Do atheists really exist?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

these people seem to think not

http://occultireland.createforum.net/occultireland-about131-0-asc-0.html


i honestly never thought I'd say this, but you'd get more sense and reason on the christianity forum.

maybe I should ahve put this in religious humour, I dunno... but it's hilarious, terrifying, sad and of course, very very stupid.

Tomk1

I wonder if I should register with them just to say HOWDY. But occult/mythology/religion they are all the same, some spooky simple unrealistic answer to all quistions, and of course unsubstantiated and not being unprovable/provable.

I wonder if athe-Santa-ists exist.

Dave!

they're idiots, move on

Dades

Tomk1 wrote: »

I wonder if I should register with them just to say HOWDY.

Are you the "aZerogodist" who just registered with them?
It's a really old thread so they might frown on it - but I might just have to watch this!

Galvasean

DaveMcG wrote: »

they're idiots, move on

+1

I dont belive they exist, there is no proof.

jtsuited

who?

Andy-Pandy

I am a figment of my imagination.

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

Zillah

Fuck, that was a frustrating read.

"Science is just as much a religion as anything else. I've heard it called Scientism before, and think it is an apt title. I find the idea of "proof" really debateable. Most people who accept Science haven't seen its "proof" first-hand anyway, so they're going on second-hand information, or... belief. "

:mad:

DeVore

I want the last 15 minutes of my life back.

DeV.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I want my nick back.

we all gotta suffer.

Tim Robbins

Harry Butthole Potter wrote: »

I want my nick back.

we all gotta suffer.

Well a few of us went on for a rational debate about crystals and ended up getting banned.

http://occultireland.createforum.net/occultireland-about131-0-asc-60.html

Zombrex

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well a few of us went on for a rational debate about crystals and ended up getting banned.

http://occultireland.createforum.net/occultireland-about131-0-asc-60.html

I notice that we have been accused of hijacking their forum in an attempt to push our views and convert all of them

We are seemingly hypocrites (that seems to be the default insult to use against atheists).

Funny, I was under the impression that none of us went over there until they started posting insulting nonsense about atheism and atheists.

Pot, kettle and all that jazz

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well a few of us went on for a rational debate about crystals and ended up getting banned.[/url]

Ha, I enjoyed that.

The moment someone mentioned crystals that debate was doomed. In your defense it looks like you banned for just being of a different opinion. Then again maybe they spotted the Creationism Thread and panicked.

Well, now your atheist raiding party has been repelled, welcome back to your 'temple'.
Place those magic crystals you stole on the alter.

Wreck

I love the patronising way Frater Yechidah puts the word atheists in quotes when describing you.

(but then maybe these "athiests" didn't really understand my argument in the first place).

I also like the image the phrase an 'athiest crusade' conjures up

Zillah

Haha, he just banned them. How cowardly.

Athiests race in to push their beliefs (or lack thereof - whatever you want to call it) onto other people. I honestly don't care how much any of you argue that religion or belief is a pile of **** - you're simply not going to convert me to your system of belief, and I think it's high time that you wake up to your hypocrisy and realise that if you go around joining non-athiest forums so you can push your beliefs, you're just as bad as the fundamentalist Christians (and other religious groups) you claim to oppose.

Surely he's not equating fundamentalist attempts to convert by force and secular attempts to discuss with reason?

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME RATIONALLY YOU TYRANT!!!

Tim Robbins

Zillah wrote: »

Haha, he just banned them. How cowardly.



Surely he's not equating fundamentalist attempts to convert by force and secular attempts to discuss with reason?

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME RATIONALLY YOU TYRANT!!!

It's hillarious listening to Adder trying to bend over backwards trying to explain why crystals can't be tested
1. Hey Quantum Physics is confusing so this could be too?
2. Hey Model, Theory, Model, Proof, Idea, Model, Theory, insert buzzword here, Model, Abstract?
3. Is there anybody out there who can use crystals who can't get them to work?
The best one was though
4. It's wasn't an example, it was an analogy.
Superb. Makes Fair City look like Mastermind.

Zillah

The Quantum Mechanics one is always very interesting.


Did you know that reality is really really weird at the sub-atomic level? Well then that means reality is whatever I want it to be and I don't need to produce evidence or perform experiments to justify my crazy assertions.

Oh, oh, and another of my favourites is "It works for me!", implying some sort of useless solipsism-like argument.

Zombrex

Zillah wrote: »

Did you know that reality is really really weird at the sub-atomic level? Well then that means reality is whatever I want it to be and I don't need to produce evidence or perform evidence to justify my crazy assertions.

I must say I love that argument, when ever someone uses it you know you are winning the debate.

Its a bit like on the Christian forum where someone is currently arguing that biology understanding is updated all the time so how do we say people can't live for 900 years as described in the Bible. We might find out tomorrow that they can!!

If I made this stuff up I would be accused of presenting a slanderous view of theists

dlofnep

I just read that whole thread over there and I'm astounded that there are people still that unevolved in society.

CerebralCortex

dlofnep wrote: »

I just read that whole thread over there and I'm astounded that there are people still that unevolved in society.

Care to explain who exactly is "unevolved "(devolved?)?

Zombrex

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Care to explain who exactly is "unevolved "(devolved?)?

Yes, name names so we may point and mock ....

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

Yes, name names so we may point and mock ....

Point all you like... but less of the mocking.
(It doesn't reflect well on any of us, imho)

Zombrex

Dades wrote: »

Point all you like... but less of the mocking.
(It doesn't reflect well on any of us, imho)

Well, yes, I was being sarcastic for effect ... oh never mind ...

Zillah

dlofnep wrote: »

I just read that whole thread over there and I'm astounded that there are people still that unevolved in society.

+1 person who doesn't understand evolution.

Wicknight wrote: »

If I made this stuff up I would be accused of presenting a slanderous view of theists

Some day I'm just going to run out of energy and troll the crap out of theists for shits and giggles.

Not there yet but its starting to build.

ps, I accidently said "perform evidence" instead of experiments in my last post. Must pay more attention.

Sapien

The really unfortunate thing is that I'm reasonably certain that I could make a perfectly good case for crystal healing - as could many other people I know who are interested in the occult. You (pl.) can take that as a challenge if you like - probably best not in this thread. But, just as there are atheists who embarrass atheism in their arguments (I'm thinking more of some posters on politics.ie whom I have had many occasions to revile while arguing the same case), there are esotericists who give a very poor impression of the kind of thinking involved in the esoteric. Admittedly, the latter are proportionally more numerous than the former - but that's what makes it so much fun to be an intelligent magickian.

Zillah

Sapien wrote: »

The really unfortunate thing is that I'm reasonably certain that I could make a perfectly good case for crystal healing

- Do they have a real world effect involving a measurable improvement in health in a particular regard?
If no, then how can you say they heal?

If yes:
- Can this effect be shown to be more potent than a placebo?
If no, then how can you say they heal?

If yes:
- Why have no studies ever been done that show the wonderful effects of crystal healing?

Sapien

On your head be the moderatorial wrath.

Zillah wrote: »

- Do they have a real world effect involving a measurable improvement in health in a particular regard?

They absolutely could. I don't really know - I've have never used the things, and haven't read much on them either. Doesn't particularly appeal to me - a tad too close to "angel cards" and tie-dye t-shirts for my tastes.

Zillah wrote: »

- Can this effect be shown to be more potent than a placebo?

Probably not - though I'm not sure what the placebo could be in this instance. What do you suggest?

Zillah wrote: »

If no, then how can you say they heal?

They can heal by the placebo effect. Or something similar to the placebo effect, differing in that the patient doesn't need to be deceived about the nature of the treatment.

Zillah

Sapien wrote: »

Probably not - though I'm not sure what the placebo could be in this instance. What do you suggest?

Well, the "expert" in crystals chooses the correct type for healing and uses that. The placebo control group are only treated using simple coloured glass used by a normal un-psychic/untrained person.

C'est facile.

They can heal by the placebo effect. Or something similar to the placebo effect, differing in that the patient doesn't need to be deceived about the nature of the treatment.

So you can in fact not make a good argument for the healing effect of crystals, merely that you can demonstrate the placebo effect using crystals. I could do the same using sugar pills, I don't expect people to think thats anything special and nor should you. I'd also very much not expect people to think sugar pills had any sort of medicinal power.

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

Well, yes, I was being sarcastic for effect ... oh never mind ...

Ah, I know.
Just concerned the thread was turning into a point & mock!