragged it up on to the back of the buggy and drove off with it. It was shocking, absolutely shocking," he said.

- Breda Heffernan

It wasn't me!

Didn't your man on Liveline say something about it being around a hundred yards from houses? And then someone said sixty feet away from housing was the legal limit. Makes me think they jumped on that for the article and said "Well, it must have been inside sixty feet so, because it was definitely illegal". I'd view that with a generously raised eyebrow. Also, I'd view anyone saying an urban fox was "perfectly healthy" the same. They tend to be like red mangy rats.

Mellor

johngalway wrote: »

Mellor, It was Miltown GC that the fox got shot on.
:

would of been too good to be through if it was the hermitage,
for those that don't know, the hermitage is just off the N4 as it leaves Dublin, directly accross N4 is a pub, kind of well known, what pub? The Foxhunter

johngalway

Haha, that would have made a nice headline alright.

bunny shooter

listeneing to the piece I find it amazing that people claim foxes have "rights". They are putting animals on the same level as people.

Trojan911

bunny shooter wrote: »

listeneing to the piece I find it amazing that people claim foxes have "rights". They are putting animals on the same level as people.

Well, we are dealing with tree hugging, bed wetting, wanna-be do gooder anti's, who believe their sole purpose in life is to poke their noses into business that does not concern them.

I put it down to the massive intake of veggies they consume. It is bound to turn the brain towards a vegetate state sooner or later.

As for the local townies, they would have very limited knowledge of country affairs and many would view the fox as an innocent victim.

johngalway

Trojan911 wrote: »

who believe their sole purpose in life is to poke their noses into business that does not concern them.

Amen to that.

Sparks

Not that we'd have mirror image views on this, of course. We're the logical and rational ones...

Trojan911

Sparks wrote: »

Not that we'd have mirror image views on this, of course. We're the logical and rational ones...

Not sure if I detect a hint of sarcasm there. Please clarify.

johngalway

Yes, please do. I've not seen target shooting under pressure lately so I suppose these things are easy to say.

jawlie

Rovi wrote: »

Here it is (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/outrage-after-golf-club-kills-neighbourhood-fox-1311160.html)-

I'd say that, as a way to die for a fox, that's about as good as it gets. Anyone who has even come across a fox dying a "natural" death understands that nature is cruel and death if often horrible and painful for many animals.

Many city foxes have been starved since the introduction of the now ubiquitous wheelie bins, foxes previously having been able to break into the black sacks left out for the binmen as a ready and plentiful source of food.

No one denies foxes are beautiful animals. So are rats.

revan23

had the same silly argument with a female friend of mine yesterday who thinks all guns should be banned cause of dublin scummers shooting each other, no amount of explaination regarding olympic shooting, clays, hunting, target shooting etc..etc.. would make any difference, people are always most afraid of things they know nothing about, you cant change that no matter what... you will find that people most opposed to shooting foxes or shooting sports in general are the ones that know the least about them.

Sparks

johngalway wrote: »

Yes, please do. I've not seen target shooting under pressure lately so I suppose these things are easy to say.

That's fair to say I suppose. It's not like informal target shooting is about to be made illegal with serious jail and financial penalties, it's not like our ranges just got several times more expensive to construct and operate, and it's not like large numbers of firearms used by target shooters just got put on the restricted list or anything like that.

To answer both yourself and <CallsignUsedByTheLondonArmedPolice>-<AmericanEmergencyPhoneNumber>, if your opponents are so unreasonable, your best ally is to be reasonable. You're talking about the hardcore, paid-to-be-unreasonable people, yes, but you're talking in front of a large uninformed and as-yet-undecided audience of moderates (and yes, you are seen as representing your side of things at all times - just ask Samanta Power about that one). If the other side want to spout off into cartoonish diatribes on the cruelties of hunting and its ilk, you're best served by highlighting the foolishness of their case, not simply attacking their character. Doing so brings you to their level, and if you're correct, they've been there longer and so will have an advantage.

You understand my meaning?

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

That's fair to say I suppose. It's not like informal target shooting is about to be made illegal with serious jail and financial penalties, it's not like our ranges just got several times more expensive to construct and operate, and it's not like large numbers of firearms used by target shooters just got put on the restricted list or anything like that.

To answer both yourself and <CallsignUsedByTheLondonArmedPolice>-<AmericanEmergencyPhoneNumber>, if your opponents are so unreasonable, your best ally is to be reasonable. You're talking about the hardcore, paid-to-be-unreasonable people, yes, but you're talking in front of a large uninformed and as-yet-undecided audience of moderates (and yes, you are seen as representing your side of things at all times - just ask Samanta Power about that one). If the other side want to spout off into cartoonish diatribes on the cruelties of hunting and its ilk, you're best served by highlighting the foolishness of their case, not simply attacking their character. Doing so brings you to their level, and if you're correct, they've been there longer and so will have an advantage.

You understand my meaning?

sparks, could you clarify the position of informal target shooting in future please, a computer glitch doesnt allow me to open up the document posted on boards. ta

Sparks

By informal target shooting I mean target shooting (at whatever targets) carried out somewhere other than on an approved range. So, for example, shooting at tin cans in your field somewheres, or training for ISSF air pistol by shooting in your garage. Unless it's inspected, authorised and licenced, there are serious jail and financial penalties on the books if you're caught (and they have provision for range inspectors with serious powers of entry and search to seek out unauthorised shooting ranges).

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

By informal target shooting I mean target shooting (at whatever targets) carried out somewhere other than on an approved range. So, for example, shooting at tin cans in your field somewheres, or training for ISSF air pistol by shooting in your garage. Unless it's inspected, authorised and licenced, there are serious jail and financial penalties on the books if you're caught (and they have provision for range inspectors with serious powers of entry and search to seek out unauthorised shooting ranges).

Thanks that makes for gloomy reading,

E. Fudd

Sparks wrote: »

To answer both yourself and <CallsignUsedByTheLondonArmedPolice>-<AmericanEmergencyPhoneNumber>,

What has this got to do with anything??

Grizzly 45

Well, I had a look on huntsabs Ireland and if you have apeek in their Blog entry.You have the "miss Vegan"of Joe Duffy fame our ol pal the bould Bernie Wright.
BTW there are some pics of said "lady" in the website.She is the short redish blonde fat one,glad handing Gormless er... Gormley outside the Dail.
Dont bother trying to rationalise or argue with those kind of people .
You might as well try convincing a a fanatical muslim that a pork sanger is nice to eat.They only understand one thing,emotive and violent direct action.Fortuneatly there only 30 odd of these muppetts,but they have better PR than us.one of them, John Tierney runs a PR company in Waterford.[Surprised that they get letters in all papers or press coverage now?]
Sparks,
I detect a very gloomy outlook in things in general. Do you think things are better or worse than six years ago??Personally I think alot better,even with upcoming legislation,at least in most cases it seems less ambigious???

Trojan911

E. Fudd wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything??

It appears <namecommonlygiventoelectricians> is exercising sarcasm, just like I am doing right now. Darn I hate it when I bring myself down to another persons level. Sarcasm is so childish...

Sparks

E. Fudd wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything??

It highlights that as reasonable as we think we are, we often don't appear quite so reasonable to the audience. Someone who had no exposure to target shooting or hunting would think that quite a lot about us wasn't quite kosher at first glance, because they don't know any better. We would recognise it as harmless; they wouldn't have the experience that allows us to do so.

Grizzly,
Much, much worse for reasons laid out in the threads on the CJA. The topic seems unrelated to this thread though.

Trojan,
See above. And I'm not an electrician, the nickname stems from an incident in the electronics section of leaving cert physics many years ago and has kindof stuck.

Trojan911

Sparks wrote: »

See above. And I'm not an electrician, the nickname stems from an incident in the electronics section of leaving cert physics many years ago and has kindof stuck.

I see & acknowledge your point & I am fully aware of where you are coming from. However I chose my post, is down to me. There was no need for your comment. Although we may have different disciplines we are all in the same boat & should be singing from the same hymn sheet.

PS, I am not an armed london police officer nor am I a telephone from america.... My username stems from.... well that's my business & I'll say no more..

Gerri

Sparks wrote: »

By informal target shooting I mean target shooting (at whatever targets) carried out somewhere other than on an approved range. So, for example, shooting at tin cans in your field somewheres, or training for ISSF air pistol by shooting in your garage. Unless it's inspected, authorised and licenced, there are serious jail and financial penalties on the books if you're caught (and they have provision for range inspectors with serious powers of entry and search to seek out unauthorised shooting ranges).

By "they" I am assuming you mean the Gardai. They also have powers to arrest people who commit traffic offences, violent disorder, drink driving etc but it appears that in your opinion, "they" are going to ignore or at least curtail their work in these areas to concentrate their overstretched Gardai to visit law abiding shooters who are informally plinking, horror of horrors, on their own land or even surreptiously in their own garages? Perhaps there is somebody out there who will be able to provide facts about the number of times the Gardai have inspected ranges, firearms in people's homes or approached hunters while out hunting to check on their legitimacy, bearing in mind that there are over 230,000 firearms licenced here. Methinks they have enough to be doing dealing with the serious criminals. Not saying it COULDN'T happen but it is highly unlikely as they don't have the numbers at present.

Sparks

Wrong 'they' gerri. I was referring to the firearms range inspectors. however, the important point is that it will be illegal - you seen to be saying that people should break the law just because you think they won't be caught. not a good idea, that. Not to mention being a breach of the forum charter.

Grizzly 45

Would say these range inspectors are going to be along with the anti smoke inspectors,are going to be the most underworked/overworked people in the public service.

IDon'tKnow!

I don't like to hijack a thread but!

I was looking into buy a house on land about 10-20 acres, I was going to setup a informal rifle range and small clay layout on this.

So with these new laws would I not be able to shoot on my home range?

Or would I be able to shoot on it if it was up to some kind of standard?

IRLConor

IDon'tKnow! wrote: »

I don't like to hijack a thread but!

I was looking into buy a house on land about 10-20 acres, I was going to setup a informal rifle range and small clay layout on this.

So with these new laws would I not be able to shoot on my home range?

Or would I be able to shoot on it if it was up to some kind of standard?

You'd be able to shoot on it if it was an authorised range. Whether you can get it authorised or not is another matter and would depend largely on the layout of the range and the area it was in (a range with monster berms in the middle of nowhere will be easier to get authorised than a more simple range near a built-up area) and on the criteria used by the range inspectors to determine what is safe.

tonysopprano

Gerri wrote: »

By "they" I am assuming you mean the Gardai. They also have powers to arrest people who commit traffic offences, violent disorder, drink driving etc but it appears that in your opinion, "they" are going to ignore or at least curtail their work in these areas to concentrate their overstretched Gardai to visit law abiding shooters who are informally plinking, horror of horrors, on their own land or even surreptiously in their own garages? Perhaps there is somebody out there who will be able to provide facts about the number of times the Gardai have inspected ranges, firearms in people's homes or approached hunters while out hunting to check on their legitimacy, bearing in mind that there are over 230,000 firearms licenced here. Methinks they have enough to be doing dealing with the serious criminals. Not saying it COULDN'T happen but it is highly unlikely as they don't have the numbers at present.

Gerri, all you have to do is look at the reports in Sunday's papers to see

a)Operation Anvil closed down-lack of finance
b)Major crime squads 15-30% understaffed-lack of finance
c)Traffic units boosted-more income to be made

The more money a particular crime/offence brings in to the coffers, the more important it is to the powers that be.

Sparks

Tony, in case you missed the past 36 years of the history of our sport and the DoJ and Gardai, there's precedent to indicate that the probability of the Gardai cracking down on violations of firearms licencing law is utterly unrelated to the demand for their efforts in other areas of policing.

And in case you've not heard the many stories of armed gardai being called in because some member of the public with too many movies and not enough actual knowlege under their belt reported someone hunting rabbits as an armed gunman with an assault rifle; well, let's just say there's more than a few.

And on the range laws specifically, don't forget that the Gardai are already inspecting ranges. Midlands, RRPC, Hilltop, WTSC - they've all been certified already, before the legislation's even been commenced, and the Firearms Range Inspector (the chief one anyway) has already been appointed and has been to most of the ranges in the country.

In short, just because someone posted on an internet board anonymously that he/she didn't think the Gardai would check, don't think you can break firearms law with impunity. And frankly, it's rather worrying that any of us would suggest that course of action so readily.