Rathdown Motors Confusing Consumers

OutlawPete

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this misleading?

Nico



Their Website Page

Seth Brundle

What part do you find confusing?
I think the idea of using the ABC is a bit stupid though!

Atomic Pineapple

what part do you find misleading? it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

I'm no expert on the matter though I could have missed something?

Seth Brundle

draffodx wrote: »

what part do you find misleading? it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

I'm no expert on the matter though I could have missed something?

And you expect a car dealer to provide information about importing your car???

Guy:Incognito

draffodx wrote: »

it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

Cant se why it would. AFAIK they dont import used cars so they wouldnt bother putting the info on their site.

Atomic Pineapple

Stekelly wrote: »

Cant se why it would. AFAIK they dont import used cars so they wouldnt bother putting the info on their site.

yeh thats what i meant, i dont find it confusing and the only thing i can think of is it doesn't mention imports and i was thinking they didnt deal with imports anyway

--amadeus--

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

niceirishfella

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

Excuse me, there was NOTHING and I mean NOTHING in my humerous post about this family business that was untrue.

Yes, they do sell ex rentals from their sister co's fleet - FACT.

and yes, their founding boss Joe Turley Snr settled with the revenue in relation to tax evasion through an offshore account. - YEs, Fact and a well published one.

so, i'm left wondering, WHY Da Fook was my post removed???

Churchy

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

I agree with that ^^^.

The ABC points are easy to understand (from a member of the publics point of view) and factually correct.
IMO the thread poster should get wrist slapping from admin to suggest a company is misleading the public when its most certainly not.

Have said this before , if I worked for that company a solicitors letter would be enroute on Monday morning to boards.ie.

JHMEG

Jeez, are the high horses are out again?

Anyway:
A "Only new cars are affected by VRT changes..." is wrong.
C "Road tax changes related to CO2.. will only affect.. new cars".. is wrong.

Nico, sounds deliberately misleading to me.

Is what niceirishfella says correct? If so he (at least) deserves an explanation? (If not, please ignore)

--amadeus--

To clarify, my comment on being sued was about a post (now removed) that had a whole heap of other comments on it.

The initial ABC post is fine within it's own terms of reference (cars that are newly registered are afected and they don't import cars, it's very much a minority thing so it's broadly true to say that second hand cars aren't affected, etc).

All that said naming a particular company (especially in light of the MCD warnings) and giving out about them without an "in my opinion" qualifier is asking for trouble.

niceirishfella

--amadeus-- wrote: »

To clarify, my comment on being sued was about a post (now removed) that had a whole heap of other comments on it.

The initial ABC post is fine within it's own terms of reference (cars that are newly registered are afected and they don't import cars, it's very much a minority thing so it's broadly true to say that second hand cars aren't affected, etc).

All that said naming a particular company (especially in light of the MCD warnings) and giving out about them without an "in my opinion" qualifier is asking for trouble.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, so if i had to put in "in my opinion" in my post, you would'nt have removed it eventhough all the FACTs in it are FACTUAL??

--amadeus--

How could I remove it, I'm not a Moderator!

And yes in law you are allowed to hold any resonible opinion but you cannot make assertions of fact unless you can prove that they are true, even "anonymously" on the internet.

So saying X Resteraunt uses dead cats instead of lamb could get you sued but saying "In my opinion the lamb tastes like dead cat" won't. ANd teh fact there is a perm warning on discussing MCD events proves that this is an issue that has popped up before. There is a feedback forum if you have a problem with the moderation.

Wishbone Ash

.....and as there are no Motors mods online, it was removed by someone at a much higher level.

niceirishfella

--amadeus-- wrote: »

How could I remove it, I'm not a Moderator!

And yes in law you are allowed to hold any resonible opinion but you cannot make assertions of fact unless you can prove that they are true, even "anonymously" on the internet.

So saying X Resteraunt uses dead cats instead of lamb could get you sued but saying "In my opinion the lamb tastes like dead cat" won't. ANd teh fact there is a perm warning on discussing MCD events proves that this is an issue that has popped up before. There is a feedback forum if you have a problem with the moderation.

ama, ok, breathe........breath some more, count to 10.......................ok............now, EXHALE........Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nothing was or is pointed at you. And your right. IMHO's are a good way of sidestepping getting ass's sued, but i have no worries there. I know all the facts in question are indeed the TRUTH.
Anyways, I couldnt be arsed anymore about it........may aswell lock up the thread before the internet police come to my door and throw me in a cell with a big 22stone guy called BUBBA.

--amadeus--

Jesus reads the Motors forum?

Can I have a Bugatti please

agent_smith

Not sure if i agree with the bit at the end 'that your vehicle will depreciate more than the vrt savings'.
This is not necessarily the case for a LOT of cars. If your existing car is diesel and has a low CO2 emission then maybe.. if you are petrol... then happy days it should make bugger all difference to your trade in value.

Seth Brundle

@niceirishfella - if you wish to argue with the moderation on the forum then take it to the feedback thread.

niceirishfella

right so, I've been told.

OutlawPete

JHMEG wrote: »

Jeez, are the high horses are out again?

Anyway:
A "Only new cars are affected by VRT changes..." is wrong.
C "Road tax changes related to CO2.. will only affect.. new cars".. is wrong.

Nico, sounds deliberately misleading to me.
(If not, please ignore)

Exactly - glad someone seen where I was coming from

Guy:Incognito

Nico22 wrote: »

Exactly - glad someone seen where I was coming from

Not wrong from Rathdown motors POV, which I'm sure is theonly one they are concerned with. Would you like them to run an ad about how to save money by not buying their used cars and to go to the UK?

-Chris-

I'm pretty sure te SIMI would have an issue with any of their dealers promoting the importing of used cars...

(And that's not an invitation to highjack the thread and go on a rant about the SIMI and any issues you have about them, I'm merely making the point that their main function is to protect and serve their members and to give their members a code of conduct to give consumers peace-of-mind).

OutlawPete

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm pretty sure te SIMI would have an issue with any of their dealers promoting the importing of used cars...

No one is asking them to 'promote' importing used cars. Who implied that they should?

Pointing out that used cars ARE effected by the new Co2 based car tax rates or that the new VRT rates also effect used cars doesn't even come close to 'promoting' importing used cars.

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

Someone could read this and get a 2.0 petrol which tax is 400 now but will closer to 2000 grand when it's renewal comes up after July.

I didn't want to say it but I think the purpose of this ad is obviously directed at those who wish to buy a car which would fall into the 100 Euro and 150 Car Tax bracket as I know someone who works in a car dealership in Clontarf and they are getting a lot of people asking now what the car tax will be on the cars after July.

If you check out AutoTrader.co.uk you will see a lot of ads stating that their cars fall into the low emissions tax bracket as they car tax system was changed last year or before so there is money to be made.

I could be wrong but I think that ad is to more or less say 'buy a new low emissions car as a used low emissions car won't effect your car tax'. That's just my opinion but I can't see why else they would to make it look like used cars are uneffected by the Co2 based car tax rates.

AudiChris wrote: »

(And that's not an invitation to highjack the thread and go on a rant about the SIMI and any issues you have about them ..

You sound like a primary school teacher - could you try a little harder to not be so condescending.

Nico

OutlawPete

Stekelly wrote: »

Not wrong from Rathdown motors POV, which I'm sure is theonly one they are concerned with. Would you like them to run an ad about how to save money by not buying their used cars and to go to the UK?

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

Guy:Incognito

Nico22 wrote: »

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

It wont affect the used cars they sell as they will have been registered before July. Only used cars imported after july will be effected by the co2 rates changes.

Nico22 wrote: »

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

How will it affect you? Any used car bought in Ireland is already registered here so the co2 based doesnt come into it. Only used cars imported and regitered in Ireand after july will be concerend with the new rates.

Seth Brundle

I believe that used car prices will be affected by the new taxation system as many models will drop in price affecting resultant used values. Also the old system will be removed in time - presumably after the Local Elections

Guy:Incognito

kbannon wrote: »

I believe that used car prices will be affected by the new taxation system as many models will drop in price affecting resultant used values.

Yes but Nico is talking about the tax rates, used value of the car is a different arguement.

JHMEG

Nico22 wrote: »

No one is asking them to 'promote' importing used cars. Who implied that they should?

They're quite clearly telling half truths. Ignore those who are saying otherwise.

-Chris-

Nico22 wrote: »

You sound like a primary school teacher - could you try a little harder to not be so condescending.

Nico

I was agreeing with SteKelly's post, not attacking yours.

Also, I was actually trying to make sure that me bringing up the SIMI wouldn't start a debate about how good/useless they are and divert the point of YOUR thread. That was for the sake of the discussion you started! I won't bother next time.

---

Nico22 wrote: »

Pointing out that used cars ARE effected by the new Co2 based car tax rates or that the new VRT rates also effect used cars doesn't even come close to 'promoting' importing used cars.

Used cars are potentially affected by a change in price dependent on the change in new car price. This is up for debate at the moment, noone knows how the market will react.
It's definitely not something a franchised dealer would try and hammer out on their website.

Nico22 wrote: »

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

How will the new car tax system affect the used car you buy? Again, we're speculating as to how the market will react to the two tax rates...

Nico22 wrote: »

Someone could read this and get a 2.0 petrol which tax is 400 now but will closer to 2000 grand when it's renewal comes up after July.

How so?

Nico22 wrote: »

I didn't want to say it but I think the purpose of this ad is obviously directed at those who wish to buy a car which would fall into the 100 Euro and 150 Car Tax bracket as I know someone who works in a car dealership in Clontarf and they are getting a lot of people asking now what the car tax will be on the cars after July.

Again, how so? It's incredibly easy for the customer to find out what the pre and post-July tax rates will be for any given car. I would be surprised if dealers weren't sharing this information freely!

Nico22 wrote: »

If you check out AutoTrader.co.uk you will see a lot of ads stating that their cars fall into the low emissions tax bracket as they car tax system was changed last year or before so there is money to be made.

I'm sure this will happen here too. I'm not sure how it will affect pricing.

Nico22 wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think that ad is to more or less say 'buy a new low emissions car as a used low emissions car won't effect your car tax'. That's just my opinion but I can't see why else they would to make it look like used cars are uneffected by the Co2 based car tax rates.

I don't see that in the article. I think you're reading too much into it.
I think the main point of the article is to bring the information into the open and to get the customers asking questions. I think it's a better strategy than trying to sweep the information under the carpet.


Personally I don't get your point and I think that you're nit-picking. I don't see this information as misleading. I don't see how you're confused.

-Chris-

Also, you left out the line...

To enquire how the above will affect your vehicle of interest please contact our sales executives on 01 490 0000 or alternatively e-mail us at info@rathdownmotors.ie.

...directly below the bit you copied and pasted. I'd be more interested to hear what their phone explanation of the webpage is rather than our interpretations of it.

Maybe it was a little misleading of you to leave that out of your original post??

Seth Brundle

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes but Nico is talking about the tax rates, used value of the car is a different arguement.

Its all relative. The new tax rates will affect the value of used cars. Anyhow, I was responding/agreeing to Nico's post!

Nico22 wrote: »

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

OutlawPete

AudiChris wrote: »

That was for the sake of the discussion you started! I won't bother next time.

Good, as I don't think there is a need for you to point out which tangent posters should't vere off in. How arogant.

AudiChris wrote: »

Used cars are potentially affected by a change in price dependent on the change in new car price. This is up for debate at the moment, noone knows how the market will react.

You missing the point again. What's wrong with you. Three posters, including myself, have maded it clear that the new Co2 emissions based tax system it is NOT just about VRT! (allthough even if it was they still fail to point out that importing used cars WILL be effected by the new tax rates without promoting the process).

AudiChris wrote: »

It's definitely not something a franchised dealer would try and hammer out on their website.

Oh they will when it suits them -- ie, a car they are selling has the tax up at the end of July -- then they will point out if the Co2 is 119 and the car tax is only 100 Euro. Of course they will. Did you miss where I pointed out that in the UK for the past year or more car tax rates are advertised now along with the car price as it's now such a big issue.

AudiChris wrote: »

How will the new car tax system affect the used car you buy? Again, we're speculating as to how the market will react to the two tax rates...

Speculating? Tell that to my best mate who has an Alfa 166 2.0 -- yes, just a 2.0 and his car tax is going for 540 euros to 2000 euros in September when his tax is up.

Now you see my point? Making it look as though the new emissions based car tax rates DON'T effect used cars when they clearing DO is really going furstrate buyers when their car tax comes up for renewal after July.

AudiChris wrote: »

Again, how so? It's incredibly easy for the customer to find out what the pre and post-July tax rates will be for any given car. I would be surprised if dealers weren't sharing this information freely!

Freely? Are you looking at the same ad that the rest of us are? It clearly implies that used cars are NOT effected by the new emissions based car tax rates!

You say it's 'incredibly easy' for people to check what their car tax will be when it's up for renewel and my point is that it may well be 'incredibly easy' but ads like one we are talking about make it look as if used car owners don't need to worry about it as 'used cars' are, apparently, not effected.

AudiChris wrote: »

I think it's a better strategy than trying to sweep the information under the carpet.

That may well be and it's not the point that I was making to begin with about confusing used car owners about their cars not being effected but I do believe that someone being sold an used 2.0 Alfa 166 today where the dealer knows the tax is up at the end of July and will cost 2000, will most likely not be told so.

I'm not talking about Rathdown here as that is a seperate issue but in General dealers, which I understand by the way, will only bring up tax rates if they are a plus for buying the car. Like the new Audi A3 1.9tdi's tax will only be 100 for instance.

Anyway, that's another topic I was just pointing out that Used Cars ARE effected buy the Co2 tax rates (both VRT if importing & simple road tax) and some places online were confusing customers by suggesting (intentionaly of otherwise) that only new cars were effected by by both taxes which is just simply not true -- on both counts.

AudiChris wrote: »

Personally I don't get your point and I think that you're nit-picking.

Nit-picking? It's clear that they point out used cars will not be effected - that's at least 80% of drivers in Ireland. If you think that's nit-picking well then good on you.

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't see this information as misleading.

Its not misleading at all. I'm just imagining it.

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't see how you're confused.

Confused? Coming from someone who wonders how the new Co2 rates could possibly mean someone with a 2.0 might have to pay road tax of 2000 come July - well then I don't think I'm the one confused.

Nico

R.O.R

Nico22 wrote: »

***Uninformed Rubbish

Nico

I didn't bother to read all of your rant. Only got so far until I realised you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore have no grounds for an argument.

Your mate with the 166 2.0 is currently paying €539 per year. When his tax expires in July and he goes to renew it he will be paying €590 - NOT €2000

OutlawPete

AudiChris wrote: »

Also, you left out the line...

To enquire how the above will affect your vehicle of interest please contact our sales executives on 01 490 0000 or alternatively e-mail us at info@rathdownmotors.ie.

...directly below the bit you copied and pasted. I'd be more interested to hear what their phone explanation of the webpage is rather than our interpretations of it.

Maybe it was a little misleading of you to leave that out of your original post??

Next time I'll post their whole website will I?

Look if someone has a website saying hash is bad for you if your over the age of 29 but won't effect you if your younger than that and then say's at the bottom of the page:

"To enquire how the above will affect your brain and lungs of interest please contact our sales executives on 01 *** 0000 or alternatively e-mail us at nonsense@bullcraplawns.com"

.. then does that make their statements correct? just because they have asked to be contacted for more info?

No it doesn't and if they made it clear like this:

Importing NEW and USED cars will be based on the same new Co2 based tax rates come July.

.. and that:

The new Co2 based road tax rates will also be the SAME for both NEW and USED cars.

.. well then they wouldn't be a need to say contact us if your none the wiser about a specific car as you wouldn't be -- you'd be crystal clear on the issue.

I have just summed up the whole issue in two lines and the couldn't do it with a whole website.

Nico

OutlawPete

Stekelly wrote: »

How will it affect you? Any used car bought in Ireland is already registered here so the co2 based doesnt come into it.

It does when it comes to road tax. VRT is NOT the only was the Co2 based car tax rates are effected.

Look go back to ad and re-read it. Yes, I am saying that it implies that importing used cars will not be effected by the new Co2 emissions -- but it also implies that used cars will NOT be effected even from the new Co2 emissions based road tax rates.

Is there really only three people on this post that can see that? This is my last post on this matter - I have had enough of people saying the same thing over and over.

The new Co2 emissions based tax rates (both VRT and road tax) effect NEW & USED cars and if people cannot see that that ad suggested otherwise well then I couldn't be bothered trying to explain it to them.

Just go and check out how much it will cost you to get your car taxed after July if your driving a Alfa 166 2.0 or any other car that produces a similar Co2 emission.

Nico

Steve

R.O.R wrote: »

I didn't bother to read all of your rant. Only got so far until I realised you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore have no grounds for an argument.

+1
Nico - please go and inform yourself about how the new tax will work and please discontinue this rubbish.

Steve

Nico22 wrote: »

Just go and check out how much it will cost you to get your car taxed after July if your driving a Alfa 166 2.0 or any other car that produces a similar Co2 emission.

As already pointed out to you - if it's registered before july it'll cost €590

OutlawPete

stevec wrote: »

+1
Nico - please go and inform yourself about how the new tax will work and please discontinue this rubbish.

R.O.R wrote: »

I didn't bother to read all of your rant.

Maybe you should have. You might then realize that I know exaclty what I am talking about.

R.O.R wrote: »

Your mate with the 166 2.0 is currently paying €539 per year. When his tax expires in July and he goes to renew it he will be paying €590 - NOT €2000

Wrong! His alfa produces a Co2 score of 230 g/km which makes his car tax €2000 in September.



This is exactly what I am talking about. People just spouting on about this issue when they really do not understand the facts.

Nico

Padraig Mor

Nico22 wrote: »

Wrong! His alfa produces a Co2 score of 230 g/km which makes his car tax €2000 in September.

This is exactly what I am talking about. People just spouting on about this issue when they really do not understand the facts.

Nico

If his Alfa is already registered in Ireland his tax will be €590 in September. CO2 based motor tax only affects cars bought in or imported into Ireland after June.

From citizensinformation.ie:
For new cars and pre-owned imports registered from 1 July 2008, motor tax charges will be determined on the basis of seven CO2 bands. Charges will range from 100 euro a year for the greenest cars to 2,000 euro for cars with the highest emissions ratings.

Try reading.

--amadeus--

Classic! All that ranting and he's got his knickers in a twist over something that he totally misunderstands!!

OutlawPete

Padraig Mor wrote: »

If his Alfa is already registered in Ireland his tax will be €590 in September. CO2 based motor tax only affects cars bought in or imported into Ireland after June.

From citizensinformation.ie:
For new cars and pre-owned imports registered from 1 July 2008, motor tax charges will be determined on the basis of seven CO2 bands. Charges will range from 100 euro a year for the greenest cars to 2,000 euro for cars with the highest emissions ratings.

Well if new Co2 emissions based road tax rates do not effect cars registered here before July then I apologise.

Does this then mean that road tax is not going up for large jeeps etc? (if registered before July? and that if you have a 1.0L Yaris your road tax won't go down either?

Sorry again if I got it wrong. I'll actually be happy as I have Audi A3 1.6 Auto and it's tax was going to be over €1000.

Nico

OutlawPete

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Classic! All that ranting and he's got his knickers in a twist over something that he totally misunderstands!!

Yup, sorry guys

peasant

Nico22 wrote: »

Does this then mean that road tax is not going up for large jeeps etc? (if registered before July? and that if you have a 1.0L Yaris your road tax won't go down either?

I could hear the Penny (or is it cent now?) drop even up here

Steve

Nico22 wrote: »

Does this then mean that road tax is not going up for large jeeps etc? (if registered before July? and that if you have a 1.0L Yaris your road tax won't go down either?

Glad you got the picture now!!

all pre july tax rates are going up by the usual 10% or whatever it is - nothing will go down.

OutlawPete

stevec wrote: »

Glad you got the picture now!!

all pre july tax rates are going up by the usual 10% or whatever it is - nothing will go down.

Thats crazy. So you dont think they will ever include pre July 2008 registered cars in Co2 based road tax rates? Man you would be fuming if you just bought a 1.9Tdi Audi A3 that will have road tax at 100 Euro if registered after July but you registered in Jan or Feb or whatever and your road tax is 590 and will go up by 10% a year -- thats crazy -- for such a low emissions car.

Seriousily I came so close importing a new A3 a few months back. I would be going nuts now knowing that I should have waited untill July to get the new 100 euro road tax plus the 14% VRT rate.

Sorry again for getting things so twisted. I blame Bertie though

-Chris-

There's a sneaking suspicion among quite a few of us that there will be an ability for drivers to opt-in to the new road tax system further down the line, as the opposition are scoring easy points on the government over how this new arrangement punishes drivers who bought green cars prior to the budget announcement (i.e. those who are acutally green drivers rather than those looking for cheaper motoring).

How and when this retrospective taxation system could be implemented is up for debate.

Vikings

Nico22 wrote: »

People just spouting on about this issue when they really do not understand the facts.

Nico

I googled irony and it gave me this quote


I'd say it will be a long time before any sort of CO2 based Road Tax will be implemented to pre July 08 cars.

How many cars are on the road today? And how many of them would be negatively affected by the new CO2 tax rates? Obviously I don't have any figures but I would imagine it is a crazy number, there must be a fair warning given to all those who would be affected negatively to give them the option to change to a 'greener' car.

--amadeus--

Well credit for being a big enough man to admit you screwed up!

OutlawPete

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Classic! All that ranting and he's got his knickers in a twist over something that he totally misunderstands!!

Turns out my ears hadn't deceived me as much as you guys had thought.

My mate with the Alfa 166 that heard this interview (Monday Galway Bay Fm?) with the Green Party TD that had him phoning me with worse ranting that I could ever manage and said that the TD was adamant that all used cars would have their road tax based on Co2 emissions.

He missed the start of the interview so he must have said then that it was only 226g and over and that the rest of the cars would be phased in but I get the impression the Greens have been working away at this behind the scenes as they knew that it was going to be a crazy situation that if say after July you went and bought an 04 Audi A3 1.9Tdi you'd be charged 590 Euros road tax but if you popped across the border and bought the same 04 Audi you'd only be charged 100 euro for tax!

Madness and I think they knew it and now they are just trying to avoid as much egg on their face as they can.

Nico

-Chris-

Nico22 wrote: »

Turns out my ears hadn't deceived me as much as you guys had thought. ...

...Madness and I think they knew it and now they are just trying to avoid as much egg on their face as they can.

Nico

Again, let's make sure we fully understand this before we blow our lids!

Riskymove

Nico22 wrote: »

Exactly - glad someone seen where I was coming from

The ABC thing is correct from the point of view of the garage selling new/used cars...until the latest decisions of course which change things again..lol!


...imports different alright