Target heart rate question

Padraig Mor

Having looked at another thread I have a question about target heart rate when doing cardio. Which is better for burning fat - moderate or high?

My name is apt - I'm a fattie. 33 yrs old, 5'10" and 263 lbs as of early January. So, it's been off to the gym with me for the last while (and a drastic reduction in eating crap for the last 4 weeks or so). I go first thing in the morning (about 8am) after having breakfast at about 7.15 - bowl of porridge with banana, or Shredded Wheat etc. (please don't suggest I leave breakfast till later - I wouldn't leave home without it!).

On a typical day I do about 45 mins cardio - much of this at approx 150 bpm. (Dont do weights - yet; will start when my weight loss levels off.) Would I burn more fat keeping my heart to approx 120? I've seen plenty of posts here about burning glycogen and muscle at higher rates but my gut is definitely smaller! Or is it a case of "whatever works for you"? I've lost 21 lbs in the last 6 or7 weeks - a lot I know, but I guess it's probably because I started so high. The weight loss jumped when I cut back on the food as well.

Pen1987

I want the body of a sprinter, so I train like a sprinter. I dont do any long/middle distance running because distance runners are skinny and lanky. I want bulk, like you see on a top class sprinter.

My point is: How you train depends on the body type you want.

If youre looking to lose weight and bulk up, start lifting weights and run LESS. Lifting weights improves your metabolism which makes you loose weight quicker. Even if you're not looking to bulk up but want to lose fat, use high-reps/light-weight and it'll improve the rate that you process food.

Patto

Great work, well done. 21lb in 6 or 7 weeks is huge. Just be warned it wont continue like that. Thyically you should be able to lose 7lbs every month though no problem until you start approaching 15-12% body fat.

150bpm for 45mins a day is bang on and it looks like it is working for you so I wouldn't go changing it.

Patto

Pen1987 wrote: »

I want the body of a sprinter, so I train like a sprinter. I dont do any long/middle distance running because distance runners are skinny and lanky. I want bulk, like you see on a top class sprinter.

My point is: How you train depends on the body type you want.

What the £$%^ has that got to do with the OPs question? I presume from the information given the guy's overriding goal is to loose body fat. What he is doing is working, nice a simple. For God sake keep it simple for now.

Body of a sprinter me &*!!*x

justsomebloke

why weight to start doing weights? Start now as it will help to keep your lean body mass up thus keeping your metabolism higher and so helping fat loss. There is no need for you to weight till your weight loss levels off.

Also stick to having breakfast in the morning but I would suggest maybe stick up the rest of your diet as well. If you can you should be looking to have 5-6 equally sized meals during the day.

Racing Flat

Patto wrote: »

Great work, well done. 21lb in 6 or 7 weeks is huge. Just be warned it wont continue like that. Thyically you should be able to lose 7lbs every month though no problem until you start approaching 15-12% body fat.

150bpm for 45mins a day is bang on and it looks like it is working for you so I wouldn't go changing it.

+1

If you drop down to 120 you won't be working as hard, therefore you won't burn as many calories, so you won't lose as much fat. That doesn't mean to lose most fat exercise so that your heart rate is as high as possible as you wouldn't be able to sustain this for very long at all. If 150 is making you breathless and 'comfortably uncomfortable' ie by the end you're glad to stop the exercise as you're fairly fckued you're doing a great job. 45mins of this a few times a week would be great. I personally would completely ignore any advice to do weights for now. A lot of people fart around when doing weights, ie 10secs of exercise then 10mins of getting to the next exercise, getting it ready etc. so they do 3 mins of exercise in 45mins... You've a lot of weight to lose and you've made a great start. Continue this, gradually progressing ie number of times a week you do it and length of time at the exercise as well as intensity, (go faster and faster gradually, albeit at the smae heart rate). I wouldn't think about weights till you are down to around 180pounds. Even then I personally wouldn't bother with weights as I prefer getting breathless.
Best of luck,
Jeremy

rubadub

Starting weights while overweight has benefits. You probably already have more muscle than the average person since you are in effect weight lifting all day long already. Studies have shown that overweight people can still put on muscle while on a calorie deficit.

If you stuck with cardio on a deficit you would lose muscle along with fat. The you have to build it back again, and if you are still on a calorie deficit then this will be even harder.

If you are overweight and running then it is doing your joints no favours either, and you will probably be out of breath soon enough. Weights are perfect for you to start on. They raise your metabolism and will help you shed fat while working out AND on your days off. On your off days your body is developing new muscle, which takes calories (think of pregnant women needing to eat more to help a developing child). Once the muscle is on you need calories just to maintain it.

Racing Flat

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I've lost 21 lbs in the last 6 or7 weeks - a lot I know, but I guess it's probably because I started so high. The weight loss jumped when I cut back on the food as well.

If it aint broke don't fix it. Carry on as you are. Forget about weights for now. If, as you suggested, you introduce weights at a later stage, don't do it at the expense of your cardio which is working. Do it as an addition.

Supercell

Racing Flat wrote: »

I wouldn't think about weights till you are down to around 180pounds. Even then I personally wouldn't bother with weights as I prefer getting breathless.
Best of luck,
Jeremy

I'd completely disagree, if your not getting breathless doing weights then i'd suggest you need to up your intensity.
I'm often out of breath at the end of a particularly intensive set and the heart is definitely pounding too.

At the OPs weight doing weights would be a great way to loose the fat as the cardio is likely to be boring (not able to do it at any reasonable speed for any length of time) and will burn the fat far longer than any moderate intensity cardio will do.

That said, doing both would give the best of both worlds, but if it had to be one or the other then weights it would be for maximum fat loss.

Racing Flat

Longfield wrote: »

I'm often out of breath at the end of a particularly intensive set and the heart is definitely pounding too.

Fair enough. As long as the recovery isn't too long and then you do the next set and get breathless and do this for a number of sets, it will be a great cardio session, more or less an interval session. That works well if you're motivated and you know what you're doing. But it's very easy to 'hide' when doing weights. Do a set then fart around for 10minutes before the next set. I've seen this a lot in the gym. Whereas if you are on the treadmill for 45 mins you just have to stay on, if you get off you'll know that you've not done your session. The novice weights person, or average gym-goer I would say takes it easy (maybe unwittingly) when doing weights. So doing weights correctly may be good for weight loss but for someone close on 20stone, working hard and not hiding will be essential. That's why I said forget the weights till down to around 13 stone. But I know most people on here are weights enthusiasts. Some of these seem to think weights is the best way, if not essential, to lose weight. I'm in a runnign club. We get new members every few weeks. A lot of these are your average punter ie 2-3stone overweight. Those who come to the club twice a week and do another 2 runs themselves always lose the weight in 3 months. It's quite remarkable. So a surefire way to lose the weight - get running.

OP, you're doing absolutely fine. Don't cut out the cardio even if you do want to do weights.

justsomebloke

Racing Flat wrote: »

I'm in a runnign club. We get new members every few weeks. A lot of these are your average punter ie 2-3stone overweight. Those who come to the club twice a week and do another 2 runs themselves always lose the weight in 3 months. It's quite remarkable. So a surefire way to lose the weight - get running

so what you are saying is that running is the best way to lose weight.
Have you ever thought that the the people who go twice a week to a running club and go running twice by them selves are actually just dedicated people and that it is only this dedication that gets them to lose the weight rather being the fact that they are running that is the cause of their success.:rolleyes:

seriously if people where showing that much dedication to most forms of activity they would lose the weight in that period of time. Ok if they where doing weights chances are they mightn't have lost as much weight but chances are they would have retained a higher proportion of Lean body mass and probably lost a higher % of bodyfat but as most people just look at numbers that might not be what they want, and surprisingly this is the reason most of the people here advocate starting weights and less as cardio for people who want to lose weight, as the weights will help them maintain a higher lean body mass helping them keep their metabolism up and thus helping make loss as easy as possible.

In relation to your remarks about people not putting the effort into weights when they first start I would say them same about cardio. I see many people when they start arsing around spending 5-10 warming up on one machine then doing 5 minutes exercise and then moving onto another machine and spending another 5-10 minutes warming up on that before moving on to yet another machine. So please don't make sweeping generalisations like that unless you are going to make the same generalisation about the activities you are pushing. I said earlier it is actually the people you show dedication that will see the results so the people who spend 45 minutes on one cardio machine will also probably be the ones who push them selves doing weights

OP my suggestion as before remains the same do both

smashey

Patto wrote: »

What the £$%^ has that got to do with the OPs question? I presume from the information given the guy's overriding goal is to loose body fat. What he is doing is working, nice a simple. For God sake keep it simple for now.

Body of a sprinter me &*!!*x

Patto,

I'm new here so I will be gentle.

A bit of civility please.

I will not tolerate posts of this nature.

Dragan

Guys,

i'd like to see people posting advice for the OP, as oppossed to their own training etc? Cheers.

OP, it might be a good idea to stay going as you are now if you are happy with the results? You seem to be losing a nice amount of weight and i would keep that up, and then when results start to slow i would introduce more and more activity in the form of lifting some weights, maybe doing a bit of sports and such as well.

My advice would simply be.......if you have the time and the energry then yes, do a bit more, if not and you are happy as you are now then keep plugging away but in time you will need to up the intensity/volume of your training as the body begins to adapt to pressures placed on it.

Tazdedub

Op, you are doing great with the weight loss.

I can understand why people are telling you use weights as well because this will help with the toning up but if you dont want to use them yet then don't. What I would suggest is keep with the cardio stuff but try introduce other exercises such as press ups, squats without weights, sit ups, back exercises and jumps using a step box or what ever they are called.You will see a lot of people in the gym doing these exercises, I know I used a lot of these when I was getting over operations and I couldn't do weights. These will all help with the weight loss and toning up without having to hit the weights.

Padraig Mor

OP here. Thanks for all the help folks - it's much appreciated. Probably didn't make it clear but I've actually being going to the gym for the last two years without much result. Varied from weeks of 4 days/week to nothing for weeks - you know the way; it's how gyms make their money! The difference since Jan is that (i) I've tried to be consistent (ii) it's been 'bye bye' to crappy food and snacks. I think (ii) is probably responsible for the majority of the weight loss.

Re running: the treadmill is currently pretty much the least of my routine as I found that my shins were murdering me after even a short while running. For the last year or so, I've only used the treadmill to cool down (5 min - brisk walk down to strolling pace). However, for the last two weeks I've been shaking the ground in the gym by adding three minutes of moderate jogging prior to this! Will bump this to four min next week (gone are the days when I'd lash out a 5k run on the treadmill!).

For those interested my current routine is:

1. Bike x 20 min. About 9.5 km.
2. Rower x 5 min. About 1 km but only started using it the last couple of weeks.
3. Cross trainer x 15/17 min. 3 km or so. Used to do a lot more on this and might bump it up again.
4. Treadmill x 8 min. Moderate jog slowing to stroll.
Calories burnt according to machines about 500 or so (560 this morning). This has risen from 350ish in January. As a poster above put it - I'm "comfortably uncomfortable" with this, and certainly breaking a sweat.

I also do a *brisk* 20 minute walk 3/4 evenings a week before dinner.

Weights: I've nothing against them! It's mostly a time issue, i.e. I'm strolling into work 20 min late as it is. I find it hard enough to get out of bed without rising 30 min earlier! Starting weights will most likely mean I'll have to add at least another morning in the gym - not that there's anything wrong with that......but I didn't hit 260 lbs by not being lazy! I'd like to be 'ripped' as much as the next guy but it's simply not a priority right now - losing fat is. I completely see the logic behind increasing muscle mass to up my metabolism though and recognise that resistance training is really an essential part of the workout. What I've planned is to ride the "weight loss through cardio routine and calorie restriction" wave while it's giving good results and then add resistance when the loss tapers off - which is likely within the next couple of weeks. Getting started will be daunting though - even though I used do plenty in my fitter days a decade ago (5 days cardio; 3 with weights as well). There's so many machines now it's hard to know where to start! The staff in the gym wouldn't inspire too much confidence either. However, I reckon I'll be getting started with them within two weeks.

My diet. I think this is really the core of the matter. I've *seriously* cut back. Typical day:
7.15. Bowl porridge/shredded wheat etc.
10.00. Cup of coffee.
12.30. Bowl of soup.
15.00. Apple, cup of tea.
17.00. Carrot or piece of fruit etc.
19.30. Dinner. Mostly pretty healthy. Meat and 2 veg etc. Full sized portions, with plenty of potatoes.
20.30. Yoghurt etc.
22.00. Cup of tea.

It probably seems like I don't eat much during the (working) day but all I've cut out is the Danish with coffee and swapped a sandwich for soup at lunch - and added an apple at 3. What's gone? The crap! The snacks when I get home in the evening (carrot instead) and later at night (have a cup of tea now, which I actually find quite filling). The Friday night Chinese (must be 2000 cals in them I'd say). And the booze; I'll still drink as before if I'm out but the few bottles at home at the weekend are gone!

Once again - thanks folks. And re my original question: I reckon it's OK to keep the ticker at 150 then?

Padraig Mor

Well, down another 2.4 lbs this week so still going in the right direction. Have noticed in the last few days that I need to push harder to get the heart up to 150 - surely a good sign. Must start a thread in the logs section actually...

Roper

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My diet. I think this is really the core of the matter. I've *seriously* cut back. Typical day:
7.15. Bowl porridge/shredded wheat etc.
10.00. Cup of coffee.
12.30. Bowl of soup.
15.00. Apple, cup of tea.
17.00. Carrot or piece of fruit etc.
19.30. Dinner. Mostly pretty healthy. Meat and 2 veg etc. Full sized portions, with plenty of potatoes.
20.30. Yoghurt etc.
22.00. Cup of tea.

First of all, you're doing savage, so keep it up. But just thought I'd add a comment on your diet of I may?

I don't think you're eating enough or at the right times. I know that sounds silly when someone is doing weight loss but it's got more to do with timing than quantity. If you eat a slightly larger lunch and cut down on the plenty of spuds at dinner time you might see a greater difference. 19.30 is quite late to be eating for weight loss. When I want to drop down I make a rule of no food after 7pm, except maybe a post-training snack. Could you eat earlier or would work prevent that? The larger lunch would give you a bit more energy throughout the day and maybe then you wouldn't need to have a drill of spuds with your dinner. Spuds are quite starchy and don't lend well to fat loss.

Just a suggestion though and to be honest, you're doing so well that I would hesitate to change anything until you plateau.

BossArky

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Getting started will be daunting though - even though I used do plenty in my fitter days a decade ago (5 days cardio; 3 with weights as well). There's so many machines now it's hard to know where to start! The staff in the gym wouldn't inspire too much confidence either.

Re Weight Training: To be honest you don't need to work on the fancy machines - so don't worry about them.

Focus on "simple" barbell exercises such as squat, deadlift, bench press, military press and pull ups. These are simple in terms of equipment, but will be of alot more benefit to your body as fat burners and muscle builders.

These compound exercises are more difficult to do properly. If you have questions (and no one in your gym can help) start a specific thread here and you'll get heaps of advice.

justsomebloke

ok first off pick a cardio exercis and stick with it. there is no real benefit of trying to fit 4 different exercises into the one session, if anything else this will be less effective due to the fact that you will have warm up/cool down periods on each of the machines and then time going from one to the other. So just stick with the one machine.

In relation to the weights don't worry about the machines, instead if you have access to free weights use them. Try and build a programme around compound movements like squat, bench, deadlift etc, assisted pullups etc etc.

In relation to the diet I have to agree for the most part with roper. Truthfully I don't think you are eating enough and this could be leading your body to be in starvation mode basically it is going to retain as much fat as possible and will use lean body mass instead and this isn't what you want. also there is very little protein and fats in your diet again this could be leading you to lose more lean body mass then you should be.
I would suggest that you using something like fitday.com to track your eating as this will give you a good indication as to what your rough daily intake should be compared to what you are actually eating. I would also suggest going through the stickies at the top of the forum as there is a lot of information that maybe useful to yourself

Racing Flat

jsb wrote: »

Have you ever thought that the the people who go twice a week to a running club and go running twice by them selves are actually just dedicated people and that it is only this dedication that gets them to lose the weight rather being the fact that they are running that is the cause of their success.:rolleyes:

In relation to your remarks about people not putting the effort into weights when they first start I would say them same about cardio. I see many people when they start arsing around spending 5-10 warming up on one machine then doing 5 minutes exercise and then moving onto another machine and spending another 5-10 minutes warming up on that before moving on to yet another machine. So please don't make sweeping generalisations like that unless you are going to make the same generalisation about the activities you are pushing. I said earlier it is actually the people you show dedication that will see the results so the people who spend 45 minutes on one cardio machine will also probably be the ones who push them selves doing weights

Excellent points in response to my sweeping generalisations. Totally agree that people do the same on the cardio equipment. True you have to be dedicated to run 4 times a week and you also won't want to be left behind, and you'll get competetive so it may be due to dedication, personality type, competetiveness, or training with a group as opposed to the running that leads to such success. But success it does lead to. Maybe though it's easier to get this combination of dedication etc by going to a running club than by going to the gym, due to the nature of the beatss - running is continuous, weights has to be stop-start. The people I referred to above being lazy doing weights and those that you referred to being lazy using cardio equipment in the gym...well it's better than doing nothing, but they could do a lot more. Gyms make a fortune on these people!