4 Gardai Suspened Amid Assualt Claim

Sierra Oscar

Four members of the Gardai have been suspended over an allegation of an assualt, from RTE:

Four members of the gardaí have been suspended following an allegation of assault.

The four, who are of Garda rank and are from Dublin stations, were suspended today by Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy.

The Garda Ombudsman's Commission has confirmed that it is investigating the matter and has begun interviewing the relevant personnel.

It is believed a man has alleged that he was assaulted by the gardaí in a south city centre flat earlier this month.

He subsequently made a complaint to the GSOC.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0225/garda.html

Breaking News.ie has some info too - and it is important to remember that everything is in the early stages:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojaugbauau/

TheNog

Today's Indo reports that 2 are from Kevin St. and 2 from Kilmainham. 3 are male and 1 female. Apparently the fella assaulted made a complaint about a garda from another incident.

sunnyjim

They are suspended over an allegation?

Enough accusations, and a whole shift will be off the road

TheNog

I would hope that to be suspended there is some real evidence an assault did take place. Also reported in the Indo that management are trying to figure out why 4 Gardai were at this man's address in the first place.

She Devil

I guess there are certain rules for certain things ... but sometimes i think the in-house crew are a little too hard on the gardaí, surely they should still be allowed work .. innocent until proven guilty and all that???!
IMO this is where the scum win and intimidate the gardaí,various threats to them will back them off in fear they will lose their jobs over such accusations!
However i don't condone such behaviour IF it is found to be true!

Turner

Strange for the Commissioner to suspend at such an early stage of an investigation.

Maybe the force needed on the night was such that required the gardai to seriously injure the man.

There is no problem with the gardai doing that if it was required and as long as it was no more force than was necessary.

Hence let the Ombudsmans investigators (who are mostly ex cops) report their findings and reallocate the gardai back on duty.

OR

the cops may have battered him senseless for no reason, instances like that are always going to happen in any police force when humans lose their temper.

Trojan911

Chief--- wrote: »

Hence let the Ombudsmans investigators (who are mostly ex cops) report their findings and reallocate the gardai back on duty.

Lets hope they remain impartial then.

Turner

Sorry, as far as i know all the 46 ombudsman investigators are ex cops from around the world.

Its good that they all have experience of front line policiing and know what cops nowadays are up against.

Eru

My first thought is that this system is very similar to the original system in place when the complaints board was started.

What message does this send out? Make complaints and pretty soon there are no Gardai left as happened in Tallaght with the prossies.

The fact that there were 4 there would indicate that it was 2 car crews. Possible due to the previous incident the Garda wanted witnesses or backup. Either way it hasnt worked.

I do find it strange that the compaint was made a week later and by the mans mother if reports are accurate. He is 19 not a baby!

If its true then they are idiots.

Chief--- wrote: »

Sorry, as far as i know all the 46 ombudsman investigators are ex cops from around the world.

Its good that they all have experience of front line policiing and know what cops nowadays are up against.

They are also eager for results to justify their existence and inflated wages (twice an average Garda). Why else would they have made such a dramatic emtry in the coroners court on the last day of the Lusk inquiry?

Traumadoc

While a lot of us have sympathy for the Gardai and the abuse they face on a daily basis, the loss of control and the naked face of police brutality at the May Day "riot" a few years ago has eroded the confdence a lot of the public had.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

They are also eager for results to justify their existence and inflated wages (twice an average Garda). Why else would they have made such a dramatic emtry in the coroners court on the last day of the Lusk inquiry?

And at Harcourt Sq last year, Tralee last year. In both occasions they completely shut down the stations which was bit OTT and gung-ho. This time however they seem to be using a bit more discretion.

Sierra Oscar

TheNog wrote: »

And at Harcourt Sq last year, Tralee last year. In both occasions they completely shut down the stations which was bit OTT and gung-ho. This time however they seem to be using a bit more discretion.

I remember reading about the Ombusmen's actions in Harcourt Sq last year. It really does look like there was no need for such a dramatic entry.

Anyway, no information on this today it seems. I guess we wont hear much until the investigation has concluded.

eroo

What everyone has to remember is that the GOC is still finding its feet..it's learning from mistakes and gaining experience.

Eru

TheNog wrote: »

And at Harcourt Sq last year, Tralee last year. In both occasions they completely shut down the stations which was bit OTT and gung-ho. This time however they seem to be using a bit more discretion.

Yes, heard it was a disgrace ok, demanding statements and names from men that had just found their friend in that condition. Wouldnt back down until the chaplain asked them to leave and learn some compassion.

What I dont get is why they have sirens and lights, when will they be going to a life and death emergency call? They handle after the event complaints!

TheNog

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I remember reading about the Ombusmen's actions in Harcourt Sq last year. It really does look like there was no need for such a dramatic entry.

Dramatic entry indeed. I could almost picture them acting like Miami Vice, wearing sunglasses riding a speedboat on the Liffey with their Hawaiian shirts blowing in the breeze.

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

What I dont get is why they have sirens and lights, when will they be going to a life and death emergency call? They handle after the event complaints!

That is a very valid point. Why do they have lights and sirens?
Suppose maybe if they needed to chase a patrol car to question the observer on why he didn't iron his shirt!!!
And why the hell do they get cool cars with nice paint jobs when we get the likes of Opel Astras, Ford Focusetc?

sunnyjim

I thought the same as you Nog when I saw the car driving around Fairview.

Shocking really, decent cars for doing sweet F-all!

the locust

Saw GOC jeeps at HQ yesterday, allegedly investigating the 4 suspended. Dude in the jeep was starin me out of it!

the locust

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Yes, heard it was a disgrace ok, demanding statements and names from men that had just found their friend in that condition. Wouldnt back down until the chaplain asked them to leave and learn some compassion.

What I dont get is why they have sirens and lights, when will they be going to a life and death emergency call? They handle after the event complaints!

I suppose they have to investigate Road Traffic Collisions just as Gardai do and may need lights, not for chasing but for getting to a scene and for High Viz at a Traffic Accident

TheNog

the locust wrote: »

I suppose they have to investigate Road Traffic Collisions just as Gardai do and may need lights, not for chasing but for getting to a scene and for High Viz at a Traffic Accident

Curse you Locust I'm still holding onto my vision of Crocket and Tubbs

cushtac

Trojan911 wrote: »

Lets hope they remain impartial then.

As far as I know, all the investigators are from the UK & other common law countries. They have no reason to side with the Gardai.

Trojan911

cushtac wrote: »

As far as I know, all the investigators are from the UK & other common law countries. They have no reason to side with the Gardai.

It would be seen to be open, honest a fair then which will silence the critical public "cover up" mantra.

Eru

the locust wrote: »

I suppose they have to investigate Road Traffic Collisions just as Gardai do and may need lights, not for chasing but for getting to a scene and for High Viz at a Traffic Accident

But thats my point, its for 'emergancy use'. They arent emergency responders. They dont rush to scenes to save lives or arrest dangerous criminals who are hurting people.

A car crash involving a Garda will only be apparant after Gardai are at scene and establish the identity of all parties. They wont get the call until after Gardai and / or ambulance are at the scene. Besides, they can only take over a scene if the allegation against Gardai is more serious than what the Gardai are investigating such as a minor traffic stop which results in a Garda doing a Rodney King and when has that happened?

remmurts

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

...a minor traffic stop which results in a Garda doing a Rodney King and when has that happened?

Fairbrother !!! (I'm going back years here)

He did manage to hoodwink a lot of media and polite society with his "tale." He got a big payout. Several Gardai were reassigned under a cloud...but they came out of it pretty well. Not sure they outcome would be as favourable to the police with the new Ombudsman investigating.

Eru

remmurts wrote: »

Fairbrother !!! (I'm going back years here)

He did manage to hoodwink a lot of media and polite society with his "tale." He got a big payout. Several Gardai were reassigned under a cloud...but they came out of it pretty well. Not sure they outcome would be as favourable to the police with the new Ombudsman investigating.

And yet the compaint was still after the incident not during which is the point im trying to make. If that happened now it would still be at least a day later that the ombudsman became involved which means no siren is necessary.

I just cant see any genuine reason for them too be marked with lights and sirens. Its media whoring at its finest so everytime they roll out the door or upto a station the media and public will see it.

Trojan911

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Its media whoring at its finest so everytime they roll out the door or upto a station the media and public will see it.

It is I agree, and the media feed on this new aspect in policing, however, look at it this way. The GOC are being seen to arrive at the "scene" to deal with an allegation/investigation. It will quell the non believers of saying the usual "cover up".

It is positive media for the Gardai. No one can no longer say that complaints are being covered up.

The four members that have been suspended, in my opinion, are going throught a process, which is new to the force, and if they have nothing to fear they will be exonorated & returned to duty. It is part of the package of being a member. Times have changed.

TheNog

remmurts wrote: »

Fairbrother !!! (I'm going back years here)

He did manage to hoodwink a lot of media and polite society with his "tale." He got a big payout. Several Gardai were reassigned under a cloud...but they came out of it pretty well. Not sure they outcome would be as favourable to the police with the new Ombudsman investigating.

I tried google ing Fairbrother's name and came up with the incident and court judgement only.

What was his "tale"? and what was the outcome for the Gardai? I can only find the two skippers were sent forward for a tribunal

vasch_ro

my understanding is that in the early days they blue lighted it here and there, but no longer, they have no legal basis under the Road Traffic Act to be fitted with blue lights which are for emergency vehicles only.

sunnyjim

Here it is Nog.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0382/D.0382.198806210132.html

Holy ****.

TheNog

sunnyjim wrote: »

Here it is Nog.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0382/D.0382.198806210132.html

Holy ****.

Seems like a terrible thing done on him. I could never stand back and watch a prisoner being beaten no matter what he did.

eroo

Tbh,I think Gardai who behave like that or even give someone 'a few slaps' as it used to be,is THE worst sort of criminal there is.Simply because it is a sickening and disgusting abuse of power,instead of protecting and serving those in the community..I personally believe any Gardai who assault anyone on or off-duty should be axed from the force.

Incidents like the Fairbrother story are what turns people against the vast majority decent Garda force,all due to the action of a few degenerates.I personally believe the days of 'a few slaps' are gone .Obviously,in EVERY police force there will ALWAYS be those who abuse their powers but they always have been,and always will be a minority.

Finally,I think the GOC is something that will only benefit the Gardai.It will take time to get its feet on the ground....but I think it will help restore some peoples confidence in GS when they see that it isn't Gardai investigating Gardai anymore..and in some cases it's not even Irish investigating Irish..they will change their views.
Again,cases like the Fairbrother one just show how the actions of a few can determine some of the publics opinion on the majority.


Rant over..I feel better now!

remmurts

The link you have posted is Fairbrother's version of events. Dick Spring's name was forever dirt among the membership because he stood up in the Dail and gave, as gospel, one side of the story. It never occured to him to wait until the investigation was complete.

The Gardai involved gave a completely different account of events. Dick Spring never mentioned their side of the story in his remarks.