Donnybrook Redevelopment

[Jackass]

Hi,

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if there are any further plans to develop Donnybrook with a phase 2 or 3?

I've been in the new stand a few times recently to watch schools rugby and am really impressed with the new stand, especially with the size of it and also the space underneath and size of toilets etc.

It got me thinking, why didn't they put the dressing rooms underneath the stand in the middle? There would have been enough room for large toilets either end of the stand and the middle would have room for two large dressing rooms and a foyer area leading out onto the pitch.

I heard rumours that they are possibly going to put a twin stand on the other side of the ground where the tennis courts are at the moment.

If that was the case they could put dressing rooms underneath the stand on that end as it leads off to the training pitch at the back and then could knock the two club houses and close off the stand with terracing...would give the ground at the very least a 15,000 capacity I'd imagine...

Also, looking at the McNamara website, this development cost €5.5m to date (no furhter projects shown on website) and Munster are doing a massive redevelopment of Thomond at a cost of €40m and giving the ground a capacity of 26,000 in a modern, very good looking stadium...how is their ambition so much greater than ours (Leinster fan ) and how have they so much more resources??

I hope this one stand in Donnybrook isn't to us what the East Stand was to Lansdowne road...one modern, big capacity stand plonked around a decaying ground and that'll do...redeveloped!! While everyone else passes us by...

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

Also, looking at the McNamara website, this development cost €5.5m to date (no furhter projects shown on website) and Munster are doing a massive redevelopment of Thomond at a cost of €40m and giving the ground a capacity of 26,000 in a modern, very good looking stadium...how is their ambition so much greater than ours (Leinster fan ) and how have they so much more resources??

Leinster aren't going to be moving back to Donnybrook, the RDS is going to remain their home ground (and Lansdowne for the bigger games presumably when its done).

phog

I can't see why Leinster would want spend anything like €40m - they have the RDS for ML and HEC matches and if there is a possibility of expecting a bigger crowd then they will be able to take the game to Lansdown Rd (when opened), they may need to get permission from the HEC Organisers to do this for a pool game but I cant see it being blocked - at the end of the day it'll be about ticket sales.

[Jackass]

Yeah but surely an FAI stance of having nothing at all wont do...

I mean to develop Donnybrook to it's full potential, lets say 20,000 capacity, modern ground, means it's big enough for all Leinster games to be played in until quarter or semi time in HC when the can switch to Lansdowne, but it's not just about that, it's about having a home...how can we ever expect to have a fortress like Thomond when we're at a stage where we play ML games in Donnybrook, HC group games in RDS (borrowed) and Latter stages in Lansdowne road (borrowed)...if you ground swop every second week for differnt games, you don't build up as much of a strong home mentality imo and get the tradition and passion going...it turns into a decision of where you play depends on ticket sales rathar than the club the fans the tradtition and the passion...welcome to professional rugby, I know, but a fully developed Donnybrook is a lasting investment in Leinster rugby that gives us a home for up to 30 years, money well spent i reckon...I'm telling you, Munster will get the last laugh in this one...especially when RDS is sold off for high rise apartments in ten years time and we have to try and do it then at greater cost and 10 years behind in Revenue from our own ground as well...

I'm sure lots of rugby clubs across the uk who could have borrowed soccer grounds for big matches and kept their ground relatively small and undeveloped, but chose to spend the money investing in their own infrastructure, anyway which leads to more income and a better situation for the team...

phog

Actually a lot of clubs in England seem to share their ground with a soccer club and in Frnace they seem to use municipal grounds. I can see your point about "home" but I'd much perfer to see my club/province invest in players than non essential ground development.

As a matter of interest what is the capacity of the RDS and Donnybrook now that both have got a make over.

[Jackass]

RDS was redeveloped with seating replacing the terraces at each end and a new pitch surface and flood lights etc., and now holds 18,500 all seated. But Leinster rugby pays high rent to RDS management for this and afaik footed some of the bill for the redevelopment also.

The old capacity of Donnybrook was 7,500. As far as I know the redeveloped Donnybrook now holds about 12,500...the vast majority of that in one stand on the side of the pitch...the rest being very small, tight terracess. I had to look that up myself to find out about Donnybrook...It's actually more than I thought, so the potential capacity is actually much higher...it could probably hit 25,000+ if fully redeveloped.

Podge_irl

There are small terraces in the RDS still, but not that large (and have a crappy view anyway it seems). Leinster won't be switching grounds, they're not going to be using Donnybrook for Magners games - its too damn small. There were 14,000 at a mid-6 Nations game without the internationals, that's fantastic going. Donnybrook simply isn't big enough. And I don't just mean the stadium, I mean the area they own and the infrastructure. Its going to be the RDS and sometimes Landowne (much like it would be/was with Donnybrook anyway, so the whole ground hopping argument is baseless).

Donnybrook has fewer seats than there are season ticket holders as is. The RDS is a good stadium and Leinster have a long term agreement in place now so its both cheaper and a more secure ground than it was initially. The fact that Leinster don't own it is reasonably immaterial. Anyway, I believe they tried to get a larger redevelopment of Donnybrook and couldn't get planning permission for it or the apartments they needed too build to fund it.

dc69

someone really screwed up,donnybrook is a shambles.ONE stand and the rest goes to waste while some apartments are built to pay for the ONE stand.what a joke,no point in even bothering to build it all imo.if you are going to do a job do it right not half arsed

jackbhoy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Donnybrook simply isn't big enough. And I don't just mean the stadium, I mean the area they own and the infrastructure.

Exactly! The Donnybrook site is tiny, the new stand is practically on the footpath as is and the opposite side is very restricted, each end has limited development potential given it would have to accommodate Bective/Wesley. Even if they tried to put a 25k stadium here they could never get planning as access etc would be nightmare, so think the lack of ambition thing is way off, especially as we've trebled our average attendance in last couple of seasons.
If you look at thomond its a pretty big site and believe they bought up load of houses on Thomond Gate to increase size, plus they don't have an RDS/Landsowne Rd on their doorstep so they needed to build one very good stadium to suit all games. Looking forward to getting back to Thomnd, especially after the miserable conditions in Musgrave when we visited this season.

Diamondmaker

Sell the 'Brook and pump the money into the game and further RDS improvements with some form of arrsngement with the RDS in turn for the teant improvements being funded by the tenant.

dc69

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Sell the 'Brook and pump the money into the game and further RDS improvements with some form of arrsngement with the RDS in turn for the teant improvements being funded by the tenant.

yeah but the rds is primarily for horse jumping so thats never going to happen.
in order of importance for rds

1-horses
2-rugby

they could have just paid off the tennis court members and build a mirror of the new stand where the tennis court stands are,then they could have built a new huge stand opposite to the wesley end,where the bective and the rugby store are.They could have built bective a new club house under the new stand as it would rise 2 times higher then the other new ones they built.they screwed it up big time imo

jackbhoy

dc69 wrote: »

they could have just paid off the tennis court members and build a mirror of the new stand where the tennis court stands are,then they could have built a new huge stand opposite to the wesley end,where the bective and the rugby store are.They could have built bective a new club house under the new stand as it would rise 2 times higher then the other new ones they built.they screwed it up big time imo

I think things you mention were investigated fully by branch and I'm sure if they were viable they would've been pursued. From what I heard planning would've been nigh on impossible to get and tennis club/neighbours were against any further development. Just squeezing stands on to site is not enough, they would all have to use same existing entrances at wesley/bective end which would not be enough to safely handle three/fourfold increase in attendance.
Except for 1 week every August the RDS is at Leinsters disposal for all games so don't really see any problems there....

Diamondmaker

dc69 wrote: »

yeah but the rds is primarily for horse jumping so thats never going to happen.
in order of importance for rds

1-horses
2-rugby

The last few seasons have proven thee is no clash and the RDS is basically a permanent home now so there is no reson as simple as above that this could not happen. Clubs share much busier schedules with different sports than the RDS would have to manage with the odd horsey event ...

Dollar is bottom line and Im having a stab that Leinmster contribute more to the RDS coffers than the horse show and any other odd horsey events does.

I love Donnybrook but it seems to be a bit of a white elephant now, and again cash, ie. real estate is king...

simonrooneyzaga

dc69 wrote: »

yeah but the rds is primarily for horse jumping so thats never going to happen.
in order of importance for rds

1-horses
2-rugby

The RDS is now officially the new home of Leinster 1st's rugby. There is no plans to move the team back into Donnybrook and no games will be played in landsdowne either when that is finished. The RDS is a great ground with a brilliant atmosphere.. 19,000 is the perfect crowd for Leinster, as they cant fill Lansdowne but are far too big a team for donnybrook.

Diamondmaker

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

.. 19,000 is the perfect crowd for Leinster, as they cant fill Lansdowne but are far too big a team for donnybrook.

Apart from when the dirty grubby Munster fans get there greasy mits on Leinster tickets for the Derby games

John_C

I think Leinster rugby has a very good set up. They have stadia holding 50 thousand, 20 thousand, 10 thousand and 5 thousand all along a one mile stretch of raod. It's hard to imagine any combination of matches that won't fit onto these.

ALH-06

There have been big plans in the pipeline for years to redevelop Donnybrook completely, with a new stand by the tennis courts and new expansive terracing to the north and south. Would have made it a modern 20,000 capacity stadium, owned by Leinster Rugby and at it's spiritual home. More costly but definitely a better situation ideally than the current RDS arrangement.

But Leinster struggled for years to get planning permission - Donnybrook residents are, after all, nearly exclusively lawyers and barristers by profession! There was no chance of getting planning permission for the apartments they were planning to build on both the Wesley and Bective ends to finance the project.

It's a real pity. The plans were amazing. There were going to be excellent gym and medical facilities, greatly expanded academy facilites etc that we just won't see with the current arrangment.

Snickers Man

ALH-06 wrote: »

But Leinster struggled for years to get planning permission - Donnybrook residents are, after all, nearly exclusively lawyers and barristers by profession!

No we ****ing aren't.

Stereotyping Muppet!!!

ALH-06

Ah come on I wasnt being serious! I take it back if it caused any offence....

It's usually much harder to get planning permission for things like that in wealthier areas, that's all I wanted to say.

jdivision

I don't know Donnybrook very well but are the Bective tennis courts the ones you're talking about. the irfu approached them (see below) and i think a deal's been done

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2007/10/07/story27249.asp

Donnybrook Lawn Tennis Club is offered two property swap deals

The members of Donnybrook Lawn Tennis Club in Dublin have received two approaches from property developers who want to swap sites for the club.

Members of the club met last week at the Tara Towers hotel in Dublin to discuss an approach from Sean Reilly of McGarrell Reilly. Reilly offered to swap a five-acre site known as Scully’s Field in Clonskeagh in return for the 2.2-acre site in Donnybrook.

The meeting was called to discuss a resolution to ‘‘authorise the committee to actively pursue and negotiate, without commitment’’ on Reilly’s proposal.

Reilly is proposing to provide three indoor courts, a new clubhouse and between six and seven outdoor courts at Scully’s Field.

According to members who attended the information meeting last week, feedback towards the proposal was largely negative. An extraordinary general meeting is planned for Tuesday to vote on the proposal that the committee pursue the deal.

The club has also been approached by developer Bernard McNamara, who is offering a site on the Rock Road in Dublin, but negotiations are in their infancy.

McNamara recently paid more than €75 million an acre to buy the Burlington Hotel in Donnybrook.

However, the valuation of the tennis club would be below that because only a small part of it is zoned as residential. Most of it is zoned as amenity land.

Earlier this year, the IRFU is understood to have approached the members of Bective Tennis Club, which is also in Donnybrook, offering to acquire their club site.

Jackz

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

The RDS is now officially the new home of Leinster 1st's rugby. There is no plans to move the team back into Donnybrook and no games will be played in landsdowne either when that is finished. The RDS is a great ground with a brilliant atmosphere.. 19,000 is the perfect crowd for Leinster, as they cant fill Lansdowne but are far too big a team for donnybrook.

Nothing seems very permanent, they are changing in prefabs.

nc6000

Leinster Rugby are building new dressing rooms under the Grand Stand down towards the South Stand where the players currently enter the pitch from, they'll be ready for next season if not complete by the end of this season. There is also a roof going on the stand on the west side of the pitch. I like the setup in the RDS. In fairness it's much better than any soccer facility I can think of.:)

simonrooneyzaga

[Jackass] wrote: »

The old capacity of Donnybrook was 7,500. As far as I know the redeveloped Donnybrook now holds about 12,500...the vast majority of that in one stand on the side of the pitch...the rest being very small, tight terracess. I had to look that up myself to find out about Donnybrook...It's actually more than I thought, so the potential capacity is actually much higher...it could probably hit 25,000+ if fully redeveloped.

Donnybrooks current capacity is not far off what it was before, still around 7000 - Its certainly not 12,500 - The extra seats in the stadium are offset by the removal of the massive terracing that was on at the bective end

simonrooneyzaga

Jackz wrote: »

Nothing seems very permanent, they are changing in prefabs.

They are building new changing rooms as we speak under the anglesea road.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/index.asp?docID=2125 - Mick Dawson, Leinster Rugby CEO answers questions from fans in this article and talks at length about new facilities being put in place for the rugby. Granstand roofs on the uncovered stand included. They do seem to be settling in JAckz!

wowy

We had the CEO of the RDS in for a strategy seminar a few weeks ago, and he categorically said that Leinster are there to stay. They've signed a long-term contract to play in the RDS, and once all the building work (changing rooms, roof on grandstand) has completed, there'll be an even greater promotion to emphasise the RDS as the home of Leinster Rugby. So that's that then. Also, interstingly, he said that there was also potential in the future to increase it to about a 26,000 capacity, which would be very good. But very unlikely for a long time I'd say. And about the horse-show, the set up for the Simmonscourt Arena is that September-May is Leinster Rugby, June and July are the outdoor concerts, and then August is the horse-show. No overlap, and not really too much pressure with regard to usage.

Jackz

simonrooneyzaga wrote: »

They are building new changing rooms as we speak under the anglesea road.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/index.asp?docID=2125 - Mick Dawson, Leinster Rugby CEO answers questions from fans in this article and talks at length about new facilities being put in place for the rugby. Granstand roofs on the uncovered stand included. They do seem to be settling in JAckz!

Ah cool, I saw another building up there having the horse dividers taken out on Saturday when I was there for the Lansdowne match. Good Q&A on that link the "members" bar is a bit of a joke. I guess you guys got your extra tickets for the Munster game today? Any idea when the rest will be sold?

terry mac

If they could get rid of the tennis courts on the far side of the Donnybrook pitch, it could have a decent capacity. I don't know the details so please feel free to correct me, but I heard that the Tennis club just won't sell up no matter what they've been offered.

simonrooneyzaga

im pretty sure at least some of them are going but theres appartments going up there to pay for the new stand and new facilities to be built on the back pitch. They will be adding a top class gym and changing rooms there if the rumours are to be believed - moving towards self-sufficiancy basically!

the cheese

There is no real need to develop Donnybrook any further

The main reason to have it now is purely for schools rugby and other finals (club junior level, colours match etc).

Anyway the site that its built on is too small for any further development, capacity wise as Donnybrook pretty much comes to a standstill when any match is on. Also there is no room inside to even move around when any capacity is there.

I think there is to be some change though to the terracing at the Old Wesley end including the downstairs bar being knocked down. Not sure if this is right

kerosene

How much do leinster rugby have to pay the RDS for the rental of the stadium

Big Nelly

kerosene wrote: »

How much do leinster rugby have to pay the RDS for the rental of the stadium

Why u bringing up a thread from 2008???

trippyrez

My understanding of it was that the two clubs who reside in Donnybrook tried to force the Leinster branch's hand in terms of what they might get out of the deal in terms of club houses etc. The Branch faced mounting costs and the alternative of the RDS was floated. They signed a 20 year lease on the RDS two years ago so if anywhere is going to have money sent on it it is the RDS.

So basically the Branch weren't going to be pushed around and now Donnybrook will probably never be the home of Leinster rugby again.

CIARAN_BOYLE

07-08 was the first year of a 20 year lease which obligates Leinster to play 12 home games in the RDS each season. So 4 of the 20 years are up now.

There is a break clause after 5 years where Leinster can buy out the contract. There is a second break clause after 10 years where either party can walk.

I wouldn't be surprised if after the 10 year break clause Leinster look at renegotiating the lease to cover less games and move a few extra games to the Aviva.

Donnybrook will never be home again. The site is too small to do much more than add 1-2K onto capacity which would never work.

kerosene

Big Nelly wrote: »

Why u bringing up a thread from 2008???

I just stumbled across this thread I didnt even realise it was from 3 years ago. I was just curious what Rds would charge for the hire of the stadium. I know that a couple of soccer teams played there at one stage but Leinster get probably 5 times the crowd, I wonder if thats reflected in the cost of hiring the rds.

justsomebloke

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if after the 10 year break clause Leinster look at renegotiating the lease to cover less games and move a few extra games to the Aviva.

Given the redevelopment of the grandstand I highly doubt this will happen

spank_inferno

I had heard there were plans or at least intentions to re-build the Anglesea stand?

If space was used very efficiently they could have a nice compact ground with mabey even an increase in capacity to 20k.

durkadurka

22k apparently but they haven't applied for planning yet. Money could be a problem

ambid

spank_inferno wrote: »

I had heard there were plans or at least intentions to re-build the Anglesea stand?

If space was used very efficiently they could have a nice compact ground with mabey even an increase in capacity to 20k.

durkadurka wrote: »

22k apparently but they haven't applied for planning yet. Money could be a problem

Why though? Leinster hardly ever sell out the RDS so why add more capacity? Average attendance for the past couple of seasons (excluding one off Aviva games) has been around 15,500 so I'm not sure why we'd need extra capacity.

I guess the Anglesea is pretty delapidated so needs some work, and many of the facilities in the stadium are poor, but it doesn't seem a priority. I'd worry about making infrastructure commitments with the economy such a disaster. I wonder will we maintain the current level of success and interest when BOD retires in a couple of years?

Podge_irl

ambid wrote: »

Why though? Leinster hardly ever sell out the RDS so why add more capacity?

Leinster are very close to, or possibly reached, the maximum number of season tickets they can sell due to space restrictions in the RDS.

Besides, it's future-proofing.

Superbus

ambid wrote: »

I wonder will we maintain the current level of success and interest when BOD retires in a couple of years?

I don't think all interest in Leinster Rugby rests on BOD's shoulders.

ambid

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leinster are very close to, or possibly reached, the maximum number of season tickets they can sell due to space restrictions in the RDS.

Besides, it's future-proofing.

Superbus wrote: »

I don't think all interest in Leinster Rugby rests on BOD's shoulders.

Fair enough... I bow to your optimism!

hardCopy

Superbus wrote: »

ambid wrote: »

I wonder will we maintain the current level of success and interest when BOD retires in a couple of years?

I don't think all interest in Leinster Rugby rests on BOD's shoulders.

Sure we have SOB to look forward to for many years