quality differences

Dr_H_Lecter

maybe a bit noobish to ask ...but...

is there really THAT big a difference in quality between the high-enders like tokyomarui etc and the clones, jg, dboys etc.

i know theres a BIG difference in price.

ambro25

Yes.

Some of what makes the difference is a direct contributing factor for the price hike: materials, QA, aftersales care etc.

Some of what makes the difference is an indirect factor for the price hike: peace of mind as to reliability, performance, etc.

There are no n00b questions: just a neverending stream of fellow airsofters who are finding their feet in the hobby

Stercus Accidit

Dr_H_Lecter wrote: »

maybe a bit noobish to ask ...but...

is there really THAT big a difference in quality between the high-enders like tokyomarui etc and the clones, jg, dboys etc.

i know theres a BIG difference in price.

Generally yes, but clones are getting more reliable, and are very usable at skirmishes.

Really the fit and finish of high enders is better but the clones do the job, and in some of them very well.

I dont think I'll ever buy a brand new high ender, as I enjoy working on and improving a lower end aeg, and some of the clones, with a tiny bit of money put into them, will out perform alot of other more expensive aegs.

ED E

Motosam wrote: »

Generally yes, but clones are getting more reliable, and are very usable at skirmishes.

Really the fit and finish of high enders is better but the clones do the job, and in some of them very well.

I dont think I'll ever buy a brand new high ender, as I enjoy working on and improving a lower end aeg, and some of the clones, with a tiny bit of money put into them, will out perform alot of other more expensive aegs.

Very true. A great thing about clones is that many of them have full metal gearboxes where they're TM/CA ect counterparts don't. That meanse you can up the power without worrying that the gears will rip themselves apart.

Masada

personally id say the difference is a lot lower than a lot of people believe, the finish on the higher end stuff is no doubt a lot better but they dont always out perform the clones at all, a lot of the TM stuff only chrono's at around 270 and when you take into concideration the amount of effort in stripping that and fitting a better spring, you can buy a clone for a third of the price and add a lot of upgrades for far less money and the same work as upgrading the TM.,.,

Arcto

I dont trust clones. What if they clone me!!!

There is quiet a large difference allright between the high end and clones.

If anyones up at GTAC ask martin to show you his rental spetznats. There clones (i think....) but i was very suprised at how well put together they were. Metal bodies, solid feel and generally looked well. ROF was a bit low and there was shag all markings but you could etch those yourself. Half thinking of getting one at some point. Nice CQB gun.

ambro25

vtec wrote: »

personally id say the difference is a lot lower than a lot of people believe, the finish on the higher end stuff is no doubt a lot better but they dont always out perform the clones at all, a lot of the TM stuff only chrono's at around 270 and when you take into concideration the amount of effort in stripping that and fitting a better spring, you can buy a clone for a third of the price and add a lot of upgrades for far less money and the same work as upgrading the TM.,.,

Dare I point out that clones are called "clones" because they are... erm... indeed, clones of the high-end kit: it's no harder to upgrade the high-end kit, than the cloned kit (which is why most all parts are completely interchangeable)

As for the talk of performance, I must admit to being a bit baffled by it: what's the "performance" of an AEG?

The FPS? Clones generally hit harder (in fact that's an increasing problem for us '1-joulers'), true, but the internals have long proven shorter-lived for that same reason.

I'd venture that FPS isn't really that relevant so long as the only site to practice is HRTA: short range, open field. You wouldn't want 250 FPS with 0.12 (:D) or even 0.20, but >300 isn't indispensible to have a good game (IMHO), unless maybe you're sniping.

Of course, clones have had their GB progressively reinforced lately, most probably to accomodate the high 'native' FPS. Whereby of course, downgrading them to a 1J output, whilst conserving the reinforced GB = longer-lasting internals (on paper). But they're still known for their QA issues, no point putting head in the sand about it: look at the grade-A f*ck up that is the Galaxy MP7 :eek:

The ROF? That's battery territory, mostly, not the AEG's internals (until those are upgraded... but then it makes no odds whether it's hi-end or clone)

What else after that?

[preventive]I own/use both hi-end and clones, and speaking of Galaxy, I've just re-bought a '5K from Keith, so... can't exactly call me biased, can ye? [/preventive]

Arcto

You cant just throw a bigger battery into any AEG to get a higher ROF.

Youll tear the gears asunder!

Gotten himmel!

Masada

ambro25 wrote: »

Dare I point out that clones are called "clones" because they are... erm... indeed, clones of the high-end kit: it's no harder to upgrade the high-end kit than the cloned kit (which is why most all parts are completely interchangeable)

exactly my point though ambro, it will require the same amount of work to upgrade the spring in a TM as it would to but a clone, and a load if upgrades and fit them, having essentially a better gun in the end at a fraction of the cost,

ambro25 wrote: »

As for the talk of performance, I must admit to being a bit baffled by it: what's the "performance" of an AEG?

The FPS? Clones generally hit harder (in fact that's an increasing problem for us '1-joulers'), true, but internals are shorter-lived for that same reason. I'd venture that FPS isn't really that relevant so long as the only site to practice is HRTA: short range, open field

to be honest this is the bit that a lot of people over rate in my opinion. all AEGs can break, and the most important thing is to maintain the properly and they will last, some of the clones are complete sh*t but others are great, look at my JG G36 for instance, ive been running it on a 10.8 battery for a few weeks now without a hitch, i bought the gun, shims and metal bearings for under 150 and its way better than most G36c's ive come across, so much so that ive been asked to do the same to other peoples G36's, including the CA which as ya know isnt a clone,
i even bought a set of upgraded gears for the G36 after i upgraded it the last time and its working so well at the moment that im just not bothered stripping it and fitting them.

oh, and poor "crazy rabbit" is after being through 2 or 3 sets of gears on his TM.,;)

CrazyRabbit

High-end brand AEG's's break...clones break. The quality between the two is getting more blurred imho. I've had 2 fairly new'ish TM AEG's strip their gears, and the TM G3-SG1 was squeeky out of the box.

If you are not too worried about small appearance issues, I'd go with a clone and perhaps spend a little extra to upgrade the gearbox with sytema gears. Should last longer and still be a little cheaper that the high end AEG's.

Of course, perhaps I'm just unlucky...

Spetzcong

Stop me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Classic Army originally a clone brand, but the quality of their stuff got so good that they're now considered high end (and have a price tag to match)?

My point is though, that any of the clone brands could end up doing something similar. If the quality of their stuff gets consistant and good enough then in a few years time we might be looking at JG's in the same way as we look at CA and TM today.

I wouldn't necessarilly write off any AEG because it's a clone, nor would I presume that just because an AEG was high end that it was better. You've got to take each gun as it comes really, although you do get more consistancy with high end retailers.

ambro25

vtec, I agree wholeheartedly about ACM stuff improving all the time.

My TM 552, which is mechanically the same as your JG G36 (which is the same as a TM G36... and again the same as a JG 552 ), cost me $245 landed. That's a hair above the €150 figure you quoted.

I've seen and touched the JG 552 version, and it's a pretty darn close one, let me tell you. But to my mind, not enough to make me 'regret' going the hi-end way. That said, having done the same hand-in-hand comparison with a '5K between a TM and a Galaxy, I'd have been well p*ssed to buy the TM one instead of the Galaxy one.

But you see, that's eactly my point, for the clone stuff: it's still very much a question of "which model" by "which manufacturer". Not a factor with the hi-end.

o1s1n

If we're talking just exterior aesthetics, then the high enders do usually have a much nicer finish. It's where all the extra money goes. Better plastics, alluminium, better seams, better moulds etc.

I've yet to see a clone that has an exterior finish I'd be happy with. I have to admit, some of the JGs are coming close..but they're not quite there yet. I would imagine some day they will be though.

That's not to say ALL Tokyo Marui AEGs have a nice finish. Many don't. Especially the older models. Some of which you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the clone, say JG and TM.

Don't trust crazy by the way. He has a TM g3-sg1. Which is a REALLY old piece and not nearly as nice as some of the newer TM models.

c-90

high end models are always going to be better quality thats why they are "high end" but paying over 200 for a toy gun isnt worth it when there is usually a good quality clone available and 1 is never enough a lot of people end up having 3 or 4 high end guns they dont use

ED E

Oi, ambro! No mentioning that three letter mini-AEG. It puts me into depression:( Stupid Pile of re-processed excrement!:mad:

Puding

There no really right or wrong, and i depends what you want , i myself buy a large number of high end as i like the collection side more, where as if your looking just to play then a lot of clones have excellent internals and will do the job at are power level just as well as most high ends.

Bellow are 2 m4s both have the same performance one cost 100euros one cost 300euros. Its not about the performance to be its about an accurate replica but that is me.

ED E

Puding wrote: »

There no really right or wrong, and i depends what you want , i myself buy a large number of high end as i like the collection side more, where as if your looking just to play then a lot of clones have excellent internals and will do the job at are power level just as well as most high ends.

Bellow are 2 m4s both have the same performance one cost 100euros one cost 300euros. Its not about the performance to be its about an accurate replica but that is me.

You forgot the pics :P

Fallschirmjager

Dr_H_Lecter wrote: »

maybe a bit noobish to ask ...but...

is there really THAT big a difference in quality between the high-enders like tokyomarui etc and the clones, jg, dboys etc.

i know theres a BIG difference in price.

heres the decider...ready....





how much money do you have to spend?

o1s1n

c-90 wrote: »

but paying over 200 for a toy gun isnt worth it when there is usually a good quality clone available and 1 is never enough a lot of people end up having 3 or 4 high end guns they dont use

You can say that about a whole range of things. Why pay over 500 on a guitar when you can get one that works for 150? Why pay X for anything when you can get something cheaper that does a similar job?

Some people like their equipment to be of higher quality. It just feels better in your hands.

I prefer full metal AEGs myself. To get one of a decent quality you usually have to pay a bit extra.

Stercus Accidit

The latest dboys aks are up to vfc and ca looks wise.

o1s1n

Motosam wrote: »

The latest dboys aks are up to vfc and ca looks wise.

Indeed. Seems like great value for money.

Puding

Looks next to each other in a photo yes but pick them up and in the flesh there is a large difference in feel and the fit, but there excellent value for money if you don;t worry about that and just want something to play airsoft with, each to there own i always say, But there is no hard and fast there are clones that are excellent as we as there are high ends that you would need your head seeing to there that bad if you got them.

c-90

o1s1n wrote: »

You can say that about a whole range of things. Why pay over 500 on a guitar when you can get one that works for 150? Why pay X for anything when you can get something cheaper that does a similar job?

Some people like their equipment to be of higher quality. It just feels better in your hands.

I prefer full metal AEGs myself. To get one of a decent quality you usually have to pay a bit extra.

it depends on how serious you are into the sport. maybe its just because im a cheap culchie but i would always opt for the cheaper option unless there was a significant quality diference

CrazyRabbit

o1s1n wrote: »

Don't trust crazy by the way. He has a TM g3-sg1. Which is a REALLY old piece and not nearly as nice as some of the newer TM models.

That's quite true. Now that I think of it, the G3-SG1 is one of their older models. It's known for a having a few problems alright. Nothing major though.

Puding

it depends on how serious you are into the sport. maybe its just because im a cheap culchie but i would always opt for the cheaper option unless there was a significant quality diference

and in airsoft do you look for quality as in performance, or quality as in accurate finish/marking etc etc?

Stercus Accidit

Puding wrote: »

Looks next to each other in a photo yes but pick them up and in the flesh there is a large difference in feel and the fit, but there excellent value for money if you don;t worry about that and just want something to play airsoft with, each to there own i always say, But there is no hard and fast there are clones that are excellent as we as there are high ends that you would need your head seeing to there that bad if you got them.

Not a bit of it, held fiachs vfc, and his brothers dboys, and I could not tell.

They are very good, I cant wait for mine.

Dboys have seriously stepped their game up.

c-90

Puding wrote: »

and in airsoft do you look for quality as in performance, or quality as in accurate finish/marking etc etc?

personly performance but its always a plus to have nice markings

Puding

Well i have them both next to me and you can pick them up and tell the difference right away but like i said its me, think that bother me do not bother others, i for example have heated debates about him and his car i can get my head around how much he does and spends on that.

Stercus Accidit

Puding wrote: »

Well i have them both next to me and you can pick them up and tell the difference right away but like i said its me, think that bother me do not bother others, i for example have heated debates about him and his car i can get my head around how much he does and spends on that.

ca or vfc?

As far as i could see, only the grain was different.

What in particular gives it away?

Puding

personly performance but its always a plus to have nice markings

where as i go for accuracy first and then sort out performance latter on, this topics are kinda tasty as they make it out there is a 'correct' answer there is not

dboys m4

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star m4

bugger king

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the ritz

ferrari

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honda

ryanair

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British airways

Masada

honda's are more reliable than ferrari.,:p

Stercus Accidit

vtec wrote: »

honda's are more reliable than ferrari.,:p

Damn right, dont get me started, I could have written a book back in my heyday on engineering standards and trends in the motoring industry.

Edit: would have been terrible nonsense though

Puding

vfc, for me the differances are things like, the feel, pistol grip texture, quality of the finish, qaulity of the metal, when you pull the bolt cover back it has a lot of play on the dboys with the vfc it goes back smooth no play stuff like that, the fit of the items, but thats me others would not care about any of that.

Puding

Motosam wrote: »

Damn right, dont get me started, I could have written a book back in my heyday on engineering standards and trends in the motoring industry.

Edit: would have been terrible nonsense though

i agree thats the point for me with that one :P to me a car is a car its a tool to get from one place to another for others there something completely different :P

Stercus Accidit

Puding wrote: »

vfc, for me the differances are things like, the feel, pistol grip texture, quality of the finish, qaulity of the metal, when you pull the bolt cover back it has a lot of play on the dboys with the vfc it goes back smooth no play stuff like that, the fit of the items, but thats me others would not care about any of that.

I like to have accurately reproduced replicas myself too, cant stand plastic where there should be metal, and just plain inaccuracy of reproduction does my head in.

The metal can be whatever it wants as long as it looks good and is cold to the touch.

I really like your collection of ak's, most people dont know the varients that well and will buy ak spetznaz's and tac aks :eek: horrible.