Mpeg-2 to Mpeg-4 in FRANCE

The_Conductor

From my little bit of research- am I right that no-one else in the world, other than the South Koreans, are even thinking of using MPEG-4 64QAM at this stage? RTE Networks are sure going to be cutting edge! :eek: Makes a pleasant change I suppose- but its a bitch that you simply cannot get the hardware......

watty

Any MPEG4 box will do 64QAM. The two are not related.

MPEG4 is the codec used inside the MPEG2-Transport Stream.

64QAM is the constellation used for the OFDM signal. = 64 posible symbols, thus 6 bits per clock.

QAM16 (more common) is 4 bits per clock.

QAM64 simply needs a stronger signal/less noise.

Virtually all modulators and set boxes will do QPSK (=QAM4) to QAM265 (8 bits per symbol/clock, only usable on coax).

DVB-c MPEG4 typically uses QAM256, (or QAM64 on known poor SNR cables).

There are various boxes supporting DVB-t MPEG4 SD & HD.
The Lyngbox is a nice combo PVR.

There are also hybrid IPTV/DVB MPEG4 boxes for cable OR DTT. BT will be deploying one instead of current box.

The_Conductor

Ok wonderful- so while theoretically we might have a much better quality than elsewhere- if you don't have a strong UHF signal from RTE- you may as well throw up your hands and forget about it? With the BCI trials I could pull the MPEG2 signal (with difficulty and a little signal boosting) from 3 Rock (where even with signal boosting the analogue signal was very poor). I may as well give up altogether?

watty

it's nothing to do with MPEG4 vs MPEG2, quality or Signal. The MPEG4 simply doubles the number of channels at no other penalty. Really something for nothing.

The QAM64 needs more signal to noise than QAM16. Outdoor aerials only for most people. Allows 35% to 40% increase in channels

Of course in Limerick our Analogue is only 100W!!!!!!!!

It should be 10kW.

The transmitter could cover 200,000 to 300,000+ with over 80,000 on set top / Internal Aerial. But there is almost nowhere in Limerick City that can get a noise free picture without external aerial.

The_Conductor

Thats really poor.
Considering I was getting intermittent pixilation on MPEG2 and atrocious analogue- forget about it- might have been a better way of putting it.......
Why is Limerick so poorly served? Signal overflow from other areas- or the risk of it? Thats for another thread I guess.

I had a very interesting chat with a guy in RTE networks about whether RTE would ever go FTA on Astra- he maintained that copyright issues were not the deciding factor against it- the £38,000 per transponder per year annual fee was the decider. Why should RTE pay this- as it would benefit overseas viewers, and not terrestrial viewers.

Perhaps if they did a poll of all those Irish in Spain/Portugal/UK and offered them the channels for £200 a year or some reasonable enough price- they might get the funds for a few transponders before they knew what happened? Even here in Ireland- I'd pay £200 to be able to pull them off satellite without having to go through Sky....... Its ridiculous that they are being transmitted anyhow- but you have to buy a Sky package to pull them.........

Zaphod

smccarrick wrote: »

I had a very interesting chat with a guy in RTE networks about whether RTE would ever go FTA on Astra- he maintained that copyright issues were not the deciding factor against it- the £38,000 per transponder per year annual fee was the decider. Why should RTE pay this- as it would benefit overseas viewers, and not terrestrial viewers.

How drunk was he when he told you this?

If true, and transponders costs, rather than copyright issues, is the reason they won't go FTA, then what a crock of sh*t that is. Between Cathal Goan's €363K, Pat Kenny's €1M, Gaybo's retainer and the various other luminaries, they can't come up with €50k per year?

And it's not overseas viewers who would benefit, but all those with crap or non-existent TV reception in the Republic along with viewers in NI under the GFA commitments.

watty

on Astra 28E an entire transponder is $2M to 3M.

On Astra 19E or Hotbird 13E, a transponder is about $1.5M p.a.

£38,000 gets you a radio channel on 28E!

Sky EPG for TV costs more than that.

£38K pa will get an entire transponder on some feed satellite that no-one has dishes pointing at.

Fat_Fingers

probe wrote: »

Aside from that – the green issues – satellite dishes all over the place on houses and apartment buildings. Ugly. DTT works fine from indoor or outdoor conventional antennae structures. Make DTT the default, and the country will look less ugly.

.probe

Whoa! :D So you are saying antennas sticking everywhere to you are "prettier" then dishes. Man, have you traveled around Italy?? It looks absolutely mad with literally hundreds of antennas on roofs of the buildings. Its like a mad afro on top of every building. And this is also "greener" solution???? Damn man you have me scratching my head here.

watty

Satellite is MUCH greener than terrestrial. Even adding the scary firework that puts the bird up.

Do you know how much electric is needed for 100 channels terrestrially with 99.5% coverage! Ha!

watty

Was the DCMNR trial using 16QAM?

watty wrote: »

£38K pa will get an entire transponder on some feed satellite that no-one has dishes pointing at.

Probably in inclined orbit too.

Hissing Sideban

watty wrote: »

Neotion Pocket Duo
A combo CAM and MPEG4 --> MPEG2 converter.
Fits CI slot.
Has ethernet socket.

Worked with SD MPEG4 trial in a regular pay TV DTT setbox CI slot. Should work in many Digital TVs.

Inherently CAN'T do HDTV.

My advice though is to wait till Jan/Feb 2009

I have a 'Conax MPEG4 NP4 Neotion Processor HDTV', model CAM-CXMPG4, http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php/language/en/info/p129_Conax-MPEG4-NP4-Neotion-Processor-HDTV.html/XTCsid/8fd65e1bc52681e780ac3202def486f2 (no RJ45 plug on it)plugged into the CAM slot of my Panasonic TH37PX80B, and I can get none of the MPEG4 stuff (Channel 42 from Mt Leinster AFAIK)The SD Ch39 and 45 are fine in MPEG 2 mode with or without the Neotion.
Not sure if the CAM needs a card in it to activate it. The TV 'knows' it's there, if you look in the setup menu

Any Ideas why Watty?

Also interesting that it's title it calls itself 'HDTV'

maxg

Check if there are any options in the cam menu.
If the channels via Mt.Leinster are flagged none scrambled and the firmware of your panny come not to the idea to send the stream for none scrambled channels to the ci-modul you are maybe out of luck.

The_Conductor

I thought the MPEG-4 transmissions didn't start until the 4th of August- the MPEG-2 transmissions terminating on the 31st of July? Might this be the reason?

S.

maxg

OTV is being broadcast in SD and mpeg4. The hd test channel is also being broadcast in mpeg4 but most of the mpeg2 decoder are not able to handle the high data amount of hd and it doesn't matter if a mpeg4 to mepg2 conversion is working or not for hd.

Hissing Sideban

maxg wrote: »

Check if there are any options in the cam menu.
If the channels via Mt.Leinster are flagged none scrambled and the firmware of your panny come not to the idea to send the stream for none scrambled channels to the ci-modul you are maybe out of luck.

No, I have checked several times for options in the CAM menu, nothing there that has any effect.

I don't know whether the MPEG4 stuff is flagged as scrambled, but I do know that the MPEG 2 multiplexes are flagged as scrambled, even though they are not actually scrambled - this is the reason why a UK type freeview box won't work if it has no card slot or CAM slot, but those that do have one work fine (I have tried both to see)
As you say, I might be out of luck!

maxg

There should be a option to enable or disable mpeg4 to mpeg2 conversion. In the modul menu at the latest viacess neotion modul there is such a option.
If OTV is flagged as scrambled or not you have to check the PMT.

The_Conductor

Hissing Sideban wrote: »

I have a 'Conax MPEG4 NP4 Neotion Processor HDTV', model CAM-CXMPG4, http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php/language/en/info/p129_Conax-MPEG4-NP4-Neotion-Processor-HDTV.html/XTCsid/8fd65e1bc52681e780ac3202def486f2 (no RJ45 plug on it)plugged into the CAM slot of my Panasonic TH37PX80B, and I can get none of the MPEG4 stuff (Channel 42 from Mt Leinster AFAIK)The SD Ch39 and 45 are fine in MPEG 2 mode with or without the Neotion.
Not sure if the CAM needs a card in it to activate it. The TV 'knows' it's there, if you look in the setup menu

Any Ideas why Watty?

Also interesting that it's title it calls itself 'HDTV'

I got one of these on the basis of what Hissing Sideban posted above- its working perfectly in a S Series Sony- picture looks amazing (far better than the DCMNR trial). S.

Antenna

watty wrote: »

Of course in Limerick our Analogue is only 100W!!!!!!!!

RTENL says its 2kW (Woodcock Hill)

see
http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

mickeyboymel

maxg wrote: »

There should be a option to enable or disable mpeg4 to mpeg2 conversion. In the modul menu at the latest viacess neotion modul there is such a option.
If OTV is flagged as scrambled or not you have to check the PMT.

Is this where it differs from the Conax version of the same CAM?(Apart from the two different encryption methods) I cannot seem to find any similar setting in the onscreen CAM menu on my Samsung TV with the Conax Neotion Cam inserted. If there were an option to enable conversion in the Viaacess version it might be worth a try before I give up on the Samsung telly ever being able to convert MPEG4 To MPEG2 via the CI Slot.

maxg

If the firmware at your TV is not willing to pipe blindly the transponder stream for none scrambled channels through a cam the neotion module are not working.
The firmware at some TV's check before if descrambling is necessary or not.