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Engineer fees for Attic Conversion

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    #32
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Thats not fair. Just because I have a good grasp of science, maths and a little engineering experience. Doesn't make me a silly person. quite the opposite imo.

    Some people give professionals way too much "professional respect" But thats just my opinion man !


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    #33
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,037 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    With cheese please !

    Homebond, British Standards or Barry construction , with a little calculator work can put the fire regs to bed in less than a half hour. Certificate isn't gonna put out a fire.

    This just goes to show the lack of understanding you have..... you have quoted 3 publications yet havent quoted the actual regulations that you need to comply with. A little education is a very dangerous thing.

    "Fire risk from an attic conversion" comes from not complying with the regulations.. simple as....


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    #34
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    i'd start by having a look through BS 5588-1, BS 4422
    If it is compliant with them then there is no problem with fire regs.


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    #35
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,042 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    AngryHippie, your info is misleading. The homebond guide does little to go into fire regulations. It deals mostly with 2 story dwellings. As for the BS, yes, there are relevent BS standards, but you certainly won't get through them in half and hour like you suggested.

    As for maths and science, I fail to see how any sort of grasp of either is needed to show compliance. The only maths that is needed is basic arithmatic. The main item required is knowledge of the regs or BSs

    Nobody hads said that there is anything difficult about complaince in dwellings, the regs are there to be followed, and must be. BUT the average user here is a layperson, and as such it is misleading to dismiss the issue as something they can work out from scratch in a half an hour. If you have done it before you may find it easy and may take you half an hour. But it will take the average layperson much longer to get to grips with Part B and/or the relevent BS, and they may overlook an area. (the same applies to alot of the planning and design process).

    As for giving too much professional respect, even if you don't respect the work they are done on it, you should at least respect their PI insurance, which you won't have if you do it yourself. This fact alone is the biggest flaw in your advice.

    Angry Hippie, we try to give advice on this forum. All advice is guidlines, conveying the image that you don't need to worry about fire regulations (or any trival issue) is dangerous, especially when speaking to laypersons.
    Please do not be so dismissive of regulations in future.


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    #36
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,827 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    But can you catch us ???

    At least its not bebo.
    A very positive contribution to the thread.

    AngryHippie wrote: »
    With cheese please !

    Homebond, British Standards or Barry construction , with a little calculator work can put the fire regs to bed in less than a half hour. Certificate isn't gonna put out a fire.
    Doesn't even warrant a response.
    AngryHippie wrote: »
    If you have a computer and excel it is a piece of piss. Really. All it takes is the confidence to start at the beginning , label everything well so you can spot mistakes and double check at the end. Its all the engineer is doing. It isn't rocket science. Fire risk from an attic conversion can only come from total retardedness. Don't be so dramatic..
    Im glad you think that its as simple as that. God love ye.
    AngryHippie wrote: »
    Thats not fair. Just because I have a good grasp of science, maths and a little engineering experience. Doesn't make me a silly person. quite the opposite imo.

    Some people give professionals way too much "professional respect" But thats just my opinion man !
    You certainly havent grasped the ability to post constructively in this forum and yes you do have an opinion and so far it has offered nothing.
    AngryHippie wrote: »
    i'd start by having a look through BS 5588-1, BS 4422
    If it is compliant with them then there is no problem with fire regs.
    For your next trick you will show us how to make it compliant.


    Look AngryHippe I see very little here other than very loose speculation and a degree of piss taking. So you have "a little engineering experience" which counts for sweet FA at the end of the day and as syd has posted it can be a dangerous thing - not only for others but also for you. As Mellor pointed out a lot of the people here are lay people and depend and rely on professionals who contribute here regularly. Dont go making statements about things that you have "a little experience" of - leave that to the rest of us.

    If you are a professional in your own right and possess PI cover and can stand over and explain in detail all the statements you have made then please fill us in. I dont see that happening so therefore I would ask you to please post in a more mature and positive fashion.


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    #37
    carpentoza
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭carpentoza


    Just thought i would throw in my two cents as most of the previous posters have complicated this way out of proportion, most likely because they haven't a clue imo.
    Anyway, the fact that its a bungalow you want to convert means that fire is not the issue it would be in a two story house where u would be adding a third floor effectively. So it is a matter of protecting the new room from and providing means of escape from fire as would be applicable to any two story home.
    You also say that the attic came with structural work completed. Assuming the original builder did this work then his architect will have certified it in the first place.This cert will be with the deeds/legal docs associated with the property.
    Permission is only needed if you want to add a dormer window to the roof or veluxs windows to the front.
    So it sounds like this comes under exempted development.

    To answer your original question i think the engineer is not screwing you but is unneccessary. If you engage a competent builder to complete the work and have his work certified by an architect (about 500 euro) you would save the engineers fee.

    The need for an engineer normally is to ensure the structure of your house is not compromised by a dodgy builder but as u said structural work is finished.

    Hope this helps.


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    #38
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    carpentoza wrote: »
    Just thought i would throw in my two cents as most of the previous posters have complicated this way out of proportion, most likely because they haven't a clue
    Right, As I said to somebody else yesterday...

    Put up or shut up.

    Don't ever, come into this forum and claim that the contributors don't have a clue.

    Banned for a week.


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    #39
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,042 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    carpentoza wrote: »
    Just thought i would throw in my two cents as most of the previous posters have complicated this way out of proportion, most likely because they haven't a clue imo.
    Thats pretty rich considering that you have made two posts so far, both of which wrong.
    Anyway, the fact that its a bungalow you want to convert means that fire is not the issue it would be in a two story house where u would be adding a third floor effectively. So it is a matter of protecting the new room from and providing means of escape from fire as would be applicable to any two story home.
    Fire conditions will still apply. To say different is silly. It may be different from a two story house with a converted attic, but if overlooked there could be serious problems.
    You also say that the attic came with structural work completed. Assuming the original builder did this work then his architect will have certified it in the first place.This cert will be with the deeds/legal docs associated with the property.
    Assumptions can get you into trouble.
    Permission is only needed if you want to add a dormer window to the roof or veluxs windows to the front.
    So it sounds like this comes under exempted development.
    Yes exempt, but we didnt talk of planning but certification and compliance.
    To answer your original question i think the engineer is not screwing you but is unneccessary. If you engage a competent builder to complete the work and have his work certified by an architect (about 500 euro) you would save the engineers fee.
    If you could also hire an engineer to certify the builders work. This should cost the same as the engineer won't charge for structural work that he doesn't do, just as an architect won't charge for design work that he didnt do


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    #40
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,827 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    What did I miss? Who banned God (he who knows all)

    Must get up earlier in the morning ;)


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    #41
    smooth operater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭smooth operater


    Wow, banned for a week was a bit harsh in my opinion....
    carpentoza wrote: »
    Anyway, the fact that its a bungalow you want to convert means that fire is not the issue it would be in a two story house where u would be adding a third floor effectively. So it is a matter of protecting the new room from and providing means of escape from fire as would be applicable to any two story home.

    Afaik, that is true? A three story house is a different story regarding fire safety yes?
    carpentoza wrote: »
    You also say that the attic came with structural work completed. Assuming the original builder did this work then his architect will have certified it in the first place.This cert will be with the deeds/legal docs associated with the property.

    There is a chance that this is true?

    carpentoza wrote: »
    To answer your original question i think the engineer is not screwing you but is unneccessary. If you engage a competent builder to complete the work and have his work certified by an architect (about 500 euro) you would save the engineers fee.

    Entitled to his opinion
    carpentoza wrote: »
    The need for an engineer normally is to ensure the structure of your house is not compromised by a dodgy builder but as u said structural work is finished.

    Hope this helps.

    His opening line was disrespectful, but he did say "imo"

    Im not an expert but it seemed he had a fair idea?


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    #42
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    smooth operater wrote: »
    Im not an expert but it seemed he had a fair idea?

    Maybe he had, I don't particularly care. He could have expressed his opinion better. "imo" does not grant immunity from any rules/ettiquette.

    We have a great forum here with a core of excellent contributors. It is these contributors who have made this forum what it is and I for one won't let anybody come in here and accuse them not having a clue. All contributors give their advice and time voluntarily and to have it thrown back at them like this is totally out of order.


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    #43
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,042 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    smooth operater wrote: »
    Afaik, that is true? A three story house is a different story regarding fire safety yes?
    Yes a 2 story is different than a 3 story. Nobody said otherwise.
    But they different, fire regulations still apply to two story dwellings, not all the regulations that apply to a three story dwelling but
    carpentoza wrote:
    Anyway, the fact that its a bungalow you want to convert means that fire is not the issue
    This is bad advice, the house was design as a bungalow, so there could easily be issues with adding a story regarding fire regs


    There is a chance that this is true?
    Of course there is a chance. But we do not know for certain, assuming that it is, and telling somebody else to carry on based on this assumption is terrible advice.
    Entitled to his opinion
    His opinion was based on nothing. As I have already said, the structural work may already be certified, so the new work only has to, an engineer would not cost an more than an architect to provide this. Carpentoza suggested that it it would, this also is bad advice.
    If something is purely opinion, it should be stated as such
    His opening line was disrespectful, but he did say "imo"
    Saying imo doesn't give you the right to say what you want. If it was his opinion then his opinion was wrong.
    Im not an expert but it seemed he had a fair idea?
    He likely had a fair idea.
    But his attitude was wrong. He suggest that some posters haven't a clue (these posters btw have more than a fair idea)
    Some of his advice was pretty bad, especially for a public forum. He also posted in another thread and in that posts he also corrected somebody with his opinion/facts, which were also very very wrong


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    #44
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,827 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    smooth operater wrote: »
    Wow, banned for a week was a bit harsh in my opinion...............................Entitled to his opinion
    He would have got a decent kick up the hole if I had seen it first. And no he's not entitled to his opinion when it amounts to attacking the professionalism and integrity of the regulars. And if you are not happy with the standard of moderation here you can take it to feedback.


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