Now I need to bring a calculator to the gym

Cookie_Monster

So I changed to my new routine yesterday. the old one is posted here somewhere but couldn't find it within 10 seconds:)

Looks like its going to be a lot more painful and difficult than the previous one but no pain no gain...

12 exercises, 9 of which require a bit of maths to setup. have to find my max liftable weight. Basically entailed lifting a wieght for as many reps as possible, recover and do with a heavier weight. Example:

Bicep curls - 10kg wieght 22 reps.
Bicep curls - 14kg wieght 5 reps.
then stick that into this: (y-y1)=m(x-x1) giving (22-5)=m(10-14)
leaves m=-4.25

Then for one rep use it again (22-1)=-4.25(10-x)
Where x is max weight = ~15 *.45 = 7kg, starting weight.
Then 2x12 sets and 3rd is as many as possible. If more than 12, i.e 14 then use this: (14-12)/2=1, 1kg extra weight next time and so on and so on.

3 days a week

Weights (Can't remember exact order)
1) Chest press free weights
2) Bicep curl
3) Squats
4) Situp on ball (not done using above just 3x15 sets)
5) Fly pecs
6) Shoulder press free weights
7) Leg press
8) Abs - leg raises
9) Lat pulldown
10) Leg extension
11) Deadlift
12) Situp twists

Cardio

Day 1) Rower 15-20 mins
Day 2) X trainer 20 mins random program
Day 3) treadmill 20 mins fast walk, varying elevation (Can't run on treadmills, hurts my knees)

Brain Work out - various maths equations required:D

Quite a bit different from anything I've done before!

Opinions/Comments?

aye

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

12 exercises, 9 of which require a bit of maths to setup. have to find my max liftable weight. Basically entailed lifting a wieght for as many reps as possible, recover and do with a heavier weight. Example:

Bicep curls - 10kg wieght 22 reps.
Bicep curls - 14kg wieght 5 reps.
then stick that into this: (y-y1)=m(x-x1) giving (22-5)=m(10-14)
leaves m=-4.25

Then for one rep use it again (22-1)=-4.25(10-x)
Where x is max weight = ~15 *.45 = 7kg, starting weight.
Then 2x12 sets and 3rd is as many as possible. If more than 12, i.e 14 then use this: (14-12)/2=1, 1kg extra weight next time and so on and so on.

Brain Work out - various maths equations required:D

you could always go on the general assumption that the weight on your 10 rep max is around 75% the weight of your 1 rep max.

Colm_OReilly

who designed this!?

justsomebloke

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

who designed this!?

agreed

g'em

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

12 exercises, 9 of which require a bit of maths to setup. have to find my max liftable weight. Basically entailed lifting a wieght for as many reps as possible, recover and do with a heavier weight. Example:

Bicep curls - 10kg wieght 22 reps.
Bicep curls - 14kg wieght 5 reps.
then stick that into this: (y-y1)=m(x-x1) giving (22-5)=m(10-14)
leaves m=-4.25

Huh?

What happened to incresing the weight of a lift until you could do no more than 1 rep of it, hence the 1 Rep Max nomenclature?

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Then for one rep use it again (22-1)=-4.25(10-x)
Where x is max weight = ~15 *.45 = 7kg, starting weight.
Then 2x12 sets and 3rd is as many as possible. If more than 12, i.e 14 then use this: (14-12)/2=1, 1kg extra weight next time and so on and so on.

Bolloxology gives me migraines. I'm going to need a lie down after that.

Cookie_Monster wrote:

3 days a week

Weights (Can't remember exact order)
1) Chest press free weights
2) Bicep curl
3) Squats
4) Situp on ball (not done using above just 3x15 sets)
5) Fly pecs
6) Shoulder press free weights
7) Leg press
8) Abs - leg raises
9) Lat pulldown
10) Leg extension
11) Deadlift
12) Situp twists

All that in one session?

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Opinions/Comments?

I'd recommend it as an April Fools' routine.

If you want to get strong, lift heavy stuff, lots of compound lifts, < 6 reps for working sets on primary lifts (1-2 exercises), 8-10 reps for accessory work (2-4 exercies), 3-4 times a week. Eat a lot, rest up.

If you want to lose fat, lift moderately heavy stuff and keep rest times down, 8-12 reps, mixing up compound, isolation and bodyweight work, 3-5 times a week with some GPP thrown in for rehab, prehab and extra cardio. Eat smart, rest up.

And as Colm said, who designed this?!

Roper

That's a pisstake surely?

BossArky

Looks like a variation of the equation of a line --> here

WHIP IT!

g'em wrote: »

If you want to get strong, lift heavy stuff

^^^^^^
What she said...

I always get the distinct impression when I see a gym instructor guiding a first-timer through a new routine that they're simply trying to use as many of the shiny machines as possible - hence justifying the stupid contraption's existence!

Bench, Squat and Deadlift and lift heavy dumbells... in my (admittedly limited experience) that's the simple and most effective way to go...

Cookie_Monster

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

who designed this!?

My gym instructor...

BossArky wrote: »

Looks like a variation of the equation of a line

Yeah it is. Easier than drawing graphs and the like.

Cookie_Monster

g'em wrote: »

What happened to incresing the weight of a lift until you could do no more than 1 rep of it, hence the 1 Rep Max nomenclature?

Its the same thing except rather than having to go through loads of weights you use two and work it out.

g'em

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its the same thing except rather than having to go through laods of weights you use two and work it out.

Right. So to figure out how much weight you can lift you're relying on maths rather than... lifting weight?

Can you see the irony in this? I'm not having a go at you at all, but what you're asking is a common occurence for people when they start out - they over-complicate. There's no magic program, magic equation or magic training schedule; it comes down to simple hard graft with simple, effective exercises. Go to the gym and lift heavy stuff and keep lifting progressively heavier weights each week.

If you need a routine to stick to (as most of us do) you'd be doing well to try soemthing like the Starting Strength routine. Although Colm O'Reilly usually advocates it, I won't hold this against the program

Colm_OReilly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm_OReilly
who designed this!?

My gym instructor...

They need to be slapped. As g'em said, lift progressively heavier things.

Now if we really want to argue directly against the formula, is there a stragiht linear graph on max reps? If I plot my 1RM, 3RM, 5RM, 10RM, 20RM all on graph will I get a straight line? Would a novice lifter?

I'm guessing no on both counts, which leads us to believe that the equation (which measures the slope of a straight line) has no bearing on the weight used. If anything, it's a convoluted way of reaching a rough estimate. Something which can be done without the pencil, paper and calculator.

g'em, my sig speaks to your point

Cookie_Monster

I think part of the point of the programme is you start on fairly low weights to get used to it but within 1/2 weeks you are lifting much more than at the start??

When was working it out with instructor worked out 7kg for bicep curl but even doing it that day added another 2kg to it straight away.

I think its not a great way to do it either until the weights are fairly heavy. When it gets to that point it kinda forces you to keep adding small weight increases rather than leveling out.

flaka

OP - maybe you've posted before, but what are you trying to achieve?

Weights - are these free or on machines?
As for the maths - just curious what was the explaination for this approach?
Is this how he does his own workout??

Isn't your max lifting how much you can lift in one rep? 1RM?


Cardio - no complex equations involving % max heart rate? Your man missed out on that!
What about intensity of the Row, Cross and Walk?

Cookie_Monster

flaka wrote: »

OP - maybe you've posted before, but what are you trying to achieve?

Lose weight, gain muscle, increase fitness in broad terms.

flaka wrote: »

Weights - are these free or on machines?
As for the maths - just curious what was the explaination for this approach?
Is this how he does his own workout??

Free except leg press, lat pulldown and leg ext.

flaka wrote: »

Cardio - no complex equations involving % max heart rate? Your man missed out on that!
What about intensity of the Row, Cross and Walk?

High intensity, rower lvl 8/9 of 10, pace 2.10 for 500 m, no heart rate moniter though

Xtrainer lvl 13/14 of 20, speed 9.5kph+, heart rate round 180-190
Walk - dunno yet havent done it yet. Fast walk on steep slope sounds fairly intensive but probly less than the other two

Colm_OReilly

Rowers don't have levels, they're akin to gears. The higher numbers are stiffer gears, generally meaning you'll have a lower stroke rate, the lower numbers are faster gears, generally meaning you'll have a higher stroke rate.

Cookie_Monster

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Rowers don't have levels, they're akin to gears. The higher numbers are stiffer gears, generally meaning you'll have a lower stroke rate, the lower numbers are faster gears, generally meaning you'll have a higher stroke rate.

ok so Gear nine then:D
29-30 strokes a minute

aye

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

S
3 days a week

Weights (Can't remember exact order)
1) Chest press free weights
2) Bicep curl
3) Squats
4) Situp on ball (not done using above just 3x15 sets)
5) Fly pecs
6) Shoulder press free weights
7) Leg press
8) Abs - leg raises
9) Lat pulldown
10) Leg extension
11) Deadlift
12) Situp twists

leg press - quads.
leg extension - quads.
deadlift - quads (primarily).
squat - quads (primarily, unless below parallel, doubt that will happen)

there are more muscles in your legs than the quads.

chest press, no row.
bicep curl, no isolation tricep exercise.
3 situp exercises, not one lower back exercise.


how many sets of each are you meant to do?
where did you get this done?

davyjose

The acronym "JFL" was invented for this thread.
I think this is a perfect example of how people can get caught up in numbers and 1 rep max's and the like, and it actually hinders their workout.

At the end of the day go to the gym 3 or 4 times, by then you should know what you can lift too easily, and what you can't lift. Cover all the bases - do the big 3 (DL, squat and bench) and you'll get better results than adding up sums on a calculator.

Cookie_Monster

aye wrote: »

leg press - quads.
leg extension - quads.
deadlift - quads (primarily).
squat - quads (primarily, unless below parallel, doubt that will happen)
... no row.
3 situp exercises, not one lower back exercise.

The failings of this programme are becoming more and more apparent and thats before even starting it:mad:

aye wrote: »

..no isolation tricep exercise.

Injury related

aye wrote: »

where did you get this done?

Rochestown Lodge gym. Think I will go and chat to my instructor some more about the whole thing.


Thanks for input, I actually thought the programme wasn't too bad, shows what I know.

Malteaser!

aye wrote: »

leg press - quads.
leg extension - quads.
deadlift - quads (primarily).
squat - quads (primarily, unless below parallel, doubt that will happen)

there are more muscles in your legs than the quads.

chest press, no row.
bicep curl, no isolation tricep exercise.
3 situp exercises, not one lower back exercise.


how many sets of each are you meant to do?
where did you get this done?

Deadlifts are primarily a lower back, hamstring and glute exercise. There's VERY little quad involvement. Sure they help break the floor, but they're certainly not a prime mover.

The benching and shoulder pressing with "free weights" should be enough to cover the triceps at this stage. I wouldn't be overly worried about not having an isolation exercise in there.

As already said, the deadlifting should cover the lower back, squatting will help too.

The whole program does look a bit ridiculous and wayyyyy over complicated, but the OP's a beginner and flawed as it is, it's not the type of program that's going to injure due to poor programming

BossArky

Hold on a second. I think I know what happened. The gym instructor obviously got confused when the OP asked for some mat(h)s.

davyjose

BossArky wrote: »

Hold on a second. I think I know what happened. The gym instructor obviously got confused when the OP asked for some mat(h)s.

Lol, I actually think the gym instructor is trying a bit too hard to be a good gym instructor and is just overcomplicating things. Poor lads probably wet behind the ears.
You know what, this thread needs the Hanley touch. Is he still banned? Shame.

aye

Malteaser! wrote: »

Deadlifts are primarily a lower back, hamstring and glute exercise. There's VERY little quad involvement. Sure they help break the floor, but they're certainly not a prime mover.

The benching and shoulder pressing with "free weights" should be enough to cover the triceps at this stage. I wouldn't be overly worried about not having an isolation exercise in there.

As already said, the deadlifting should cover the lower back, squatting will help too.

The whole program does look a bit ridiculous and wayyyyy over complicated, but the OP's a beginner and flawed as it is, it's not the type of program that's going to injure due to poor programming

deadlifts do knee extension, a quad movement. they do hit the hamstrings on the knee flexion phase.

i know the triceps are being hit, no problem there, but there is no need for a bicep isolation without a tricep one. the tricep is the bigger muscle is the upper arm.

davyjose

aye wrote: »

deadlifts do knee extension, a quad movement. they do hit the hamstrings on the knee flexion phase.

Yeah but they aren't quad primarily.

Malteaser!

aye wrote: »

deadlifts do knee extension, a quad movement. they do hit the hamstrings on the knee flexion phase.

i know the triceps are being hit, no problem there, but there is no need for a bicep isolation without a tricep one. the tricep is the bigger muscle is the upper arm.

Like i said, to an EXTENT there is some quad involvement, but if you're doing deadlifts like they're supposed to be done (ie as a pull, not a squat) they are primarily hip extension, and thus hamstring and glutes.

There's no need for bicep isolation? What if he wants bigger biceps?

EDIT: Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg3596sqVGQ. Look at the degree of knee flexion at the start, there is VERY little work being done by the quads to straighten the knee out, they're MUCH close to straight than bent at the start.

Now look at how far the bar travels...

If it's not knee extension causing it, then it MUST be hip extension. Would you not agree?

aye

Malteaser! wrote: »

Like i said, to an EXTENT there is some quad involvement, but if you're doing deadlifts like they're supposed to be done (ie as a pull, not a squat) they are primarily hip extention, and thus hamstring and glutes.

There's no need for bicep isolation? What if he wants bigger biceps?

well that would be a stiff-legged or romanian deadlift.
a full deadlift is a squatting (sitting down) action.

he may want to get bigger biceps, but it may lead to muscle imbalance, that would be the concern.

Cookie_Monster

davyjose wrote: »

Poor lads probably wet behind the ears.

Been in the gym for about 2 years, not exactly "wet behind the ears"

Gone through 4 instructors though due to staff turnover...

Before I just did what I was told (like a good boy:)) and didn't see any huge need to question otherwise but now that I have a little more knowledge and experience hence activities like posting up here to see reaction etc and then go and question instructor.

davyjose

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Been in the gym for about 2 years, not exactly "wet behind the ears"

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you, but to your instructor - I meant he's probably just straight out of gym-instructor university and trying all sorts of mad stuff he learned there.

Malteaser!

aye wrote: »

well that would be a stiff-legged or romanian deadlift.
a full deadlift is a squatting (sitting down) action.

.

Eh, no...that'd be an actual squat you're talking about...

davyjose

Malteaser! wrote: »

Eh, no...that'd be an actual squat you're talking about...

Indeed, this guy is not squatting - if he were, it would be the sh!ttiest technique of all time: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html

Cookie_Monster

davyjose wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you, but to your instructor - I meant he's probably just straight out of gym-instructor university and trying all sorts of mad stuff he learned there.

Oops, She's Polish and to be honest seems to be one of the more competant people there. There was a mass exodus of good staff over the summer to better paid/located gyms and the crowd since just don't seem to be as good.

flaka

OP - I think you should follow the programme she provided. Give it an honest chance. Maybe it will get you to where you want - only one way to find out.

All the maths seems a little strange - but hey you'll learn something about your body and exercise after a few weeks on the programme.

I don't know what sort of results you're expecting or the trainer hinted at but if you've done everything on the programme and its not getting you places think about changing it.

rubadub

I love my maths, but that just seems overly complicated, did actually look like a pisstake, dunno where they derived it from. It will train your mind better than anything else! Save the math for your calorie counting, if anything.

I never do 1RM work. I can estimate it using this
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm

I am interested in it only to see progress compared to other people, like posters here. I have no reason to ever do a 1RM other than to know what it is.

I aim for hypertrophy, most will say do 8-12reps for hypertrophy and that you can do 8 reps at 80% of your max 1RM, and this is the reason they might want to know their 1RM. But a simpler way of knowing what you can lift for 8 reps, is to just lift a weight for reps, if you can do 9 increase it, if you can only do 7reps lower it, simple as that.

aye

Malteaser! wrote: »

Eh, no...that'd be an actual squat you're talking about...

a full deadlift lowers the bar to just above the floor with a bend in the knees.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html

on the lift the knees are extended.

Cookie_Monster

So did it last nite for the first time. As expected all the weights were quite light and for next day have moved up at least 15-20% on all of them.

Its also very long with the 12 different exercises so I think I am going to split it into 2 days with 8 each, adding calf raises, incline rows, lower back exercise on ball and something else, probly a hamstring exercise in some form.

That said it felt much tougher than the last programme and it feels good so once get all the weights & reps sorted out should be ok.

Colm_OReilly

Deadlift vids:

Technical intro by Glassman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBI9qxibTc

Instructional snippets from Mark Rippetoe:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAlignment1.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAlignment2.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAnatomy.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_DeadliftArmPosition.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLStartingAngles.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDeadliftIntro.wmv


World record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNvONtw-94g&feature=related

Now, note how his spine goes into flexion. I'd say it's f*ck!n impossible to do a 1000lb+ DL with perfect form. But, his hips don't drop into a squat.

In that picture, the lifters scapula is behind the bar, so the load is not directly over the centre of gravity or directly suspended from the trunk. I would suggest to you that that is an inefficient way to pull.

Col

aye

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

In that picture, the lifters scapula is behind the bar, so the load is not directly over the centre of gravity or directly suspended from the trunk. I would suggest to you that that is an inefficient way to pull.

Col

i agree with that.
the main point of the picture was to show that both lifts do knee extension, a quad movement.

this is purely based a full deadlift and not a stiff legged or romanian.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Barbell+Deadlift