[US/IRL] 4X03 - "The Economist" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

PullMyFinger!

In Basq's absence Im putting this up - hope its ok with Mods


- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "THE ECONOMIST" -



Episode Title: "The Economist"
Airdate: February 14th 2008

---

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

ABC (US) - February 14th 2008
RTÉ (IRL) - February 19th 2008

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

PullMyFinger!

A solid 8. That twist is hurting my head. Wow :eek:

abelard

PullMyFinger! wrote: »

That twist is hurting my head.

My head hurts too. Mainly because I woke up at 2:30 this morning with a blinding headache, which I still have, and haven't slept since. :mad:

Anyway, maybe it's just my resulting bad temper, but I thought that was pretty meh;

Juliet goes to get Desmond
Sayid goes to the barracks, finds Ben has been leaving the island, swaps Miles for Rebecca, Kate stays over there.
Daniel performs an experiment to test....relativity I guess.
Sayid and Desmond fly off in the chopper.
Flashbacks were filler really until the last two - big twist though, which redeemed the episode to some degree.

Obvious questions;

Can we assume that Naomi's and the German woman's bracelets were similar in some way?
Why did Kate stay with Sawyer?
(Again) Why did Naomi have Desmond's picture?
Why was the golf man scared when he heard Sayid was of the Oceanic 6 - he couldn't have been aware at that stage that Sayid was going to kill him.
Sayid!? Ben!? WTF? etc

It get's a 6 from me. Might have pushed a 7 due to the last scene, but I'm just not in the mood I'm off to find some painkillers and try sleep

randomchild

Another solid episode. The flashforwards were a bit dull, apart from the first and last ones. I wonder what the deal that Sayid and locke made was?

abelard

One more minor thing that crossed my mind;

People have been talking about "time" for, well, a long time. Theories say they may have time travelled, been lost in time, etc.

In this episode, Daniel's experiment appears to show some form of time dilation, evidenced by the obvious lapse between his clock and the clock in tha payload.

However, to counter this, Jack said to (I think it was..) Frank that he couldn't believe that it had been 100 days since they arrived on the island. If there was such a degree of dilation, it would have been nowhere near as long a time for anyone off the island, but Frank didn't react.

Surely these two scenes are completely contradictory? Which means, I guess, that the answer isn't a time dilation, or else that it's a continuity error?

Thoughts?

Dmtiling

The time difference was by only 30 mins so to others on the outside world it wouldn't be noticable when jack said that.

rovers_runner

Great episode again, really consistent so far this series.
One point that struck me was that there is a confirmed "Oceanic 6" according to the public.
Could it be that this may not include Ben and Sayid as they appear to be "underground" in the flashforward scenes.

abelard

Dmtiling wrote: »

The time difference was by only 30 mins so to others on the outside world it wouldn't be noticable when jack said that.

No what I'm trying to get at is that the clock in the payload had 30 extra minutes on it to the clock Daniel had with him. But they were started at the same time for the experiment. the only way I can think for that to happen was because of the movement of that clock relative to the stationary one in Daniel's possession, due to their differing frames of reference.

If this is the case, there should probably be some form of similar lapse between the island and the "rest of the world", no? So there should be about 10 days difference between them?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

rovers_runner wrote: »

Great episode again, really consistent so far this series.
One point that struck me was that there is a confirmed "Oceanic 6" according to the public.
Could it be that this may not include Ben and Sayid as they appear to be "underground" in the flashforward scenes.

Sayid revealed he was one of the Oceanic 6.
Ben was never on Oceanic so he is not.
Kate, Jack and Hurley are also of the Oceanic 6.
The 5th of the Oceanic 6 is to be revealed

in the next episode

.

It was quite a good episode, but aside from the first and last flashforward, the flashforwards were quite dull.

rovers_runner

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Sayid revealed he was one of the Oceanic 6.
Ben was never on Oceanic so he is not.
Kate, Jack and Hurley are also of the Oceanic 6.
The 5th of the Oceanic 6 is to be revealed

in the next episode

.

It was quite a good episode, but aside from the first and last flashforward, the flashforwards were quite dull.

Yeah but he revealed it to a man he then shot, and also to a woman involved with someone he had to assassinate.
Jin & Sun, Desmond and Juliet have flashbacks (possibly flashforward episodes to come) but the lack of Juliet appearing in Jacks flash forward makes you think her episode might be where she meets her end.

doonothing

Will Kate be considered as one of the Oceanic 6 though? Surely she, more than anyone, will be in hiding and not have publicly announced her return?
I think that'll be a twist later on, finding out that the oceanic 6 doesnt include Kate, we're going on presumption that she is, and it leaves room for another character's story after the island...
Do any upcoming eps flashfoward to anyone who stayed on the island?

tvnutz

Up until that mind aching twist at the end,the episode was fairly average.

I liked the opening flashforward where Sayid shoots the guy on the gold course,very unexpected. But after that it was all a bit slow,nothing great.

The bracelet the German woman was wearing seemed to be the same as Naomi's and Ben as Sayid's boss,hiring him to kill people...:eek:

5/10 pushed up to 6/10 for the ending.

Snake Plisken

Sorry boys another 10 from me thats 3 strong episodes in a row.
Sayyid is Jason Bourne
seeing Sayyid on the golf course I thought it was another flashback and instead a flash forward.
Hurley had another class line to Sayyid when Sayyid said he wouldn't hurt him, Hurley says something like "sorry man I saw what you did to the Big fella with that breakdance move you did with your legs"
So I wonder will we get to see Desmond & Sayyid on the freighter in the next 5 episodes?
I think Kate stayed with Sawyer as he seemed to convince her that there was nothing to go back for only Jail.
Locke seemed to be losing direction when he couldn't find the Hut.
Ben's little hidden place was interesting with all of the passports and suites, I don't think the Others knew about that.
Obviosly the big twist at the end in the Vets, although I knew it was Ben when the man spoke, interesting line that Ben says to Sayyid about thinking with his heart did for him before instead of using a gun.

Great episode the extra time that they took to releasing this series has paid dividends as the quality of the writing has been great!

Axwell

doonothing wrote: »

Will Kate be considered as one of the Oceanic 6 though? Surely she, more than anyone, will be in hiding and not have publicly announced her return?
I think that'll be a twist later on, finding out that the oceanic 6 doesnt include Kate, we're going on presumption that she is, and it leaves room for another character's story after the island...
Do any upcoming eps flashfoward to anyone who stayed on the island?

<SNIP>

Axwell.. not the first time I've had to edit one of your posts for spoiling future episodes. Do it once more and you're banned!

Axwell

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I think Kate stayed with Sawyer as he seemed to convince her that there was nothing to go back for only Jail.

She obviously doesnt stay on the island - In the final episode last season where she meets Jack in the flashforward and jack says they have to go back.

PullMyFinger!

Snake Plisken wrote: »

"sorry man I saw what you did to the Big fella with that breakdance move you did with your legs"

I think that was the funniest line Ive heard on Lost. Ever!

idlesupernova

Brillant episode. Full of twists, at the end I had a feeling that it would be Jack who was treating Sayid's wound for some reason but I was way off! When I saw Ben my jaw dropped. The Lost writers are on a roll so far brillant stuff. That being said we might get an episode of Sun and Jin discussing Honour and fishing.

Keep waiting for Michael to pop up when I see his name in the credits:mad:

Snake Plisken

Axwell wrote: »

She obviously doesnt stay on the island - In the final episode last season where she meets Jack in the flashforward and jack says they have to go back.

I know that! I'm just talking in the context of this weeks episode.

Snake Plisken

idlesupernova wrote: »

Keep waiting for Michael to pop up when I see his name in the credits:mad:

I can see this playing out with Michael on the freighter, I hope to Fluck that Desmond shoots him before he finishs saying "They took my Boy"

oleras

Another really good episode. Excellent final scene. The missing 31 min is going to very important i think !

Oh, will people please stop talking about the next weeks episodes, trailers or not, i dont watch trailers !

Axwell

<SNIP>

Well.. now i'm pissed. I've to come in here and edit a reported post when I haven't even seen the episode yet.

Axwell.. cop the f*ck on!

BloodSugarSex

in all fairness that was a really bad episode, the end twist was just confusing.

the story is getting way too farfetched

Agamemnon

randomchild wrote:

I wonder what the deal that Sayid and locke made was?

Sayid got to take Charlotte with him but Locke got Miles in return. Miles is a tosser. I hope Sayid tortures him at some point in the future.

I enjoyed this one, I always like Sayid episodes. It looks like Ben is using Sayid to kill off Dharma members to keep the island a secret. I'll bet that Ben is still able to return to the island in the future, just like he was always able to leave it in the present.

Interesting to see the similarities between Sayid's flash-forward and his current life (the bracelets, closing a dead woman's eyes, etc). Just a thought: if time is out of whack on the island, maybe characters will start to see glimpses of their flash-forwards while they're still on the island and "remember" things before they happen? Probably not as the writers have said the flash-forwards are set in stone and will definitely happen, so there's no chance of them changing their futures.

LOL at Sawyer calling Ben "Gizmo".

Creamy Goodness

sorry but that was a pretty average episode except for these moments.

1. hurley's break dancing comment
2. ben being called gizmo.
3. the last 30 seconds.

pickarooney

A cracker of an episode, even discounting my Sayyid fetish.
It really seemed as though he had known Naomi as he was closing her eyes and again in the chopper - or maybe he was just saddened by the sight of a dead hot chick.

Has anyone come up with a theory, similar to the Bruce Willis hair-levels one about Juliet's waxing and waning hotness? She seems to look minging in the exciting episodes and smoking in the slower ones.

anotherlostie

I thought the moments made the episode great.

Hurley had some brilliant one liners - "Great - the ship sent us another Sawyer" when Miles called him 'Tubby', and the breakdancing one. I also LOL'd at Jack suggesting to Kate that he follow Sayid after 20 minutes if he wants to feel excluded like she often does.

I thought the courting part of the flash forward was a bit pointless til of course the two mega twists - she was after him, and Ben was off the island. I didn't see those coming. But Sayid shooting the golfer, Elsa shooting Sayid (dead, I thought), and finally Ben's appearance were all WTF moments.

Together with the confirmation (?) of the time shift element, I thought this was a really good episode with lots going on. And I can't wait to see the freighter next week...I hope.

jor el

Of the three episodes so far, I thought this was the best. I wish that they'd at least asked Daniel what it meant by "this isn't good" in relation to the time difference. The clock in the rocket gained 31 minutes on the clock that was on the island. So, assuming that both clocks started at zero when the experiment began, it took 2:45 for the payload to get through to the island (for whatever reason), but the rocket clock had 3:16 on it. Does this mean it takes about 3 hours 16 minutes to make it through whatever is shrouding the island, and that time compresses when passing through, so in the 3:16 spent traveling only 2:45 passes for everyone else?

My guess now is that there is no time difference between the island and the outside world, but there is a time dilation when passing through to the island. This would explain why no one batted an eyelid to Jack's 100 days comment, I thought for a second that the pilot was going to say something like "it's only been a week" or "but it's been years", but no. This had finally got me intrigued, which is something that I've been missing from Lost over the last year.

On to Sayid, and killing the guy on the golf course. I thought that maybe he was involved with Dharma, but if he was then surely he would know who Sayid was and recognise him. He got very jumpy the minute Sayid mentioned Oceanic so there's got to be something there. Plus, it is Ben getting Sayid to kill these people after all.

And last thing I can think of now, Ben's comment about the last time Sayid thought with his heart instead of his gun. I wonder is that something that's going to happen soon, or way off. If soon, I'm guessing on the boat, but somehow I doubt it'll be that quick. Whatever it was, it's the reason Sayid starts to work for Ben so it's got to involve lots of killing.

8/10 for that one this week.

manster

Ben is Sayid's boss in the future - "We all have bosses". What is the 'hold' that Ben has over him? Why do they need to kill the Dharma guys? What can the Dharma guys do to the Islanders?

Best season since the first...so far

Basq

Very enjoyable episode but flash-forwards let it down. Think it's funny to still hear people referring to them as flashbacks!

Some lovely twists here and there.. Sayid shooting yer man in cold blood on the golf course and walking away with the sprinklers on, Elsa shooting Sayid etc. Top trumps on twists this week.

Not sure what to think about the final minute or so - it was great but very outta left field. I knew it was Ben as it sounded like him from the start of the scene but the "you wanna protect your friends or not, Sayid?" line is the most interesting. Has Ben got the non-Oceanic 6 in danger on the island? Are they being held captive, and by who?

Line of the week: "Great - the ship sent us another Sawyer!"

I'll give it a 7.

Axwell

Axwell wrote: »

<SNIP>

Well.. now i'm pissed. I've to come in here and edit a reported post when I haven't even seen the episode yet.

Axwell.. cop the f*ck on!

I didnt give anything away, you already know from the flashforwards what i said in the post. Apologies anyways but eh i dont think there is any need for the personal abuse basquille

Sad Professor

Good episode but not as good as the first two. There was a lot of very well written twists but a lack of solid character-driven drama especially in the flash-forward which seemed like a cross between Jason Bourne and Munich. Not very Lost-like at all. I need to give it a second viewing though.

Anyway lots of interesting things to discuss. I'm not sure about the time dilation. There's a fairly old theory that time in the real world is moving faster than on the island and Damon has been hinting something similar since the end of the 2nd season. But if that is the case it has to have started post-hatch implosion since there is tons of evidence of time matching up before that. I find it unlikely either way since real-time communication with the freighter wouldn't be possible if time was moving faster outside.

Axwell, I can't remember exactly what your post was before basq edited it but I think you revealed something from next week's promo.

Axwell

I mentioned something that was fairly obvious without seeing it,but anyways i probably shouldnt have and apologised.case closed - it was basquilles response i was posting about above

AlmightyCushion

Sad Professor wrote: »

Good episode but not as good as the first two. There was a lot of very well written twists but a lack of solid character-driven drama especially in the flash-forward which seemed like a cross between Jason Bourne and Munich. Not very Lost-like at all. I need to give it a second viewing though.

Anyway lots of interesting things to discuss. I'm not sure about the time dilation. There's a fairly old theory that time in the real world is moving faster than on the island and Damon has been hinting something similar since the end of the 2nd season. But if that is the case it has to have started post-hatch implosion since there is tons of evidence of time matching up before that. I find it unlikely either way since real-time communication with the freighter wouldn't be possible if time was moving faster outside.

Axwell, I can't remember exactly what your post was before basq edited it but I think you revealed something from next week's promo.

Well we still don't know the rate the difference is. It could be relatively small or a huge difference. Also we don't know the size of the time dilation field. Once again if it's relatively small then it shouldn't affect communications too much.

Although I really don't see the point of them introducing a time dilation thingey if it's only slightly slower than the real world. Unless of course there is some twist, like the difference is growing at an exponential rate where the outside world is moving at a much faster rate (e.g. decades, centuries, millennia).

Maybe something in the real world is going to happen and because they are in this time dilation field they will be free from it (because whatever happens will be years in the future), they may even have time to solve it or something.

jArgHA

Must say I enjoyed that one, although I'm a sucker for twists, and this ep. had quite a few.

In the final sequence when Ben says "is she dead?", first time I heard it I thought he said "miss your dad?" and that it was another father reference ... then thought it was going to reveal Jack's dad as being the guy who was patching up Sayid...

Dissapointed in Hurley going along with Locke's plan to apprehend whoever came looking for Charlotte - in the previous sequence he seemed to be going against Locke, but I guess Locke has him pretty much wrapped around his finger - at least for now.

Hmm my Lost theory still amounts to "Jack's dad is the baddy"

Sad Professor

AlmightyCushion wrote:

Although I really don't see the point of them introducing a time dilation thingey if it's only slightly slower than the real world. Unless of course there is some twist, like the difference is growing at an exponential rate where the outside world is moving at a much faster rate (e.g. decades, centuries, millennia).

Faraday does tell Frank to stick to their previous bearing no matter what, he was very specific about this. So perhaps this time distortion only happens as a result of not following that bearing. Ben told Michael to follow a bearing of 325 at the end of season 2.

Axwell

If theres a time dialation though we dont know its small.Like we saw it was small in the case of the beacon here but that was in a small period of time, in every hour it might be off by 2 minutes,thats a lot of minutes in the time they have been on the island and would mean real time is a lot further ahead of what they are now.

AlmightyCushion

Sad Professor wrote: »

Faraday does tell Frank to stick to their previous bearing no matter what, he was very specific about this. So perhaps this time distortion only happens as a result of not following that bearing. Ben told Michael to follow a bearing of 325 at the end of season 2.

I don't see how following a special path would stop the effects of the time dilation thingey. The island is in it, the outside world isn't. Following a bearing of 325 can't change that therefore it can't change the fact that time on the island is going slower than the real world.

AlmightyCushion

Axwell wrote: »

If theres a time dialation though we dont know its small.Like we saw it was small in the case of the beacon here but that was in a small period of time, in every hour it might be off by 2 minutes,thats a lot of minutes in the time they have been on the island and would mean real time is a lot further ahead of what they are now.

But we don't know how long the missile spent inside on the time dilation field. This is what determines the time difference.

For example if the missile takes 10 hours real world time to get to that point and 5 hours island time to get to the point. This doesn't mean that time is moving twice as fast off the island as the missile has spend time both outside and inside the time dilation field. Once the clock on the missile entered the field, it would be running at exactly the same rate as the clock on the island.

In the above example if the missile took 6 hour to get to the time dilation field, then that would mean that 4 hours were spent inside it. For these 4 hours both clocks were running at exactly the same rate. This means that the missle spent 1 hour island time outside of the field. So for every 1 hour inside the time dilation field, 6 hours pass outside it.

That may not make much sense but it basically means that until we know how long the missile took to enter the field then we can only guess at what the difference between the two times are.

Sinfonia

Twist...WTF..etc...as above, basically

Anyone else notice how the episode began with Sayid with his eyes shut?
Just seemed like a noticeable contrast to the old episode beginnings of the eye opening...

Bounty Hunter

Sayid left the Island as part of the Oceanic 6 to become... James Bond! and Ben is M! now that is a twist i didnt see coming. Really enjoying these flash forwards, they are far better than the flash backs which although initially were relevant for character development quickly became filler IMO (with a few notable exclusions).

Gotta assume that Ben's list that sayid is crossing names off from is people from the group lead by Lance Reddick's character (the black guy that was questioning Hurley in his flash forward and prepping Naomi... he was also in the Wire) be that Dharma or whatever. That prehaps Ben has been constantly leaving the Island (atleast until the Sub was blown) for the purpose of stopping this group finding his Island and now the people left behind on it.

im quite interested to see what reaction the people on the freighter will give the losties when they arrive on the helicopter, in particular Desmond. Also if there will be a familiar face on the Freighter(the spy), Micheal (They Took My BOY!!) prehaps

steveland?

Good episode I thought. Liked the experiment with the "payload".

Flashforward wasn't great but progression wise it was pretty cool, learn a lot about what the real world's like for Sayid once he gets out...

Remember back in season 2 when they said "he wasn't on Jacob's list" or something similar? Same list maybe?

I was really expecting it to be Christian patching Sayid up.

Sounds like Ben has everyone on the island held hostage and Sayid is left doing his bidding so Ben doesn't kill them all. Remember ghost-Charlie telling Hurley he had to help them? Then Hurley telling Jack that they had to go back and help them.

My guess is that the 6 of them got out (so far Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid. Two more to come), Ben also got out obviously but doubt he's one of the Oceanic 6 because he wasn't on Oceanic. The real world doesn't know about the island either I presume because Jack was there to find out if Hurley was going to tell anyone. Ben has everyone else on the island held there somehow and he won't let them go until the list (Jacob's?) is finished and everyone on it is dead.

Axwell

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

But we don't know how long the missile spent inside on the time dilation field. This is what determines the time difference.

For example if the missile takes 10 hours real world time to get to that point and 5 hours island time to get to the point. This doesn't mean that time is moving twice as fast off the island as the missile has spend time both outside and inside the time dilation field. Once the clock on the missile entered the field, it would be running at exactly the same rate as the clock on the island.

In the above example if the missile took 6 hour to get to the time dilation field, then that would mean that 4 hours were spent inside it. For these 4 hours both clocks were running at exactly the same rate. This means that the missle spent 1 hour island time outside of the field. So for every 1 hour inside the time dilation field, 6 hours pass outside it.

That may not make much sense but it basically means that until we know how long the missile took to enter the field then we can only guess at what the difference between the two times are.

I see what you are talking about above but im simple terms he recorded a difference of 31 minutes between the time it took and should have taken to arrive.

He compares the watch from within the missile to the watch he had when he started the experiment, they show a difference of 31 minutes. Regina counted down the distance to the beacon so it should have taken about 27 seconds to arrive,it took 31 minutes so roughly for every 30 seconds you are in the real world you are 30 minutes on the island showing time is running a lot slower there.

As someone else suggested before it would also give some thoery as to why Walt looks taller to locke - in the real world Walt would be growing at a normal rate whereas on the island he would be growing much slower and Locke would think he only saw Walt a few weeks ago when a yr could have passed.


Why is the bearing important though and why would it avoid the time dialation?Ben also gave Michael a bearing to follow when he let him go

Sad Professor

I really don't think time on the island is moving slower. Real-time communication would not be possible and even if it was Daniel would already know the full details of it and wouldn't need to experiment.

I think the time dilation happens in the journey to the island. Perhaps the island is in the middle of a space-time vortex or something. There may be a specific point on the vortex where it's possible to punch through (would explain the bumpy ride) to the center (where the island is) without any time dilation. If you miss this point however you get caught in the vortex and end up swirling around in time until you reach the center. This is why Daniel warned Frank about taking the right heading. Might explained what happened to Des as well.

Axwell

Sad Professor wrote: »

I really don't think time on the island is moving slower. Real-time communication would not be possible and even if it was Daniel would already know the full details of it and wouldn't need to experiment.

I think the time dilation happens in the journey to the island. Perhaps the island is in the middle of a space-time vortex or something. There may be a specific point on the vortex where it's possible to punch through (would explain the bumpy ride) to the center (where the island is) without any time dilation. If you miss this point however you get caught in the vortex and end up swirling around in time until you reach the center. This is why Daniel warned Frank about taking the right heading. Might explained what happened to Des as well.

Why would Daniel know the full details,this is his first experience of the island surely he would need to experiment to figure out whats happening.

Would your space-time vortex/something not affect real time communication also if this was the case?

When you say bumpy ride i assume you mean the helicopter nearly crashing, i still think this is due to EMF interference or magnetic interference.Another example of headings and disruption was Sayids compass being off before.

pickarooney

The Red Sox won the World Series again in 2007. Maybe 3 years have passed but everyone on the island is immune to the passage of time except for foetuses who, protected by the womb, grow at a normal rate and suffocate by the time they reach what should be their birth age but is only a few months for the mother?

jor el

Sad Professor wrote: »

I really don't think time on the island is moving slower. Real-time communication would not be possible and even if it was Daniel would already know the full details of it and wouldn't need to experiment.

I think the time dilation happens in the journey to the island. Perhaps the island is in the middle of a space-time vortex or something.

That's pretty much what I was saying. There can't be a big time difference (faster or slower) between the Island and the outside world as they wouldn't be able to talk to each other on the phones if there were. Also, the rocket should have taken a few seconds to reach the island, but it took 2hrs 45 minutes according to the clock on the island. The clock in the rocket however had been running for 3 hours 16 minutes, meaning that not only was it flying around (in circles) somewhere between the ship and the island, but that time was passing at a different rate. This leads me to believe that whatever is surrounding the island, protecting it from the outside world and preventing people from leaving, is also bending time.

Axwell wrote: »

Why would Daniel know the full details,this is his first experience of the island surely he would need to experiment to figure out whats happening.

He doesn't know the full details, that's why he ran the experiment. They're obviously aware of something there, and knew what course to take when coming onto the island in the helicopter in the first place. Perhaps Michael is on the boat, Ben told him what course to follow to get out, so he may have told the people on the boat this too, if he was picked up by them.

Would your space-time vortex/something not affect real time communication also if this was the case?

Obviously this is the type of vortex that only effects physical matter and not EM radiation, otherwise the sunlight would also be effected. Could be that EM radiation, traveling at the speed of light, is able to pass through, but slower moving objects can't.

[/quote]When you say bumpy ride i assume you mean the helicopter nearly crashing, i still think this is due to EMF interference or magnetic interference.Another example of headings and disruption was Sayids compass being off before.[/QUOTE]

If the EMF interference caused the helicopter to come down on the island, why were they able to take off again? The pilot mentioned something about flying around in the storm, so perhaps they got slightly off course and spent time flying around the vortex. Sayid also mentioned some minor damage to the helicopter, but not enough to stop it from flying.

Agamemnon

jor el wrote: »

Obviously this is the type of vortex that only effects physical matter and not EM radiation, otherwise the sunlight would also be effected.

Didn't Daniel say that there was something unusual about the sunlight on the island, that it seemed "scattered"?

Axwell

jor el wrote: »

Obviously this is the type of vortex that only effects physical matter and not EM radiation, otherwise the sunlight would also be effected. Could be that EM radiation, traveling at the speed of light, is able to pass through, but slower moving objects can't.

The sunlight is affected, Daniel says "the light it doesnt scatter quite right"

On another note any thoughts on the bracelet, is it just a token given by the employer of Naomi and Elsa possibly given to all staff or is there more of a connection. The bracelets look identical, and who is R.G (Regina maybe) or someone we havent seen yet.

Son Goku

In my opinion there isn't any time dilation going on. Ben's passports and the "Others" ability to access real time information from the outside world (As seen when Michael showed Ben information on Oceanic 815) makes it look to me that they are fairly in sync with the rest of the world.

However that doesn't explain the bear fossil Charlotte found with the Hydra tag on it.

jor el

Son Goku wrote: »

In my opinion there isn't any time dilation going on.

Not between the island and the outside, but there is when you pass through whatever is in between. Or at least that's what I reckon. I don't think there's any speed up or slow down of time on the island itself.

Hugh_C

Mr.S wrote: »

i wonder who the next name on Bens list is?

It's got to be Jack.

Regarding all the time dilation theories, you guys have all been watching too much bad sci-fi. Unless of course Dharma have invented the Super Deluxe Portable Black Hole Generator, in which case it's entirely plausible ...