NCT,Tax and a Garda. What can I do?

NP14

Ok.

Get stopped last night. Tax out of date by 19 days, and NCT out of date by 14 months. I've been stopped a couple of times in the past year and the NCT has not even warranted a mention by the Gardai.

I've been given 10 days to present Licence, Tax and NCT to a Garda station.

Licence, insurance and tax is no problem, but the NCT cannot be got within the 10 days, they are fully booked up and waiting lists are a minimum of 2 weeks.
He said he will summons me if I don't have the NCT in 10 days, even though I told him that was impossible due to the lists. I think he wants to summons me, the f**ker.

I'm emigrating in a few weeks and I wonder if anyone has any ideas?
Should I sell the car? or otherwise get rid of it? Would that nulify the NCT
issue?

IrishRover

You are allowed to renew your tax at any time during the month after your tax expires - it says that on the online renewal forms they post out.
Therefore the only thing out of order is the nct and I'm surprised to hear some of them seem to want to enforce that now.
If your insurance was not expired I wouldn't be too worried, but if you ring the nct people, who generally seem quite helpful, and tell them you are flexible and will take a cancellation you might find you could get a date within a few days.

Stephen

14 months is fairly taking the piss with the NCT tbh. You might get away with an appointment confirmation letter from the NCTS though.

NP14

IrishRover wrote: »

You are allowed to renew your tax at any time during the month after your tax expires - it says that on the online renewal forms they post out.
Therefore the only thing out of order is the nct and I'm surprised to hear some of them seem to want to enforce that now.
If your insurance was not expired I wouldn't be too worried, but if you ring the nct people, who generally seem quite helpful, and tell them you are flexible and will take a cancellation you might find you could get a date within a few days.

Thanks IrishRover,

He was young and very officious, very wet behind the ears, not long out of Templemore would be my guess. I got onto the NCT bookings this morning and they pretty much said I had no hope of getting it in time.:mad:

IMO, all sectors of the ciil service have been given orders to increase the enforcement of anything that increases the tax take now that the wind has been taken out of the public finances.:(

Tea drinker

NP14 wrote: »

Thanks IrishRover,

He was young and very officious, very wet behind the ears, not long out of Templemore would be my guess. I got onto the NCT bookings this morning and they pretty much said I had no hope of getting it in time.:mad:

IMO, all sectors of the ciil service have been given orders to increase the enforcement of anything that increases the tax take now that the wind has been taken out of the public finances.:(

Come on, leave the Garda alone and take care of your own business!

NP14

Stephen wrote: »

14 months is fairly taking the piss with the NCT tbh. You might get away with an appointment confirmation letter from the NCTS though.

I think the NCT is a bit of a piss-take in itself. Not necessary for insurance or Tax, not even mentioned by most Gardai on the roads.

I suggested to him that I would be able to have a letter of appointment in 10 days, but no, he was determined to get me to court.

IrishRover

Yeah, that approach doesn't really seem to benefit anyone or accomplish much.
I agree that it seems as if the guys who are in the force a bit longer tend to take a more considered approach to policing.

If you really can't get a test date anywhere within 10 days at least get the proof that you have an appointment booked.

JHMEG

I wonder what happens if you emigrate without getting it sorted?

Could it be.. cop escalates it, summons you to court, you don't show (naturally), and then either:
a) judge issues bench warrant for your arrest, and you are "picked up" when you come back into the country, and kept in custody till your court appearance, or
b) judge sentences you in your absense by means of a fine and penalty points, which you don't pay (naturally), and you get a criminal record which means you can't go to the USA and a whole pile of other countries.

..or maybe nothing will happen.

Anan1

NP14 wrote: »

I think the NCT is a bit of a piss-take in itself. Not necessary for insurance or Tax, not even mentioned by most Gardai on the roads.

I suggested to him that I would be able to have a letter of appointment in 10 days, but no, he was determined to get me to court.

Don't take this the wrong way, but having read your posts i'm wondering whether the Guard just didn't like your attitude? After all, he's just doing the job we pay him to do - you're the one who's been driving around without a valid NCT for 14 months.

NP14

Anan1 wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, but having read your posts i'm wondering whether the Guard just didn't like your attitude? After all, he's just doing the job we pay him to do - you're the one who's been driving around without a valid NCT for 14 months.

It was nothing to do with my attitude. I'm always nice to Gardai as I realise that they are just doing their job, and I know it's not the nicest job to be doing. I was totally respectful and subjugated myself to his authority.

He just seemed determined for some reason, part of which I speculate that it may be something to do with orders to enforce measures that will increase the tax take. (We'll see a lot more of this in the months and years ahead IMHO.

I'm just looking for some opinions. If I sell the car for scrap or whatever does anyone know of any breakers who might buy it?

And, if I sell it, does that nulify the whole NCT thing? Can I be summonsed for not having NCT on a car that I do not own?Any opinions of this anyone please?

I'm not trying to outwit the system, but as I said, I'm leaving the country. and I don't want it to escalate legally into something nasty, when in fact the
whole matter is over something relatively minor, which may or may not be bothered with depending onthe Garda.

craichoe

Don't know if you've copped this but he can do you even if you get your NCT and tax sorted out within the 10 days.

Say i get stopped .. say i have insurance but don't. Tell them i'll show it within 10 days and insure the car the next day, i still wouldn't have been insured when i got stopped.

Anyways man, your screwed.
Been there and done it !

Why not tell the cop your leaving the country, he'll probably give up as he won't want the paperwork.

Stephen

You owned it on the date you were pulled so I'd imagine they'd still be within their rights to summons you.

Boggles

NP14 wrote: »

It was nothing to do with my attitude. I'm always nice to Gardai as I realise that they are just doing their job, and I know it's not the nicest job to be doing. I was totally respectful and subjugated myself to his authority.

He just seemed determined for some reason, part of which I speculate that it may be something to do with orders to enforce measures that will increase the tax take. (We'll see a lot more of this in the months and years ahead IMHO.

I'm just looking for some opinions. If I sell the car for scrap or whatever does anyone know of any breakers who might buy it?

And, if I sell it, does that nulify the whole NCT thing? Can I be summonsed for not having NCT on a car that I do not own?Any opinions of this anyone please?

I'm not trying to outwit the system, but as I said, I'm leaving the country. and I don't want it to escalate legally into something nasty, when in fact the
whole matter is over something relatively minor, which may or may not be bothered with depending onthe Garda.

Sounds like your car isn't road worthy, the reason the NCT was implemented in the first place. Did you not NCT it because you knew it wouldn't pass and it would cost you to get it fixed? 14 months is taking the pee pee, and if there is a contender for getting done it would probably be you. Maybe the guard realised this, it would explain why he is trying to do you for the NCT.

Wishbone Ash

NP14 wrote: »

I think he wants to summons me, the f**ker

You commited Road Traffic offences yet you refer to the Garda who aprehended you as a "f**ker"! He is doing his job and is funded by those of us who pay our way in society.

It's times like this that we need a huge 'Roll Eyes' icon!

greglo23

go to your local NCT centre and tell them your problem. in most cases the guys will help you out if your willing to let the car with them for the day. if someone does'nt show up for their test they will fill the empty slot with your car. worth a try in any case.

oriain

I have to agree. You've been driving a car which the law states is not road worthy for over a year. So you had no tax and no NCT. The Garda is doing what we, the tax payers, pay him for. I'd be a lot more annoyed if he let you off tbh. How you managed to get away with it that long is amazing, I've seen people get caught without it for as little as 2 months. IMO you deserved to get caught for the NCT but in saying that, I can understand that this is a p***er of a situation to be in so close before you leave.

I honestly don't know what the situation would be if you sold/scrapped it as you've already been caught for it. If I were you I would probably ask the citizens advice bureau although not sure if this would fall under it's remit. I'm sure theres an advice bureau out there somewhere that can deal with issues like this without paying solicitor fees.

XJR

I'm not aware of there being any sanction for not having a current NCT cert. Does anyone know different?

NP14

Thanks craichoe, greglo23 and Stephen,
Appreciate the thoughts, opinions and help.

No the car is perfectly roadworthy, it's a 97, the reason I say I might scrap it is
that noone wants cars this old anymore, which is more an image thing than a safety thing IMO. So why not get a few bob for it?. Scrap now or scrap later seems the options.That was the reasoning.

Anyway a diesel will be my next purchase as the rationing of petrol will be much worse than the rationing on diesel.

NP14

[QUOTE= I can understand that this is a p***er of a situation to be in so close before you leave.

I honestly don't know what the situation would be if you sold/scrapped it as you've already been caught for it. If I were you I would probably ask the citizens advice bureau although not sure if this would fall under it's remit. I'm sure theres an advice bureau out there somewhere that can deal with issues like this without paying solicitor fees.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

ircoha

oriain wrote: »

I have to agree. You've been driving a car which the law states is not road worthy for over a year.

Where does it say that once the NCT cert expires that the car is not roadworthy?

The OP's attitude towards the guard who is doing his job is simply deplorable.

NP14

It was nothing to do with my attitude. I'm always nice to Gardai as I realise that they are just doing their job, and I know it's not the nicest job to be doing. I was totally respectful and subjugated myself to his authority.



^^^^^^^

please read the thread.

Boggles

ircoha wrote: »

Where does it say that once the NCT cert expires that the car is not roadworthy?

It doesn't, but it is up to the owner to prove that their car is roadworthy.

Scootay

NP14 wrote: »

I speculate that it may be something to do with orders to enforce measures that will increase the tax take. (We'll see a lot more of this in the months and years ahead IMHO.

I find keeping my documentation up to date and staying within the law keeps me immune from such things. It's a policy I happily recommend to anyone who wants to avoid paying fines.

Boggles

NP14 wrote: »

Thanks craichoe, greglo23 and Stephen,
Appreciate the thoughts, opinions and help.

No the car is perfectly roadworthy, it's a 97, the reason I say I might scrap it is
that noone wants cars this old anymore, which is more an image thing than a safety thing IMO. So why not get a few bob for it?. Scrap now or scrap later seems the options.That was the reasoning.

Anyway a diesel will be my next purchase as the rationing of petrol will be much worse than the rationing on diesel.

Would you get more for scraping it than selling it? Or is it just handier to squash it?

Bendihorse

Iv got a 04 Car, newly registered in the state in about October last year... Its been taxed and everything ok, but i haven't been called for NCT. Do i wait for a letter or what happens?

NP14

Scootay,

You are right of course. The point of the thread was to seek out possible options from where I stand now.

Boggles

Bendihorse wrote: »

Iv got a 04 Car, newly registered in the state in about October last year... Its been taxed and everything ok, but i haven't been called for NCT. Do i wait for a letter or what happens?

4. How do I know when my car is due to be tested?
All cars should be tested before the anniversary date of first registration of the car in the country of origin. There is no link with motor tax or insurance expiry date.

PLEASE NOTE: NCTS can issue your certificate up to six months early for a first time NCT and three months early for subsequent NCT tests. In other words, if your car was first registered in July and it is due for its first NCT, you can have it tested up to 6 months early in January and your certificate will still expire on the anniversary of registration 2 years later. Your certificate is then valid for 2 years and 6 months.


<back to top>



5. Are any cars exempt from the NCT?
All cars taxed as vintage and cars permanently based on Islands not connected to mainland by road will not have to be tested.
<back to top>



6. Will I be notified when my test is due?
NCTS will contact owners of eligible motor vehicles (based on official vehicle registration records) in advance of the anniversary date of first registration of your car. You will be offered a provisional appointment for the test that must either be confirmed or rearranged by using our on-line booking service or calling our LoCall booking number. If you do not hear from NCTS and think your car may be eligible for the NCT, then please phone us on 1890 412 413 or you can check our on-line service by simply typing in your car registration number. Owners of cars that have been off the road or have not been taxed for over 3 months will not be notified and it will be necessary for the owner to contact NCTS directly themselves.

PLEASE NOTE: NCTS can issue your certificate up to six months early for a first time NCT and three months early for subsequent NCT tests. In other words, if your car was first registered in July and it is due for its first NCT, you can have it tested up to 6 months early in January and your certificate will still expire on the anniversary of registration 2 years later. Your certificate is then valid for 2 years and 6 months. <back to top>

NP14

Boggles wrote: »

Would you get more for scraping it than selling it? Or is it just handier to squash it?

I just think that there are so many newer cars in Ireland now that people just don't want older cars like they used to, so I was thinking scrappage it just the simple thing to do.

I know someone who has been trying to sell a very nice 02 Ka for nearly a year, it's not overpriced, in great condition (much loved), and in that time only one person has phoned up about it, and they did not shoe up. It's a sign of the times I reckon.

faceman

Bendihorse wrote: »

Iv got a 04 Car, newly registered in the state in about October last year... Its been taxed and everything ok, but i haven't been called for NCT. Do i wait for a letter or what happens?

Im afraid you will need to contact them yourself.

OP, altho i have issues with the NCT shenidigans myself, 14 months is taking the mickey. I dont see why most of us have to pay with it while the limited few dont and then moan about it when they get stopped.

in saying that if you produce you letter of appointment and he takes you to court it will be down to the judge on the day.

Boggles

faceman wrote: »

Im afraid you will need to contact them yourself.

"6. Will I be notified when my test is due?
NCTS will contact owners of eligible motor vehicles (based on official vehicle registration records) in advance of the anniversary date of first registration of your car"

From my reading of it, he will be contacted before next October, am I right?

NP14

Cheers faceman.

craichoe

NP14,

How about you go abroad, exchange your license, come back for the court date. Take the fine and points aren't really an issue then.

NP14

Going to Asia, so the ticket back to go to court will be a grand.:(

cc

i suspect if the nct was out by 14 days rather than 14 months the guard would of been a lot nicer, 14 months driving about without an nct is pretty bad, can't justify that really

NP14

cc wrote: »

i suspect if the nct was out by 14 days rather than 14 months the guard would of been a lot nicer, 14 months driving about without an nct is pretty bad, can't justify that really

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

But the thing that's interesting about it is the inconsistency about it. It's either
a) a very serious offence as some have suggested, or not such a big deal.

I have been stopped twice in the past 6 months and it was not even mentioned in any way at all.

That's the thing here. He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

javaboy

Boggles wrote: »

"6. Will I be notified when my test is due?
NCTS will contact owners of eligible motor vehicles (based on official vehicle registration records) in advance of the anniversary date of first registration of your car"

From my reading of it, he will be contacted before next October, am I right?

That's how it's supposed to work but you should keep an eye on it yourself. I was never contacted about my NCT and by the time I'd arranged it myself, I couldn't get a test date until about a week after expiry. I know someone else who was never contacted either so it's worth keeping an eye on.

seamus

Basically your tax was out of date by nearly a month, your NCT had been gone for more than a year, so the alarm bells went off - "This guy doesn't give a ****". So he asked you to produce.

If you'd had an NCT or valid tax, you probably would have been fine. My NCT has been out since the end of January (test booked for the end of March before the PC brigade give out ). I delayed because I had more important things to do in my spare time this month. I've gone through 3 checkpoints since it expired and no-one has said a thing. Probably because I have tax & insurance. Or maybe because it's only out by a month.

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

What gives you that impression? Road deaths are proportionately (in terms of no. of cars and accidents/mile) lower than they've ever been before.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

Have you checked with every test centre in the country? If you try to book online you can check against different NCT centres.

Chances are, you'll show tax and no NCT and you may get a summons. When you go in front of a judge, you'll show that you're taxed and he'll strike it out. Net result = your time is wasted and you'll remember to tax and NCT your car next time. I think that's worth it.

TwoShedsJackson

NP14 wrote: »

I take your point, but what baffles me is this, if it is such a safety issue, how com road deaths have been increasing in recent years, not declining as you might think with intro the NCT.

Not saying it's neccesarily anything to do with the intro of the NCT but road deaths have been declining generally since 1998, with the exception of a spike in 2005, according to the RSA's official report.

You might think the guard is being over-official what with being fresh out of Templemore etc. but you knew you could be brought up over this and were presumably relying on the 'ah sure I've been stopped twice already and nothing was said so nothing will ever be said' approach.

TheNog

NP14 wrote: »

But the thing that's interesting about it is the inconsistency about it. It's either
a) a very serious offence as some have suggested, or not such a big deal.

In court you will get a fine for no NCT.

NP14 wrote: »

I have been stopped twice in the past 6 months and it was not even mentioned in any way at all.

Guards have differing opinions on the NCT. Some support it, others don't. Same as the general public.

NP14 wrote: »

That's the thing here. He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.

I'd have no problem paying fines etc, but it's this issue of going from non appliance of the law on one hand, to the
insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

He made a lawful demand of you to produce your NCT cert within 10 days. That is written in law. It is only impossible to do because a) the nct is booked up for weeks and b) you have been driving with an expired nct disc for 14 months.

however the garda should not summons you for no tax if it is out of date for 14 days only. This will be struck out in court by the judge.

unfortunately you cannot blame the garda for trying to do his job.

Wishbone Ash

NP14 wrote: »

He has asked me to do something which is impossible (within 10 days), and say if I don't
get it done in that time he'll summons me.....
.......insistance that it must be complied with in an impossibly (according to the NCT people) short time.

Request a cancellation slot and inform them that you are available at short notice. I telephoned for an appointment recently and I was offered the next day.

javaboy wrote: »

That's how it's supposed to work but you should keep an eye on it yourself. I was never contacted about my NCT and by the time I'd arranged it myself, I couldn't get a test date until about a week after expiry. I know someone else who was never contacted either so it's worth keeping an eye on.

The letter is sent out as a courtesy only. They have no legal obligation to do so. The registered owner of the vehicle is responsible for ensuring that it has a valid NCT Certificate.

seamus wrote: »

Road deaths are proportionately (in terms of no. of cars and accidents/mile) lower than they've ever been before

Yes, for example, the road deaths in the 1960s were way higher is proportion to the number of vehicles on the road.

TheNog wrote: »

Guards have differing opinions on the NCT. Some support it, others don't. Same as the general public

You shouldn't compare the Garda with the general public. The Gardai are entitled to have private opinions but they should not allow those opinions to influence the application of their statutory duties.

Johnny Utah

The nct is a pure joke- just another stealth tax for the irish motorist.


I've been driving for 5 years without any nct, and it has never been mentioned.


I wonder if this same guard has summoned any eastern european drivers to court for vrt?

Marcus.Aurelius

NP14 wrote: »

Going to Asia, so the ticket back to go to court will be a grand.:(

Not wanting to advocate anything illegal, but once you leave the country for Asia you cannot be brought back for a court appearance. If you do not show up in court, you may be tried in absentia, which will not matter as regards your license from an international viewpoint, as points are not currently issued for no NCT.

Also, if the judge decides to issue a bench warrant for your arrest, it is not enforceable abroad, and an international arrest warrant will not be issued for something so trivial. Coming home could present an issue if your license is checked for another offence.

Another option is to plead your case (nicely!!!) with the Garda (in the presence of the sergeant in charge) and perhaps either the garda will take pity or the sgt will clip him on the ear (verbally) and leave you alone.

seamus

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I wonder if this same guard has summoned any eastern european drivers to court for vrt?

Wouldn't surprise me. Hit a checkpoint on the outer ring road in Clondalkin last week and they had a car transporter there which they were clearly using to take vehicles. At least two UK regs and one odd one (don't know the eastern european ones) were already on the truck and they were chatting to a UK reg driver.

Johnny Utah

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.



In relation to nct, it seems (from previous threads here) that the nct is now being enforced, mostly by young guards fresh out of templemore, whereas in the past it was overlooked if you had tax + insurance.

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

craichoe

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.



In relation to nct, it seems (from previous threads here) that the nct is now being enforced, mostly by young guards fresh out of templemore, whereas in the past it was overlooked if you had tax + insurance.

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

The reason is simple, theres lots of Irish people with an Irish address that own a UK registered car with UK plates. They are liable for VRT, however if you have a UK address and not registered in Ireland then your not.

Same for all the cars in Europe.

They target UK reg cars because their the most common.

Johnny Utah

But what about EU citizens living full-time in Ireland but driving cars which were originally registered in Poland for example?

javaboy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

If they are coming down strict on the nct, then it is very hard to reconcile this with other more serious offences (no vrt/tax) which are still overlooked, particularly in rural areas.

I wouldn't consider no VRT/tax as more serious offences than no NCT. Regardless of what you might think of the NCT, it does have some element of safety involved. A banger with no brakes can be fully paid up for NCT and tax but won't pass the NCT. So which is the worse offence?

People complain here all the time about the Guards acting as tax collectors and now the younger Templemore graduates start enforcing something which is about safety (the NCT) for once and there's more complaining.

seamus

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No, the point is that there are thousands of east european cars in ireland at the moment with no tax, no vrt, and definitely no nct. I know that guards have been picking up uk vrt dodgers, but they seem to leave the eastern european cars alone for some reason.

Well, you see they need a certain amount of evidene to take the vehicle on the side of the road.

If they stop a UK reg car, chances are the driver will have a heavy Irish accent and when asked to show his licence, will show an Irish driving licence with an Irish address. Since it's an offence for any Irish resident to drive a vehicle in Ireland without VRT paid on it, the Garda is well in his rights to take the car.

If they stop an eastern european car, they'll get an eastern european man/woman with an eastern european licence & address. Thus, they can't prove whether or not VRT is due.

They would also find it impossible to enforce any requirement to produce details at a Garda station. Until we log all foreign vehicles and track them, resident foreign drivers on foreign licences can't really be stopped and brought to book because we can't prove that they're resident foreigners.

Johnny Utah

Of course, if the Irish driver carried proof of a Ni address, then they couldn't seize the car.

On the other hand, I've seen the same East European cars driving around a particular area for a good while. If the guards were serious about vrt, why don't they monitor these cars, attach them to an address, and prosecute them for the offences mentioned. These people are working in Ireland for a couple of years- they're not tourists just here on summer holidays.

Re foreign driving licences: that's just another vexcuse to drive like an ass on our roads as they're immune from penalty points.

Guy:Incognito

It' s funny how no one seems to have a problem with the MOT or any other car teast all the European countries have, but instead ignore that they exist and rant about an "extra Irsih tax".

rambler924

Bendihorse wrote: »

Iv got a 04 Car, newly registered in the state in about October last year... Its been taxed and everything ok, but i haven't been called for NCT. Do i wait for a letter or what happens?

The information data systems used by the VRT, Car Tax and NCT are not interlinked, so if you have not brought your registration document to your local NCT centre for them to input it onto their system you will never get an appointment letter. You usually get an appointment very quickly and sometimes you will be given it while they are putting it on the system for you.