Arachnophobia - phobia or natural aversion?

Weidii

I've been reading some of the other threads in this forum and it seems as though alot of people suffer from arachnophobia.

Humans originated in Africa, a continent which is home to dangerous spiders, snakes and various other critters. What I'm proposing is that perhaps the fear of spiders, when looked at from an evolutionary point of view, is not so irrational. It woud have been an advantage to be afraid of spiders when living in an area where they are a threat to your life. Being afraid of something small makes sense, as you will go out of your way not to encounter one.

It's similar to the way mice are afraid of cats. True - cats are large and there's no waya mouse could physically tackle one, but what I'm saying is that it's natural to fear something that could be a threat.

Perhaps arachnophobia is a trait which has been passed down, which can crop up if triggered by encounters with spiders.

watna

I actually heard a programme on the radio about this a few years ago (back in the day when i listened to the radio!) that said that humans (it may have been mammals) have 4 naturaly fears that are inbuilt in our biology. Snakes and spiders were two of them. i can't remember the rest but I must go do some research now and see can i find something on it online. It's very interesting. I think they are inbuilt in us (although I'm not really scared of spiders or snakes - they're not my favourite things in the world though)

LadyJ

Yes, I have always thought that being afriad of spiders was an evloutionary advantage. Makes sense. That's why I am always quite apprehensive about calling it a phobia. I suppose it is irrational to be afraid of small, harmless spiders but natural enough to run away from the larger, potentially dangerous ones.

Weidii

The thing about it is, in the wild we wouldn't have known what was dangerous and what wasn't (even small spiders can be dangerous in Africa, Australia, etc) so it would have been more advantageous to just be afraid of everything.

I'm not afraid of spiders or any animals really, but that's because I have conditioned myself not to. Of course I still cringe when I'm lifting a spider out of the bath, but I know in Ireland it's not going to hurt me.

That point about the four fears is interesting, I'd like to find out more about it.

watna

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16296

Here's a discussion about it. Some interesting points.

Bottle_of_Smoke

It seems pretty possible. However people don't have the same fear of lions/tigers etc & they would have been much bigger threat than spiders.

Also, I'm not afraid of spiders/ Most people aren't. Surely there'd be more people afaid if it was a just a genetic thing.

Lobster

I'm not so sure, I'm very afraid of spiders. I do a lot of SCUBA diving, I am not afraid of any crabs except the spider crab, which would be one of the less harmful of crabs here. I think its an image thing for me or maybe the word "Spider"? I wonder would things be different if it were called something else other than Spider Crab?

Weidii

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It seems pretty possible. However people don't have the same fear of lions/tigers etc & they would have been much bigger threat than spiders.

The reason I think the "phobia" or underlying fear of encountering a spider might have been advantageous is because spiders are significantly smaller than lions and tigers. It's easy to see when you're walking into a Lions territory, but you might not notice a spider til it has bitten you. (My dad experienced this in Australia, one night he noticed a huge puss covered blister on the back of his leg, turns out he was bitten by a spider)

I think the fear of big cats is more a case of if you saw one in the wild you'd run for dear life, there'd definately be a reason to fear one upon encounter. Whereas with spiders it's best to avoid them because you might not notice them.

Also, I'm not afraid of spiders/ Most people aren't. Surely there'd be more people afaid if it was a just a genetic thing.

Yeah, well I'm suggesting that perhaps a phobia of spiders might be a recessive trait that perhaps can be triggered in childhood in people who carry the gene. Living anywhere where poisonous spiders are not a threat (as we have done for a long time now) means that this trait is no longer advantageous, so it will fizzle away with time. I'm just suggesting that perhaps it's still fizzling :P

I think when most people see a spider they wouldn't want to pick it up or to have it climb on them. I know the odd person might be born without the natural fear of spiders, but I'd say most people convince themselves throughout life that they're no danger.

CO19

Read below before opening the attachment.

"They run 10 mph, jump three feet, are a nocturnal spider, so only
come out at night unless they are in shade. When they bite you, you
are injected with Novocain so you go numb instantly. You don't even
know you are bitten when you are sleeping, so you wake up with part
of your leg or arm missing because it has been gnawing on it all
night long. If you are walking around and you bump something that is
casting a shadow over it, and the sun makes contact with it, you
better run. It will instantly run for your shadow, and scream the
whole time it is chasing you. PS.

The one on the bottom is eating the one on the top. These are
Spiders found daily in IRAQ by troops. Imagine waking up and seeing
one of these in your tent !!"

I think these things are more than enough reason to stay afraid of them

Weidii

CO19 wrote: »

I think these things are more than enough reason to stay afraid of them

Here here, know the species?

worben

Camel spider.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bugs/camelspider.asp

LadyJ

You guys could be linking to porn and I would be none the wiser! I can't even look at spider pictures! It's awful!

Rossibaby

lol that is huge,didnt know spiders could be that size

Lobster

Rossibaby wrote: »

lol that is huge,didnt know spiders could be that size

They aren't really that big, nevertheless I wont sleep tonight:mad:

Weidii

I think seeing this picture really enforces the original point I was making. I'm not someone who's afraid of spiders, but seeing that one made my gut move. It's a really deep seeded and primal fear.

unreggd

try a goliath!

size of a dinner plate and they eat birds!!



I think fear of spiders also comes from people around you puttin it into your head as a child

Weidii

unreggd wrote: »

I think fear of spiders also comes from people around you puttin it into your head as a child

Interesting point. Perhaps it's learned behaviour that's simply been passed down from the original person who was bitten (or more likely who saw someone being bitten) by a dangerous spider.

Dashticle

Weidii wrote: »

Interesting point. Perhaps it's learned behaviour that's simply been passed down from the original person who was bitten (or more likely who saw someone being bitten) by a dangerous spider.

I agree with this. A few years ago, I would pick up large huntsman(sp?) spiders with my barehands to throw them out of the bath or whatever, or sometimes just to freak people out. Now, while I would still do it, I feel a little more anxious, and I'd chalk that up to being around people who share the fear of spiders.

LadyJ

I think a lot can be said for learned behaviour. I remember my mother used to be terrified of dogs and would freak out if we had to pass by one on the road. For years I was really scared of them as well but then I realised that I was only mimicking her reaction.

Weidii

Dashticle wrote: »

I agree with this. A few years ago, I would pick up large huntsman(sp?) spiders with my barehands to throw them out of the bath or whatever, or sometimes just to freak people out. Now, while I would still do it, I feel a little more anxious, and I'd chalk that up to being around people who share the fear of spiders.

Yes, same here, I would have picked up spiders in school to save them from the lads squashing them, but being around my sis (who is terrified of them) has made me a little more nervous. I'd still pick 'em up, but I'd definately have to get my head around it first.

LadyJ wrote: »

I think a lot can be said for learned behaviour. I remember my mother used to be terrified of dogs and would freak out if we had to pass by one on the road. For years I was really scared of them as well but then I realised that I was only mimicking her reaction.

Yeah, alot can be said for learned behaviour alright. It's something very valuable when it comes to survival. Children really soak up everything their parents say, for example: Mammy says " don't cross that river, there are crocodiles in it" so baby hopefully will keep this in mind and never cross that river.
I wonder can this sort of behaviour be learned from sources such as the media, movies, etc too?

LadyJ

Well....Jurassic Park did make me afraid of dinosaurs.....

NonDrinkersClub

I was never afraid of spiders until we were taught to be afraid of them while living in Australia as a kid. I suppose I've always been told that there are poisonous spiders in Ireland that come in with the fruit. Spiders don't really scare me but I suppose I'm overly careful around them, especially colourful or abnormally big ones. Makes perfect sense I think.

watna

NonDrinkersClub wrote: »

I was never afraid of spiders until we were taught to be afraid of them while living in Australia as a kid. I suppose I've always been told that there are poisonous spiders in Ireland that come in with the fruit. Spiders don't really scare me but I suppose I'm overly careful around them, especially colourful or abnormally big ones. Makes perfect sense I think.

It does make perfect sense I suppose. My OH is terrifed of spiders but he grew up in South Africa so he always says he has a reason for being scared. But what about people who grew up in Ireland and are scared of spiders. There's no reason for that, unless it's in our genes from the time that men originated in Africa.

rain on

I'm scared ****less of spiders. I remember being a very young child and not being afraid of them, but one walked down my arm one day and I didn't like when it stepped off my sleeve and on to my skin, and I've been afraid of them ever since. (I don't remember the arm thing but my mother told me about it.)

Anything over about half an inch across scares the crap out of me, as do plastic spiders, pictures of spiders, crabs and octopuses.

bronte

I'm terrified of them
A few days ago I noticed a raised itchy bump or two on my arm..my mum said "Have you been bitten by anything?" and immediately my skin crawled.
I've always been afraid since a little girl, and won't sleep in a room where I've seen one!
I wouldn't be able to look at the pics posted without staying awake all night.
There is a plastic spider on a shelf in my room that even freaks me out, even though it's plastic!

seamus

I would imagine that on the whole, people are generally apprehensive of spiders. But to say that arachnaphobia is a natural aversion I think underestimates the power of the phobia. Arachnaphobes would be excessively terrified - running out of the room screaming or completely freezing with terror on the spot.

Hiding behind your other half while they catch it with a jar, is not arachnaphobia

LadyJ

seamus wrote: »

I would imagine that on the whole, people are generally apprehensive of spiders. But to say that arachnaphobia is a natural aversion I think underestimates the power of the phobia. Arachnaphobes would be excessively terrified - running out of the room screaming or completely freezing with terror on the spot.

Hiding behind your other half while they catch it with a jar, is not arachnaphobia

Yeah this is true. I can't even move when I see a spider. I loose the ability to speak. It's just complete, inexplicable terror so maybe there is a border between what is innate and what is irrational.

FruitLover

While there may be evolutionary reasons for fear of spiders, the actual phobia is a different thing. I don't have a phobia of heights, but if I'm standing near the edge of a tall roof, then I feel a little nervous (sensible fear). This is different from the discomfort I feel around spiders (and I mean small Irish wolf spiders, never mind dangerous ones)

CCCP^

I'm very scared of Spiders, when I see one I try to leave it alone but if its in my room it has to die. I can't look at a picture of one or look at it on TV. It's the way they move about. They thought of that Camel spider, jesus....it screams AND ****ing eats you, thats terrifying! I pity those poor ****ing bastards in Iraq, really I do.

Weidii

FruitLover wrote: »

if I'm standing near the edge of a tall roof, then I feel a little nervous (sensible fear). This is different from the discomfort I feel around spiders

Yeah, good point. Perhaps the difference lies in the fact that the height can't "come after" you, if you get what I mean. I think there may be a greater natural fear associated with creatures as they can move towards you.

IamMetaldave

Sorry to drag up an old post, but there's a few things in here I wanted to say / ask about..

Number one is this -

FruitLover wrote: »

This is different from the discomfort I feel around spiders (and I mean small Irish wolf spiders, never mind dangerous ones)

Irish Wolf Spiders? I'm not liking the sounds of them..

I'm a crazy arachnophobia.. Started when i was a kid playing out the back garden and lifted a rock, next thing I know I'm head to toe covered in woodlice.. spiders.. all sorts.. anyway, it has left me absolutely intolerable of the little fellas.. In fact reading this thread has givin me that, crawling all over sensation..

Funny story though, recently I was in Prague, and myself and my girlfriend found this little pet shop.. And low and behold, there a Tarantula in a box, so I had to have a look.. I got pretty close to! Although he had his back to me and was what looked like, very much asleep!

I've always had a fascination with them, probably because they are they only thing I fear.. I try to watch videos on youtube and documentarys to help get round it... but no good..

Out of all spiders that I've come across, the standard house spider gets me the most... it's the way they move! It makes my skin crawl!

watna

A girl at work was telling me today about her fear of spiders. She used to be terrified. She had planned to go travellnig to South American and Australia and was getting so frightened fo teh spider thing she was considering cancelling her trip. She went to 6 sessions of hypnotherapy. She said she's still scared of them but not to the point where it stops her from doing things. She said she used to be afraid to sit on garden furniture because of spiders! She still freaks out if she sees one but is better than she was.

I thought that was interesting anyway. A positive(ish) experience with hypnotherapy and arachnophobia.

IamMetaldave

Fair play to her.. I'm always trying to get my head around it.. but I can't.

Louise88

watna wrote: »

A girl at work was telling me today about her fear of spiders. She used to be terrified. She had planned to go travellnig to South American and Australia and was getting so frightened fo teh spider thing she was considering cancelling her trip. She went to 6 sessions of hypnotherapy. She said she's still scared of them but not to the point where it stops her from doing things. She said she used to be afraid to sit on garden furniture because of spiders! She still freaks out if she sees one but is better than she was.

I thought that was interesting anyway. A positive(ish) experience with hypnotherapy and arachnophobia.

I'm totally with her on that, when peole are having BBQs I'm the one sitting inside because I'm too afraid to sit on patio furniture. I've had to run around to my aunt's house to shower if there's a spider in the bathroom! Hynotherapy sounds interesting, I've tried it for other things but it hasn't worked for me
Fair play to her for not letting it stop her travelling!

Weidii

seamus wrote: »

I would imagine that on the whole, people are generally apprehensive of spiders. But to say that arachnaphobia is a natural aversion I think underestimates the power of the phobia. Arachnaphobes would be excessively terrified - running out of the room screaming or completely freezing with terror on the spot.

Hiding behind your other half while they catch it with a jar, is not arachnaphobia

Yeah, I understand that a phobia is an excess of unnecessary fear, but if you were living in a country which was home to dangerous spiders, the phobia might actually prove useful.

When I was a child my family went to Australia. Now my dad is definately not an arachnophobe, but he doesn't like spiders, if you know what I mean. (kinda the same as your "hiding behind your other half") While we were there he sat on a park bench and was bitten by a white tail spider. Thus a fear (as oposed to a phobia) of the creature wasn't enough to avoid running into trouble with one, whereas someone who had arachnophobia probably wouldn't have sat there at all. So in a sense it's "useful", if you know what I mean.

I suppose what I'm wondering is, because this phobia can be useful does it still count as irrational fear?

Kenmare

CO19 wrote: »

Read below before opening the attachment.

"They run 10 mph, jump three feet, are a nocturnal spider, so only
come out at night unless they are in shade. When they bite you, you
are injected with Novocain so you go numb instantly. You don't even
know you are bitten when you are sleeping, so you wake up with part
of your leg or arm missing because it has been gnawing on it all
night long. If you are walking around and you bump something that is
casting a shadow over it, and the sun makes contact with it, you
better run. It will instantly run for your shadow, and scream the
whole time it is chasing you. PS.

The one on the bottom is eating the one on the top. These are
Spiders found daily in IRAQ by troops. Imagine waking up and seeing
one of these in your tent !!"

I think these things are more than enough reason to stay afraid of them

dude please no Im thinking of joining the army, and seeing those really dosent help.

.45 ftw!

AlexBM

Interesting! I cringed when I saw that photo. Ugh. I don't mind spiders too much - I held a tarantula once, years ago - but I still have some sort of aversion to them, especially when I find them in the bath (WHY do they congregate there? Is is some sort of secret spider society?) I cant really explain why. Maybe the tarantula didn't seem all that real to me (although it was moving slightly). Or maybe it's the idea that I might not notice a smaller one crawling all over me.

I'm so glad to read that Snopes link, and see that camel spiders aren't as bad as they're made out to be. Bad enough, though.

I'm getting that tickly feeling all over me now, and I'm just off to bed. Possibly to sleep with the light on so that I can see any creepy crawlies, should they decide to appear. For safety's sake, I think I'd better bring my cat with me too. Just in case.

tinkerbell

I am terrified of spiders, I can't stand them. If they are anywhere near me I can't be in that room and my other half has to remove them. I also get night terrors about spiders covering the ceiling or sometimes I'll wake up and think I'm covered in spiders because my hair has gone on my face - I have long hair so I think that there's hundreds of spiders on my face! I really should tie my hair back before going to bed! It hasn't happened in a while though since.

Everybody who knows me knows that I am terrified as does my whole office at work. However that didn't stop one insensitive git walking over to me one day with a cup in his hand and says "here you go" and puts it near my face. Inside is a frigging massive spider (well massive to me anyway, the big Irish spiders!), I start screaming my head off, everybody on the floor turns to look, I have never been more mortified in all my life and then I started bawling my eyes out. Wasn't so funny then to the onlookers when the tears came, I was shaking so much. I never forgave him for it and told him to get the hell away from me, haven't really spoken to him since. I'd say you could've heard the screams from outer space they were so loud.

JcDubz4life

CO19 wrote: »

Read below before opening the attachment.

"They run 10 mph, jump three feet, are a nocturnal spider, so only
come out at night unless they are in shade. When they bite you, you
are injected with Novocain so you go numb instantly. You don't even
know you are bitten when you are sleeping, so you wake up with part
of your leg or arm missing because it has been gnawing on it all
night long. If you are walking around and you bump something that is
casting a shadow over it, and the sun makes contact with it, you
better run. It will instantly run for your shadow, and scream the
whole time it is chasing you. PS.

The one on the bottom is eating the one on the top. These are
Spiders found daily in IRAQ by troops. Imagine waking up and seeing
one of these in your tent !!"

I think these things are more than enough reason to stay afraid of them

Eh can we maybe have a warning or somrthing abousuch eh...graphic descriptions please. I have not to bad arachniphoobia but reading the first two lines of that still made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up im sure there are a lot of people here with a serious phobia who really dont need that.

dont even wanna think about what the picture might be....

watna

JcDubz4life wrote: »

Eh can we maybe have a warning or somrthing abousuch eh...graphic descriptions please. I have not to bad arachniphoobia but reading the first two lines of that still made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up im sure there are a lot of people here with a serious phobia who really dont need that.

dont even wanna think about what the picture might be....

As you can see from the charter we have asked posters to avoid posting graphic (and remember what may be funny to you could terrify someone else) pictures and if you really really feel you have to, to post a warning.

IMO, the poster above did ask people to read the text before opening any pictures, which I think is warning enough. However, I suppose the text itself could freak people out so I'll add a warning to the thread.

In future it might be a good idea to report a post (it's the triangle with the exclamation mark in it) if you feel it is not suitable or too graphic. That way one of the mods will get a reported post and no threads will be dragged off topic. Spanks!

The Bollox

I hear the fear of spiders came from the dark ages, because spiders were blamed for the Black Death

xIsabelx

A guy I work with is doing a masters in Psychology and he was telling me that out of 236 fears, only one isn't learned...a fear of needles/blood.


I have been absolutely petrified of spiders ever since I was a wee one. I can't think of any occasion that made me terrified, unless it was something that happened years ago and I was too young to remember.

But I am so scared of spiders. I can't look at pictures of them, I have near panic attacks when there's one in my room and I certainly don't ever plan on watching any documentaries about them on YouTube or National Geo.

I went into the pet shop on Parnell st with my boyfriend one time and I really wanted to be able to face my fear. We went downstairs and I wanted to look at the tarantulas. But I was standing so far away from it, I could barely make it out. Even so, I was so nervous that I was sweating and all.

Would LOVE to try and conqour my irrational fear, but I'm afraid that would involve looking at a spider somewhere along the way :P

AlexBM

xIsabelx wrote: »

A guy I work with is doing a masters in Psychology and he was telling me that out of 236 fears, only one isn't learned...a fear of needles/blood.

What do you mean by isn't learned?

Edit: ah! do you mean it's instinctive?

xIsabelx

Yeah, like the learned phobias are when you're most likely afraid of whatever it is because of a bad experience you had.

stewiegriffin08

okay, I do have a fear... phobia I think, not sure.. but its pretty bad, but I can watch the, on tv or that... anyway
After reading this thread today.... Went about as normal, convincing myself about it... no harm all that...


Tonight, 5 mins ago I was sitting on my bed with my laptop, just surfing away.... must have fallen from the roof.... not really big ... more ugly looking spider fell or appeared on my bed beside me... I noticed first thing I done was instantly whack him away with my hand... and then he landed on my locker beside my bed and i killed it within 2 seconds... with a sock :rolleyes:

Usually I would panic, leave the room.... not sleep until area was clear...

But I wasnt too bad... killed it and just lay back on laptop, a bit weary.. but ok

Within 4 seconds of the whole thing he was dead, before I knew it... must be a natural reaction for me.. I didnt even think about it till he was dead

Im sort of proud, not panicing as much... but still a long way to go :P

watna

stewiegriffin08 wrote: »

okay, I do have a fear... phobia I think, not sure.. but its pretty bad, but I can watch the, on tv or that... anyway
After reading this thread today.... Went about as normal, convincing myself about it... no harm all that...


Tonight, 5 mins ago I was sitting on my bed with my laptop, just surfing away.... must have fallen from the roof.... not really big ... more ugly looking spider fell or appeared on my bed beside me... I noticed first thing I done was instantly whack him away with my hand... and then he landed on my locker beside my bed and i killed it within 2 seconds... with a sock :rolleyes:

Usually I would panic, leave the room.... not sleep until area was clear...

But I wasnt too bad... killed it and just lay back on laptop, a bit weary.. but ok

Within 4 seconds of the whole thing he was dead, before I knew it... must be a natural reaction for me.. I didnt even think about it till he was dead

Im sort of proud, not panicing as much... but still a long way to go :P

That's great, well done you!

wimmy

I'm scared ****less of spiders. On TV, on pictures, or worse in my house...Can't deal with them. I had an invasion last year living in a small
old cottage, at least 5 everyday, and huge.
I manage to kill them from far away (with a brush) but I just can't
be surprised by them crawling all of a sudden, I have to leave the room.
Those spiders are the second fastest running in the world, and are common to France, UK and Ireland etc etc. They're called the giganteaor Giant House Spider and the biggest ones I found were the size of my hand (no i'm not hallucinating or exaggerating).
I don't want to experience that same invasion (usually when they grow adult, by end of August and throughout Sept) and just bought one of those:
http://www.nauticalia.com/uk-info/tools_and_gadgets/on_board_boatyard_garage/spider_repeller/3128.html?cele=1
I actually got it today so I'll let you know if it works!

x-xRaCheLx-x

im getting nervous, twitchy and my skin is crawling even reading this forum... I cant look at pictures of spiders, cant even look at cartoon spiders (yknow the episode of the simpsons where bart is merged with the fly, its a treehouse of horror ep., anyway bart the fly gets caught in a web and a spider moves up to try and eat him, I CANT EVEN WATCH THAT) and even the tops of cherry tomatoes on the floor from a distance look like spiders... i approach them with a brush like...spiders absolutley terrify me... my OH picks them up (big or small) and lets them run up and down his arm... I have to leave the room! Ooooh they're awful.... so many legs...:(

Geo08

I have a terrible fear of those little critters. When I was a child one hot summer in london my window didnt fully close, I was at the top of the house - they must have been in the gutter & woke up one night to find hundreds (seemed like it :rolleyes:) of those penny spiders crawling over my duvet :eek:

I woke the whole house up screaming like nothing any of my family have heard!! None of them have a prob with spiders & was told I would be fine in that room. Next night, same thing and heypresto a fear of spiders.... my parents still live in that house, but I changed rooms!!

I've had a few unwelcome end of summer visitors here the last few years & the worst thing is after the initial shock of seeing them, when u do pluck the courage up to throw something at it they move so quickly oh their horrible I spent several hours one night with a hover & moving lots of things in my room trying to make sure I could get it so I could sleep in peace & not with one eye open!!

Last year in usa deep south, i was travelling with a group of ppl. A scorpion wondered by (very slow moving) we all stood around it taking pictures, much the same when a large snake was spotted in another location. However, when a black widow was noted hanging out at the enterance to the ladies loo (campsite) NONE of us went near those toilets!!!

Eugh horrible little buggers.

garylarson

I'm not sure if I have a spider phobia or not, I can talk about spiders and my fear of them quite rationally yet when I see one I'm gone! me-shaped hole in the wall stylee, I once had to get an elderly lady to take one of those big house spiders out of my room, it had been terrorising me for several days and I couldn't go near it, wish I could control it and like I say I can speak about it but as soon as I find myself near one something that's just hot-wired to my brain makes me run like fcuk

Elle Victorine

haha natural aversion I like it!
I absolutely hate spiders. THe very sight of them makes my skin crawl...actually you make it anything with an exoskeleton and you have my fear. COnversely, I love them. THey're the most interesting creatures on the planet in my eyes and I love reading about them or watching them on television.

As long as they aren't near me and alive I'm happy. If they're on television, in a book or mounted in a case on display cool.

It might just be an aversion but I get palpatations when they run at me...proceeded by a teary eyed foetal response.

I had someone come after me with a spider because he heard I was afraid of them. What an ass!!! Give me beetles worms rats or mice but not those eight legges little critters!