My Ridiculous Banning From Poker Forum

KashMachine

Just to highlight a ridiculous decision made by Ste05 to ban me from the poker forum for.....and i quote directly from his PM

'I've banned you from Poker, I'm sick of people coming in with new accounts just stirring sh1t.If you want to come back and aren't just going to troll and post sh1te, I'll lift your ban in a week'.



As you can see it's pretty short, not so sweet and a bribed judge would have difficulty siding with such a flimsy, off the cuff, load of nonsense ruling.

Just to clear things up for any of you who are suspecting I'm not giving you the full details.

Here is my short history on Boards.ie...let me know if it warrants such a ban.

I play poker and am passionate about the game which i just started playing 14 months ago. Always trying to improve my game a learn more, I heard people talking about boards.ie as a good place to go to read and learn and socialise (in the virtual sense obviously) with people who share a common passion. So I started reading through the site for anything and everything that i could find useful. I found alot of good stuff.
So anyway having registered about 4 weeks ago i've been mostly reading as i don't feel like i have much to ad that can help. I'm not big on the small talk that goes on on the Poker forum but hey that's fine if your into it but i don't waste time with it. I've made 4 posts to date. 2 were questions about poker. e.g. how important is rakeback to profit and another regarding a hand i played and whether my Aces were cracked. i also replied to another guy's post on his question regarding what his odds of winning had were. I replied to this because I felt it was one area where i have something to offer....the mathematical side. I think i gave a pretty clear and accurate response. The thing is I like maths and have a pretty good apptitude for maths having excelled in the subject at secondary school and 3rd level. Now the last post I made was what I meant as a light hearted response to yes, you've guessed it, a maths post in the theory section of the poker forum. After reading a nicely scripted piece explaining the calculation of the fold equity of a particular hand i thought to myself...wow that's cool.......it's the first time I've ever seen anyone explain the maths so consisely....anywhere.....so i posted a tongue-in-cheek reply.....saying 'i just had an orgasm' having read through the piece. it was supposed to be taken in irony but unfortunately it was taken as dimwit.

So that's the sum-total of my boards.ie life. Does anyone see where i 'stirred sh1te' or ‘trolled’? If you want to see some ****e str1rring look no further than posts such as the 'petition for the change of BCB's name'. That gets pretty personal eh? And if my poorly timed humour is classed as ****e (which is okay by the way) then check out bascically 20-25% of the poker forum for ****e of a similar class. We're talking serious DOUBLE STANDARDS here.

Lastly and i think this is the most revealing when it comes to the double standards and poor judgement made by Ste05.

If you look a the statement it effectively says.....I'm sick...(him)......of people doing said strirring and trolling.............and i'm banning you to punish this sort of thing even though i am not giving you any evidence of said stirring/trolling or why it is so bad in this instance.

Ste05, whoever you are, you need to get real. This is not the way to treat a newcomer. I just hope you come out of the fog and see you made a bad call here and just lighten up a little.

noel keane, Kashmachine on boards

AlmightyCushion

When he says trolling he means this.

Nerin

1. trollingBeing a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.
Guy: "I just found the coolest ninja pencil in existence."
Other Guy: "I just found the most retarded thread in existence."







2. trolling


Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet, generally on message boards. When done in a moderated internet community, this can result in banning. When done to uptight people such as fundies, this can result in hilarity.
Apparently I can't post links here, so I can't give a good example of trolling. Sorry.







http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

ps dammit!!! beaten to it by almightycushion

KashMachine

i took it in the traditional sense (i.e. fishing).
anyway i'll edit and repost as it doesn't affect my argument in essense.
thanks alot guys

Talliesin

Taking you on your word. Here's three tips:

1. When you are new in any given situation where people have been longer there will be certain things that you will not understand.
   
   Some of these things will be rather silly - like "don't use that cup for your tea, only granny uses that cup" - and some rather serious - like "don't use that electrical socket there's a lose wire near by that we haven't fixed yet and whether you die or merely feel a sharp pain and smell your own flesh burning will depend mainly on how conductive your shoes are".
   
   If you hit one of these the winning approach is to accept that there is information you are lacking. The losing approach is to assume that you know exactly what the score is and act on the basis of whatever you have decided are the facts of the matter.
   
   "I'm sick of people coming in with new accounts just" clearly refers to things that have happened before you claim to have started on this forum. Hence you're in the sort of scenario I describe above. If you play poker, I'm sure you know enough about game theory to work out the rest.
   
   Hence your ban could well be sucky, it could even be unfair, but you can't actually know if it's ridiculous, can you?
   
   
   
2. You've just called yourself an utter asshole that should be immediately banned from the entire site. This is either because you are an utter asshole that should immediately be banned from the entire site and find it amusing to play at being ignorant, or because you don't know what "trolling" means.
   
   While both terms come from types of fishing, there is a difference between trawling and trolling. The latter is frowned upon and as such it's not considered acceptable to do, or to accuse others of doing.
   
   
   
3. Putting your email address in a post is generally a bad idea, though there are times when it's worth doing. On feedback it's probably never a good idea.
   
   Probably the best that can happen is that you'll increase the number of people offering you cheap viagra from legally-dubious sources.

KashMachine

troll 1 (trōl) Pronunciation Key
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls

v. tr.

<LI minmax_bound="true">

<LI minmax_bound="true">To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat. <LI minmax_bound="true">To fish in by trailing a baited line:

troll the lake for bass. <LI minmax_bound="true">To trail (a baited line) in fishing. <LI minmax_bound="true">To sing in succession the parts of (a round, for example).
[*]To sing heartily: troll a carol.<LI minmax_bound="true">Slang To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something: "[Criminals] troll bus stations for young runaways" (Pete Axthelm).</FONT minmax_bound="true"> <LI minmax_bound="true">Music

<LI minmax_bound="true">To sing in succession the parts of (a round, for example).
1. To sing heartily: troll a carol.

[*]To roll or revolve.
v. intr.

<LI minmax_bound="true">To fish by trailing a line, as from a moving boat. <LI minmax_bound="true">

<LI minmax_bound="true">To wander about; ramble.
1. Slang To patrol an area in search for someone or something.

<LI minmax_bound="true">Music To sing heartily or gaily.
[*]To roll or spin around.
n.

<LI minmax_bound="true">

<LI minmax_bound="true">The act of trolling for fish.
1. A lure, such as a spoon or spinner, that is used for trolling.

[*]Music A vocal composition in successive parts; a round.

[Middle English trollen, to wander about, from Old French troller, of Germanic origin.]

troll'er n.
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This trolling
nounangling by drawing a baited line through the water [syn: troll]

Nerin

be that as it may, troll,trolling etc are still internet terms that have different meaning.
i believe wikipedia has a page on internet language.

Hanley

So now you know what trolling is better than anyone else on the whole forum too?

Some tips...

-Being new, don't expect that anyone owes you anything here

-Saying a ban is stupid or wrong isn't a good way to get it lifted

-Openly attacking a mod in a feedback thread will results in Lolcats

-Having 6 posts, and thinking you know how everything works is incredibly close minded and not a good way to endear yourself to others

-IMO you shoulda taken the week long ban on the chin. You're only here 6 posts so you've obviously managed to live without boards thus far. Or at least haven't contributed that much so what's another week? That being said I'd be surprised if that offer is still on the table

Nerin

ps: Hanleys tips are good.

pps :

In the exciting world of the Internet computers do not have to be paid and do not go home at 5 in the evening, programs and scripts don't exist solely on paper and now can even involve a large degree of decision making and go on practically permanently. Bugs do not have wings, buttons do not need thread. Programmers tell machines rather than people what they should be doing and when, and hacking neither involves using an axe nor produces furniture.

Do not try to eat the cookies.

i LOLd
Talliesin is on a roll methinks

Talliesin

KashMachine wrote: »

troll 1 (trōl) Pronunciation Key
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls
...

You make a good case if you believe that you were banned for fishing.

In such a case I suggest that you start a new thread saying "I was banned for fishing, and I wasn't fishing at all".

However, I suspect that you were not banned for fishing, but rather because you were suspected of trolling.

Trolling as a style of fishing involves, as your dictionary reference suggests, dragging bait through a likely spot.

Saying something that you can guarantee will result in anger and flamage and upset and not in any sort of reasonable conversation (a heated debate or a pleasant chat both have their place, but even a heated debate differs from a flame-war) is called trolling by analogy to that style of fishing.

Such metaphors are common on the Internet and in computing generally. The following words for instance are often found on the internet:

• Computer
• Program
• Script
• Bug
• Button
• Programmer
• Hack
• Cookie

In the exciting world of the Internet computers do not have to be paid and do not go home at 5 in the evening, programs and scripts don't exist solely on paper and now can even involve a large degree of decision making and go on practically permanently. Bugs do not have wings, buttons do not need thread. Programmers tell machines rather than people what they should be doing and when, and hacking neither involves using an axe nor produces furniture.

Do not try to eat the cookies.

For all that though, I suspect you're just giving dictionary definitions because you're trolling.

KashMachine

Mostly as humans we talk about opinions and come to a common consensus because we cannot talk in facts all the time (we are not computers). 'Ridiculous' comes under opinion. It was never meant to be understood as fact. When people say the OJ Simpson verdict was ridiculous, you and others generally understand what they mean. They mean they think it was the wrong outcome and not something which they can or want to establish as fact there and then. Of course i don't know whether in my case it is fact because of the game theoretic position you just put but you are diverting from the point with such analysis.

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

Thanks. KM

pirelli

Hanley wrote: »

So now you know what trolling is better than anyone else on the whole forum too?

Some tips...

-Being new, don't expect that anyone owes you anything here

-Saying a ban is stupid or wrong isn't a good way to get it lifted

-Openly attacking a mod in a feedback thread will results in Lolcats

-Having 6 posts, and thinking you know how everything works is incredibly close minded and not a good way to endear yourself to others

-IMO you shoulda taken the week long ban on the chin. You're only here 6 posts so you've obviously managed to live without boards thus far. Or at least haven't contributed that much so what's another week? That being said I'd be surprised if that offer is still on the table

Were you not banned last week Hanly anyways glad your ban was lifted. You shouldnt be banned for anything off forum unless it's objectively offensive.


Mods' shouldnt take their fustration out on people. Sounds like their was tiny amount of fustration on the part of the Mod. We all agree that mods volunteer their time to make boards.ie a brilliant Irish forum and dang i'm proud of them. Their contribution isnt overlooked. However delibertlytaking out their fustration on someone isnt being a mod and they should not be immune when this happens.

Talliesin

KashMachine wrote: »

When people say the OJ Simpson verdict was ridiculous, you and others generally understand what they mean. They mean they think it was the wrong outcome and not something which they can or want to establish as fact there and then.

Yes. If they've followed the OJ Simpson trial to any degree then their opinion as to whether it was ridiculous or not will be based on that.

If someone knows only that the OJ Simpson trial was a trial in which a man was accused of murder and he was acquitted and they suddenly declare that ridiculous - well, let's just say that I hope such a person never serves on a jury.

KashMachine wrote: »

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

I'm patronising your insisting that you were right and everyone else was wrong after you were told about the other definition of troll.

To make a mistake the first time is perfectly understandable - as I said, it comes from a style of fishing and it's not hard to see how someone could imagine it being metaphorically in the same way as trawling is.

It's the mumpsimus factor that moves it from the mistaken into the being highly amusing.

Nerin

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

dont bite the hand that feeds is another tip you should remember.
what everyone is saying is that there are going to be terms and in-jokes etc you wont get for awhile.

im sure people are going to be looking at you suspiciously as you have got a small post count and you have said things that could be seen as trolling (its written language,sometimes its hard to tell how people are saying something/intend it to be seen)

also links to threads is helpful and you will be inevitably be asked to provide them for us (as evidence,if you will), also because its a pain to go trawling through posts.

it may come as a shock to you because you are only in the door as it were,and you suffered the fiery wrath of The Banstick, but you need to realise that there are all sorts of muppets that register to start trolling and causing mischief, and the mods see alot of it, and might be quick to shoot first and let God (or DeV) sort em out.

also, further advice, don't get carried away and personally insut, that won't help your case at all.
PMing the mod in question,cooly and calmly is usually helpful also.

Hanley

pirelli wrote: »

Were you not banned last week Hanly anyways glad your ban was lifted. You shouldnt be banned for anything off forum unless it's objectively offensive.

It was two weeks ago, but whatever. The points I alluded to and how I put forth my case played a large part in having my ban lifted. I posted to advise Kashmachine that how you approach a situation like this probably plays a large part in whether or not the ban is lifted. Coming on and saying "everyone's out to get me, you all suck" isn't a good idea and will result in lolcats. Putting forth your case, backing it up with contributions and history and asking for peoples opinions is. Of course this is moot when we're talking about someone with 6 posts who obviously feels that they have a some innate right to post wherever they want.

KashMachine

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

Talliesin

KashMachine wrote: »

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality).

Eh, you were claiming above to have mixed up the words trawl and troll in terms of how they are metaphorically applied.

Are you suggesting that you weren't?

Actually, the conclusion I came to as to what is most likely is that you know perfectly well what trolling means and you found the origin of the word in the dictionary and you just posted the original post in this thread as a form of trolling.

That you honestly don't know what trolling means is another possibility and I didn't dismiss it.

Since you are claiming to have not understood what trolling means in this sense, I don't really see what you gain in now claiming to that I am doing you and injustice in pointing out the other meaning.

Are you now claiming that you did know what trolling means?

KashMachine wrote: »

you know that game theory indicates about jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

My point exactly.

nerin wrote: »

PMing the mod in question,cooly and calmly is usually helpful also.

But not if you say it's ridiculous.

On the other hand, re-reading the reason given for the ban and saying to oneself "hmm, maybe my behaviour matches previous behaviour of people who have previously been found to be trouble makers in one way or another and so I am being identified as such. Perhaps I should try to understand what led this person to this opinion of me and how it fits into the established consensus that I am new to" can be a much more productive approach.

The really radical thing about this, in the context of the Feedback forum, is that in this situation neither the OP nor the mod would be in the wrong, and both could be happy at the outcome. How freaky is that?

Hanley

KashMachine wrote: »

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

No no, dig up. Doing yourself no favours.

Nerin

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates about jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

im starting to see why you were seen as a possible annoyance.

its feedback, people will try and help.

if you didnt want people commenting on this you wouldnt have posted here and would have kept this between yourself and the mod.

And regarding people that dont like hearing the right/logical advice (read Freud on Superiority complex)

i was in your position (kind of) when i first came here i annoyed a mod, and started a fight teh powah (TM) feedback thread also.
and more importantly learned from it.

The really radical thing about this, in the context of the Feedback forum, is that in this situation neither the OP nor the mod would be in the wrong, and both could be happy at the outcome. How freaky is that?

stop,youre sending shivers up my spine.

tallaght01

eh, how old is everyone in here?

who gives a **** about an internet definition of trolling.

Feedback has become a total joke.

OP, I'd suggest that you post concerns regarding banings in the helpdesk. That way every man and his dog can't reply. Only certain people can reply on helpdesk. I don't kn ow who they are, but there's only a few of them, which can only be a good thing.

Can people stop getting their knickers in a twist and look at the issue in question ie the ban.

So, poker mods, are internet orgasms against the rules?


IMO, internet orgasms FTW :cool:

Terry

Now I'm all for having a laugh at re-regs coming on here and fighting the power despite having been banned from every forum 30 times.

I don't think this is the case here though.

The post seems to have been deleted, so unless Ste05 restores it, or posts it here, we really don't know what happened.
Nothing in the reported posts forum either.

Also, laughing at newbies because they don't understand internet terminology is really lame.

Nerin

Also, laughing at newbies because they don't understand internet terminology is really lame.

i thought we were being helpful

i took it in the traditional sense (i.e. fishing).
anyway i'll edit and repost as it doesn't affect my argument in essense.
thanks alot guys

plus first lolcat!!!

Can people stop getting their knickers in a twist and look at the issue in question ie the ban.

the issue(one of the issues anyway) at the beginning was confusion over the term troll,and whether op was trolling or just made a fair mistake:rolleyes:

AckwelFoley

Poker is bad for you

KashMachine

As above.........

It's kinda self defeating.

AckwelFoley

Faith

KashMachine, being banned only affects you if you post in the forum. You said yourself you mostly read it, so you can just log out and read it merrily away.

I realise that solution doesn't address the ban itself, but if the ban isn't lifted, there's still that option for you.

snyper - it's very important to learn when lolcats are appropriate.

The original post has been fixed, he now understands the term "trolling", there is no need for ridicule or cat pics. Although he has come across poorly in serveral posts, he is being antagonised. He has a good reason to be pissed about the ban. It is not time for lolcats.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

you could lift the ban. does seem like a harmless enough post.

DeVore

Snyper finally wore my considerable patience out and has been banned from Feedback for a while.

DeV.

randomcountdown

Jesus, Boards.ie outdid itself on this thread.

Mr. Incognito

OP has a legit problem,

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum.

Kashmachine- have you tried to pm the mod? that is usually the first step. If you log out you can still view the thread so that should be that sorted for you at least.

Haven't heard the other side so can't comment but sounds like a harsh ban on a newbie that's being melted out for other people's general muppetry.

Gandalf23

SetantaL wrote: »

OP has a legit problem

+1

Would be good to see something done about this.

SetantaL wrote: »

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum

I totally agree ... Feedback is suffering because of this.

I think this forum should be more tightly controlled ... there should be no place for ill-informed, patrionising, idiotic, and irrelevent comments and replies to OP ... especially where the OP has a legit concern and/or genuine feedback to give. If someone takes the time to post here they should be respected. Having said that, I know there are some fools and "fite da powa" idiots ... dont give them time or effort ... lock threads quickly after they have been given a reason they have been banned.

IMHO there are a few (a significant minority perhaps???) people here who have no interest in hearing constructive feedback, or making helpful comments (really, really good to see some of these finally getting banned at last ... see above). There are also mods who ban unfairly and seem to be on some warped power trip. We all know this happens and who they are. Its equally as bad to be a "boards.ie fanboy" fool as a "fite da powa" fool. Both can be equally ignorant, blinkered, unhelpful, and laughable.

That said there are people here who I believe are interested in hearing genuine and constructive feedback. We all know who these are too. Sometimes a pity they seem to be drowning in lolcats.

Dont see this as a critisism of boards.ie ... I'm just giving feedback in an effort to make the site better and the community stronger.

TelePaul

Uhmm has feedback ever been about anything other than posting stupid cat pics? I could probably count on one hand the number of issues that I've seen fully resolved here. PMing the mod is your best bet, other than that there's not alot that can be done. (Speaking as someone who's had their very own feeback thread degenerate into a sea of useless cat pictures!)

TelePaul

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I think this forum should be more tightly controlled ... there should be no place for ill-informed, patrionising, idiotic, and irrelevent comments and replies to OP ... especially where the OP has a legit concern and/or genuine feedback to give. If someone takes the time to post here they should be respected. Having said that, I know there are some fools and "fite da powa" idiots ... dont give them time or effort ... lock threads quickly after they have been given a reason they have been banned.

IMHO there are a few (a significant minority perhaps???) people here who have no interest in hearing constructive feedback, or making helpful comments (really, really good to see some of these finally getting banned at last ... see above). There are also mods who ban unfairly and seem to be on some warped power trip. We all know this happens and who they are.

very well said!

Gandalf23

TelePaul wrote: »

Uhmm has feedback ever been about anything other than posting stupid cat pics? I could probably count on one hand the number of issues that I've seen fully resolved here.

Sort of a pity that. Kinda negates the point of a "feedback" thread.

TelePaul wrote: »

PMing the mod is your best bet, other than that there's not alot that can be done.

I might be wrong but dont mods tell people with suggestions and problems to "take it to feedback"? I know I've been told that a few times.


Again I want to stress I'm not trying to "fite da powa" here. But imho Feedback needs a bit of a rethink from the "powas" at this stage ...

Fysh

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Sort of a pity that. Kinda negates the point of a "feedback" thread.
(snip)
Again I want to stress I'm not trying to "fite da powa" here. But imho Feedback needs a bit of a rethink from the "powas" at this stage ...

You have to bear in mind that you're addressing only one of the two reasons Feedback rarely works. Feedback should, theoretically, be about user's experiences of the site - whether that's new feature requests, highlighting existing faults, or complaining/querying about certain policies. Some stuff that come to feedback shouldn't be in this forum in the first place.

There are plenty of people out there playing the God Given Right card and basically complaining that they're being penalised for breaking the rules, under the apparent conviction that the rules don't apply to them. These people deserve to be laughed at, or at least to be removed from the forums whose function they impede.

Within the subset of Feedback posts dealing with mod behaviour and bans, there's a lot of noise compared to relatively little actual signal. If this were to improve, it might be worth tightening up the rules of the forum. But while the majority of the ban-related threads are still variations on "What do you mean, I'm banned for breaking the charter and ignoring a mod?!? ZOMG NAZIS!" I don't really see why anyone, whether it's the mods or the admins, should bother spending more time on regulating them.

5starpool

i just had an orgasm

---

the math turns me on. no seriously.

The above is the content of the deleted post by Ste05. It was posted in a theory thread that involved some maths calculations etc. The replies to this point were all serious, helpful and on topic.

There has been a lot of crap in the various poker forums as regards unhelpful one liners, and I believe Ste just got sick of it, and from a poster who rarely posts, to post something as pointless as this is not really the best idea. There are a lot of rambling, directionless, light hearted threads in poker in general and posts such as the above might be tolerated there, but in a serious thread it is beyond pointless. If he was a poster with a history of contributing then I certainly don't think it would have been ban warranting, but the fact that he is a rare contributor that felt the need to post this didn't bode well, and a message had to be sent, and all the other lurkers that read Ste's reply would have got the message too.

Yes, it is hardly the worst offence that has ever taken place, but if the serious threads can't be kept serious then the whole forum might as well stop being moderated. I have alerted Ste of the existence of this thread as he probably isn't aware of it, as he rarely pokes his head outside of poker.

Gandalf23

Fysh wrote: »

You have to bear in mind that you're addressing only one of the two reasons Feedback rarely works. Feedback should, theoretically, be about user's experiences of the site - whether that's new feature requests, highlighting existing faults, or complaining/querying about certain policies. Some stuff that come to feedback shouldn't be in this forum in the first place.

Agreed ... thats exactly what feedback should be about. Time for a heavily moderated "why was I banned form the 'xxx' forum" forum then?

Fysh wrote: »

There are plenty of people out there playing the God Given Right card and basically complaining that they're being penalised for breaking the rules, under the apparent conviction that the rules don't apply to them. These people deserve to be laughed at, or at least to be removed from the forums whose function they impede.

I dont agree. Its better ignoring fools than laughing at them. I would bet that many of the idiots posting here love nothing more that 5 pages of posts where they have a stage to perform on and a chance to publically "fight da power" ... gives them an audience. A fool loves an audience.

If "feedback" is to be the place to take banning issues, I suggest again that an smod / admin tell someone why they were banned and then lock the thread. There is no need to drag things out for 5 pages of stupidity and lolcats.

Fysh wrote: »

Within the subset of Feedback posts dealing with mod behaviour and bans, there's a lot of noise compared to relatively little actual signal. If this were to improve, it might be worth tightening up the rules of the forum. But while the majority of the ban-related threads are still variations on "What do you mean, I'm banned for breaking the charter and ignoring a mod?!? ZOMG NAZIS!" I don't really see why anyone, whether it's the mods or the admins, should bother spending more time on regulating them.

Agreed ... tightening up the rules in feedback is an excellent idea.

Also agreed on the mods / admins spending little time on debating bans. Did anyone suggest a "why was I banned form the 'xxx' forum" forum?
















Oh wait ... I just did ...

Ponster

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Agreed ... tightening up the rules in feedback is an excellent idea.

Also agreed on the mods / admins spending little time on debating bans. Did anyone suggest a "why was I banned form the 'xxx' forum" forum?



Oh wait ... I just did ...

+1 for keeping an extra eye on the forum but a mod *should* always ban someone with a PM that explains exactly why. In the case that the member is still confused after several PM's then a post in feedback would be fine but it shouldn't be the default action to get a reply from staff.

Mods who ban without explaining exactly why (though I'm sure it's 100% clear to the mod) and worse, who don't reply to members PM's asking for information on bannings should be 'retrained'.

TelePaul

Fysh wrote: »

There are plenty of people out there playing the God Given Right card and basically complaining that they're being penalised for breaking the rules, under the apparent conviction that the rules don't apply to them. These people deserve to be laughed at, or at least to be removed from the forums whose function they impede.

Well plenty of people are banned unfairly but seem to be ignored in the interest of keeping the peace. And it's easy to see why this is so desirable; if a Mod bans one person in a hundred, albeit unfairly, is it worth taking them to task over it? Is it even possible to take them to task over it? Probably not. Cat pics seem to be the preferred method of telling someone that, while they may have a valid argument, it wont be entertained.

AlmightyCushion

SetantaL wrote: »

OP has a legit problem,

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum.

I agree with you here about the lolcats but the reason people were giving him a definition of trolling was because he thought that he was banned for reading the forum (which is what he thought trolling meant). We were just pointing out that, that wasn't the case.

Hobart

Yes he mistook trolling for another meaning, I think he accepts that and has moved on from it (although his fishing comment is ambiguous to say the least).

I also think 5starpool has given a fairly comprehensive reason as to why this occurred, he also says the Ste has been made aware of this thread. I find the poker mods to be one of the most level-headed types around here. If it's a mistake, I'm sure it will be undone. Just give it some time.

As for the cat pictures etc, they are as funny as a kick in the balls at this stage, and should warrant an instant ban if used again.

Ste05

Terry wrote: »

The post seems to have been deleted, so unless Ste05 restores it, or posts it here, we really don't know what happened.
Nothing in the reported posts forum either.

5starpool has reprinted the post, and has explained pretty much perfectly what happened. For non-Poker forum readers it's difficult to explain what's been going on lately in Poker, but it has become very heated over the last few months, in the Holdem HHs & Theory Forum and all the Poker forums, there has been a huge rolling fight between 2 camps, these 2 camps are the "Maths Players" on one hand and on the other, there's the "Feel Players". This thread was at a time just after/during one of these heated battles in a thread.

Whether it was tongue on cheek or not is debateable but TBH I don't really care, I wasn't willing to wait around and see whether or not this guy was a troll or was going to become a prolific constructive poster, the last thing the Poker forum needed was more posters who post worthless 1 or 2 line responses, and I didn't want another pitch battle taking place in that thread, so I deleted the post and banned the user so everyone can see that all the rubbish lately was being cracked down on (multiple warnings in multiple threads). For this I make no apologies, controlling people in the Poker forum can be very difficult, because of the topic. Ego's can become amazingly overly inflated based on their perceived abilities, and as everyone here knows they are the best Poker player and everyone should listen to them and it can be very bruising to have a post ripped apart and things get heated very quickly, hence why I wanted to nip a potential problem in the bud.

I then PM'd the user saying he was banned and the text of that PM was in the OP here. The last thing I needed was another Troll coming in stirring up the emotions of these 2 camps, if he wasn't a Troll he would take his punishment and come back in a week having learned a valuable lesson about Poker forum etiquette. I'm still undecided after a PM exchange and this thread, whether he is a troll or not, but my feeling at the minute is he is probably not a troll, just a newbie who posted the wrong thing at the wrong time. Although....Kashmachine, then sent me this PM, asking for me to phone him and explain why he was banned. Emmm, no!

is this some kind of joke? oddly enough i think you are serious. what kind of sh1te exactly are you talking about? and wtf are u in real life or are you just off a bad run and can't get tilt monkey off your back and decide to have a pop at me. i can't see why you would have banned me? my number is xxxxxxxxx and i would appreciate a call for an explanation. is this how you treat newcomers? if you want 'sh1te' and 'sh1te stirring' eliminated then you should consider banning half of the poker forum from what i can see. i'm gobsmacked.

I then sent him this reply:

It's no joke. Your post about loving maths and all that was worthless and added nothing to the thread. We have enough posters like that, and I'm cutting down on them from now on. So you're banned, post constructively or don't post. I don't owe you any explanation and if you think I'm going to go ringing you you, well I have better things to do with my time. Make a thread here if you want to give out about my modding. I'm cleaning up the Theory forum and your start wasn't good, so I nipped it in the bud. If you want to be a constructive poster, let me know in a week.

Ste05

I will still lift the ban in a week if he wants to post constructively and isn't going to hold some sort of childish grudge. I think this is more then fair.

Ponster wrote: »

+1 for keeping an extra eye on the forum but a mod *should* always ban someone with a PM that explains exactly why. In the case that the member is still confused after several PM's then a post in feedback would be fine but it shouldn't be the default action to get a reply from staff.

Mods who ban without explaining exactly why (though I'm sure it's 100% clear to the mod) and worse, who don't reply to members PM's asking for information on bannings should be 'retrained'.

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me or not, but as you can see, I did PM the user and have replied to every PM I received and have now posted in this thread explaining my actions. This will probably be my last post on the topic. But I'll keep an eye on the thread should any other questions arise that need answering.

Kashmachine, as I said PM me in a week if you want to return and post constructively in the Poker forum.

faceman

Ste05, his phone number is in your post, you might want to remove that.

Ste05

Forgot about that. Apologies.

Terry

Ste05 wrote: »

5starpool has reprinted the post, and has explained pretty much perfectly what happened. For non-Poker forum readers it's difficult to explain what's been going on lately in Poker, but it has become very heated over the last few months, in the Holdem HHs & Theory Forum and all the Poker forums, there has been a huge rolling fight between 2 camps, these 2 camps are the "Maths Players" on one hand and on the other, there's the "Feel Players". This thread was at a time just after/during one of these heated battles in a thread.

Whether it was tongue on cheek or not is debateable but TBH I don't really care, I wasn't willing to wait around and see whether or not this guy was a troll or was going to become a prolific constructive poster, the last thing the Poker forum needed was more posters who post worthless 1 or 2 line responses, and I didn't want another pitch battle taking place in that thread, so I deleted the post and banned the user so everyone can see that all the rubbish lately was being cracked down on (multiple warnings in multiple threads). For this I make no apologies, controlling people in the Poker forum can be very difficult, because of the topic. Ego's can become amazingly overly inflated based on their perceived abilities, and as everyone here knows they are the best Poker player and everyone should listen to them and it can be very bruising to have a post ripped apart and things get heated very quickly, hence why I wanted to nip a potential problem in the bud.

I then PM'd the user saying he was banned and the text of that PM was in the OP here. The last thing I needed was another Troll coming in stirring up the emotions of these 2 camps, if he wasn't a Troll he would take his punishment and come back in a week having learned a valuable lesson about Poker forum etiquette. I'm still undecided after a PM exchange and this thread, whether he is a troll or not, but my feeling at the minute is he is probably not a troll, just a newbie who posted the wrong thing at the wrong time. Although....Kashmachine, then sent me this PM, asking for me to phone him and explain why he was banned. Emmm, no!


I then sent him this reply:


I will still lift the ban in a week if he wants to post constructively and isn't going to hold some sort of childish grudge. I think this is more then fair.

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me or not, but as you can see, I did PM the user and have replied to every PM I received and have now posted in this thread explaining my actions. This will probably be my last post on the topic. But I'll keep an eye on the thread should any other questions arise that need answering.

Kashmachine, as I said PM me in a week if you want to return and post constructively in the Poker forum.

I'll just preface this by saying that I don't visit the poker forum, nor do I play (I tend to lose when I do play).

My opinion, even given your detailed explanation of the current situation, is that the ban was over the top.

Deleting the post and sending a friendly PM would have been enough.

What you are essentially doing is pre approving users in the way the soccer forum does it.

If you want to do that, then I suggest having an access request thread akin to that of the soccer forum.

Lurking doesn't really give you a feel for how a forum runs, so I think that newbies should be given a bit of leeway in all forums.

To summarise, I don't think the ban was warranted, but I also don't know the ins and outs of the poker forum and am just giving my opinion.

At the end of the day, it's your call (no pun intended). I just don't think he should have been banned.

---

Kashmachine, sending abusive PM's to the mod who banned you is never a good idea.
I recommend you apologise to Ste05 for that. It may just help clear things up.

tbh

I'd agree with terry, with the same qualifications. I think the OP was just unlucky, but the way he dealt with it, according to Ste05, shows a lack of class IMO. The ideal solution would have been an on-thread warning, but I think really that the onus is on the newcomer to spend a few days getting the feel of things before posting, and so the OP should have been aware of what was happening. It's not exactly a crime not to do that, but it would have prevented this whole thing. Again, ideally, I think once Ste05 had had a chance to cool down, a polite pm may well have unlocked the whole thing, but to be honest OP, if you had sent me the PM ste05 quoted, I would have banned you for longer. From the point of view of (new) users, it's hard to understand why a little quip can lead to a banning, but really when you expand it over hundreds of posts and posters, it grates. That's why I think the onus is on you to get the feel of the forum first, and why ignorance isn't an excuse. Out of context, you have a valid case. In context, You got it wrong, you won't again.

Overheal

I think I speak for most people when I say I'd have been banned a lot more often if this were the case but I've received enough in-thread and PM warnings to have a bit of cop on. In fairness most cases are best approached that way in my opinion.

edit: ah wow when did I outpost Terry?

Nerin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I agree with you here about the lolcats but the reason people were giving him a definition of trolling was because he thought that he was banned for reading the forum (which is what he thought trolling meant). We were just pointing out that, that wasn't the case.

as AlmightyCushion said he seemed confused about the terms,i wouldnt even have bothered posting if i had seen Almighty had posted the definition, except we both posted at the same time.

as for my LoLcat,it wasnt aimed at making fun of the OP,someone mentioned cats and iput it up (as an example) <plus OPs first cat pic>

Gandalf23 wrote: »

+1
IMHO there are a few (a significant minority perhaps???) people here who have no interest in hearing constructive feedback, or making helpful comments (really, really good to see some of these finally getting banned at last ... see above). There are also mods who ban unfairly and seem to be on some warped power trip. We all know this happens and who they are. Its equally as bad to be a "boards.ie fanboy" fool as a "fite da powa" fool. Both can be equally ignorant, blinkered, unhelpful, and laughable.

SetantaL wrote: »

OP has a legit problem,

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum.

Kashmachine- have you tried to pm the mod? that is usually the first step. If you log out you can still view the thread so that should be that sorted for you at least.

Haven't heard the other side so can't comment but sounds like a harsh ban on a newbie that's being melted out for other people's general muppetry.

Emm right, OP was advised the calmly pm the mod,the usual steps etc ie dont get angry and personally insult mods or users,wait etc etc
i would think that since only 3 or four users were replying to OP at 2-3am that was freakin helpful.
its feeback and when people have this kind of query how many times do you see PM the mod etc written,its like unwritten rules of what to helpfully tell the OP.
Did ye read all the original nights posts?

as for muppetry/laughing at OP, the OP got Pi$$y when he though Talliesin was being patronising, and even was making fun of the fact he was helping!

KashMachine wrote: »

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

meh, its easy to understand how a mod might think OP was a troll, low post count and unlucky choice of wording in thread seem to be to blame, even though he made trolly remarks/agro attitude in the feedback after people made the freakin effort to help.

Overheal wrote: »

I think I speak for most people when I say I'd have been banned a lot more often if this were the case but I've received enough in-thread and PM warnings to have a bit of cop on. In fairness most cases are best approached that way in my opinion.

true

OrlaBarry

The poker Mods do a superb job. Unlike some of boards the average poker forum user is not arsed with the internet par se bar how it can benifit them in poker terms. As such there are many dual+some accounts running around. That could have been Sol or a number of others. It was a call made by a mod at the time, just trying to keep a thread on track. No bigge tbh. The mods on the poker forum probably have to think harder than most mods given the tournies, free ads, rake back etc.

Just my opinion.

Ponster

Ste05 wrote: »

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me or not, but as you can see, I did PM the user and have replied to every PM I received and have now posted in this thread explaining my actions. This will probably be my last post on the topic. But I'll keep an eye on the thread should any other questions arise that need answering.

God no. It was a lame rant in an ill chosen thread. Sorry for the confusion

tallaght01

Ste05 wrote: »

there has been a huge rolling fight between 2 camps, these 2 camps are the "Maths Players" on one hand and on the other, there's the "Feel Players". This thread was at a time just after/during one of these heated battles in a thread.

Whether it was tongue on cheek or not is debateable but TBH I don't really care, I wasn't willing to wait around and see whether or not this guy was a troll or was going to become a prolific constructive poster, the last thing the Poker forum needed was more posters who post worthless 1 or 2 line responses, and I didn't want another pitch battle taking place in that thread, so I deleted the post and banned the user so everyone can see that all the rubbish lately was being cracked down on (multiple warnings in multiple threads).

It's pretty shocking to go making an example of a new poster, just to try and keep your regulars in check. If "2 camps" are fighting, why don't you deal with them directly? Ask for more mods if you think you need them.

Ste05 wrote: »

The last thing I needed was another Troll coming in stirring up the emotions of these 2 camps, if he wasn't a Troll he would take his punishment and come back in a week having learned a valuable lesson about Poker forum etiquette.

That's a dreadful attitude.

If I was banned from a forum for trolling when I wasn't, I wouldn't ever go back to it.