What changes for Welsh match ??

redmca

If EOS takes off his blinkers then the only changes to Saturday's team for the Wales match should be POC in place of MOD, & Best to start, Jackman on the bench.

buck65

Best should start, surely Jackman's failure to hit his man in 2 games outweighs his contribution in the loose where he is lively. Murphy has to be full back , he deserves his chance and take him off if he's not playing well. O Driscoll should start ahead of o Connell , what an impact sub! The rest I would leave alone. Eddie has his best team by default. Heaslip Kearney Trimble and Bowe have added massively to this team.

Podge_irl

I'd be tempted to change one or two subs, but I think the team as started against Scotland has to start again bar Best for Jackman. If O'Connell gets some gametime for Munster this weekend then he might replace O'Driscoll. I just pray he doesn't try and shove Horgan in there somehow.

Killme00

Paul O Connell looked great when he came on. I hope he is fit enough to start against Wales with Mick dropping to the bench.

Best must start ahead of Jackman. Is Flannery good to go yet?

I thought the backrow were excellent but would like to see us challenging for the ball more on the ground. Perhaps dropping Easterbunny from the squad a bringing a different back option.

Bowe, Kearney and Murphy played very well but we will need more cohesiveness in terms of covering for each other when we play Wales. Same backthree to start with Horgan on the bench as cover.

smok

Podge_irl wrote: »

I just pray he doesn't try and shove Horgan in there somehow.

???!?!?!?!!!
Theres gratitude for zero bad games for Ireland in his whole career there for you!

toomevara

No changes...give Jackman a second chance.

Killme00

Killme00 wrote: »

Paul O Connell looked great when he came on. I hope he is fit enough to start against Wales with Mick dropping to the bench.

Best must start ahead of Jackman. Is Flannery good to go yet?

I thought the backrow were excellent but would like to see us challenging for the ball more on the ground. Perhaps dropping Easterbunny from the squad a bringing a different back option.

Bowe, Kearney and Murphy played very well but we will need more cohesiveness in terms of covering for each other when we play Wales. Same backthree to start with Horgan on the bench as cover.

Actually every time Murphy went forward Kearney sat back into the full back position. Tbh they did this very well.

I think our main problem is a lack of an out and out 7 for winning ball on the floor. otherwise i like the look of this team, but we need to start quicker and get into games early.

siochain

toomevara wrote: »

No changes...give Jackman a second chance.

+1

smok

smok wrote: »

???!?!?!?!!!
Theres gratitude for zero bad games for Ireland in his whole career there for you!

What about Bowe, Kearney and Murphy? They were key to how we won on saturday, gratitude indeed.

thedarkknight

Judging by Edddie interview after the match, i would say Dempsey will get back in

dub_skav

thedarkknight wrote: »

Judging by Edddie interview after the match, i would say Dempsey will get back in

It did take Murphy a while to get into the game, also his positioning defensively seemed (to my completely ignorant eyes) a little off. By that I mean he seemed to not get to a lot of the high balls - his outstanding catch for the try aside.

Seeing as he did settle in well eventually it would be very harsh to drop him.

Goodluck2me

thedarkknight wrote: »

Judging by Edddie interview after the match, i would say Dempsey will get back in

Murphy was Man of the Match so obv he will be dropped, just like he was dropped from the squad and obviosuly started.

Podge_irl

smok wrote: »

???!?!?!?!!!
Theres gratitude for zero bad games for Ireland in his whole career there for you!

He most definitely has had bad games but that's rather beside the point. He hasn't earned the place and has looked off-form for a while for Leinster even before he was injured. Bowe and Kearney did well and deserve to keep their places, simply dropping experienced players in as soon as they are fit again is bad management imo and something EOS has been guilty of before.

chris85

Jackman has to be dropped against Wales. He choked big time. Being able to hit your man in the line out is bread and butter stuff for a hooker. Doesnt matter how well he is everywhere else when every lineout is in doubt.

I think POC should start ahead of MOD but it is a tough call.

Keep the backline the same, seemed to work well. Possibly switch BOD and Trimble as I think this would suit them better

louthandproud

siochain wrote: »

+1

+2, Is Flannery fit to take a place on Sub bench yet?

MikeHoncho

Depending in how he gets on this weekend I might bring POC back in. I would certainly like to have him match fit for Twickenham.

Best should start. Jackman will work well off the bench if needed.

The fullback one is a can of worms and I dont envy Eddie having to make this call.

Did Murphy play really well on Sunday? - Yes.

Was he ever really tested defensivley by a Scotland team with absolutly no teeth at all? - No.

Wales have some really dangerous strike runners would Dempsey be the better option in terms of defence? - Yes.

Will Irelands rugby public cry blue murder if Murphy isnt picked at fullback? - Probably.

Its a really tough call. Murphy plays well again against mediocre competition. But he really did look dangerous at times.

toomevara

chris85 wrote: »

Jackman has to be dropped against Wales. He choked big time. Being able to hit your man in the line out is bread and butter stuff for a hooker. Doesnt matter how well he is everywhere else when every lineout is in doubt.

Can we please get away from the idea that all a hooker has to do is "hit his man". The call has to be heard, the execution/movement in the lineout has to be right, the lift has to be good, and yes the throw has to be accurate....There was very poor movement in the Irish lineout on Saturday and it looked to me that some calls had either been misread, misheard or misinterpreted.....

yes the hooker has a huge responsibility but there are alot of other factors to consider. Jackman should be given another chance....

I am pie

jackman to be dropped, all the other "variables" in the lineout didn't detract from Best hitting his men. His throwing has been his achilles heel for a long time and while he gives a lot elsewhere possession is critical from the set pieces and Jacko didn't deliver.

Possibly someone earlier in his career should has identified this issue and suggested he become a prop ? Could he come off the bench in that position, shame to loose his ferocity and ball carrying ability ? Just a thought.

Best to start, reliable at set pieces and defended resolutely.

When Horgan is fully sit, he has to play...not sure who out of Howe & Kearney i'd drop though, both too took their chances well. Why does oul George Hook not fancy Bowe !!

redmca

MikeHoncho wrote: »

The fullback one is a can of worms and I dont envy Eddie having to make this call.
Did Murphy play really well on Saturday? - Yes.
Was he ever really tested defensivley by a Scotland team with absolutly no teeth at all? - No.
Wales have some really dangerous strike runners would Dempsey be the better option in terms of defence? - Yes.
Will Irelands rugby public cry blue murder if Murphy isnt picked at fullback? - Probably.
Its a really tough call. Murphy plays well again against mediocre competition. But he really did look dangerous at times.

Is winning the same thing as not losing??
If we want to WIN against Wales, then pick MURPHY
If we don't want to LOSE then pick DEMPSEY

EOS is wthout doubt in the DON'T LOSE category, while I would bet that the media and majority of the paying public are in the WIN camp. I've said it before: both Dempsey & Stringer have been on the team for far too long not because they do anything to win the games, but because they have never lost us a game either. EOS' line will probably be to pick Dempsey "because he has done nothing wrong to warrant him losing his place".

I would far prefer to WIN 35-29 than NOT to LOSE 15-12

Crash

Best missed most of the time as well - just happened to hit one or two times more than Jackman.

In my mind, the entire tight five, and ESPECIALLY whoever was calling, deserve to get their asses handed to them on a plate - the scots never should have been up in the air faster than em, and it was a disgrace that it was.

Stev_o

redmca wrote: »

Is winning the same thing as not losing??
If we want to WIN against Wales, then pick MURPHY
If we don't want to LOSE then pick DEMPSEY

EOS is wthout doubt in the DON'T LOSE category, while I would bet that the media and majority of the paying public are in the WIN camp. I've said it before: both Dempsey & Stringer have been on the team for far too long not because they do anything to win the games, but because they have never lost us a game either. EOS' line will probably be to pick Dempsey "because he has done nothing wrong to warrant him losing his place".

I would far prefer to WIN 35-29 than NOT to LOSE 15-12

You got it so very right there. 1 + To you!

toomevara

çrash_000 wrote: »

In my mind, the entire tight five, and ESPECIALLY whoever was calling, deserve to get their asses handed to them on a plate - the scots never should have been up in the air faster than em, and it was a disgrace that it was.

Spot on.

quagmire69

best in, thats it.

i fear dempsey and horgan will start too. eddie will give an excuse like "horses for courses" or some crap like that. Hope i'm wrong though and he leaves at least one in.

i'd have horgan on bench instead of dempsey. easterbunny out for quinlan/gleeson/jennings.

Kearney for full back permanently after 6nations.

athtrasna

Ideally -

Stringer in for Reddan (AT dives for cover!)
No other changes to the backs

Flannery in the XV, Best in the XXII - Jackman gone
Easterby dropped from the bench to be replaced by Quinlan

toomevara

athtrasna wrote: »

Ideally -

Stringer in for Reddan (AT dives for cover!)

We've all got our fetishes I spose......;)

steelbar

redmca wrote: »

Is winning the same thing as not losing??
If we want to WIN against Wales, then pick MURPHY
If we don't want to LOSE then pick DEMPSEY

EOS is wthout doubt in the DON'T LOSE category, while I would bet that the media and majority of the paying public are in the WIN camp. I've said it before: both Dempsey & Stringer have been on the team for far too long not because they do anything to win the games, but because they have never lost us a game either. EOS' line will probably be to pick Dempsey "because he has done nothing wrong to warrant him losing his place".

I would far prefer to WIN 35-29 than NOT to LOSE 15-12

WE all know that good auld EOS will pick his favourites, members of the "golden XV" in the world cup that did us so proud.

This means that POC, Horgan, Dempsey will be back in. I wouldnt be suprised to see Flannery there either.

Murphy,Mick O (who has really shined for munster and Ireland) and one of Trimble/Kearney/Bowe will be gone.

Also what is is about him playing people of of positon, putting centres & fullbacks on the wings, playing blindsides on the openside, etc


We need a change at of management.
He has to go, but Im afraid if we do manage to actually win this year he will stay

vorbis

I'm certainly not a EOS supporter (still think he should be sacked) but I wouldn't be annoyed if he brings Dempsey back in. Murphy played well but the Scots really offered nothing to trouble him.

People are using the fact that he was played out of position as an excuse for the French match. I don't buy it. Given his preferred position is full back, the ability to tackle is even more important! Murphy is simply poor at tackling. He's been found out several times in one on one situations. No matter how good you are going forward, a full back who's not a reliable tackler just doesn't work.

Jackman imo has wasted his chance. The lineout as a whole didn't work very well but Best was an improvement. If Flannery is finished with his ban, i'd bring him straight back in.

chris85

Flannery is far superior at the lineout and does well around the field. Even though the calls werent great (POC should unite the lineout against Wales), Jackman's throwing was still well below par. The balls he was throwing in were slow and easy to steal. if a hooker cant throw there is no point him being on the pitch.

I see the point that the lineout was bad and I think POC will improve this substantially but Jackman was still woeful and we cant blame all the lineout problems on the rest just because we all wanted him there so much.

Flannery in next game on the bench, Best to start, Jackman dropped.

Crash

But here's the thing with jackman/best - we know best is a better thrower, thats been proven time after time. So if they're both missing lineouts, with best only marginally better, than how can you turn around and blame jackman? his throwing was poor, fair enough, and he deserves to be slated for it.

But to blame the entire of that ****ed up lineout on one person its ridiculuous.

chris85

çrash_000 wrote: »

But here's the thing with jackman/best - we know best is a better thrower, thats been proven time after time. So if they're both missing lineouts, with best only marginally better, than how can you turn around and blame jackman? his throwing was poor, fair enough, and he deserves to be slated for it.

But to blame the entire of that ****ed up lineout on one person its ridiculuous.

I agree that Jackman cant be blamed for it all but POC will sort the line out I have no doubt. jackman is not the way to go for a good lineout and Ireland need a good lineout against Wales or we will get destroyed on the counter attack

dc69

chris85 wrote: »

I agree that Jackman cant be blamed for it all but POC will sort the line out I have no doubt. jackman is not the way to go for a good lineout and Ireland need a good lineout against Wales or we will get destroyed on the counter attack

completely agree,i like jackman and wanted him to play but against wales we need 100% lineout and unfortunately bernard at this time cant provide this.His work in the loose offers something different from flannery or best but for this occasion i would like one of the other and maybe introduse him with 20 mins to go along with POC

figs86

siochain wrote: »

+1

+1 for me too

same team to start,

jackman highly unlikely to have shaky throwing again, in fact he's far more likely to play well now, even just goin on stats - he's had bad game, therefore he's due one

paul o connell and shaggy to come on as impact subs for MOD and trimble

and hopefully geordan will stick a big 2 fingers up at eddie again

Junior

I would think that the Scotland game was Jackman's second chance ?

I would have liked to have seen Cullen in the lineout by now and haven gotten some game time. But I can't see him getting a jersey now..

However based around the team I would probably make one change, I'd start Mushy for Bull, and make an attempt to destroy the welsh scrum at every chance. I know they like broken play, but broken play is fine when your going forward, but going backwards it's a different thing.

redmca

Gerrry Thornley talks today in the Irish Times of the scoring rate of the Welsh especially in the 2nd half.

I think we are well set to dominate the 3rd & 4th quarters by the introduction of impact subs, even if this is foreign territory for EOS.
If Best & MOD start, and otherwise same XV as against Scotland, then we should bring in POC, Buckley, Jackman, Horgan between 50 & 60 minutes. I would really like to see a real Nr 7 being available off the bench, probably Jennings, as he seems to be the one that EOS least hates (seeing as he hates all Nr 7's !!!).

I think Best will provide a better lineout platform but Jackman the better impact later on, similar argument with POC, tho' if he's 100% fit one has to assume he will start. In that case, I would drop MOD completely and bring in Quinlan to the bench.

steelbar

I know POC is a great player, but does he deserve a start? How many matches has he played in the last few months? 2 1/2? No matter how good he is, he cant be match fit, esp for such an important one.

I am pie

just read that Jackman made the least yards, gave away the most penalties and made the least tackles.

Drop him.

Case closed.

Stealdo

Sometimes I wonder how people have such short memories, or is it the case that they have only watched the last 3 games?

In so far as selection is concerned, I don't think there's any question about who Eddie will select at prop, in the back row, at half back, or centre so those positions are secure. I think Kearney is ahead of Bowe in his thinking and so is safe at 11, DOC is ahead of MOD and so is safe in the second row. So that leaves 2, 5, 14 and 15 that are conceivably up for grabs for the Wales game, with Buckley, Stringer and Wallace being the only ones on the bench that I would see as being safe of neither losing out or making the 15, so 16, 18, 19 and 22 are up for grabs also.

On the 2/16 question, this is one of the places where short memories are affecting people's opinions. Rory Best is by no means a safe option at the lineout, and his throwing could only be considered to be on a par with Jackman's over the past couple of seasons (i.e. look further back that last Saturday). Analysing the lineout (looking slightly further back than last Saturday) we lost a ton of lineout ball in Paris even when Jackman's throwing was largely spot on, this was because the calling, lifting, organisation of the jumpers was awful. France had a man in he air marginally in front of our guy before are guy was up all day long. No hooker could have made a difference. The same thing happened against Scotland, only this time Jackman's throwing was way off as well making it even worse. If Flannery's hand is sorted he is the only option for safe lineout throwing and even then there are serious other problems that need to be sorted. Jackman would make the bench ahead of Best easily in terms of impact. Best is a 75 minute sub. Anyone comparing the throwing of two hookers solely based on one game doesn't understand how the lineout evolves during the course of a game, with generally the unit gettting more co-hesive as the game goes on, the caller learning what's working and what's getting picked off. Therefore it's a lot easier for a thrower to come into a game 50 - 60 mins in than it is to start. I would go for Jackman on the bench for impact with Flannery starting if fit, Best starting if not.

While Mick O'Driscoll added something to the team in Paris, and seems to be the only Irish forward who can take a re-start, there are some major problems with the lineout as above, that are indepedent of the throwing. He was the one making the calls on Saturday and so has to take some of the responsibility. It's hard to place the blame on his as from above it was as bad in Paris while he was sitting on the bench. On that basis I would retain MOD primarily for his re-start taking as I think that will be key against the welsh. After scoring, securing your own ball is off huge importance against a 'broken field' team. POC to get 30 mins off the bench with an eye to starting in Twickenham.

The 14/15 question is a big one I think. My cards are already on the table in terms of where I stand on the Murphy/Dempsey debate. I said before the Scotland game that Murphy's performance in that one game would make not a jot of difference regardless of how good/bad it was to the fact that he has been consistently poor defensively down the years. I actually laughed when Matthews gave him the MotM award, it was a ridiculously sentimental gesture. He had a decent performance, ran good lines going forward, but was never truly tested defensively, and his defensive positioning was highly questionable all day (see the amount of possession Kearney mopped up around the full back area). I would happily see Dempsey back in for the Wales game where as some have mentioned a full back who can tackle will be required. With Dempsey in at 15, it's an easy pick to retain Bowe at 14, cos I think even the Murphy apologists at this stage could not make an argument for including him on the wing.

In the subs I mentioned that I think Jackman should have 16 regardless of who starts; POC gets 18 by default as MOD should start. Simon Easterby doesn't offer much off the bench in terms of impact, and so I would prefer to see Quinlan there, especially if there is any lingering doubt about POC's fitness. That just leaves number 22, where while it's harsh on Murphy who didn't do anything too wrong the last day, he offers very little viable cover (no matter what anyone thinks) and so while he could make an impact I think Horgan is to come on for Bowe for 30 minutes and have a few runs at Shane Williams would be a nice prospect. Although I would not consider Horgan to be an international class centre he offers moderate cover there, and Kearney offers cover for full back.

Stealdo

I am pie wrote: »

just read that Jackman made the least yards, gave away the most penalties and made the least tackles.

Drop him.

Case closed.

Where?

chris85

Stealdo, i understand your points of looking back at players record in the last year, jackman has been good, so has best. We have to look on current form which Jackman is lacking unfortunately. We are always giving out that EOS is not picking on current form and Best is better and the moment, albeit not by much.

Stealdo

chris85 wrote: »

Stealdo, i understand your points of looking back at players record in the last year, jackman has been good, so has best. We have to look on current form which Jackman is lacking unfortunately. We are always giving out that EOS is not picking on current form and Best is better and the moment, albeit not by much.

Yep agreed Chris, I would have him starting if Flannery doesn't make it. With Jackman on bench, but I would have Jackman on bench ahead of Best if Flannery does make it, as I think he's a better option off the bench when the game has broken up a bit. You're right though, I don't think it would be right to start Jackman.

juvenal

Flannery or Jackman are better impact subs than Best is, ergo, if Flannery is fit start him and then Jackman adds a serious amount after 50mins and has something to prove.

Full back for me is Murphy by a shade of a shade. If he doesn't start then he shouldn't be in the 22, as he is a full back, not cover for a winger, and having an out-and-out full back on the bench doesn't cover well.

Otherwise the back line remain the same, with Horgan on the bench as a massive impact sub. I'm undecided on PO'C, as while he may be also a great impact sub, perhaps he's better being in from the start to lay down a marker. Although I think on fitness levels he should probably start on the bench. This weekend's ML games will decide it for me.

chris85

Stealdo wrote: »

Yep agreed Chris, I would have him starting if Flannery doesn't make it. With Jackman on bench, but I would have Jackman on bench ahead of Best if Flannery does make it, as I think he's a better option off the bench when the game has broken up a bit. You're right though, I don't think it would be right to start Jackman.

Yeah i hope he doesnt start tbh. I hope Flannery can start but EOS wont start a player straight after injury.

I kinda agree that he would be a good impact sub in a way. My belief is that a good scrum/lineout is the basis for a good team to play off (we should all agree here ), I would be afraid that Jackman would come in as an impact player but would not impact at all and may do some harm if he cant get it right.

Crash

Its weird, a part of me would like to see o'connell or another lock start ahead of MOD against wales. Not because Micko has been playing badly, but simply because he makes an awesome impact sub, and he can really turn it on and change the game a bit. But thats just my crazy mind whirring away

athtrasna

çrash_000 wrote: »

Its weird, a part of me would like to see o'connell or another lock start ahead of MOD against wales. Not because Malcolm has been playing badly, but simply because he makes an awesome impact sub, and he can really turn it on and change the game a bit. But thats just my crazy mind whirring away

Malcolm?? Are you mixing your second rows? MOD = Mick O'Driscoll, MOK = Malcolm O'Kelly??

Crash

Bah, sorry late night.

smok

Podge_irl wrote: »

He most definitely has had bad games but that's rather beside the point. He hasn't earned the place and has looked off-form for a while for Leinster even before he was injured. Bowe and Kearney did well and deserve to keep their places, simply dropping experienced players in as soon as they are fit again is bad management imo and something EOS has been guilty of before.

For me Horgan is one of the most consistant players I have ever seen for Ireland.
Im not suggesting that Horgan stroll back into the team(I agree about the back 3 retaining thier spot) but I think that you were very extreme in your language about him. I would have no doubts that Horgan would do a good job yet again.
I have question marks over Trimble at 12 - he did very well defensively against Scoland though. I also question Bowes potential to be an elite winger as well.

redmca

With both Murphy & Dempsey struggling with fitness, I reckon the back 3 against Wales will be :
Horgan, Bowe, Kearney at 15

Who is left to put on the bench? Fitzgerald?

Crash

So, Rory Best released off international duty at the weekend - hint that he won't be starting come saturday?

chris85

çrash_000 wrote: »

So, Rory Best released off international duty at the weekend - hint that he won't be starting come saturday?

Murphy also was released which wasnt a great decision seeing as though Girvan isnt 100% and now Murphy might not be able to play due to picking up an injury

monaghanbiffo

chris85 wrote: »

Murphy also was released which wasnt a great decision seeing as though Girvan isnt 100% and now Murphy might not be able to play due to picking up an injury

Murphy is contracted to Leicester, The decision ultimately does not lie with the IRFU as it would for Best, and other home based players, who for the most part are centrally contracted

Podge_irl

çrash_000 wrote: »

So, Rory Best released off international duty at the weekend - hint that he won't be starting come saturday?

The subs from the previous week are always released, it has nothing to do with the selection for the following week's game. Same thing happened with Trimble being released and Bowe not being after France 2006, even though Trimble started the following game and Bowe did not.