DOMS in traps after Deadlifts - normal?

joker77

I've started back doing Deadlifts, and the last couple of sessions my upper traps have been sore for the couple of days after them.
Would you say my form is good or bad, based on where I'm feeling the DOMS? I also do some Pull-ups, DB Rows and Lat Pull downs the days I'm doing Deadlifts.

Also, my chest DOMS are quite bad over the last while as well - I feel it just either side of my breastbone - and it's sore if you press on it. On Chest day I do Bench, DB Press, Cable Fly and Dumbbell Fly usually.

Patto

I read recently that Doms are primarly caused by concentric contractions. i.e. the negitive part of a lift or for example using your hamstrings as breaks when you run downhill.

In a deadlift your traps are mostly in isometric contraction so you shouldn't really suffer too much for too long from DOMs in your traps. Unlike lunges or straight leg deadlifts where you almost can't avoid DOMS.

Colm_OReilly

The Deadlift can and will expose a weakness anywhere in the posterior chain so yes it is possible.

Are you shrugging at the top?

If you're doing pull ups and deads I don't see a reason to add in lat pull downs or rows. Perhaps add in power cleans?

Why are you splitting your routine into bodyparts?

brianthebard

I used to get that, I was pulling my shoulders back too much at the top of the lift. Try keeping your chest puffed out and shoulders wide but not back from the start to end of the lift, if that makes sense.

BossArky

If I deadlift with a wide grip around the rings I get serious DOMS in my traps.

It is so sore that it becomes a thing of beauty in itself and I cannot stop hooking my arm behind my next to prod them.

Colm_OReilly

BossArky wrote: »

If I deadlift with a wide grip around the rings I get serious DOMS in my traps.

It is so sore that it becomes a thing of beauty in itself and I cannot stop hooking my arm behind my next to prod them.

Any particular reason you're DLing with essentially a Snatch grip?

Dragan

OP, whats your training goal?

BossArky

My usual deadlift grip is around shoulder width.

I tried out the snatch grip deadlift after reading a poster on here asking how to build up their traps. Someone replied, probably Hanley, recommending that a good way to hit the traps was to use a snatch grip.

I tried it out for myself and it did exactly what it said on the tin. Try it. The only problem is that the bar swings in at an inappropriate location at the top of the deadlift, slightly higher (and more uncomfy) than normal.

joker77

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Why are you splitting your routine into bodyparts?

I was under the impression that it was a good way to train? i.e. effective for building muscle - hitting muscle groups in 1 day then allowing them sufficient resting time?

brianthebard wrote: »

I used to get that, I was pulling my shoulders back too much at the top of the lift. Try keeping your chest puffed out and shoulders wide but not back from the start to end of the lift, if that makes sense.

I think I may be doing the same - I was definitely pulling my shoulders back at the end to get the chest puffed out.

Dragan wrote: »

OP, whats your training goal?

It's kind of up in the air at the moment. I've just finished playing football - the season is nearly over and I've too much on in work, so I'm going to focus on the gym for the next few months. I'd like to build muscle, and functional strength. I suppose this would be with a view to returning to playing football at the end of the summer, but maybe not.

Pherekydes

Patto wrote: »

I read recently that Doms are primarly caused by concentric contractions. i.e. the negitive part of a lift or for example using your hamstrings as breaks when you run downhill.

In a deadlift your traps are mostly in isometric contraction so you shouldn't really suffer too much for too long from DOMs in your traps. Unlike lunges or straight leg deadlifts where you almost can't avoid DOMS.

You use your quads as brakes when running downhill. You attempt to contract the quad while it is being lengthened. These are known as eccentric contractions.

DOMS can be caused by concentric and eccentric contractions, but, as anyone who's ever run downhill for an extended period knows, eccentric contractions cause the worst DOMS.

Dragan

Slow coach wrote: »

DOMS can be caused by concentric and eccentric contractions, but, as anyone who's ever run downhill for an extended period knows, eccentric contractions cause the worst DOMS.

I remember back in the Cross Country days we would always check how many downhill patches were in it and for how long and then load up potassium accordingly.

Downhill running sucks monkeys.

Hanley

Patto wrote: »

In a deadlift your traps are mostly in isometric contraction so you shouldn't really suffer too much for too long from DOMs in your traps. Unlike lunges or straight leg deadlifts where you almost can't avoid DOMS.

Regardless of whether or not a muscle is moving thru it's full ROM it's still contracting hard to stabilse, hence the pain in the traps.

A interesting point on this acutally that I only discovered myself last week... DOM's in my traps at least seem to be largely dependent on my starting position. If I make an active attempt to arch my upper back before I pul from the floor I tend to get more DOMs than if I just pull without giving much thought to my upper back.

Big deadlifts have been pulled with rounded upper backs and arched upper back so it's hard to say which is "better". The reason I'm arching hard with my upper back off the floor at the moment is because I think it will help my squat positions by strengthening my upper back and allowing me to keep it arch with the bar across my shoulders.

joker77

Hanley wrote: »

A interesting point on this acutally that I only discovered myself last week... DOM's in my traps at least seem to be largely dependent on my starting position. If I make an active attempt to arch my upper back before I pul from the floor I tend to get more DOMs than if I just pull without giving much thought to my upper back.

After the first time back doing the Deadlift, I was sore in my lower back the next day, so the last couple of times I was making a much bigger effort to try to get the form right. So I think I may have been arching my back from the start alright.

Dragan

If your looking to add decent size then a bodypart split can be a good way to go. I know that Charles Poliquin (sp?) and Joe Defranco both like snatch grip deads, often from a raised box for those with the flexibility because it does a lot for width and thickness of the back, and strength.

For complicated muscle groups with a lots of tie ins, DOMS will normally occur around the area of the tie ins to a greater degree than anywhere else. This is because DOMS are caused by a few reasons, the one that would seem to be affecting you is toxins staying in the area afterwards, maybe low electrolyte leves as well.

brianthebard

joker77 wrote: »

After the first time back doing the Deadlift, I was sore in my lower back the next day, so the last couple of times I was making a much bigger effort to try to get the form right. So I think I may have been arching my back from the start alright.

By sore do you mean doms? Or sore in a bad way? (cause we all know that doms rockz;) )

joker77

brianthebard wrote: »

By sore do you mean doms? Or sore in a bad way? (cause we all know that doms rockz;) )

It was probably DOMS but it's worrying to get that feeling in your lower back!

Patto

Slow coach wrote: »

You use your quads as brakes when running downhill. You attempt to contract the quad while it is being lengthened. These are known as eccentric contractions.

DOMS can be caused by concentric and eccentric contractions, but, as anyone who's ever run downhill for an extended period knows, eccentric contractions cause the worst DOMS.

You are correct on all points, I think. I'm going out on a limb here, tell me if this is total bolony.

When you run downhill your quads maintain knee flexion.

Your hamstrings are used to dampen hip extension. Your own momentum is what keeps you going forward.

Where do you feel it has your leading foot hits the ground, in the hips or in the knees? Well both but I reckon, but most of the energy is absorbed by the hips. And if you want to release the brakes and run faster, what do you do? You let your hips go by releasing the hamstrings.