Where eagles dare

ShowAndGo

alan123 wrote: »

Sure we all know farmers, we all depend on them for hunting and some of my best pals are farmers... but... they are always complaining. Its not a viable income in Ireland any more, produce can be sourced much cheaper from elsewhere. Thats not a slight on the Irish farmer its simply fact, labour, feed, giant retail chains, etc all make it impossible to earn a living. Any farmer will tell you he couldnt survive without the subs etc.

I am not too sure if I agree with you Alan, farming in Ireland definitely has its place. Maybe, what farmers need to do is to educate the public and market their produce better.

People seem to be obsessed with buying cheap food for some reason…they’d spend a fortune on the latest designer jeans but skimp when it comes to buying quality food that they are going to eat.

Irish farmers can’t compete on price…but they can when it comes to quality. They need to change peoples way of think so that they can see the value in the food that they produce compared to the cheap imports. We have been hoodwinked by the big supermarkets in to thinking that cheap is best. The only way they can get the cheap price is to reduce the quality and we think we are getting a great deal.

I am prepared to pay extra for good quality fresh food. People moan that they can’t afford it but if took all the over priced, processed crap out of their shopping trolley they’d have a lot more money in their pockets.

Banjax

People farm because they want to, many of the smaller famers would from a pure business point of view be better off selling the 80 acres to a bigger concern and finding a job doing something else.

Instead, many sell of the dairy herd and change to dry cattle, thereby allowing them to get a day job either full or part-time.
I know there is a lot of guff about diversification, open farms, agri tourism etc, but the way people sue the hole off you in this country for tripping over a stone, the EHS getting involved, and the rest of it, many are loathe to consider such an undertaking.

And, if business was business, no farmer would allow anyone on their land for recreational hunting, and farms would consist of 200+ acre praireland.

IRLConor

ShowAndGo wrote: »

I am prepared to pay extra for good quality fresh food.

+1

Particularly for meat. I shudder to think of the s*** that goes into some of the cheap meat you see in the supermarkets.

Farmers can't compete on price alone the same way as my company can't compete on price alone as a software developer. There are millions in India and China (and plenty of cowboy operations here) who can undercut our prices easily so we have to compete on quality (and for American customers: closer time zones and the fact we speak good English). True, it's a harder sell to the customer but it is more rewarding.

alan123

Ok. thats why I mentioned organic food. But when it comes to Argentinian beef and Irish beef for example, people dont care. We all saw Hugh Fernesly and Jamie Oliver trying to convince people free range chicken is better. When it comes to the crunch people want value for money. When you look in the cabinet at the butcher you see a leg of lamb. Very few people care to ask where it came from.

Dont a lot of people here internet shop to the states for cammo, even Austrailia for Lightforce gear? Why arent you supporting Irish concerns? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!!!!!!

tiny-nioclas

i suppose its the same for fishermen and the massive seal problem, i was a fisherman for 4 years and come from a fishing background and for that four years i probably lost 40% of my income to seal damage to nets and gear and also the seals taking the fish out of gill nets drift nets etc,so i had to give it up i wasnt earning a living mainly because of the damage the seal population is doing to the fishing industry,but we never hear about it in the papers or news, there is actually thousands of seals there,i cant understand why they cant be culled, its bull, farmers can get badgers deer foxes etc culled while fishermen get nothing but quota cuts fines etc. so were on the same level here i think.

and before anone assaults me i wasnt fishing one of those massivly huge boats that rape the ocean bottom and kill all the young fish and move on....lol.

NoNameRanger

By JohnGalway

There are people in my local area, who would like nothing more than to see all us farmers pushed out so they could frollick with the butterflies in a much expanded Connemara National Park. At least people were given the choice long ago of to hell or Connacht, seems that's gone too.

So over grazing is not a problem in the West of Ireland then is it?
When headage payments were about, farmers seemed to think that they could just keep lashing sheep onto the mountain and everything would be fine, the more sheep the more money you got. Absoultely destroyed the Mountains in Galway and Mayo. Stripped everybit of vegetation there was from these wild lands and turned them into mountains of sludge and rock. Almost wiped out the Grouse! European court is actually fineing our government for allowing this to happen.

And when they are told to stop because they are destroying the environment they need to be paid to put less sheep on the mountain.
Modern farming has destroyed this country, intensified farming methods have wiped out many species and has more on the brink.

We are down to a handful of Grey Partridge left breeding in the wild and they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the efforts of conservationists.
Corncrake is nearly gone only a few holding on where farmers are being paid to manage the land in a tradional way.
The Buzzard was wiped out by strychnine laid by farmers and only when it was banned did they make a return.
I could go on listing species. I could write a book on it.:rolleyes:

The one that interests people most here is most likely the pheasant. Well why don't the pheasants do as well in the wild as they used to 30+years ago?
The biggie is sillage harvesting. Superfast machines, cutting throughout the night, 2-3 cuts per year. No hope for nesting birds.:mad:
So why don't they do as well in the tillage anymore? Spraying pesticides kills all the insect life that young chicks need and it is a total monoculture with no weeds that the birds also need. More and more hedgerow is being destroyed every year, a pheasant or partridge won't find much cover under an electric fence.

And you know the thing that pisses me off the most is the hat tipping by hunters to the farmers and thanks for letting us hunt on your land, instead saying it as it is, jaysus yer wreackin the place, where are all the ditches gone? NARGC have a go at every Government organisation and Non- Government organisation but the ones they never touch are the farmers.

Farmers may own the vast majority of the land but it doesn't mean they can do what they like with it, this country and its wildlife belongs to the people of this country and farmers need to cop on to this and stop being so selfish, you only have the land on loan.

Now JohnGalway i expect you or some of your fans will have a cut at me,:D but as far as i'm concerned you are not a hunter, you are simply a farmer protecting his sheep and you haven't been at it long by all accounts.;) Nothing wrong with that! I was also a farmer(family farm) and i do the same around lambing time. I am a member of the IFA. But i'm also a hunter and a conservationist. Farmers attitudes to wildlife need to change, it's not all about you ya know!:eek:
Go for a frolick with a butterfly in a National Park you might even enjoy it.:D
I speak my mind and say what i believe to be true. And that was my rant!:D;)

Mac Tire

Just to get kinda back on track, i think i'm going to sell up and get me one of these!!!

http://www.yirticikuslar.de/

johngalway

IRLConor,
lol I was actually going to mention wolves in my last post and I agree with you that they'll get reintroduced eventually as well. More bad news but since that just affects farmers who gives a toss eh?

Hi Mellor,
what I object mostly to is the language and mentality directed against farmers. We, and when I say we I mean those who were in the business before me, had to work miracles to negotiate what we're getting now. And all of that is constantly under attack both by our own Government and the EU, even after contracts which are legal documents are signed. But it's fine for other sectors to complain about one condition or another, then forget about it after they recieve a pay rise. The galling bit is when I hear things like ah sure it's only a few lambs. I don't raise my stock to be eaten by predators, of course I realise they need to eat, but like I say I was against reintroduction from word one. I'm sure some here realise that more than money and time go into rearing livestock, care goes into it as well, working away all year and being proud of what you have in the end of it rather than a field full of bodies by a rogue fox or whatever.

Rovi,
I agree 100% with all of your post above, well said

Alan123,
ShowAndGo, Banjax and IRLConor have answered you much better than I could. As for buying lamps from Australia, I don't know why you didn't just say that was me. The difference being that I dislike being ripped off for something here which I can get of equal quality elsewhere, and I'm not planning on eating my Lightforce lamp so it's very different from food.

tiny-nioclas,
Before this came up I was going to post a question about seals, as I'd seen NoNameRanger mention seals I think as protected in another thread. I don't fish but my dad, uncle (now deceased) and a friend of theirs used to run a small inshore fishing boat. Local to me there are a couple of bays salmon use to get up into a river, when they start coming in it's scary to see the amount of seals who camp out at the narrow entrance to one bay in particular. But, who got balmed, not the seals, the one and two man currach operations. Just another way people in rural areas in general are treated, now even the lifboat radio with Valentia and Malin head (I think) radio being relocated to an urban area :rolleyes:

NoNameRanger,
I don't know why you'd think I'd have a cut at you? I don't know you or where you operate in the country. There has been damage done to commonages by greedy individuals, just as you don't consider me a hunter (you're entitled to your opinion even though you don't know me) I don't consider them farmers and anyone who knows me knows that. But, again, that illustrates the mentality I'm talking about, the big brush that's brought out to tar all farmers. Or hunters by anti's, and no, that's not a cut at you either. When I hear these arguments and wildlife tacked on at the end, it's amusing to me how the increase in ariel vermin numbers don't get mentioned as a contributy factor either. Again, it's all the farmers. I'll not go frolick with the butterflys in the Park, thanks for the invite, as I know the kind of people who run it. I won't either get into what I know about those people as DeVore will, rightly come down on me like a ton of bricks for saying it (I'd also have to refer to past legal cases). But, I have said certain things to Park officials openly at public meetings not in a corner of a pub, which would be libelous if untrue, and I'll tell you this, I've never been sued because I can prove what I know instead of guessing

Anyway in conclusion I'll again refer to Sparks brilliant cartoon, I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. I'm just saying my piece as I see it, everyone is always right on the internet

NoNameRanger

johngalway wrote: »

NoNameRanger,
I don't consider them farmers and anyone who knows me knows that. But, again, that illustrates the mentality I'm talking about, the big brush that's brought out to tar all farmers. Or hunters by anti's, and no, that's not a cut at you either. When I hear these arguments and wildlife tacked on at the end, it's amusing to me how the increase in ariel vermin numbers don't get mentioned as a contributy factor either. Again, it's all the farmers. I'll not go frolick with the butterflys in the Park, thanks for the invite, as I know the kind of people who run it. I won't either get into what I know about those people as DeVore will, rightly come down on me like a ton of bricks for saying it (I'd also have to refer to past legal cases). But, I have said certain things to Park officials openly at public meetings not in a corner of a pub, which would be libelous if untrue, and I'll tell you this, I've never been sued because I can prove what I know instead of guessing

Anyway in conclusion I'll again refer to Sparks brilliant cartoon, I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. I'm just saying my piece as I see it, everyone is always right on the internet

I'm not near you but know that part of the country well, know the officals you refer to also and there are some real gems there and i don't doubt what you say.

I'm usually the first to start with don't tar all with the one brush debate. But in this case i'd be tarring myself and i know i'm not a bad farmer, so therefore it would follow that not all farmers are bad. I do know some great farmers but i know alot more bad ones i'm sorry to say!

So if everybody is always right then we're sorted i suppose.:D

alan123

johngalway wrote: »

Alan123,
ShowAndGo, Banjax and IRLConor have answered you much better than I could. As for buying lamps from Australia, I don't know why you didn't just say that was me. The difference being that I dislike being ripped off for something here which I can get of equal quality elsewhere, and I'm not planning on eating my Lightforce lamp so it's very different from food.

I actually didnt realise it was you but thanks because I found the site and Im buying one €89!!! Furthermore, how much land do you have, whats on it and are we all invited to come shoot on it, just like the Germans and Brits playing football on New Years Day!

As for you Showandgo... why is it always the ones you love the most that hurt you the most?! Quality meat... I thought that was camel you served up to us at your wedding. Et tu Brutus??

(new shooting partner required please pm a cv!)

johngalway

NoNameRanger wrote: »

So if everybody is always right then we're sorted i suppose.:D

Lol, we are No point in falling all over ourselves to fall out about it

johngalway

alan123 wrote: »

I actually didnt realise it was you but thanks because I found the site and Im buying one €89!!! Furthermore, how much land do you have, whats on it and are we all invited to come shoot on it, just like the Germans and Brits playing football on New Years Day!

Good man, they all come from Australia anyway, using that auction site cuts out the middle men. I do like to buy and support Irish, since I'm a producer of Irish items, but I dislike being anyones fool. It's a bit like the price I get for a butcher quality lamb versus the price that's charged for that same lamb once it's offered for sale to the consumer. We all get screwed, just in different ways.

I don't have a big farm myself, and I'm curtailed from expanding sheep numbers due the overgrazing that NoNameRanger has referred to. I volentarily reduced sheep numbers on the commonage that was damaged off my own bat, told nor ordered by anyone. Yet, thanks to officialdom I'm still unable to increase my sheep numbers on seriously undergrazed commonage in a different area, again, that big brush. So I work three jobs at the moment

What's on my land, well hares, rabbit, pigeon, snipe, woodcock, phesant, duck, as well as otters, some type of hawk(?), mink, badgers, foxes, ravens, the usual suspects on the vermin list and I'm sure a few others I don't know about. Oh, and SHEEP All in all plenty of wildlife, and there does seem to be more songbirds about compared to other years.

If I invite ye all there'll be nothing left to conserve :D I don't shoot game myself, vermin mostly.

Rovi

johngalway wrote: »

NoNameRanger wrote: »

So if everybody is always right then we're sorted i suppose.:D

Lol, we are No point in falling all over ourselves to fall out about it

Jeeez guys, get a room!

IRLConor

johngalway wrote: »

IRLConor,
lol I was actually going to mention wolves in my last post and I agree with you that they'll get reintroduced eventually as well. More bad news but since that just affects farmers who gives a toss eh?

I don't know if there's anywhere in Ireland big enough to support wolves. I can't find any figures on a quick search but if I remember correctly they need a large area to roam over and I don't think there'd be a big enough sparsely populated area to introduce them into.

Maybe instead of just protesting the (re)introduction of wild predators farmers could press for conservation groups to fund the compensation of farmers for livestock losses themselves. It has worked in the US apparently.

alan123

johngalway wrote: »

alan123 wrote: »

What's on my land, well hares, rabbit, pigeon, snipe, woodcock, phesant, duck, as well as otters, some type of hawk(?), mink, badgers, foxes, ravens, the usual suspects on the vermin list and I'm sure a few others I don't know about. Oh, and SHEEP All in all plenty of wildlife, and there does seem to be more songbirds about compared to other years.

If I invite ye all there'll be nothing left to conserve :D I don't shoot game myself, vermin mostly.

I can read between the lines (wink, wink), you have a song bird problem. Waking you up in the morning, crapping on the clothes line.... we can take care of song birds, I 'll have to blow the dust off the ol wren gun and Im a bit rusty on how much lead a blue tit need but if the worst comes to worst we can Alphachlorose some sunflower seeds!!!!!!!!

tiny-nioclas

johngalway wrote: »

tiny-nioclas,
Before this came up I was going to post a question about seals, as I'd seen NoNameRanger mention seals I think as protected in another thread. I don't fish but my dad, uncle (now deceased) and a friend of theirs used to run a small inshore fishing boat. Local to me there are a couple of bays salmon use to get up into a river, when they start coming in it's scary to see the amount of seals who camp out at the narrow entrance to one bay in particular. But, who got balmed, not the seals, the one and two man currach operations. Just another way people in rural areas in general are treated, now even the lifboat radio with Valentia and Malin head (I think) radio being relocated to an urban area :rolleyes:

exactly, and in canada the salmon population was going downhill savagely a few years ago too, everyone blamed the fishermen again as usual, but a seal cull is now taken place very year, and now the salmon industry is booming, had the fools here realised this in ireland we wouldnt have a way of living taken away from us like last year from the drift netting ban, it was like telling farmers they could no longer milk their cattle, and just give them all a few grand to shut them up.:mad: ok rant over.....

tiny-nioclas

was there two eagles more killed? i heard there was?