Eirigi - what do people think

turgon

As I look over my shoulder to see if Oscar bravo is lurking about, I would like to talk about eirigi (eirigi.ie)

I personally dislike the faction with a passion. I feel they are still living in the past: their homepage has a big slogan about why the queen should not come to ireland.

I think they just want to be trouble makers - it seems strange that this irish party is giving out about Israel in its news section

What does everyone sles think of this group???????Do you think their ideas are outdated??????

Answer nicely or else oscar will chop this thread into a million pieces!!!!!

Dirk Gently

Is this another SWP front party?

also, correct link is www.eirigi.org , not .ie

Moriarty

I'm hesitant to leave this here and give it the oxygen of publicity.

The thread is remaining unlocked for the moment, but that may change at any point. There was a similar thread a couple of months ago iirc which was pretty pointless and I can see this one going down the same road.

oscarBravo

Isn't FTA69 involved in this? Or am I thinking of something else?

lostexpectation

Moriarty wrote: »

I'm hesitant to leave this here and give it the oxygen of publicity.

The thread is remaining unlocked for the moment, but that may change at any point. There was a similar thread a couple of months ago iirc which was pretty pointless and I can see this one going down the same road.

because political discussion is pointless...

McArmalite

Moriarty wrote: »

I'm hesitant to leave this here and give it the oxygen of publicity.

The thread is remaining unlocked for the moment, but that may change at any point. There was a similar thread a couple of months ago iirc which was pretty pointless and I can see this one going down the same road.

Looks like someone trolling to me to be honest with you Mod. I mean republicans to oppose a royal visit*, to be critical of Isreal - both look very reasonable to me. Seems to me the OP just wants to annoy oscarbravo.


*( No British withdrawal - No Royal visit, looks very reasonable to me ),

ballooba

Moriarty wrote: »

I'm hesitant to leave this here and give it the oxygen of publicity.

:eek::eek::eek:

Forgive my ignorance but why should any political grouping be denied the oxygen of publicity? Would the same policy have been applied here 15 years ago to Sinn Fein?

Eirigi would be far from my own politics but I don't see why they should be censored. At least these guys were the government. Even then it was questionable.

A Dub in Glasgo

If people disagree with a monarchy, how is it wrong that they would not agree to a visit by a monarchy?

Moriarty

You're more than welcome to start a thread on Feedback about any moderating decisions on the politics forum. It's done this way so that threads aren't derailed. Any further discussion of moderation in this thread will deleted and infractions will be handed out.

Erin Go Brath

Eirigi have every entitlement to display a public show of opposition to any Royal visit while the 6 are still occupied. I say good luck to them! They are a pretty new organisation, it'll be interesting to see how they develop. No doubt they'll get plenty of abuse from the begrudgers, but hopefully they'll carry on regardless and try and fulfill as many of their aims as they can.

bobbysands81

turgon wrote: »

As I look over my shoulder to see if Oscar bravo is lurking about, I would like to talk about eirigi (eirigi.ie)

I personally dislike the faction with a passion. I feel they are still living in the past: their homepage has a big slogan about why the queen should not come to ireland.

I think they just want to be trouble makers - it seems strange that this irish party is giving out about Israel in its news section

What does everyone sles think of this group???????Do you think their ideas are outdated??????

Answer nicely or else oscar will chop this thread into a million pieces!!!!!

Not speaking about Eirigi but why do some people like to support a sectarian monarchy such as the British monarchy? Sectarianism should be challenged at every opportunity. Catholics are not allowed be head of the British monarchy, imagine the (rightful) outcry if Protestants were barred from becomming Irish president???

I oppose sectarianism, I oppose the British monarchy.

It wasn't me!

The Irish president is not the head of a church. The British monarch is. Can you imagine how retarded the notion of a Catholic being head of the Anglican church is? It's pretty damn retarded. So no more sectarian than the pope having to be a catholic.

bobbysands81

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The Irish president is not the head of a church. The British monarch is. Can you imagine how retarded the notion of a Catholic being head of the Anglican church is? It's pretty damn retarded. So no more sectarian than the pope having to be a catholic.

:rolleyes:

Well lets make up a religion for Irish people and make the President the Head of said reliigon just so we can hide our sectarianism eh?

A lame lame lame excuse.

Tell me why it's not just the Queen then that isn't allowed become OR TO MARRY a Catholic? Why is it all the heirs then???

You're a sectarian apologist.

It wasn't me!

No I'm not, and I'd appreciated if you refrained from calling me names in future, thanks.

So, the head of a religion shouldn't have to be that religion? Doesn't make much sense to me.

As regards sectarianism, don't make me laugh. The Irish, and nationalist Irish, are the most sectarian bunch I've ever come across. Distrustful of protestants in a lot of ill-informed cases, think Unionists are loopy for wanting decent public services and refer to the "Brits" with a fair dose of vitriol at every turn, which is a load of my hole, frankly.

bobbysands81

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No I'm not, and I'd appreciated if you refrained from calling me names in future, thanks.

So, the head of a religion shouldn't have to be that religion? Doesn't make much sense to me.

As regards sectarianism, don't make me laugh. The Irish, and nationalist Irish, are the most sectarian bunch I've ever come across. Distrustful of protestants in a lot of ill-informed cases, think Unionists are loopy for wanting decent public services and refer to the "Brits" with a fair dose of vitriol at every turn, which is a load of my hole, frankly.

A racist AND sectarian statement now.

"...and to think I even heard a Jew once complaining about a Nazi.

A dastardly bunch those Jews are."

So the reason why there was a war in this country is because Unionists wanted decent public services* and Nationalists didn't???

*meaning public services that are anti-Catholic.

It wasn't me!

There was no war. There was a terrorist campaign.

I challenge you to illustrate where what I said was racist and sectarian. Go on, prove it. You get Boards credits if you can do it. :rolleyes:

speedboatchase

Bobbys just got hunger pangs, dont mind him

Moriarty

Lets keep to the topic of this thread, mkay? There's another very active thread at the moment regarding all things relating to the troubles.

dlofnep

éirígi seem like a good bunch of lads. They are new and active in what they do. There are many faces to republicanism, us who are opting for a peace political strategy for achieving an united ireland of equals (our loyalist friends included) and those who believe that political means will never achieve irish unity and that a war is as valid now as it ever was. My understanding is that éirígi is an activist based group, not linked to any paramilitary groups.

2 weeks ago, RTE performed the most blatant case of ambush journalism on éirígi. Anyone who has seen the video will attest to it. I wish éirígi all the best in their campaigns. But it looks as though the media is already jumping on the anti-republican bandwagon and judging them before even giving them a chance.

Dirk Gently

dlofnep wrote: »

éirígi seem like a good bunch of lads. They are new and active in what they do. There are many faces to republicanism, us who are opting for a peace political strategy for achieving an united ireland of equals (our loyalist friends included) and those who believe that political means will never achieve irish unity and that a war is as valid now as it ever was. My understanding is that éirígi is an activist based group, not linked to any paramilitary groups.

2 weeks ago, RTE performed the most blatant case of ambush journalism on éirígi. Anyone who has seen the video will attest to it. I wish éirígi all the best in their campaigns. But it looks as though the media is already jumping on the anti-republican bandwagon and judging them before even giving them a chance.

Who set up the group? I can't tell from the site if it's IRSP members or SWP members. You got a link to the RTE piece?

dlofnep

clown bag wrote: »

Who set up the group? I can't tell from the site if it's IRSP members or SWP members. You got a link to the RTE piece?

I'm not sure to be honest, they kind of sprung up out of nowhere a year or two ago. Brian Leeson is the head, that's all I know.

Here is the link to the RTE piece: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_k-nbTv2A3w

You can make your own judgements on it. From the get go, the bias is evident.

Dirk Gently

Looks like ex sinners so. Don't know much about them but at a guess I'd say they're a mix of disillushioned SF's / RSF's and lefty elements floating about. I was wondering when Richard boyd would pop into it. I know he wasn't representing éirígi on the clip but when I seen the website the other night his name was the first that popped into my mind. Is he involved in any way?

Sand

The visit of the royals should be strongly supported, if only because it will really drive the Eirigi crowd around the bend. No one else will care.

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

The visit of the royals should be strongly supported, if only because it will really drive the Eirigi crowd around the bend. No one else will care.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I assure you, more than the "eirigi crowd" would oppose a visit from the Queen. Not to correlate it with a violent protest, but we already saw in Dublin what happened when a bigotted Frazier came down. Think of that, multiplied by 100 if the Queen visited this country. And while the vast majority of us against it would stage a peaceful protest, you can be guarenteed the yobs will launch yet another assault on the nation's capital, causing millions in damage.

And for what? So the head of a state which occupys 6 counties of our country, can come over and pretend all is well on the Emerald Isle and that we've forgiven and forgotten? I suggest you meet my friend reality. He's been looking for you for some time now.

dsmythy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If people disagree with a monarchy, how is it wrong that they would not agree to a visit by a monarchy?

I wouldn't use that reasoning otherwise people will question why they havn't protested other non-British royal visits.

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Not speaking about Eirigi but why do some people like to support a sectarian monarchy such as the British monarchy? Sectarianism should be challenged at every opportunity. Catholics are not allowed be head of the British monarchy, imagine the (rightful) outcry if Protestants were barred from becomming Irish president???

I oppose sectarianism, I oppose the British monarchy.

Newsflash for you, Queen Victoria is dead, it is 2008 and Queen Elizabeth the second is on the throne now.

The Queen is the head of the Church of England, how does that make her sectarian, she is also the head of the commonwealth and as such is the head of an organisation that recognises many different religions, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu Buddhist etc. There is a lot less sectarianism in the UK than there is Ireland, north and south.

Please don't, for one minute, look at Northern Ireland and think that that is a general picture of the rest of the UK.

Sand

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I couldnt care less if the Queen visits or not. The vast majority of Irish people couldnt care less either. However, the enjoyment of seeing Eirigi and their ilk ****ting kittens over a proposed visit is hilarious enough to make me a strong supporter of her visit.

I assure you, more than the "eirigi crowd" would oppose a visit from the Queen. Not to correlate it with a violent protest, but we already saw in Dublin what happened when a bigotted Frazier came down. Think of that, multiplied by 100 if the Queen visited this country. And while the vast majority of us against it would stage a peaceful protest, you can be guarenteed the yobs will launch yet another assault on the nation's capital, causing millions in damage.

Another damn good reason for inviting her over - just to rub in the faces of those knuckle dragging troglodytes who shamed the entire nation with their disgusting behaviour during that march. Again, the vast majority of Irish people didnt give a damn to the point the violent tendencies of the "Republicans" were underestimated severely.

This time the Guards will be waiting for them Id say - And hopefully kick them around the place with interest for the last time they rioted too.

And for what? So the head of a state which occupys 6 counties of our country, can come over and pretend all is well on the Emerald Isle and that we've forgiven and forgotten? I suggest you meet my friend reality. He's been looking for you for some time now.

The UK doesnt occupy Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is a component of the UK. The majority of its population certainly do not feel they are under occupation. Ive not missed them, or their caveman tribalism. The UK are welcome to them imo.

As for forgiven and forgotten - FFS, its 2008. The UK have done absolutely nothing to me, to none of my friends, family or acquaintainces. Ive more genuine grievances against the French than I do the British. If you want to dig up anceint grudges and act like 1558 was just yesterday, or that all injustices against Ireland were somehow done to you personally - really, move on with the times.

Erin Go Brath

Sand wrote: »

The UK doesnt occupy Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is a component of the UK. The majority of its population certainly do not feel they are under occupation. Ive not missed them, or their caveman tribalism. The UK are welcome to them imo.

As for forgiven and forgotten - FFS, its 2008. The UK have done absolutely nothing to me, to none of my friends, family or acquaintainces. Ive more genuine grievances against the French than I do the British. If you want to dig up anceint grudges and act like 1558 was just yesterday, or that all injustices against Ireland were somehow done to you personally - really, move on with the times.

I see. So the plantation of ulster, creation of a British sectarian statelet post 26 county independence, and years of collusion, arming loyalist paras, gerrymandering etc were all natural occurances then?

There wouldnt be a seperate, (and sectarian) statelet in the North East of our island if the British hadn't worked so hard in creating the groundwork for it. They created the mess that is that statelet, lets not pretend it was some natural occurence that nobody really can be blamed for.

Sand

I see. So the plantation of ulster, creation of a British sectarian statelet post 26 county independence, and years of collusion, arming loyalist paras, gerrymandering etc were all natural occurances then?

There wouldnt be a seperate, (and sectarian) statelet in the North East of our island if the British hadn't worked so hard in creating the groundwork for it. They created the mess that is that statelet, lets not pretend it was some natural occurence that nobody really can be blamed for.

Oh dear.

Tell you what. When you find the actual Gaelic family from 1558 who were thown of their land, hire them a lawyer and sue the Planters who took it.

Oh wait - theyre all dead, it happened hundreds of years ago.

The way people go on youd think it was them the injustice had been done to

oscarBravo

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

I see. So the plantation of ulster, creation of a British sectarian statelet post 26 county independence, and years of collusion, arming loyalist paras, gerrymandering etc were all natural occurances then?

There wouldnt be a seperate, (and sectarian) statelet in the North East of our island if the British hadn't worked so hard in creating the groundwork for it. They created the mess that is that statelet, lets not pretend it was some natural occurence that nobody really can be blamed for.

Do you have a strawman factory somewhere? This post is a total non sequiter to the post it's replying to.

Erin Go Brath

Sand wrote: »

Oh dear.

Tell you what. When you find the actual Gaelic family from 1558 who were thown of their land, hire them a lawyer and sue the Planters who took it.

Oh wait - theyre all dead, it happened hundreds of years ago.

The way people go on youd think it was them the injustice had been done to

Ok, what about the collusion that has been happening until very recently? There is possibly collusion still happening, i wouldnt be surprised. Its all very easy for you to be sitting up in your ivory tower with your i'm alright jack attitude. What if you were on the wrong end of state policy which discriminated against you because of your religion? Would you still be singing the praises of the people who implemented, and enforced these policies?

oscarBravo

Who's currently being discriminated against because of their religion?

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

I couldnt care less if the Queen visits or not. The vast majority of Irish people couldnt care less either. However, the enjoyment of seeing Eirigi and their ilk ****ting kittens over a proposed visit is hilarious enough to make me a strong supporter of her visit.

Spite dictates your behavior. Good for you.

Sand wrote: »

Another damn good reason for inviting her over - just to rub in the faces of those knuckle dragging troglodytes who shamed the entire nation with their disgusting behaviour during that march. Again, the vast majority of Irish people didnt give a damn to the point the violent tendencies of the "Republicans" were underestimated severely.

Knuckle dragging troglodytes? If you are referring to the response to Willie Frazier's march, then that was a bunch of bored youths, and not republicans who caused an uproar in Dublin.

Sand wrote: »

This time the Guards will be waiting for them Id say - And hopefully kick them around the place with interest for the last time they rioted too.

Well, once again - they weren't Republicans. The Gardaí will respond to out of control youths in whatever way is required. I've no idea what this has to do with éirígí by the way.

Sand wrote: »

The UK doesnt occupy Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is a component of the UK. The majority of its population certainly do not feel they are under occupation. Ive not missed them, or their caveman tribalism. The UK are welcome to them imo.

Yes, it occupies the North. I'm very aware of what you miss and what you don't miss. The majority of the people in Ireland would vote for Irish Unity. I am sure of it. Forgive me for not buying into your argument of the "majority" of the people in the North, because it's irrelevant in the bigger picture - which is what the majority of the people on this Island want.

Sand wrote: »

As for forgiven and forgotten - FFS, its 2008. The UK have done absolutely nothing to me, to none of my friends, family or acquaintainces. Ive more genuine grievances against the French than I do the British. If you want to dig up anceint grudges and act like 1558 was just yesterday, or that all injustices against Ireland were somehow done to you personally - really, move on with the times.

The times? It wasn't long ago the official British military was using innocent civilians as young as 17 as cannon fodder in Derry. And for what, to hold control over the North and oppress the only threat to their control of the 6 counties? Imagine the uproar if the Irish army started using British civilians as cannon fodder? Or what about the evidence for collusion in the dublin/monaghan bombings between the UVF and official British security forces? We're not talking back in the plantations here.

So let's put things into perspective.

England places plantations in Ireland, introduces Penal laws, destroys the Irish language, takes the power away from the natives and gives it to foreign planters. Down the line, the British statelet has become so one-sided, the people in the North have to establish marches for equality.. Much similar to the black people in America. The British response? Trigger happy Sunday. The British recruitment posters should have said "Join the British army, kill an innocent 17 year old kid on your first outing!". I bet you won't like that one, will you? It's hard to deal the cold, harsh realities of British imperialism. Something you are more than happy to cater to. The men of 1916 would be ashamed of you, and no doubt - I am sure you would of been one of the ones who spat on them for their courageous role in Irish history.

So forgive me if I have the balls to go out of my way and still care about Irish Unity, it's history, language, culture and it's future as a United Island. Forgive me if I'm not willing to agree with British rule in Ireland, due to the forced nature which it came about.

So no, it's still ongoing. The North does not belong to the British imperialist machine and I couldn't care less about what selective folk like yourself have to say about it. You can buy into the normalizing process all you want. I won't.

stovelid

dlofnep wrote: »

and pretend all is well on the Emerald Isle

I really have to take issue with this.

If you're looking for a windy, excruciating national metaphor to wind us dissenters up, I really feel that Roisin Dubh or The Four Green Fields would more than suffice.

I expected better from you, dlofnep.

Rossibaby

Moriarty wrote: »

I'm hesitant to leave this here and give it the oxygen of publicity.

The thread is remaining unlocked for the moment, but that may change at any point. There was a similar thread a couple of months ago iirc which was pretty pointless and I can see this one going down the same road.

biased much??:D

eirigi are a good solid organisation...and as said before the way rte treaty leeson was a disgrace..i only wish it was george galloway in that position as he woulda ripped the interviewr to shreads.she didnt even now what she was talking about but was abvioulsy asing questions to which while he answered she would interrupt with a quick comeback....''how many were at the protest?''
around 30..
''well there were 76.000 people in teh stadium who would welcome her!

gutter journalism

eirigi have a lot of ex-provisional sinn fein within their ranks,and leeson looksl ike a very able leader and comes across as a nice guy too

people will dislike eirigi because they are republican,just look at 'sand' and how petty he is.he would love to crush the beliefs of others as he has none of his own...its a sad existence.

good luck to eirigi and i hope the branch take heed that harrassing them will not deter them...a forward thinking movement that is growing rapidly:)

btw the bias of anti-republicanism on this board is actually funny.they have no arguement because of a lack of knowledge...just throwing out cliches and generalisation...2 weeks ago i was told sinn fein were ''strictly pro-catholic'':D

dlofnep

stovelid wrote: »

I really have to take issue with this.

If you're looking for a windy, excruciating national metaphor to wind us dissenters up, I really feel that Roisin Dubh or The Four Green Fields would more than suffice.

I expected better from you, dlofnep.

Apologies for using such an outrageous metaphor. It will never happen again, I assure you.

EamonnKeane

England places plantations in Ireland, introduces Penal laws, destroys the Irish language, takes the power away from the natives and gives it to foreign planters.

Ireland was feudal in the 17th C.; all that really happened was one set of greedy, violent landlords was swapped for another.

Yes, it occupies the North. I'm very aware of what you miss and what you don't miss. The majority of the people in Ireland would vote for Irish Unity. I am sure of it. Forgive me for not buying into your argument of the "majority" of the people in the North, because it's irrelevant in the bigger picture - which is what the majority of the people on this Island want.

You ACTUALLY believe the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland? Then why did SF get just 142,500 votes in the last election, and four seats out of 166 in the Dáil? Most people in the Republic either hate or ignore the North, and see both sides as useless bigots.

dlofnep

EamonnKeane wrote: »

You ACTUALLY believe the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland? Then why did SF get just 142,500 votes in the last election, and four seats out of 166 in the Dáil? Most people in the Republic either hate or ignore the North, and see both sides as useless bigots.

Yes I do believe. And do you know why? Because it's true.

And your logic is awful. People may not have vote for SF due to it's past involvement with the PIRA and it's armed campaign in the North and the stigma that goes with it; along with biased news broadcasts putting SF in a bad light, lack of funding compared to FF and various other reasons. It had nothing to do with Irish Unity. People don't vote for a party for "one policy" - people vote for parties for a vast range of policies. The same way, FF voters are going to continue to vote for FF, despite the controversy surrounding Bertie Ahern. Why? They see a broader picture as FF voters.

And no, most people in the south don't hate or ignore the North. Do you have any polls to back up that or are you just going to make up your own numbers for the sake of it? Here is a poll stating that nearly 80% of people in the south want a United Ireland.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/04/02/story13121.asp

Have a nice day.

FTA69

oscarBravo wrote: »

Isn't FTA69 involved in this? Or am I thinking of something else?

If that crackpot is involved with them then they must be a shower of loons.

I was involved with them, I live in England now so I wouldn't call myself an activist anymore. I do support them whole-heartedly though.

Éirigi was originally set up as a campaigns group in Dublin and consisted of around six people, since then it has grown significantly in size and has become a political party. While many members of the party were originally in SF it would be wrong to describe them as a splinter, there are Republicans and Socialists who are members and supporters of Éirigi who were never involved in the Provisional Republican movement.

As someone alluded to earlier on they are grassroots campaigners, and would hope to build alliances with other like-minded groups. Their organisational structure is grassroots based and seeks to avoid the top down structure which was previously employed by other groups. Likewise they have no connection with any other group, and seek to move away from the "army/party" model which has categorised Republican organisations in the past.

guinnessdrinker

EamonnKeane wrote: »

You ACTUALLY believe the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland? Then why did SF get just 142,500 votes in the last election, and four seats out of 166 in the Dáil? Most people in the Republic either hate or ignore the North, and see both sides as useless bigots.

SF are not the only party in the Dail that want to see a United Ireland Eamonn.

And I don't think your claim that most people in the Republic hate or ignore the North has any basis in fact.

Rossibaby

but FF are ''the republican party" ;-)

A Dub in Glasgo

EamonnKeane wrote: »

You ACTUALLY believe the majority of Irish people want a united Ireland? Then why did SF get just 142,500 votes in the last election, and four seats out of 166 in the Dáil? Most people in the Republic either hate or ignore the North, and see both sides as useless bigots.

Who are the parties that do not want a united Ireland?

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

If that crackpot is involved with them then they must be a shower of loons.

Sand

Jesus cant believe this is still on the first page.

Erin Go Brath...

Ok, what about the collusion that has been happening until very recently? There is possibly collusion still happening, i wouldnt be surprised.

Possibly, and possibly there isnt. Collusion is a double edged sword also, there was an arms trial in Ireland after all, and some bitter accusations about the Gardai turning a blind eye to Provo activity from your idealogical brethern on the Loyalist side of the fence. And no, thats not an invitation to discuss collusion at great length.

Its all very easy for you to be sitting up in your ivory tower with your i'm alright jack attitude. What if you were on the wrong end of state policy which discriminated against you because of your religion? Would you still be singing the praises of the people who implemented, and enforced these policies?

Hmmm, probably not but I havent been. Neither have my family or my friends. Indeed, neither have been my ancestors for generations. The Penal laws were repealed hundreds of years ago.

I cant feel the same hatred and spite and bitterness you feel about the English or their head of state because they havent done anything to me. Now if you can perhaps share your tale of how the Queen of England touched you in a private place as a child or something, I could understand your bitterness but....meh. If she wants to visit, fine - Ive no strong feelings on that anymore than Id have strong feelings about the German Chancellor visiting.

Wake up. Its 2008. Ireland is our country, not Britains. They dont define us, we do.

dlofnep

Spite dictates your behavior. Good for you.

I enjoy seeing people getting wound up so badly about something so inconsequential. I wouldnt call that spite, more a sense of perspective. Sitcoms have been based on the hilarity of similar over-reactions. "Dont mention the war!!!", that good old "Careful now" Father Ted episode and all that. Its not my fault if Eirigi are ridiculous in their outrage.

Knuckle dragging troglodytes? If you are referring to the response to Willie Frazier's march, then that was a bunch of bored youths, and not republicans who caused an uproar in Dublin.

Ah, so now you deny the republican heartlands...

And no, they werent bored youths, they were knuckle dragging troglodytes who shamed Ireland.

Well, once again - they weren't Republicans. The Gardaí will respond to out of control youths in whatever way is required. I've no idea what this has to do with éirígí by the way.

Fellow travellers is the term I believe. The respectable types in suits, the "activists" in tracksuits on the streets. Similar to the BNP in that regard. Interestingly enough, the BNP also deny atrocities by their voting demographic as not being representitive of them or their policies.

Yes, it occupies the North. I'm very aware of what you miss and what you don't miss.

Nope it doesnt. Whatever I have missed it isnt geography classes.

The majority of the people in Ireland would vote for Irish Unity. I am sure of it.

The majority of the people on this island voted to remove the constitutional claim on Northern Ireland. Ill take that above your own claims.

Forgive me for not buying into your argument of the "majority" of the people in the North, because it's irrelevant in the bigger picture - which is what the majority of the people on this Island want.

Forgive me for not buying into your argument of the "majority" of the people in the Island, because it's irrelevant in the bigger picture - which is what the majority of the people on this Continent want.

Feel free to prove me wrong/right by demonstrating the sovereignty of this geographic sub-unit from the continent and thus the sovereignty of Northern Ireland.

England places plantations in Ireland, introduces Penal laws, destroys the Irish language, takes the power away from the natives and gives it to foreign planters. Down the line, the British statelet has become so one-sided, the people in the North have to establish marches for equality.. Much similar to the black people in America. The British response? Trigger happy Sunday. The British recruitment posters should have said "Join the British army, kill an innocent 17 year old kid on your first outing!". I bet you won't like that one, will you? It's hard to deal the cold, harsh realities of British imperialism.

Oh I dont know, the cold harsh realities of British imperialism cant be all that bad seeing as you seem to prefer them to the cold hard realities of 2008.

So forgive me if I have the balls to go out of my way and still care about Irish Unity, it's history, language, culture and it's future as a United Island. Forgive me if I'm not willing to agree with British rule in Ireland, due to the forced nature which it came about.

So no, it's still ongoing. The North does not belong to the British imperialist machine and I couldn't care less about what selective folk like yourself have to say about it. You can buy into the normalizing process all you want. I won't.

Actually youve inspired me. I too shall join your struggle.

I will be protesting against the British occupation of the north of Ireland on Grafton Street tommorrow at 1pm, through the medium of modern dance. Feel free to join me, well show 'em! All cash donated will go to Eirigis "Down with that sort of thing" & "careful now" banner fund.

Rossibaby....

''how many were at the protest?''
around 30..
''well there were 76.000 people in teh stadium who would welcome her!

gutter journalism

Welcome to 2008. Its a tough adjustment I know from the comforting days of 1972, 1916 and 1798 but give it a chance.

Though for the record, Id say it would be more accurate to say there were 76,000 in the stadium who wouldnt give a crap if she came or not.

eirigi have a lot of ex-provisional sinn fein within their ranks,

Ah, theres a shocker.

a forward thinking movement that is growing rapidly

LOL - A single issue movement, rooted in historical bitterness more like. But at least theyve stopped kneecapping people and murdering kids. Keeps them off the streets I suppose.

btw the bias of anti-republicanism on this board is actually funny.they have no arguement because of a lack of knowledge...just throwing out cliches and generalisation...

Is irony strong enough to describe this? Please, call me a West Brit because I disagree with you or Im afraid space and time will be torn apart.

2 weeks ago i was told sinn fein were ''strictly pro-catholic''

Its otherwise hard to explain their support for sectarian massacres of protestant workmen, sectarian attacks on protestant civillians in their home, or for sectarian bomb attacks on protestant civillians commemorating their dead.

Theoretically, the Provos were inheritors of the "united irishmen" idealogy. Theoretically, the Organge Order is simply a nice group of lads who like to dress up every summer. In practise, they were and are bitter, hateful sectarian organisations.

Sand

FTA69

I was involved with them, I live in England now so I wouldn't call myself an activist anymore. I do support them whole-heartedly though.

Interesting, a proud patriotic Irishman who is able to co-exist on the same island as the British head of state.

Who are we to deny the challenge FTA69 has presented us?!? We too must prove our credentials as proud, patriotic Irishmen and invite the British head of state over immediately so we too can prove we can exist on the same island for even a short period of time without the sky falling down!

Who's with me?!?

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

I enjoy seeing people getting wound up so badly about something so inconsequential. I wouldnt call that spite, more a sense of perspective. Sitcoms have been based on the hilarity of similar over-reactions. "Dont mention the war!!!", that good old "Careful now" Father Ted episode and all that. Its not my fault if Eirigi are ridiculous in their outrage.

Nope, my original statement remains. Spite dictates your behaviour. That's clearly evident by your posts in this thread. You are only here to point fingers at éirígí which are a good group of lads, who have embarked upon a peaceful alternative to Irish Unity. But instead of respecting that people have a difference of opinion to you, you come in here with intention to poke fun at people, without ever attempting to be productive from the get go.

Sand wrote: »

And no, they werent bored youths, they were knuckle dragging troglodytes who shamed Ireland.

No, they were bored youths. But I agree, they shamed Ireland.

Sand wrote: »

Fellow travellers is the term I believe. The respectable types in suits, the "activists" in tracksuits on the streets. Similar to the BNP in that regard. Interestingly enough, the BNP also deny atrocities by their voting demographic as not being representitive of them or their policies.

So you're trying to throw Irish Republicans in the same boat as the BNP? Lovely. Your logic to try and pain Republicans with the dirty brush is evident. Republicans, especially those in support of the GFA are respectable in both their actions and beliefs. I have never once witnessed anything close through real Republicans that I saw on the BBC infiltration documentary of the BNP.

So no, the outraged youths who caused an uproar in Dublin are not the voice of Republicanism, but more the typical loud mouths, who listen to wolftones and sing about "killing the Brits". That has no correlation with Republicanism. Absolute none whatsoever. Go find a new argument, because your tirade is getting old and I've seen it 1000 times over. You bring nothing new to me that I haven't seen before.

Sand wrote: »

The majority of the people on this island voted to remove the constitutional claim on Northern Ireland. Ill take that above your own claims.

It did not however remove any goals down the line for the idea of Irish Unity. And also, if you hadn't been so selective in your reading, you would of seen that I already posted and sourced a poll which outlined that 80% of people from the South still supported Irish Unity. The Good Friday agreement had many policies in which it covered, not withstanding for parties to cooperate using "exclusively peaceful and democratic means".

People wanted peace in Ireland and saw the GFA as their only option to that. The bombings of Dublin & Monaghan and the various attacks from both sides in the North would add further weight to supporting the GFA.

It does not however change the fact for one minute that the majority of the people in Ireland want Irish Unity. This is a fact. Something you cannot dispute. And, something which is on the rise, even in the North, to which the idea has increased by over 8% since the GFA and will continue to increase based on the VAST differences in the younger generation in the North today compared to those over 65 who support Irish Unity (20% difference); and also which of the population, only 10% of the North downright object to Irish Unity. Combine that with those like yourself in the South, you're greatly outnumbered. And that my friend, is FACT.

Sand wrote: »

Oh I dont know, the cold harsh realities of British imperialism cant be all that bad seeing as you seem to prefer them to the cold hard realities of 2008.

I'm aware of the realities. Are you? Britain still occupies the North. Nothing has changed. Britain has tried to normalise their rule, but their occupation still remains. It is still riddled with collusion. But that's ok, if you're willing to forgive Britain for murdering innocent children just a heartbeat ago, then you've already proven your select memory and logic to me.

Sand

Nope, my original statement remains. Spite dictates your behaviour. That's clearly evident by your posts in this thread. You are only here to point fingers at éirígí which are a good group of lads, who have embarked upon a peaceful alternative to Irish Unity. But instead of respecting that people have a difference of opinion to you, you come in here with intention to poke fun at people, without ever attempting to be productive from the get go.

Well, youre free to believe what you like. Eirigi and their foam mouthed fury at the idea of the British head of state visiting will still make me laugh.

No, they were bored youths. But I agree, they shamed Ireland.

No, they were knuckle dragging troglodytes. Bored youth? Theres bored youths all over Ireland. The vast majority of them avoid attacking peaceful marchers and starting a full scale riot.

So you're trying to throw Irish Republicans in the same boat as the BNP? Lovely. Your logic to try and pain Republicans with the dirty brush is evident.

Their own actions condemn them. Ultra nationalists with an at best ambivalent attitude towards violence are cut from the same cloth. The BNP is trying to dress up and seem respectable, and so are the Provos. They basically sing from the same tribalistic hymn sheet.

more the typical loud mouths, who listen to wolftones and sing about "killing the Brits". That has no correlation with Republicanism. Absolute none whatsoever.

Careful now, thats the second time youve denied the republican heartlands.

It did not however remove any goals down the line for the idea of Irish Unity.

It did a couple of things relating to Irish unity -

• It confirmed that Northern Ireland was, is and will be part of the UK until a majority of Northern Ireland inhabitants vote otherwise.
• Ireland revoked its constitutional claim on Northern Ireland
• People in Northern Ireland could describe themselves as British, Irish, or Martian as took their fancy if it kept them from murdering each other and everyone else.
• It also said people were free to pursue Irish unity as a legitimate objective through peaceful means if I recall correctly

It at no point said that Irish unity was desirable or an end point of the GFA process [ that just wouldnt fly in unionist circles]. The vast majority of people voted that Northern Ireland was part of the UK, that Ireland had no claim on that part of the UK, and the UKs citizens could call themselves whatever they want and pursue whatever politics they wanted so long as they didnt murder each other. So ends Irelands interest in the bitter tribalism north of the border.

You can try spin that, but the reality is that Ireland voted overwhelmingly to reject the constitutional claim on Northern Ireland.

I already posted and sourced a poll which outlined that 80% of people from the South still supported Irish Unity.

Oh great. A Poll. Well, thats completely irrefuteable then. People want to end poverty too. They dont want to pay high taxes though. Reality is a bitch.

Even if I dont begin to start on the poll itself, what question were they asked? Was it "Do you want to pay for the policing of Drumcree every year?" Or maybe it was " Do you yearn for a bitter loyalist bombing campaign in Dublin?", or possibly it was "Do you want to take on quite possibly one of the most state dependant economies in Europe?" Or could it have been "Do you want to see an *even worse* shower of political cavemen stinking up Dail Eireann with their sectarian bigotry and bile?"

Ireland will never, ever, ever, ever be interested in all the complete crap that comes with Northern Ireland. Look at the UK. They cannot wait to dump the place and run away screaming from the whole boring mess. Nobody wants Northern Ireland. Nobody. We dont want that set of problems, we dont have the budget the UK does to pay for everything up there.

And why would anyone in Northern Ireland want to be ruled from Dublin? Theyve a pretty sweet deal as it stands, with the UK paying for a welfare state that we cant supply and they have a good degree of local democracy that will only get stronger.

And believe me - so called republicans will not want a United Ireland. The dowry that will need to be paid to the Unionists will make them vomit. Irelands Call as the national anthemn. Irish removed as the national language, or Scots-Ulster as well. Orange Order marches up and down Drumcree daily. The Gardai disbanded and a more neutral force set up its place. Membership of the British Commonwealth. The Union Jack flying over Dail Eireann. Let alone what the Loyalists will demand to prevent violence, if it can be prevented at all.

But oh wait, like all fans of a United Ireland you assumed everyone would just change and become like you. The concept of bitter concessions having to be made probably never occured to you. So keep up the dream, thats fine. Your right to do so is supported by the GFA. But a United Ireland will never, ever, ever, ever come to pass.

Sand

I'm aware of the realities. Are you? Britain still occupies the North. Nothing has changed. Britain has tried to normalise their rule, but their occupation still remains. It is still riddled with collusion. But that's ok, if you're willing to forgive Britain for murdering innocent children just a heartbeat ago, then you've already proven your select memory and logic to me.

Thats just it though. I dont have to be willing to forgive Britain. THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO ME. Absolutely nothing to me, to my family, or to my friends. All my dealings with Britain and the British have been fine.

If I was to point out that murderers of innocent children and terrorists are sitting in Northern Irelands government Id be told by one of the Provos to "Move on". And yet for republicans, no grudge from the 12th century to modern times cannot be left lie - no injury too small, no insult too slight. What was that about select memory and logic again?

As for occupation - you are aware the same GFA you champion confirms that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and will remain so until a majority of its people vote otherwise? IE that Northern IReland being in the UK has a democratic mandate? Welcome to 2008.

stovelid

dlofnep wrote: »

So no, the outraged youths who caused an uproar in Dublin are not the voice of Republicanism, but more the typical loud mouths, who listen to wolftones and sing about "killing the Brits".

dlofnep wrote: »

It does not however change the fact for one minute that the majority of the people in Ireland want Irish Unity.
.

I'll not butt in between yourself and Sand, but the former statement made me laugh.

Your definition of the same constituency is contingent on the point you are trying to make.

Re: United Ireland: these 'loud mouths' comprise a substantial section of the your much alluded to 'majority'.

However, when their actions don't dovetail with those of the 'Republican vanguard', they magically become morons.

guinnessdrinker

stovelid wrote: »

Your definition of the same constituency is contingent on the point you are trying to make.

Re: United Ireland: these 'loud mouths' comprise a substantial section of the your much alluded to 'majority'.

However, when their actions don't dovetail with those of the 'Republican vanguard', they magically become morons.

Stove, the thing about it is though, that Eirigi and RSF are not the only groupings that wish to see a united Ireland someday.

I think sometimes people associate those who wish to see a united Ireland as nutcases which is not the case.

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

Well, youre free to believe what you like. Eirigi and their foam mouthed fury at the idea of the British head of state visiting will still make me laugh.

It's not foam mouthed fury. They have been very calm and collected about addressing the issue. Your description is inaccurate and unfair. Your spite is really distasteful.

Sand wrote: »

Their own actions condemn them. Ultra nationalists with an at best ambivalent attitude towards violence are cut from the same cloth. The BNP is trying to dress up and seem respectable, and so are the Provos. They basically sing from the same tribalistic hymn sheet.

No, they are not. And they are not ultra nationalists. The BNP essentially wants to ship foreigners away. The greater Republican movement is more than welcoming to immigration. A United Ireland of equals. Protestants, catholics and any others not withstanding. This is far from the realm of which the BNP operates. So no, I fully object to your attempt to correlate Republicanism with BNP's awful agenda.

Sand wrote: »

• It confirmed that Northern Ireland was, is and will be part of the UK until a majority of Northern Ireland inhabitants vote otherwise.
• Ireland revoked its constitutional claim on Northern Ireland
• People in Northern Ireland could describe themselves as British, Irish, or Martian as took their fancy if it kept them from murdering each other and everyone else.
• It also said people were free to pursue Irish unity as a legitimate objective through peaceful means if I recall correctly

Yes it did. It still does not change the fact that there is a majority support for Irish Unity in Ireland. People felt that an armed campaign was non-functional and that the GFA better addressed the situation to give the Island stability, in order to eventually achieve peaceful Unity down the line. Under no circumstances did the GFA ever indicate that Irish Unity was completely written out.

Sand wrote: »

It at no point said that Irish unity was desirable or an end point of the GFA process [ that just wouldnt fly in unionist circles]. The vast majority of people voted that Northern Ireland was part of the UK, that Ireland had no claim on that part of the UK, and the UKs citizens could call themselves whatever they want and pursue whatever politics they wanted so long as they didnt murder each other. So ends Irelands interest in the bitter tribalism north of the border.

So it has to state "it is desirable"? It is already evident that it is desirable. You're naive if you believe that people totally ruled out the possibility of Irish Unity with the introduction to the GFA. The GFA was a stepping stone to achieving, that is all.

Sand wrote: »

You can try spin that, but the reality is that Ireland voted overwhelmingly to reject the constitutional claim on Northern Ireland.

They voted on a vast wealth of issues. Not just the constitutional claim to the North. You forget to address that there is still the opportunity of Irish Unity via a majority vote, of which is much more realistic of today's generation (18-24), which is split more or less equal between nationalists and loyalists, compared to those over 60+ (where loyalists have a 35% majority) as indicated by the arc poll. Also, taking onboard an increase in general support of 8% of Irish Unity since the GFA, it is not something you can conveniently ignore.

It proves that there is large support for Irish Unity. All polls have suggested it. I don't need to "spin" anything. I'm already aware of who supports and who doesn't support Irish Unity. And I'm afraid sir, you're outnumbered by any poll that has been taken. Even in Britain, support for Irish Unity far outweighs support for the North remaining in the UK. (Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/aug/21/northernireland.northernireland1)

So let's sum it up. Britain does not want the North. The majority of Ireland wants Unity. A minority of people in Ireland wish to remain part of something that does not even want them.

Sand wrote: »

Oh great. A Poll. Well, thats completely irrefuteable then. People want to end poverty too. They dont want to pay high taxes though. Reality is a bitch.

It's a clear indication of support for Irish Unity. But the numbers don't suit your agenda so it's deemed worthless? I understand.

Sand wrote: »

Even if I dont begin to start on the poll itself, what question were they asked? Was it "Do you want to pay for the policing of Drumcree every year?" Or maybe it was " Do you yearn for a bitter loyalist bombing campaign in Dublin?", or possibly it was "Do you want to take on quite possibly one of the most state dependant economies in Europe?" Or could it have been "Do you want to see an *even worse* shower of political cavemen stinking up Dail Eireann with their sectarian bigotry and bile?"

That a boy, try to take attention away from the poll by making up false scenarios about what it might have said. If you had actually read the article, you would of seen that it addressed none of the above. Try again.

Sand wrote: »

Ireland will never, ever, ever, ever be interested in all the complete crap that comes with Northern Ireland. Look at the UK. They cannot wait to dump the place and run away screaming from the whole boring mess. Nobody wants Northern Ireland. Nobody. We dont want that set of problems, we dont have the budget the UK does to pay for everything up there.

Incorrect. Ireland is and always has been interested with the North. Only to people like you, is it considered and unwanted inconvenience. But that is not true for the majority of Ireland.

Sand wrote: »

And believe me - so called republicans will not want a United Ireland. The dowry that will need to be paid to the Unionists will make them vomit. Irelands Call as the national anthemn.

In retrospect, I don't think anyone would have severe problems with revamping the national anthem to cater for everyone on Ireland. It's no worse than the nationalists up North who have to live with "God save the Queen" everyday. But you'd rather cater to the loyalists, just out of spite and just to suit your argument.

Sand wrote: »

Irish removed as the national language, or Scots-Ulster as well.

The Irish language would never be removed from a United Ireland. It would benefit all those interested in the language, given that the loyalists already have not lived up to their side of the GFA, which incorporated an Irish Language act in the North. Irish Unity would give the language much more support in the North - something it does NOT have at present. I don't know where you came up with the idea for removal of the Irish language. It's an asinine suggestion.

Sand wrote: »

Orange Order marches up and down Drumcree daily. The Gardai disbanded and a more neutral force set up its place. Membership of the British Commonwealth. The Union Jack flying over Dail Eireann. Let alone what the Loyalists will demand to prevent violence, if it can be prevented at all.

The Union Jack would not fly over Dail Eireann. British rule and ties would be completely cut from Ireland. That is the whole point, to rid a connection with Britain and not cater to Britain's rule in Ireland. Why on earth would be fly a union Jack when Ireland would be a complete United and Independant state? the tricolour best suits the people of Ireland once people get over their small differences. Peace people both sides.

Sand wrote: »

But a United Ireland will never, ever, ever, ever come to pass.

That is your "opinion". I disagree. I think Irish Unity is inevitable. Maybe not in the next 10 years, but certainly within my lifetime.