feedback isnt working

stevoman

Well folks im obviuosly not a mod but i feel like id like to take this one up with the forum and see what everyone thinks.

Iv been coming through here a lot lately to see whats being said and what threads have been started etc and almost everyday its the same.
Members are coming through and making complaints about the fact they may feel a little hard done by, by a mod in relation to a ban they had got which makes sense as its the feedback forum.

what i just cant understand is when people come here 90% of the time they are looking to have a problem solved or to air an issue that they have on moderaters hy are they bombarded with smart comments and pictures of cats with tag lines that are either not funny or make no sense? It seems to me like its just antagonising people.

feylya

Perhaps they should have gone to the Helpdesk? For help?

stevoman

feylya wrote: »

Perhaps they should have gone to the Helpdesk? For help?

so what are you saying then. that in feedback you dont receive help?

I have come here before looking for help. I got help.

Overheal

My back is well fed in here thank you very much.

Humour helps keep the air clean in here. This isn't the Thunderdome or something.

feylya

Feedback is for giving suggestions and comments on the site, performance issues etc. If you want help, then more than likely the Helpdesk is the better place. Just because you got help here doesn't mean you should come here for help.

Beruthiel

Perhaps you could give us some examples of what you are talking about OP?

I know that when people have a sincere problem, it is actually sorted out. It's the muppets we tend to tear to shreads, and I'm not seeing a problem with that.

Help Desk is for people who have a problem.
Feedback, well, it's for feedback on different things to do with the site.
Most people who post here just don't read the charter or they would know that already.

stevoman

Beruthiel wrote: »

Perhaps you could give us some examples of what you are talking about OP?

Im mean treads like this Beruthiel. Im not here to start a big arguement. Im just trying to positivly contribute here thats all.

http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055242572

http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241397

tallaght01

Beruthiel wrote: »

. It's the muppets we tend to tear to shreads, and I'm not seeing a problem with that.

.

Problem is, you're deciding who's a muppet, and that's wrong.

Help desk FTW!!

Hagar

I have yet to see a genuine poster get short changed in feedback.

Overheal

Beruthiel wrote: »

It's the muppets we tend to tear to shreads, and I'm not seeing a problem with that.

?

in both of the threads referred here the advice and professionalism is adressed promptly. Reading the first page of the poker thread you see the original poster receiving sound advice before it breaks down into shenanigans, after the points have been made.

edit: and in my opinion KAshMachine was kinda looking for a fight

Sherifu

I haven't seen anyone with a good case being turned away.

stevoman wrote: »

Im mean treads like this Beruthiel. Im not here to start a big arguement. Im just trying to positivly contribute here thats all.



http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055242572



http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241397

First thread, OP wasn't sure what troll meant. Snyper was banned for his use of cat pics.
Second thread, problem was solved. No problem there, snap/poker pics were after the event.

I see no problems so far.

tallaght01

Well, I personally think the first page of that poker thread was the most embarrassing thing I've seen on boards for ages.

But that's a matter for the thread itself, I guess

stevoman

okay look im just trying to voice an opinion. If you guys dont think there's any need for improvment thats fine.

Overheal

Well I'd keep an eye out for it alright but where I'm concerned at least, everyone gets treated the same here unless they prove themselves differently (ie. to be pricks or ignorant 12 year olds)

no one here is a prick or a 12 year old, just to clear that up

Beruthiel

stevoman wrote: »

Im mean treads like this Beruthiel. Im not here to start a big arguement. Im just trying to positivly contribute here thats all.

http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055242572

http://usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241397

The first link, I believe an Admin decided that this guy should be banned.

The second thread was answered straight away by the first two posters.

togster

I think it can work if you are willing to actually come with an open mind.

Gandalf23

feylya wrote: »

Perhaps they should have gone to the Helpdesk? For help?

I have been told more than a few times by mods to "take it to feedback" when there has been an issue.

Nerin

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055221133&highlight=feedback+how+were+you+treated

there was already a thread like this and the poll outcome was fairly even, except the cat bit

stevoman

thanks for taking this on board appreciate it! i am guilty of posting some ridiculous remarks myself from time to time, but i do think thats this is a good service here as long as some highjackers dont come in to jump on a bandwagon and belittle the OP. Dare i say this but its usually ordidnary users guilty of this aswell!!!

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone with a good case being turned away.

I have.

Sherifu wrote: »

Snyper was banned for his use of cat pics.

How long did it take to ban this guy? Trolling and idiocy seems to be tolerated far more easily if its coming from the "right" side

Sherifu wrote: »

I see no problems so far.

I think anyone who visits feedback regurarly knows there is a problem here. Look at the amount of threads bringing this up since Christmas alone.

Sometimes feedback reminds me of the way the current FF cabinet defend Bertie. They either know they are lying, or are just so blinkered to the reality of the situation they cant see the truth.

stevoman

yeah regards snyper, he was at it constantly so he is. its really really annoying. Its almost like he was hanging around here backing up a mod with a cat picture everytime. seemed to me like he was licking some backside!!!

Sherifu

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I have.

I see you have brought your quest from the poker thread. Goodie.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

How long did it take to ban this guy? Trolling and idiocy seems to be tolerated far more easily if its coming from the "right" side

The admins have a life, he was banned quite quickly on that thread. I don't know what you mean by right side, i've seen many feedback threads have 'heroes' on both sides.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I think anyone who visits feedback regurarly knows there is a problem here. Look at the amount of threads bringing this up since Christmas alone.

Glad you mentioned this, even the admins remarked there have been many successful resolutions in 08. If anyone would know more than me or you, they would.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Sometimes feedback reminds me of the way the current FF cabinet defend Bertie. They either know they are lying, or are just so blinkered to the reality of the situation they cant see the truth.

Good man.

togster

stevoman wrote: »

yeah regards snyper, he was at it constantly so he is. its really really annoying. Its almost like he was hanging around here backing up a mod with a cat picture everytime. seemed to me like he was licking some backside!!!

Don't think it's so cool to talk about him if he's banned. Now who's guilty of de-railing the thread?;)

stevoman

togster wrote: »

Don't think it's so cool to talk about him if he's banned. Now who's guilty of de-railing the thread?;)

c'mon now togster i think iv even been victim of a smart remark myself from him here once!

ps - point taken!!!!!!

Nerin

yeah regards snyper, he was at it constantly so he is. its really really annoying. Its almost like he was hanging around here backing up a mod with a cat picture everytime. seemed to me like he was licking some backside!!!

wow. just wow. so you reckon that when people make fun of muppetry, its only against posters who are Normal Users, never against mods?
as for snyper, he posted two pics in a row on a thread that was keeping fairly serious (at the time of snypers posts i think the OP was getting narky and arguing over something or other with Talliesin,muppetry,but muppetry that was getting a mostly serious response)
DeV got rid of Snyper,as he said, because he had gotten on his nerves.

Proper feedback gets a proper response.Then again it also gets Boardsie Cards and Cats too,as JOKES.
but the ones aimed to "belittle" the OPs, are usually for idiotic nonsense,or someone acting the fool, as Beruthiel said, they get "cut to shreds" if theyre acting the prat or causing shenanigans.
seriously, the bandwagon is getting fairly full at the moment.

Yours sincerely,
Boards Fanboy
:rolleyes:

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

I see you have brought your quest from the poker thread. Goodie.

Oops ... I forgot people were only allowed to post in one thread at a time. My sincerest apologies.

Sherifu wrote: »

The admins have a life, he was banned quite quickly on that thread. I don't know what you mean by right side, i've seen many feedback threads have 'heroes' on both sides.

This particular guy was posting lolcats for a long time before he was banned. Even one of the admins admitted as much.

Sherifu wrote: »

Glad you mentioned this, even the admins remarked there have been many successful resolutions in 08. If anyone would know more than me or you, they would.

There have definitely been many successful resolutions, I admit that. But there (IMHO of course) are ongoing problems with feedback. These caused sometimes by idiots posting irrelevant and stupid pictures and comments. Do you not admit that?

The problem here is that there seems two camps ... the "fight da powa" idiots vs. the "boards.ie fanboys". Both are equally biased and blinkered. Both of these camps are unwilling to listen to or understand the other persons position.

Then there are the rest of the community in the middle attempting to be even handed and willing to listen. Unfortunately, sometimes this group are the silent majority ...

stevoman

nerin wrote: »

wow. just wow. so you reckon that when people make fun of muppetry, its only against posters who are Normal Users, never against mods?
as for snyper, he posted two pics in a row on a thread that was keeping fairly serious (at the time of snypers posts i think the OP was getting narky and arguing over something or other with Talliesin,muppetry,but muppetry that was getting a mostly serious response)
DeV got rid of Snyper,as he said, because he had gotten on his nerves.

Proper feedback gets a proper response.Then again it also gets Boardsie Cards and Cats too,as JOKES.
but the ones aimed to "belittle" the OPs, are usually for idiotic nonsense,or someone acting the fool, as Beruthiel said, they get "cut to shreds" if theyre acting the prat or causing shenanigans.
seriously, the bandwagon is getting fairly full at the moment.

Yours sincerely,
Boards Fanboy
:rolleyes:

Im sorry i dont understand your point?

togster

stevoman wrote: »

c'mon now togster i think iv even been victim of a smart remark myself from him here once!

ps - point taken!!!!!!

No worries...

I think you have some good points. I brought them up before too. You see what happens in these threads is that people refuse to see the others point of view.

People with genuine concerns about how feedback functions are often lumped together with the trolls and tards who see it as an oppurtunity to settle a grievance. Some mods and other "regular posters" see it as an attack on them, which to be fair is sometimes the case.

I really think someone should come up with a coherent balanced list of things they seem wrong with feedback. And i also think Admins should make it clear what the purpose of feedback actually is and let this be a mod wide concensus. If grievances for bannings are to be taken to help desk than so be it. I also think that if is to be help desk then a mod should moderate it to limit the spastic behaviour (from both sides) so the proces can work

Nerin

to break it down for you stevoman,
a)i think people tend to make big deals over nothing,or hold grudges/be stubborn
b)i also think feedback is not as bad as the nay sayers are claiming it is. it can be bad, but in all fairness, people acting the maggot deserve to be poked fun of. those who aren't do not, but people seem to be mistaking jokes for belittlement.
hope that clears things up a bit for you.

stevoman

togster wrote: »

No worries...

I think you have some good points. I brought them up before too. You see what happens in these threads is that people refuse to see the others point of view.

People with genuine concerns about how feedback functions are often lumped together with the trolls and tards who see it as an oppurtunity to settle a grievance. Some mods and other "regular posters" see it as an attack on them, which to be fair is sometimes the case.

I really think someone should come up with a coherent balanced list of things they seem wrong with feedback. And i also think Admins should make it clear what the purpose of feedback actually is and let this be a mod wide concensus. If grievances for bannings are to be taken to help desk than so be it. I also think that if is to be help desk then a mod should moderate it to limit the spastic behaviour (from both sides) so the proces can work

sound togster. im glad to see that you take on board my points. also fair play for keeping me in line before i could have let myself down with a rant!

Nerin

togster wrote: »

People with genuine concerns about how feedback functions are often lumped together with the trolls and tards who see it as an oppurtunity to settle a grievance. Some mods and other "regular posters" see it as an attack on them, which to be fair is sometimes the case.

I really think someone should come up with a coherent balanced list of things they seem wrong with feedback. And i also think Admins should make it clear what the peupose of feedback actually is and let this be a mod wide concensus. If grievances for bannings are to be taken to help desk than so be it. I also think that if it to be help desk then a mod should moderate it and to limit the spastic behaviour (from both sides) so the proces can work

good point, if someone has a real problem and just wants to sort it with mod peoples,they should bring it to feedback.
if its anything boards related they want peoples opinions on, feedback.
i ask questions in feedback about boards rules and features and have no problems (because its probably so boring ).
if someone wants a fite teh power rant for everyone to see, post in feedback. perhaps a sticky saying such?
good idea/bad idea?

stevoman

nerin wrote: »

to break it down for you stevoman,
a)i think people tend to make big deals over nothing,or hold grudges/be stubborn
b)i also think feedback is not as bad as the nay sayers are claiming it is. it can be bad, but in all fairness, people acting the maggot deserve to be poked fun of. those who aren't do not, but people seem to be mistaking jokes for belittlement.
hope that clears things up a bit for you.

Point taken. My point really is though feedback works, but i think there is room for improvent though.

Sherifu

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Oops ... I forgot people were only allowed to post in one thread at a time. My sincerest apologies.

Not at all. Post away.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

This particular guy was posting lolcats for a long time before he was banned. Even one of the admins admitted as much.

It takes a fair amount to get banned from feedback. The drip of lolcats broke the dam in this case.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

There have definitely been many successful resolutions, I admit that. But there (IMHO of course) are ongoing problems with feedback. These caused sometimes by idiots posting irrelevant and stupid pictures and comments. Do you not admit that?

The problem here is that there seems two camps ... the "fight da powa" idiots vs. the "boards.ie fanboys". Both are equally biased and blinkered. Both of these camps are unwilling to listen to or understand the other persons position.

Then there are the rest of the community in the middle attempting to be even handed and willing to listen. Unfortunately, sometimes this group are the silent majority ...

Of course i'll admit that there are irrelevant pics/comments but mostly a serious thread will stay serious. If there is merit in the argument the OP will get a fair go. Sometimes even when they have a case they get riddiculed because of the way they present their problem, with an attitude or whatever. In that case an admin may step in. I think it works well enough the way it is.

Gandalf23

togster wrote: »

People with genuine concerns about how feedback functions are often lumped together with the trolls and tards who see it as an oppurtunity to settle a grievance. Some mods and other "regular posters" see it as an attack on them, which to be fair is sometimes the case

Nail. Head. Hit on the.

I've said this a few times before ... anyone coming to feedback acting the maggot or questioning a ban should be told exactly why the ban was imposed and the thread then locked. If necessary an admin can make final decision on this.

There is no need for feedback to decend into the mess of stupidity and lolcats I've seen here all too often.

stevoman

maybe a Mod should be givin clearence to lock each thread once its deemed finished and save the bombardment of cats????

tbh

This is how cats come to feedback:

Q: Why was I banned?

A: Did you pm the mod?

Q: No

A: Fuck off then. Unleash the cats.

helpdesk ftw.

togster

togster wrote: »

And i also think Admins should make it clear what the purpose of feedback actually is and let this be a mod wide concensus. If grievances for bannings are to be taken to help desk than so be it. I also think that if is to be help desk then a mod should moderate it to limit the spastic behaviour (from both sides) so the proces can work

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=247043

cornbb

I'd have to agree with the OP. Airing a grievance in Feedback is like trial by ordeal - there are plenty of muppets who come along and deserve to have the piss ripped out of them, granted, but there are also a lot of people with genuine problems and it is generally left to a large core of Feedback regulars (usually mods) to either help them out, often at the price of a barrage of rolleyes, accusations or cat pics.

The fight-da-powa muppets and boards.ie fanboys are at opposite ends of the boards.ie spectrum but unfortunately they are the most vocal groups in Feedback. I guess that makes it sort of an entertaining gladatorial arena, but it doesn't make it a Feedback forum... I do love boards but I don't think this forum does what it says on the tin at all. Helpdesk FTW.

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

Not at all. Post away.

Thanks very much for your permission to post on boards.ie. Means a lot to me

Sherifu wrote: »

Of course i'll admit that there are irrelevant pics/comments but mostly a serious thread will stay serious. If there is merit in the argument the OP will get a fair go. Sometimes even when they have a case they get riddiculed because of the way they present their problem, with an attitude or whatever. In that case an admin may step in. I think it works well enough the way it is.

I have seen many serious threads decend into chaos. The OP frequently does not get a "fair go". I believe its unfair to riddicule a poster because of the "way they present their problem". Most of the people here are very educated, experienced, smart people who are well used to this means of communication and being able to present a particular point of view in an Internet forum. Its horribly unfair and one-sided to rip an inexperienced person to shreads because they are not as smart or articulate as you. Sometimes feedback reminds me of the Jerry Springer audience

I think this forum needs a radical re-think. Its not working well as it is, and I'm not alone in thinking that.

Just my 2c on this, and for the record I'm a huge fan of boards.ie and have been folowing it since the very start. I'd love to see the site prosper and I've received (and given) lots of help since I've been a member (most recently emailing lots of Open Source material to a guy doing a presentation for work).

People sometimes forget that it takes a real friend to be brave enough to tell someone the brutal truth about something ...

Gandalf23

tbh wrote: »

This is how cats come to feedback:

Q: Why was I banned?

A: Did you pm the mod?

Q: No

A: Fuck off then. Unleash the cats.

helpdesk ftw.

The mods frequently tell people to "take it to feedback" when PM'ed ...

Karl Hungus

Feedback does work, but it isn't perfect.

While we can sit back and say that "Only the muppets get given a hard time" it does happen that cat pics do get trotted out by some posters without much provocation, and it can be taken up wrong.

I wrote a big post a while back, under the title of Hot to get unbanned, a few tips, and hopefully it should have made things run a bit smoother.

togster

Myth wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=247043

I know this exsists myth but maybe mods should say "take it to helpdesk". I have seen many nods say "take it to helpdesk/feedback".

Sherifu

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Nail. Head. Hit on the.

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

togster

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I wrote a big post a while back, under the title of Hot to get unbanned, a few tips, and hopefully it should have made things run a bit smoother.

And it was a really good post. It helped me

I thought that should have been stickied tbh and any n00b posting should read it. If they don't read it lock the thread?

Feedback worked for me btw and if you're civil with people they are usually civil with you.

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

Feedback works sometimes, but does NOT work as it should MOST of the time. You would have to admit there are problems here that need to be addressed?

I'm baffeled as to why there not as strict a policy here as there is in PI.

togster

Sherifu wrote: »

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

Well it was more the fact that i took the time to pm the right person and he was good enough to re-instate me. Thats the point, alot of threads would be avoided if people actually were civil with the mods and pm'd them.

tbh

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Feedback works sometimes, but does NOT work as it should MOST of the time. You would have to admit there are problems here that need to be addressed?

I'm baffeled as to why there not as strict a policy here as there is in PI.

that would be helpdesk. It's waaaay stricter than PI.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

The mods frequently tell people to "take it to feedback" when PM'ed ...

that's fine. If a user has pm'd a mod and been told to take it here, that's a different issue. I think that the majority of abuse - which I have to say, I don't really see the point of - is if a user resorts to feedback as a first option, when really it (or, more properly, helpdesk) should be the "nuclear" option. I've generally found that people go to feedback if they want a rant, and helpdesk if they are serious about getting a situation resolved. I do think that posters should be told to raise problems with mods or bans in helpdesk, rather than feedback.

Sherifu

togster wrote: »

Well it was more the fact that i took the time to pm the right person and he was good enough to re-instate me. Thats the point, alot of threads would be avoided if people actually were civil with the mods and pm'd them.

Was it the PM that did it or the thread? Anyway you didn't post here making things up, no great works of fiction. You admitted you made a mistake, held your hands up and asked for another chance. You presented the truth and were given a fair go. Too many threads start here with the god given right attitude.

Gandalf23

tbh wrote: »

that would be helpdesk. It's waaaay stricter than PI.

Accepted, and maybe this is what should happen. But then what is the purpose of "feedback" and why is the default response from mods when PM'ed about bans etc. "take it to feedback"?

/edit/ Ok tbh ... see your response to my question in your edit above ...

@tbh ... I totally see what you are saying and agree to a large extent. So what do you see as being the purpose of feedback then?

tbh

as to the purpose of feedback, I actually think it's for comments about boards in general, similar to what Ibid proposed here. For whatever reason, feedback and helpdesk have overlapped, and that really should be sorted.

cornbb

Now this thread itself is an example of an excellent Feedback thread. Helpful, mature discussion on an aspect of boards and how it could be improved. And not a cat pic in sight. I do love cat pics, banter, slagging muppets off etc. but they are unhelpful in what should be a constructive forum.

I think tallaght01 said earlier in the thread that it shouldn't be up to boards.ie general population or mods to decide who is or isn't a muppet in Feedback and he's perfectly right. I think ban appeals can only be fairly dealt with by admins, unfortunately and understandably they don't always have the time to do so.