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Can we create Ireland Offline II for broadband??

  • #2
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭ BarryM


    Hi,

    I was an 'early adopter' in Ireland Offline, I even made a financial contribution!!

    I now feel we need to create a V2 of Ireland Offline specifically to rebut the general impression created by Eamon Ryan/ComReg et al that broadband is widely available, cheap and competitive.... I assume that most if not all the people who drop by here would not agree??

    I am, as I've said elsewhere, willing to participate in any such creation, but my time and geographic availability (I spend a lot of time out of Ireland) would prevent me from being the 'founder' Is there anybody out there who would be willing to get it up and running?

    As I see it the ONLY objective would be to get the broadband situation sorted out such that a) the actual data on who has, who hasn't, who can and who cannot get bb is REAL. b) that The Dept and ComReg and anybody else who purports to be involved in planning bb appreciates the real situation and is committed to sorting it, not talking about it.

    As I understand it the legislation presently in place allows ComReg to require 'the incumbent' (Eircom) to open exchanges and other places to other operators for their equipment. I know that this is spoken of but I also know, from anecdotal and other sources that it is a 'kicking and screaming' activity for Eircom. If we can just get that aspect highlighted and get ComReg to actually apply the law then we will be a long way down the road.

    First we need the data. On a couple of threads on here I've sown the seed of trying to get a data collection exercise started, using the audience on here. I don't know if this is possible through Boards.ie but I have seen the efforts to get a WiFi hotspots map going and something similar with a data set of REAL information behind it would enable us to start putting pressure on where it counts. Even the item on PrimeTime the other night was (by RTE standards) critical of the present data.

    Any takers.....?

    Bye, Barry


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Comments

  • #2


    and to lobby for Shane Ross and his Broadband Bill just published.

    http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/300/read-my-broadband-infrastructure-bill-2008-here/

    I agree with you Barry .

    Its important that some of these country senators know they are being watched very very very closely !


  • #2


    BarryM wrote: »

    I now feel we need to create a V2 of Ireland Offline specifically to rebut the general impression created by Eamon Ryan/ComReg et al that broadband is widely available, cheap and competitive.... I assume that most if not all the people who drop by here would not agree??



    Any takers.....?

    Bye, Barry

    Well I'm still around and willing, I never wanted IoffL to shut down as I feel there is far too much work to be done. Just look at the smugness of Eamonn Lyan when he knows there is no meaningful opposition to his nonsense.

    You can pm me anytime.


  • #2


    Just spotted this on mulley.net, count me in.


  • #2


    Just came across this also on mulley.net. I'm up for it - if even just to highlight the myths and lies that are being disseminated by the various "interested" parties. About time that the facts were presented in a public forum.


  • #2


    The facts are CONTINUALLY presented and dissected in public fora such as this one, its just that there is no lobby group at present .


  • #2


    I'd be happy to provide web/net resources for a group like this, foc of course. I think the IOFFL site is still sitting on one of my servers somewhere. :)

    adam


  • #2


    I believe the IoffL mailing list was disintermediated so the website itself is a useful if out of date resource at this stage ....and a historical record of course.


  • #2


    I'd love to help.

    I've worked in politics before, and have plenty of lobbying/legislative experience.


  • #2


    I will write more here soon but count me in.


  • #2


    Am so sick of bloody politicians talking up this country as a technology hotbed and at the same time not having a clue about the basic infrastructure.


  • #2


    Am so sick of bloody politicians talking up this country as a technology hotbed and at the same time not having a clue about the basic infrastructure.

    Grand, and thanks to the others who responded, seems like we can get going. On a series of private messages I had with a few of you we discussed getting a list going as a start, can you help dahamsta??

    We are looking to get an online survey going to collect real data, spongebob has a contact for a map of exchanges which we can use as a starter and build from. My feeling is that to be credible we need real data, from as wide an audience as we can.

    I copied a message to Damien to find out if IOFL was ever formally disbanded, if it wasn't we can resurrect the process.

    More later, I'll be travelling the next few days - son getting married Sat - but I hope to be back in contact next week.

    Bye, Barry


  • #2


    Hi,

    Thanks to cgarvey we have a temp list here http://url.ie/99q

    If you want to help - and I mean that ;) sign up there.

    Thanks Barry


  • #2


    I read recently (this week) that a group of business folk (ebay etc.) want to start to lobby the government about it. No offense meant but they will get further than IoffL ever could, they have deep pockets. It may not be possible but perhaps try to get in contact with them to support them. Big business lobbies with public support could go along way.

    Odds are I saw the article on breakingnews.ie, rte.ie, siliconrepublic.com or enn.ie


  • #2


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    I read recently (this week) that a group of business folk (ebay etc.) want to start to lobby the government about it. No offense meant but they will get further than IoffL ever could, they have deep pockets. It may not be possible but perhaps try to get in contact with them to support them. Big business lobbies with public support could go along way.

    Odds are I saw the article on breakingnews.ie, rte.ie, siliconrepublic.com or enn.ie

    do you mean this article from the sunday tribune it was in an enn news round up
    http://www.electricnews.net/article/10123912.html

    The paper also says that the Opposition has criticised government plans to roll-out broadband in Ireland using electoral areas. Opposition politicians have accused the government of making a 'political football' of the issue, while companies involved in the bidding process for the plans say such an approach could give rise to legal challenges.

    The Sunday Times reports on new proposals that would compel developers to install high-speed broadband infrastructure in newly-built homes. The measure is part of a draft policy paper on next-generation networks (NGNs) currently being prepared by the Department of Communications.

    The same paper also reports on the formation of a broadband lobby group by some of Ireland's top business figures. Among those involved in the 'informal' group are John McEligott of eBay Ireland and Vivas chief executive Oliver Tattan as well as the heads of bookmaker Paddy Power, prepaid credit card firm 3V, property website Daft.ie and online travel agents Ebookers. They are seeking a meeting with the Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan to demand better broadband services from the Government.


  • #2


    That's the one. You may get no where but if you offered the ground work and had their backing it could be quite a powerful group.


  • #2


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    No offense meant but they will get further than IoffL ever could, they have deep pockets.

    I doubt their deep pockets would be allowed to be used but their influence is more important than their cash anyway. The high brow campaigning done by the Sunday Times and Shane Ross is getting more weight than anything else in a long while and something to consider for Barry's Broadband Group.

    It should be considered thaat someone from this group should work as a liaison with Ross, the Sunday Times and this new business lobby group.


  • #2


    Ireland Offline should not have closed.
    We are still really bottom.


  • #2


    watty wrote: »
    Ireland Offline should not have closed..

    Is that you volunteering to put time in then Watty, you going to join the new group and commit time to it?


  • #2


    I have put down a private members motion on broadband in an attempt to put pressure on the government to make progress on this issue. It will be debated in the Dail tomorrow (Tuesday 26th) and Wednesday (27th) evenings from 7-8.30pm.

    If anybody with an interest in this issue would like to attend the debate I would be more than happy to welcome you, please contact me in my Dail office on 01-6183753.


  • #2


    I have put down a private members motion on broadband in an attempt to put pressure on the government to make progress on this issue. It will be debated in the Dail tomorrow (Tuesday 26th) and Wednesday (27th) evenings from 7-8.30pm.

    If anybody with an interest in this issue would like to attend the debate I would be more than happy to welcome you, please contact me in my Dail office on 01-6183753.

    Well well, this thing seems to be attracting all sorts of people!:)

    Welcome along Simon.

    For anybody wanting the link, it's here.

    Personally I'm very cynical about Irish politics (no offence), and I'm also kind of on the sidelines here (there are some quite active people I would defer to), but I imagine that if you want to meet and speak with some of the very knowledgable people on here, you will be very much welcomed.


  • #2


    I have put down a private members motion on broadband in an attempt to put pressure on the government to make progress on this issue. It will be debated in the Dail tomorrow (Tuesday 26th) and Wednesday (27th) evenings from 7-8.30pm.

    If anybody with an interest in this issue would like to attend the debate I would be more than happy to welcome you, please contact me in my Dail office on 01-6183753.
    Simon, welcome to the boards. With respect to the motion you have put down I'm sure we all believe that it's a welcome step. However, the motion seems to be the 'management summary' of the FG broadband manifesto published recently which had some noted shortcomings. How much of the information and suggestions provided in the bill proposed by Shane Ross have Fine Gael taken on board in addition to feedback on your manifesto?


  • #2


    I have put down a private members motion on broadband in an attempt to put pressure on the government to make progress on this issue. It will be debated in the Dail tomorrow (Tuesday 26th) and Wednesday (27th) evenings from 7-8.30pm.

    Simon.

    The only game in town is Shane Ross and his bill

    It aspires to provide a first world knowledge infrastructure for a first world country .

    The corollary is frankly unthinkable and yes is critically close to reality. eircom is bankrupt, a torn sheet hanging in the winds of the international credit crunch, It can no longer refinance its junk finance, much less invest in anything meaningful. Our regulator is intellectually and morally bankrupt. A paradigm shift is what is needed.

    We will only have one more shot at this before the international knowledge economy passes us by , forever . As a country we have no more credibility as a knowledge economy . We have no more credibility in the ability of our 'technocrats' :( and politicians to deliver .

    Support Shanes bill and do not equivocate in any way about it .

    Announce tomorrow that you and your party will sponsor it in the Dail and will put EXACTLY what Shane wants you to put on the Dáil record .

    If you play petty party politics with this Bill then God help me I will hunt your political ass down :(




  • #2


    Is it Simon or is it Conor leaving that message?


  • #2


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Simon.

    The only game in town is Shane Ross and his bill

    It aspires to provide a first world knowledge infrastructure for a first world country .

    The corollary is frankly unthinkable and yes is critically close to reality. eircom is bankrupt, a torn sheet hanging in the winds of the international credit crunch, It can no longer refinance its junk finance, much less invest in anything meaningful. Our regulator is intellectually and morally bankrupt. A paradigm shift is what is needed.

    We will only have one more shot at this before the international knowledge economy passes us by , forever . As a country we have no more credibility as a knowledge economy . We have no more credibility in the ability of our 'technocrats' :( and politicians to deliver .

    Support Shanes bill and do not equivocate in any way about it .

    Announce tomorrow that you and your party will sponsor it in the Dail and will put EXACTLY what Shane wants you to put on the Dáil record .

    If you play petty party politics with this Bill then God help me I will hunt your political ass down :(




    Very well put Bob. Simon, do us all a favour and listen to the man.


  • #2


    I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is to have Broadband regulated. We have the ridiculous situation in this country that we have a Communications Regulator that does not regulate Broadband, the consequences being that the providers can give us a c*&p service and we have no comeback.

    I had a situation where i took a service some months ago from a provider who shall remain nameless, it was supposed to be a 6mb line. It hit 4mb one day in 3 months rest of the time was less than 1mb, that was if it was actually working. Had to get rid of it eventually. Called Comreg to lodge a complaint to be told "sorry we don't regulate broadband" I was told i could make a complaint of false advertising (they we heavily advertising the service at the time) to the relevant authority.

    I know we are looking for better speeds etc, but thats going to take time putting in new lines etc, regulation could be done quickly at least that way we might get a better service.


  • #2


    I have put down a private members motion on broadband in an attempt to put pressure on the government to make progress on this issue.

    SPEECH LIZ MCMANUS TD

    Labour Party Spokesperson on Communications

    Speaking on the Private Members Motion on Broadband
    Tuesday, 26 February 2008

    BROADBAND PART OF ESSENTIAL INFRASTRUCTURE



    I welcome this Motion. Broadband is now part of the essential infrastructure required of any advanced, successful society. Quite apart from its importance to ensuring our economic future the provision - or lack of - broadband is an indicator of progress across a range of social, community, educational and healthcare development.

    The fact that we are here debating broadband provision in itself is a sorry indicator of a sorry Government record. We pride ourselves in having a successful and advanced economy and yet at the same time the official record is one of a failure to manage the roll out of broadband. At a time of growing economic pressures and with a change of Minister the expectation has been that renewed effort on the part of Government would bring about a sea change. Had it done so we would be here talking about Next Generation Networks and how we can keep ahead of our competitors across Europe and the world. Instead we are trying to catch up while other countries forge ahead of us.

    In 2004 the Government was bragging about Ireland becoming one of the top ten of the OECD States. Today we lie 22nd out of the 30 countries and we are here talking about the most basic broadband provision. Despite recent, increased take-up, Ireland is still floundering near the bottom of the EU broadband league. There is a steady growth in penetration of broadband to 16.4% here but we have still only half of the penetration of Denmark at 34.5% or the Netherlands at 33.9% and the UK has 50% better penetration than we do.

    Two weeks ago on Morning Ireland the Minister for Communications claimed that “in many instances...we’re actually ahead” of Northern Ireland. This is hardly the case. In January 2006, Northern Ireland announced it has achieved 100% broadband penetration. They have a similarly distributed population such as ours, yet they have achieved 100% coverage some time ago. It may be at a low speed but its there for everyone.

    While access to broadband in Ireland is growing albeit belatedly, many other countries are pulling further ahead of us. The issue is not simply about access, it is about the quality of the service provided and its cost. The problem has been articulated clearly by the CEO of Forfas Martin Cronin recently when he said “We continue to lag behind other countries in terms of the range of services available and investment in next generation broadband. Ireland needs to future-proof its telecoms infrastructure so that we can deploy Next Generation Networks in a timely fashion, which will mean far greater bandwidth capacity, more efficient networks, lower costs for operators and a wider range of advanced services for enterprise.”

    He went on to warn about us having a narrow window of opportunity yet there is no sense of urgency coming from the Minister in response. Setting up yet another consultative body, in this case an International Advisory Forum is hardly the act of a can-do Minister focussed on getting the job done. Even measured on the simplest yardstick we are very far off meeting the goals set out by Forfas. In fact we are still wrestling with the deficiencies of this generations networks. Despite the pressing need, last year, Minister Ryan cheerfully hijacked €10 million out of the broadband budget in his department on the grounds that it wouldn’t get spent. But surely the question is why wasn’t it spent where it needed to go? He is hardly ignorant of the deficiencies. Representing Co Wicklow as I do I find myself dealing with a steady stream of complaints about poor quality or no access. The most heartfelt came from the village of Shillelagh where there is a Cheshire Home for people with disabilities.

    One of the residents John O’Kane has stated publicly. “The internet connection is a lifeline not only for leisure but for work. Most times the internet connection just cuts off for no apparent reason. It is frustrating to see so much advertising for broadband services but when you ring them it is like hitting a brick wall, the service is not always there to acquire.”

    I presumed that the problem was a rural one until a woman complained to me that in Finglas broadband goes off at 6 o’clock most evenings, as a result of overload in her area.

    The National Broadband Scheme is offered as a solution to those rural areas where there are no broadband providers. This scheme is based on the Department’s coverage map. According to this map those areas marked in red have broadband connection. This is not the case. Anecdotal evidence from around the country of people being unable to access broadband services, even in these red areas, is vast. Parliamentary questions submitted to the Minister for Communications invariably include many seeking information on why there is no broadband availability across the country. The answer is inevitably the same: “The provision of broadband services is, in the first instance, a matter for the private sector. Broadband service providers operate in a fully liberalised market, regulated, where appropriate, by the independent Commission for Communications Regulation, ComReg. Those parts of the country where the private sector will be unable to justify the commercial provision of broadband services will be addressed by the National Broadband Scheme (NBS).”

    Concepts of what constitutes quality broadband vary wildly. However, the proposed speed by the National Broadband Scheme of 1MB per second is not a good start. This represents one sixtieth the download speed of a product Eircom is trialling in Dublin. It is one hundredth the speed available in Japan. The European average is 15 MB per second. The absolute minimum standard of connection speed that signifies a broadband network is being revised upwards all the time. The National Broadband Scheme must provide to all areas that do not have broadband coverage with appropriate speeds of at least 3MBs as proposed by this motion.

    ComReg needs to be empowered to regulate the broadband sector much more effectively. Financial penalties on telecom operators should be increased as the current rates of fines are ridiculously low.

    We need to create a Universal Service Obligation (USO) for broadband. Accessibility to broadband networks will assume the same character as the presently understood expectation of universal access to the postal service or telephone network. It will create considerable potential for ensuring a widespread and universally accessible broadband network.

    Along with strengthening the hand of the regulator, the Labour Party seeks a settlement with Eircom to create an operationally separate network division to address the absolutely crucial problem of access to the local loop. This should ensure greater access for other broadband operators to provide services, and a greater variety and less expensive range of broadband products will be on offer for Irish consumers and businesses.

    ENDS


  • #2


    Hello - my name is John McElligott.

    I would welcome the creation of a lobby group as discussed in this thread. However, given I work for eBay, I think it is better if neither I (nor politicians) are actually part of this group, as this could lead to accusations of bias or partiality.

    Instead, what I think would really advance the debate is the creation of some sort of "Broadband Customers Group" or an "Unhappy Broadband Customers Group". For far too long, the debate has been conducted by the infrastructure companies, rather than involving the actual customers of connectivity services. It is high time that the voice of the customer gets heard. FYI, the Irish Internet Association are also currently mobilising for this campaign.

    In terms of what works, my own experience is that writing to local TDs (especially Government ones) can be very effective indeed. My local TDs hear from me all the time. Telling them your experience, reasons for unhappiness, and what to do about it can be very impactful, especially if they keep hearing it.

    In the meantime, my peers and I will continue to "fight the good fight" on this one by simply pointing out the impact our poor connectivity has on our businesses.

    Best regards


  • #2


    John,
    Some of us work for major ISPs, and indeed have been accused of partiality and bias here by some people. But I for one am still keen to add my tuppence worth. Others work for small local ISPs and also as much as wishing to make a profit are dedicated to getting connectivity to as many people as possible.

    We need more transparency and honesty from various quarters as to the existing situation or else any remedy will miss out 30% of people.

    Obvious from my sig who the major ISP is.


  • #2


    Hi John,

    welcome and thanks for your input. I don't fully see your logic, I agree with your point of what is needed but I don't see why you would think you should not be involved in this group. As I see it (and maybe I am missing something) eBay would have nothing to gain (in terms of business advantage) if you were. I would see it that having an influential business leader would only strengthen the group. Just because you work for eBay doesn't mean you don't think we should have better national infrastructure.

    Even if you choose not to get involved it is good to see larger businesses beginning to voice their concerns. :)


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