AEG Chrono on site

sci-ops

Guys, just want to touch on something of a hot topic.....:D(no pun intended)

Now, I know we are all pretty genuine when it comes to making sure that we remain under the 1 joule limit, but it can happen that we make a purchase, wether it be an Irish retailer or not,an aeg or just a new spring, piston etc.... and it might be firing slightly above the 1 joule.

I've gone skirmishing now a couple of times, maybe 5 or 6 at a couple of sites. As of yet, I've only had my aeg chrono'ed once, on my first visit to one of the sites.

I was speaking to a friend of mine in the states who happens to also play Airsoft... kind of how I found out about the sport, and he couldn't believe it when I told him this. They have to get their aeg's chrono'ed on every visit to every site regardless of how often they go there. After all, the site owner has no way of knowing if you have a new aeg or made any mods/upgrades to it. After chrono'ing, they tie a zip lock (tie wrap) around the aeg to show that it has been chrono'ed and is okay.

Would it not be best for the sport here in Ireland to encourage the various site owners to chrono every aeg before being allowed to game?? I know it's a pain, but as my company says "Safety comes first" (yes it's American)...not to mention the law.

What do you lads/ladettes(?) think??

kdouglas

not a bad idea, perhaps use small stickers (little ones about 1cm circle) to signify an aeg has been chrono'd

It is time consuming to do, but for the sake of safety it would be worth it, besides everyone spends enough time standing about in the morning anyway, so it wouldnt be that big a deal

Tigger

i've never played without being chronoed before hand

i had to disssemble my new saw and put a new spring in it befor i could play at the birthday bash

thanks to robster for the gift of spring
and to long haired people for hyperactive help

Cuddlesworth

Not a bad idea, but I would like to point out that in America the only limits are site imposed. So unlike here where everybody is very close in range and power, you can have 4+Joule automatics running around in the States. Not something I would want to be shot by.

The Master

rbd wrote: »

thanks to robster for the gift of spring

Thanks again for the lift

Gatling

was taking about this with someone during the week , sites could keep a database of aegs ,owners,average fps ,with monthly retesting of all aegs

Dr_Pepper

Gatling wrote: »

was taking about this with someone during the week , sites could keep a database of aegs ,owners,average fps ,with monthly retesting of all aegs

Most serial numbers on aeg's are fake and generic and this also causes a lot of hassle for site owners and gives people a way around it if if it gets tested once a month.

If its safety then the onsite realtime test and temp ident is better, ie ziplock/sticker.

The Master

Maybe im being really naieve but would anybody really try to deliberatly use a hot AEG?

I can understand if the AEG is new and hasnt yet been tested so the player couldnt have known it was hot when bringing it to a site , but are there players out there really ignoring the 1j law?

Dr_Pepper

Robster wrote: »

would anybody really try to deliberatly use a hot AEG?
but are there players out there really ignoring the 1j law?

If theres not then we shouldnt need to chrono.
However i know of 1 person who brought a sniper to a skirmish that was over 500fps and if i hadn't been adamant about testing it he would have used it in the field. He sold it since

However the point is not to create lots of work but to keep it simple.
Test it as it arrives, all one would need is a chrono, 20 bb's and a charged battery.

cpb

Robster wrote: »

Maybe im being really naieve but would anybody really try to deliberatly use a hot AEG?

yes have seen it happen. I think all aeg should be tested at the start of every game even if it delays things.

The Master

Well Dr_Pepper I guess that shows how naieve I am then:p
I never thought someone would delibertly use a hot AEG.

This might be out of line but 500fps:eek: name and shame the user

Gatling

i wast talking serial numbers,eg
name -Gatling
Aegs- dboys M4A1 fps 270 .date tested
Tm P90 275fps date tested .
upgrade's none

sci-ops

Robster wrote: »

Maybe im being really naieve but would anybody really try to deliberatly use a hot AEG?

As I said Robster, I'm sure nobody goes out deliberately with the intention of playing with a hot AEG. But it can happen.....

I know some of the clones can be a little hot, some not, some upgrades to improve performance reliability can also push you over the limit, without intention. I'm also pretty sure that most people don't own a chrono and as far as I can tell, the coke can test is iffy at best.

Fiach Dubh

I have no problem with my AEG being crono'd every time I go to play but I don't really want things being stuck onto and removed from my expensive AEG's body all the time. Perhaps after ones AEG is crono'd it could be marked as such in the sign in book?

Dr_Pepper

This really could go on for a while
Either way its the Site Owners choice to do this so the topic is moot.

kdouglas

well a small sticker on somewhere innocuous wouldnt leave any marks?

at least if it's a mark on the aeg itself, then if there is any question as to whether or not someone's aeg was chrono'd you just need to look at it

aswell, if an aeg is spotted without a sticker on it, then it's easy to spot and that person will need to go and get chrono'd

the problem arises with players that go every single week, wherein both the owner and the player would get tired of chrono'ing the same kit all the time

Edit: agree with Dr pepper, it's up to the site owners at the end of the day

Evolute

rbd wrote: »

i've never played without being chronoed before hand

i had to disssemble my new saw and put a new spring in it befor i could play at the birthday bash

thanks to robster for the gift of spring
and to long haired people for hyperactive help

Your most welcome I think the dwarf helped too

Arcto

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

. He sold it since

.

Illegal arms dealing eh? :eek:

Never been chrono'd, even when i aske for it to be done so i could get a reading

Mark_Sc

A sticker on the bottem(or somewhere else inconspicous) place in such a wat that it would have to be torn if someone wanted to open up their gearbox

Masada

is it really necessary to do it though? so far i havent heard or any incidents so would it not be a load of hassle to have to chrono the same guns every time. im not sure the operators would be too big on the thought of doing the same stuff every time they go., id prefer to leave the responsibility to the user and if theres reason to think it might be hot then chrono ot and have them rectify it.,
id imagine threads like this wil just get the tounges wagging about "i know a fella that had one 600fps" etc and thats just giving ammo to the anti-airsoft brigade., id think it would make more sense to deal with cases on in individual level and chrono everything that hasnt been done before. then for the ones that have been done the user should put it up for chrono themselves. i had this exact situation on saturday where i had mine done becasue i wanted it to be and found it was a little hot., all sorted now though.,:)

bullets

One thing that been bugging me lately is typically we
would like our AEG's to be fireing at 1j or as close to 1j as possible.

So we kinda know by know that even though fps is not a measure
of the power of the AEG/Equipment that 1j would work out
at 328fps with a .2g BB.

if you are chrono'ing a 1J AEG and
it comes in a 329fps or 330 fps with a .2g
Then its technically a firearm in the eyes of the law.
Surely the Law/Rules/restrictions on sale need to
factor in some % variance.

I know when I chrono'd my equipment (all 1j or under) I got variances.
Sometimes the chrono would not even register the passing of
the BB between the two sensors sometime it gave me readings over
15fps lower or higher when testing. I needed to take the average reading.

More and more lately I am seeing AEG's advertised on (non-Irish) websites
with 330fps listed. I know that if you go from web site to website for the
same AEG you may get different fps listed on them. But its Horrible to
think that you could not purchase an AEG because of 2 meesly fps ?
without needing to try and get the shop to do a downgrade for you.

~B

Masada

yeah it would be handy if there was a "tolerance", although a lot of people think there is though., maybe about 10-20fps over and then they start being strict, the thing is even the 1J guns might be a little hot before the spring is run in and then they'll go down to legal level.,

ED E

KD: Very original Idea with the stickers:p

First thing you should do about chronos is if you use a madbull, then build a sun shade for the display. It'll double the speed of chronoing as you wont have to put your hand up and squint after every shot:D

I'd love to be naive and say that nobody would intentionally use a hot "marker"(there's more than aegs out there:p) but tbh there's always one.

+1 for safety. Chrono every gun every skirmish.

CrazyRabbit

bullets wrote: »

One thing that been bugging me lately is typically we
would like our AEG's to be fireing at 1j or as close to 1j as possible.

So we kinda know by know that even though fps is not a measure
of the power of the AEG/Equipment that 1j would work out
at 328fps with a .2g BB.

if you are chrono'ing a 1J AEG and
it comes in a 329fps or 330 fps with a .2g
Then its technically a firearm in the eyes of the law.
Surely the Law/Rules/restrictions on sale need to
factor in some % variance.

I know when I chrono'd my equipment (all 1j or under) I got variances.
Sometimes the chrono would not even register the passing of
the BB between the two sensors sometime it gave me readings over
15fps lower or higher when testing. I needed to take the average reading.

More and more lately I am seeing AEG's advertised on (non-Irish) websites
with 330fps listed. I know that if you go from web site to website for the
same AEG you may get different fps listed on them. But its Horrible to
think that you could not purchase an AEG because of 2 meesly fps ?
without needing to try and get the shop to do a downgrade for you.

~B

One of the big sites up north allow +10% variance if I remember correctly. I won't mention which one as I'm not sure about the legal ramifications. However, I think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how accurate those chrono's are...they could be off by 10fps or so.

I'd also be be annoyed by chronoing my AEG every time I visit a site. I can understand if I visit a new site or have a new AEG/new upgrades. But...we trust each other to play honourably and take hits, so I would have presumed that we also trust each other to play with legal AEG's.

My humble opinion....check new AEG's and newly upgraded AEG's. That's enough to catch 99.5% of hot AEG's. It's all up to site owners though, so I'd follow their rules.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not suggesting we allow hot AEG's, but merely that Chrono's might not be too accurate. I'm happy to stand corrected if someone can verify/prove their accuracy.

ED E

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

One of the big sites up north allow +10% variance if I remember correctly. I won't mention which one as I'm not sure about the legal ramifications. However, I think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how accurate those chrono's are...they could be off by 10fps or so.

I'd also be be annoyed by chronoing my AEG every time I visit a site. I can understand if I visit a new site or have a new AEG/new upgrades. But...we trust each other to play honourably and take hits, so I would have presumed that we also trust each other to play with legal AEG's.

My humble opinion....check new AEG's and newly upgraded AEG's. That's enough to catch 99.5% of hot AEG's. It's all up to site owners though, so I'd follow their rules.

But think of people like KD who open their AEGs all the time. He could easily change something and forget that he'd done it:p

TBH if people upgrade and think they may be slightly over they will shut up and say nothing as they want to be able to play with their kit and not have to rent. Also, some people like braking rules.

Hivemind187

I can't believe I am saying this again but ...

There is absolutely no variance or tolerance regarding the 1joule limit. None. Nada. Zilch. Complain if you like but it is written into the law as 1 joule and that is it. No variance etc.

This comes about because under UK law there is no actual limit. Sites generally hover around the 350 mark for AEG's, 450fps for semi-auto's and 500fps for bolt actions. Technically, under UK law, an item needs to be over 12 foot pounds of pressure (around 8joules) before it qualifies as a firearm. As such, sites in northern Ireland are able to have "wiggle room".

We do not.

Regarding the issue of testing.

Having been responsible for the chronograph I can say that their are plenty of pieces out there that are coming in hot, not by much, but still hot. this is mainly an issue with the clones tbh and they are usually around the 335-350 mark. Its usually not a hassle to get a spring replaced, especially if its an Irish retailer where it is their responsibility to do so (>1joule constitutes a faulty item since it is not doing what it is supposed to).

Personally I am all for mandatory testing of all items on a site. Not because I'm a jerk or enjoy watching the worried faces of the new players terrified that their kit will be over (though that is a unique pleasure), but because there are obvious flaws in the alternatives.

Stickers: On the face of it a good idea (and vtecs suggestion of putting it over the receiver joint is somewhat inspired). What happens when we get a nimrod who brings stickers with him to affix to his aeg and pretend its been chronographed. We have had people at sites who have arrived with the "I'm going to riddle everyone and I can't wait to see 'em bleed" attitude. granted, they usually never come back having been thoroughly humiliated but it shows the potential for abuse by unscrupulous types.

Testing once a month: Another good idea on the face of it. Trouble is that people could easily have a bolt action firing at 320fps one week, take it home, do a well-known but not to be mentioned trick with the piece and hey presto 430fps! Plays with it for a couple of weeks then switches it back to be chronographed. Saying "we'll test you once a month" is almost asking people to abuse it.

As much as I wish these would work I fear that the tiny minority of jerks in airsoft would abuse it and ruin things for everyone. As far as I can see, and its still not a fool proof system, compulsory checking of everything at a venue before a game start is the only way to go if for no other reason than its too much effort to try and fool the venue every game by switching the kit etc.

Towards this, it might be worth doing an IAA guide to chronographing. Knowing that the hop unit will effect the velocity it might be worth getting our resident techno-jedi to cobble together a quick set of rules for chronographing a piece (hop should be off etc). What do you think?

CrazyRabbit

It's a sorry state when you have to replace trust with weekly chronoing. Are we that suspicious and paranoid?

I personally am quite happy to trust people and let them shoot at me with their untested AEG's. If something hits me and feels overpowered, I can ask the site owner to test it. This situation has yet to occur.

Again, test all NEW AEG's and you catch 99.5% of hot AEG's. This is pretty much what has been done so far in HRTA and I've never seen any problems.

Anyone increasing the power of their AEG is going to want to test its new power anyway and will be glad to use the Chrono on-site. Also, newbie players generally don't mod their AEG's..only the more established players do. And they have generally been around long enough to be trusted. (I'm not saying new player are untrustworthy, just that they are unknown)

Masada

yeah i agree completely with rabbit there., the system in place at the moment works and there isnt any hassle, if theres suspecion about a particular gun then it can be tested.,

Boru.

I've been reading up on international rules regarding airsoft and paintball site admin marshalling etc. In nearly every account I have read to date all guns are chronoed at the start of the day, reagrdless of how many times you and your gun may have been there, if you want to walk on, you get tested, that simple.

This also allows ample time for eveyone to do the obligatory chit chat, hey how are you etc. Nor do I see it as paranoia, simply good safe practice and common sense that any professional sport should enforce and advocate. Even if everyone is honest, mistakes cna happen and even if they don't and all AEG's are perfect it's still a good practice that woudl hammer home the saftey and responsability aspects to both players and the public. it can only be of benefit to the sport.

Finally, slightly off topic, there is also a full saftey breifing prior to each days skirmishing again, regardless of who's there, it happens.

I think while this is certainly extra work and hassle, it would go along way to meeting international standards and of course improving the view of the sport by outsiders. If we take a professional no nonsense approach to the sport, the sport itself will also be seen as professional.

Personally I would like to see the IAA take a step in this direction and have it as part of the official guidelines that such measures be enfored in IAA affilaited sites. it would go along way to our legitimizing the sport.

As such I will be contacting the IAA Communtiy Liason Officer as reagrds this matter and then he may pass it along to the proper channels, upon which it can be brought to the formal attention of the IAA.

zero19

vtec wrote: »

yeah i agree completely with rabbit there., the system in place at the moment works and there isnt any hassle, if theres suspecion about a particular marker then it can be tested.,

Fixed But anyway on topic i imagine it would be a good idea to test the kit of new players first time for definite

Masada

zero19 wrote: »

Fixed But anyway on topic i imagine it would be a good idea to test the kit of new players first time for definite

lol., thats for another day but i dont agree with refraining from calling them guns, we have spray guns, glue guns, potato guns, water guns etc and in my opinion these are guns too, not firearms, guns.,:) hence the "G" in AEG,.;)

Dr_Pepper

Nothing wrong with calling it as gun as a gun is an object.
A weapon is a term applied to an object when used to harm/damage someone/something.

nonex

this might sound harsh, but the law says 1 joule, so tecnically i do not have to test any aeg that comes on to my site, the thing here to remeber is you should not have an aeg over 1 joule in ireland, so say you shot some one and your aeg is over 1 joule and it will go to court i for one would not like to be that person as the law stands shooting some one with an illegal fire arm is a ten year prison term so be warned.

Dar

One can't just do a straight comparison as regards mandatory chronographing here and in other countries such as the UK, USA and Canada. There the FPS limit is imposed and policed by the players and venues themselves because airsoft guns well in excess of those limits are perfectly legal to own and use. Here the limit is not voluntary, it is very clearly set out in the Firearms Act.

bullets

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I can't believe I am saying this again but ...

There is absolutely no variance or tolerance regarding the 1joule limit. None. Nada. Zilch. Complain if you like but it is written into the law as 1 joule and that is it. No variance etc.

I understand whats written down as text in the law but.........

All the more reason for the IAA to try and get a tolerance limit built into the Law.

I think most airsofters would agree that we would be very naive to think
that everything currently in the country was hunky dory.

I'm not talking about a 1j vs 14j tolerance I am talking about something
realistic where due to circumstances under no control of a buyer or user
where by the airsoft equipment may marginally break the limit by a tiny amount.
A perfectly legal 1j AEG could fire over the limit for lots of different reasons even a sudden gust of wind may give a bb that extra bit of Ommph
that is required to change the reading on a chrono from 328fps to 329fps.

Even the chronos themselves are based on sensors detecting the passage
of a projectile traveling across 2 points which the results of detection can
vary depending on Light and shading etc.

For Airsoft equipment that is Gas powered then it gets really
scary cos the same piece of equipment could be under or over the law
depending on the weather/temperature and the type of gas used.

In reality I don't think ANYONE would be so petty as to quibble over
a few fps but that would be reality and not the law.

In the company I work for several years ago my job was to measure
test results from several different pieces of equipment twice a night that should fall into a set number. The test results NEVER fell into perfect results.
If they did not it in theory could have cost hundreds of thousands of Euors
Instead there was an upper and lower standard deviation where if the result
fell in or out of place there was an out of spec correction plan.

Even with real steal when I fire my own rifle at my local range and measure
the fps under a chrono I get varying results even though the amount of powder and my bullet weight is supposedly the same. Its a fact of life.
You will not get an exact result of fps/power each time you fire.

Similarly fireing an AEG by pure nature will not have absolute consistent
results when firing and measuring the exact fps or power of a BB coming
out of the barrel of an AEG/GBB.


~B

Spetzcong

bullets wrote: »

I understand whats written down as text in the law but.........

All the more reason for the IAA to try and get a tolerance limit built into the Law.

I think most airsofters would agree that we would be very naive to think
that everything currently in the country was hunky dory.

I'm not talking about a 1j vs 14j tolerance I am talking about something
realistic where due to circumstances under no control of a buyer or user
where by the airsoft equipment may marginally break the limit by a tiny amount.
A perfectly legal 1j AEG could fire over the limit for lots of different reasons even a sudden gust of wind may give a bb that extra bit of Ommph
that is required to change the reading on a chrono from 328fps to 329fps.

Even the chronos themselves are based on sensors detecting the passage
of a projectile traveling across 2 points which the results of detection can
vary depending on Light and shading etc.

For Airsoft equipment that is Gas powered then it gets really
scary cos the same piece of equipment could be under or over the law
depending on the weather/temperature and the type of gas used.

In reality I don't think ANYONE would be so petty as to quibble over
a few fps but that would be reality and not the law.

In the company I work for several years ago my job was to measure
test results from several different pieces of equipment twice a night that should fall into a set number. The test results NEVER fell into perfect results.
If they did not it in theory could have cost hundreds of thousands of Euors
Instead there was an upper and lower standard deviation where if the result
fell in or out of place there was an out of spec correction plan.

Even with real steal when I fire my own rifle at my local range and measure
the fps under a chrono I get varying results even though the amount of powder and my bullet weight is supposedly the same. Its a fact of life.
You will not get an exact result of fps/power each time you fire.

Similarly fireing an AEG by pure nature will not have absolute consistent
results when firing and measuring the exact fps or power of a BB coming
out of the barrel of an AEG/GBB.


~B

When chronoing though is it not standard practice to fire the AEG/Whatever a number of times and then figure out average? I know from watching my AEG's get chronoed that they can vary slightly from shot to shot, so in that sense there's leeway, just so long as the average is under 1j.

I think in a perfect world that it would be wonderful to have a little bit of leeway with regards to fps, and perhaps, some day when the sport is more established we will. For the moment though we should be happy we can play at all, I imagine the IAA would be loath to try pushing their/our luck with the powers that be on the issue of fps when we as a sport are still very much unestablished and at the mercy of an unaccepting (so far) general public.

Masada

as far as in know the law doesnt say anything about averages in the readings but it would make a good difference, imagine firing 325 legal on the first shot and then 329 the next., if it was in garda HQ for tests your gun would be crushed.,

Dr_Pepper

Bullets:

The limit is 328 here and even less in Japan.
They are very strict there about it not being allowed even 1j.
So manufactures make guns that fire well below.
Also just because 1j is the limit doesnt mean you should aim for EXACTLY 1j.
Do you drive the entire motorway at 120kmph?

Also correct me if im wrong but the cameras on the motorway have no 10% leway.

feylya

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Also correct me if im wrong but the cameras on the motorway have no 10% leway.

No but your speedometer does

SniperSight

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Bullets:

Do you drive the entire motorway at 120kmph?

Yes,:D

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Bullets:

Also correct me if im wrong but the cameras on the motorway have no 10% leway.

Oh crap:eek:

CrazyRabbit

nonex wrote: »

this might sound harsh, but the law says 1 joule, so tecnically i do not have to test any aeg that comes on to my site, the thing here to remeber is you should not have an aeg over 1 joule in ireland, so say you shot some one and your aeg is over 1 joule and it will go to court i for one would not like to be that person as the law stands shooting some one with an illegal fire arm is a ten year prison term so be warned.

That pretty much sums it up. Each person takes responsibility for their own AEG being legal.

Nonex = A man of few words, but damn good ones.

Masada

yes the speedo is never perfect, the cameras are spot on though since they take 2 pics and measure the distance traveled in between the 2 photos., you need to get to 172MPH before you are quick enough to be out of the shot before the second photo.,

Dr_Pepper

Thats great but the point was that the law is specific and in Japan they have no issues as the retailers like TM make theirs at .7 to .8 joules.

Spitfire666

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Bullets:

The limit is 328 here and even less in Japan.
They are very strict there about it not being allowed even 1j.
So manufactures make guns that fire well below.
Also just because 1j is the limit doesnt mean you should aim for EXACTLY 1j.
Do you drive the entire motorway at 120kmph?

Also correct me if im wrong but the cameras on the motorway have no 10% leway.

actually they do have a leway but thats off topic.

ambro25

Seconding Dr Pepper for a moment: the Law says 1 Joule, end of.

[cliché]It's a limit, not a target.[/cliché]

So, it's 328 FPS with 0,2gr, more with 0.12gr and less with 0,25gr.

Bullets, if you have FPS issues, might I suggest you use differing density BBs, rather than plead a really-not-insignificant legislative change at the initiative of an insignificant fringe/tiny core of hobbyists to cater for a yet even-more-insignificant issue?

EDIT - also seconding the "chrono when you arrive / every site visit".
IMO, should be a mandatory condition for being admitted to a skirmish with one's own gear (for reminders, skirmishing with your own gear is not a right, it's a courtesy afforded by the site operator).
I know I'm responsible enough to want to get my 552 chrono'd this coming Saturday, because there's a risk it may be borderline (what with a 1J spring, a tightbore, a 9.6V and shims/bushes all at once), but I also know I may well not be representative of the majority

johnboyire

i dont know what the big deal about getting crono'ed before a game is about, its not like people dont have the time as i would say a large group of players spend more time off the gaming zone talking shop and putting on their makeup -- sorry i mean warpaint,

dont get me wrong i am guilty of this too and the sport would be alot less fun if people didnt do this as before a game its a great way to learn about airsoft and meet the people your going out to tag,

my point is, pulling the trigger a few times in a cronograph takes 10 seconds it should be part of registration for a site and it will help stop rows and suspicion in game

Masada

ambro25 wrote: »

So, it's 328 FPS with 0,2gr, more with 0.12gr and less with 0,25gr.

Bullets, if you have FPS issues, might I suggest you use differing density BBs, rather than plead a really-not-insignificant legislative change at the initiative of an insignificant fringe/tiny core of hobbyists to cater for a yet even-more-insignificant issue?

ambro ya know that using differnet BBs is the same thing though dont ya? hevier BBs travell slower but carry more weight behind them so still 1J., not sure if im reading you right though.,;)

kevteljeur

Lads, I have an AEG (a clone) and a couple of GBBs which I'd like to like to test before I turn up to, for example, HRTA with all my kit and discover that I'm carrying some technically illegal gear and can't play. I did turn up and use it a week ago, but it wasn't tested onsite, and I'd like to stay on the right side of the legislation. If I was to join the IAA, could I arrange to get my kit tested some evening during a/the week?

I know it's not an IAA service, or that this is even a reason to join, but it would be damn handy and I'd arrange to do it in a second. As it is, has anyone got a chronograph outside of MIA?

My 2c on the testing; I'd be happy to do it every time, but you might get more mileage with the option of people signing every time on-site that their kit hasn't been modified since the last IAA-approved test (complete with cert). This would release site-owners from having to deal with the hassle, and people travelling distances would have peace of mind without having everyone buy their own chronograph. On the downside, the IAA would have to take on some of the donkeywork. I'd pay a few bucks for my cert.

ambro25

vtec wrote: »

ambro ya know that using differnet BBs is the same thing though dont ya? hevier BBs travell slower but carry more weight behind them so still 1J., not sure if im reading you right though.,;)

Yes I know.
And no, you're manifestly dislexic or something. (joke)

ambro25 wrote:

it's 328 FPS with 0,2gr, more (NDT:FPS) with 0.12gr and less (NDT:FPS) with 0,25gr.

Alvin T. Grey

Spetzcong wrote: »

I think in a perfect world that it would be wonderful to have a little bit of leeway with regards to fps, and perhaps, some day when the sport is more established we will. For the moment though we should be happy we can play at all, I imagine the IAA would be loath to try pushing their/our luck with the powers that be on the issue of fps when we as a sport are still very much unestablished and at the mercy of an unaccepting (so far) general public.

Unfortunatly Spetz, if you state a leeway, clever buggers (you know the ones) stop aiming for the limit, and start aiming for the leeway.
The only way you can work it is to make the limit hard, and never state a leeway exists.
My 2c on testing. Get it done before each game. Takes a second, and rules out the hassle afterwards.

kevteljeur

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

Unfortunatly Spetz, if you state a leeway, clever buggers (you know the ones) stop aiming for the limit, and start aiming for the leeway.
The only way you can work it is to make the limit hard, and never state a leeway exists.
My 2c on testing. Get it done before each game. Takes a second, and rules out the hassle afterwards.

Your actual target would be 315 fps, and your leeway is between 300 and 328. It's only human to aim for the tightest possible tolerance. In testing, 315 to 328 should be considered a warning/caution, and if you were to go with stickering, that would be a red sticker, with less than 315 being a green. It would enforce the notion that 328 isn't a target, but an absolute limit, especially since I've noticed that in the time I've been following this board that there is a culture of The Grail of 328 in Airsoft here.

Edit: I haven't really got a right to an opinion here, so a bit cheeky perhaps, but I love good compliance systems. Makes the world a happy place.