Marcel Luske: Far and away the worst player I have ever seen.

NickyOD

I really cannot believe how poor a player this man is. I've been watching him all week and I'm convinced he is completely and utterly clueless. Remember this is one of the most famous players in the world and rated by many as the best tournament player in Europe.

example 1. He limps in the small blind with K-Ts and he and Annie Duke check to the river where there are 4 spades on the board and the ten of spades makes a straight flush. Duke has 3 of spade.

Lsuke splashes out 20,000 into 4,000 pot! Does he think Annie Duke is some kind of moron? With no betting so far there's probably no spade she can call with and he's making it ridiculously easy for her to fold even if she does have a high spade.

example 2. He has not reraises preflop with AJ-AK all week and never won with any of these hands and execpt for AJ on day one where he flopped trips on a JJQ board against two player with K-T. He was in BB in a great spot to squeeze and take it preflop but didn't. He got no action pot-flop even with a King came on the turn because everyone knows how much he likes to slowplay.

example 3: with blinds 1000-2000 Andy Black raises on the button to 6,000 and Luske just calls in the small blind with AK. The call is about 10% of his stack. Even though black has been very active he doesn't re-raise preflop. Black had 89.

Flop A-9-2. He check calls 8,000 from Andy. Turn an 8. He check calls 14,000. River a 4. Luske leads for 20,000 believing he has trapped Black. Black calls with his two pair.

"Wow you didn't re-raise me at any stage"
"Because I have a big hand and I want to get paid"

Without even going into the math I can't believe that anyone with his experience could believe this line of thinking is logical.

I could post many other glaring examples all week, like calling the turn with dodgy draws and gutshots. Actually. This hand is ****ing hilarious. I've no idea how he got away with it.

Andrew Black limps in with {J-Clubs}{Q-Clubs} from first position. Helppi folds, Luske completes the small blind with {5-Spades}{3-Diamonds}, and Vicky Coren checks with {8-Diamonds}{7-Hearts}.

The flop comes {7-Clubs}{A-Clubs}{5-Spades}. Luske and Coren check and Black bets 12,000 with his flush draw. Luske calls and Vicky Coren folds the best hand.

Turn is the {10-Hearts}. Luske leads out for 20,000 and Black calls.

River is the {10-Spades} and Luske bets 10,000, leaving himself with just 6,000 behind. Black calls with queen high!

Bottom pair is good enough for Luske to double up.

ianmc38

Yeah anytime Ive seen him he looks attrocious.

zuutroy

Clearly he's just mixing it up (for a week)

ditpoker

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=s&n=163

nicky when you have these results get back to me.

eoghan104

Why would you post this Nicky? Its like when you say how bad Hellmuth is when hes the most succesfull NLHE MTT player ever?

You sit around playing medium stake STT's all day and then just randomly post a new thread about how bad someone more succesful than you is? Whats wrong with you?

LuckyLloyd

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Heisenberg.

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LuckyLloyd

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ianmc38

Having a load of results doesnt make somebody theoretically good at poker. From what I've seen of him on tv, Luske is obviously lacking in any fundamental knowledge of the game but uses different skill sets in donkaments such as aggression and soul reads.

He does dress pretty sharply though. i'll give him that much.

LuckyLloyd

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Hitman Actual

ditpoker wrote: »

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=s&n=163

nicky when you have these results get back to me.

I think it was HJ who said a few years ago: this just proves that he plays a lot of tournaments. I've no opinion on Luske one way or another, but I personally don't like the way Hendon Mob DB results are always thrown around as the great indicator of someones skill in the game.

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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bops

Jesus you guy's are tough, nicky is workin' at the mo and was kind enough to give us a small insight (at 7am!) into some play that may not reach TV

we should be happy that we've got someone in a position to bring us news/gossip

thanks nicky, yes luske looks to be a donkey, but a very lucky donkey

keep up the good work, and the rest of ye are a shower of cnuts imo

ps Lloyd, posting his hendon mob results is a bit low - nicky doesn't play many big games so he is hardly gonna have a big set or results

NickyOD

ditpoker wrote: »

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=s&n=163

nicky when you have these results get back to me.

He has clearly been on a losing streak since 2006.

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

tollish Bops. trollish.

why so? nicky is a nice fella, and you are being a pr1ck - wtf is trollish about that????


edit - jesus i reply quick!

LuckyLloyd

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NickyOD

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh and, more to the point, if Luske plays like an idiot on a show that will be shown on a prominent UK tv channel then great. If anything, this increases your general ev. He will surely be introduced by the commentators as "europe's best tournament player evar" or some such nonesense. You'll then have some idiot doing the commentary who'll wax lyrical over how much of a clever fox Luske is and how good all those rubbish plays were. And that will surely result in some viewers going online or to their next tournament and copying what they have seen which = monies for me and you.

God, why am I even posting the obvious.

Actually only the players who are playing in the league are in the commentary box and criticism is encouraged. I'm pretty sure no one has been singing his praises.

And why did you post my hendonmob stats? Luske plays ranking and televised events every week. I play events that would get recorded on the mob maybe two or three times year and IPO results didn't go in there.

I think it's just really funny that a man so highly rated is obviously total donkey. The guy open shoved 16BBs form first position with an ace rag several times in the last few days.

He doesn't know what he's doing.

ianmc38

Yeah comparing Nickys stats to Luskes is silly tbh. Luske plays big events every single week.

Bad Beat Joe and The Chief cash in tournaments week in week out in Dublin. Does that make them good at poker. No. They're absymal.

LuckyLloyd

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Requiem4adream

It's in my blog (that im sure nobody reads lol) but i'll say it here as well. Got talking to Marcel for around 30 mins in the hotel with my brother over in Dortmund. We were heading for the airport, he was up for breakfast still there & ITM in the EPT :rolleyes:. We talked poker the whole time. Very imposing man, he must be about 6'3, talks very calm and composed, must be a Dutch trait. His views on the game to me seemed very simplistic, it was hard to work out how much of that was lost in translation - i know the dutch generally speak good english but a lot of it felt like he couldnt express precisely what he was trying to say. Anyway besides the point... i'm astonished by the thread title to say the least. He obviously possesses a good mtt game and those numbers in Hendon Mob db must represent huge profit, im sure he's been sponsored for years as it is,hence entry fees will be minimal/none.

I guarantee you 100% Nicky if you watched anyone, i mean anyone, over a lot of hands you could in isolation pick hands they played that make them look like a fkin idiot. My exit hand from the GJP deep stacks main event was an absolute train wreck and about 5 hands i played in that level were catastrophic. Whether i am an idiot or not is a different debate lol but I'm sure even guys who FT'd that event, in isolation, played certain hands badly and looked donkified.

There's literally millions of fish in the poker world, to say Marcel is "far and away" the worst is complete waffle!!!!

LuckyLloyd

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bops

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Whow Bops, you supercede time and the general order of things it seems. :eek:

me quick, you slow - that's life

HU for rolls?

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why does Luske play televised ranking events every week and you don't? Cause he has the bigger bankroll? Is that not at all relevant? Like, not even a little bit?

if i was to have a guess:
because years ago he got lucky and took down a big tourney, due to his carisma he got a nice sonsorship deal, being a good player is very much so secondary

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

having read this thread carefully, I conclude that Bops is a time lord

and Nicky has a touch of the green-eyed monster

<please update your sig Bops>

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Such is modern poker. Whining about it seems a little pointless.

i know and i'm not whining - you should go to carisma classes - you'd probly make a fortune

bops

El Stuntman wrote: »

having read this thread carefully, I conclude that Bops is a time lord

and Nicky has a touch of the green-eyed monster

<please update your sig Bops>

that's well fking freaky - i just did!! AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - fk that i'm outta here

seriously El S - that's spooky - what are the odds on that happening twice?

HoLLLLLaments

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look, in this case he has a lot of results. He's clearly a very profitable tournament player and makes a very good living from the game.

id love to see his lifetime ROI in mtts. people do misinterpret hendon mob total cashes. People see that such and such has 5million in mtt winnings and are like ZOMG HE WON A COOL 5 MILLION. they dont seem to factor in that that person has probably spent over the years 4 million on buy ins winning that 5 million, add travel expenses,hotels etc and its pretty obvious that all of these "very profitable players" are in fact not "very" profitable. Its really not that difficult to avg 400k a year in winnings a year if you spend 375k on buy ins. And in luskes case as someone pointed out most of his winnings came when fields were alot softer. I dont know if hes any good at poker "i suspect not" but since he sings and shouts at the tables im sure hell be able to make money from poker even if its not from winning anything

strewelpeter

I have heard that he makes a lot of money bankrolling online players who operate in a ...'team' environment.
Anyone know of any substance to this?

El Stuntman

bops wrote: »

that's well fking freaky - i just did!! AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - fk that i'm outta here

seriously El S - that's spooky - what are the odds on that happening twice?

try playing poker with me Bops, I know what you're going to do before you do it....

HoLLLLLaments

strewelpeter wrote: »

I have heard that he makes a lot of money bankrolling online players who operate in a ...'team' environment.
Anyone know of any substance to this?

yes there is substance to it

bops

El Stuntman wrote: »

try playing poker with me Bops, I know what you're going to do before you do it....

meh i obv bluffing

for the craic El S:
PM lloyd the first thing that pops into your head, i'll do same

ok? go!!

NickyOD

Requiem4adream wrote: »

It's in my blog (that im sure nobody reads lol) but i'll say it here as well. Got talking to Marcel for around 30 mins in the hotel with my brother over in Dortmund. We were heading for the airport, he was up for breakfast still there & ITM in the EPT :rolleyes:. We talked poker the whole time. Very imposing man, he must be about 6'3, talks very calm and composed, must be a Dutch trait. His views on the game to me seemed very simplistic, it was hard to work out how much of that was lost in translation - i know the dutch generally speak good english but a lot of it felt like he couldnt express precisely what he was trying to say. Anyway besides the point... i'm astonished by the thread title to say the least. He obviously possesses a good mtt game and those numbers in Hendon Mob db must represent huge profit, im sure he's been sponsored for years as it is,hence entry fees will be minimal/none.

I guarantee you 100% Nicky if you watched anyone, i mean anyone, over a lot of hands you could in isolation pick hands they played that make them look like a fkin idiot. My exit hand from the GJP deep stacks main event was an absolute train wreck and about 5 hands i played in that level were catastrophic. Whether i am an idiot or not is a different debate lol but I'm sure even guys who FT'd that event, in isolation, played certain hands badly and looked donkified.

Also did anyone else see his blow up at the IPC?

There's literally millions of fish in the poker world, to say Marcel is "far and away" the worst is complete waffle!!!!

I've watched 100s of hands he's played all week. I can see the hole cams of all the players. If you go through the pokernews blog you'll see how poor he's been playing. I'm not talking about one train wreck hand, I'm talking about many many train wrecks and a clear and unquestionable mis-understanding of basic math and basic NL concepts. He tries to play his own style and it's just nonsensical. He looks so terrible he's like someone who is only just learning to play the game.

He may be sponsored but not that many buy-ins are paid for him and in terms of ROI% if he had to buy in to every tournament he played since the beginning of 2007 he is definitely losing. In fact in 2007 his total haul in Europe was just $1,282 and he plays a hell of a lot of tournaments.

Also did anyone else see his blow up at the IPC?

Goodluck2me

NickyOD wrote: »

The guy open shoved 16BBs form first position with an ace rag several times in the last few days.

LLoyd?

Luckylloyd wrote:

Look, in this case he has a lot of results. He's clearly a very profitable tournament player and makes a very good living from the game. At some point, that has to count for something.

they show he is successful, not profitable. He may have spent twice that in entry fees.

Eoghan 104 wrote:

Why would you post this Nicky? Its like when you say how bad Hellmuth is when hes the most succesfull NLHE MTT player ever?

You sit around playing medium stake STT's all day and then just randomly post a new thread about how bad someone more succesful than you is? Whats wrong with you?

What an irrelevant thing to say.

LuckyLloyd

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Requiem4adream

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

id love to see his lifetime ROI in mtts. people do misinterpret hendon mob total cashes. People see that such and such has 5million in mtt winnings and are like ZOMG HE WON A COOL 5 MILLION. they dont seem to factor in that that person has probably spent over the years 4 million on buy ins winning that 5 million, add travel expenses,hotels etc and its pretty obvious that all of these "very profitable players" are in fact not "very" profitable. Its really not that difficult to avg 400k a year in winnings a year if you spend 375k on buy ins. And in luskes case as someone pointed out most of his winnings came when fields were alot softer. I dont know if hes any good at poker "i suspect not" but since he sings and shouts at the tables im sure hell be able to make money from poker even if its not from winning anything

Eh i'll take Sweeping Statements for 500 please?

Travel expenses, hotels, entry fees etc are covered in most sponsorship deals. I imagine Luske has been sponsored or has had the option of being sponsored for many years, thus negating a lot of those costs. Most of the extremely high profile players will have had this option too, so normally a 5 million db is pretty much WOW and does represent big profit, as the cost of living/playing is substantially lower than it would be for the average Joe Soap playing the same tournaments.

As for making 25k profit on 375k of course that's relatively easy, although for a very bad player highly unlikely.

luckylucky

I too agree that hendon mob data can be very misleading. You see the total amount cashed. You do not see total amount spent. I'm not slagging off mtt players here btw - I know they are some genuine top notch mtt players on here like req4adream, Luckylloyd, Ollieboy, NFR(Who I also know is a great sng player from our recent duels online , rag2gar etc etc) but it's really hard to judge how good someone is at poker based on mtt results alone, the variance is so enormous on them. I think it's knowledgable evaluation of the abilities of those mtt players which counts more in my eyes than actual results. i.e. the superb ability of players like Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Patrik Antonius, Chip Reese are not in doubt. On the other hand due to the nature of variance in mtts I don't doubt that they are plenty of donks with fantastic records.

I don't know a whole lot about Marcel Luske specifially tbh. I agree any player can have a bad day, it certainly sounds like he was playing absolutely awful from nicky's description.

Don't really see what the prob with Nicky posting this either, makes for an interesting heated 'discussion' at the least

My main experince of poker has been online. And as I posted before about the 'pros' I play on Full-tilt they don't impress me much - and they don't impress much on sharkscope either

HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

those numbers in Hendon Mob db must represent huge profit

this is wrong

Requiem4adream wrote: »

im sure he's been sponsored for years as it is,hence entry fees will be minimal/none.

could you expand on this please? i was not aware he was sponsered for the duration of his live mtt career. also this must be one of the best sponsorship deals around if hes getting 100% of his live mtt entry fees paid for. I dont know the volume of live mtts he plays but from other people in the thread it seems to be a huge amount. I cannot see a sponsorship deal like this being profitable for the sponsor. Perhaps he is hugely marketable in dutch poker to the point where a deal like this would be profitable.

Marq

lol donkaments.

Goodluck2me

ditpoker wrote: »

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=s&n=163

nicky when you have these results get back to me.

lol coming from you Geoff thats ridiculous! You havent entered a tournament over 500 never mind won one!

El Stuntman

bops wrote: »

for the craic El S:
PM lloyd the first thing that pops into your head, i'll do same

ok? go!!

OK, PMing him now

eoghan104

goodluck2me wrote: »

What an irrelevant thing to say.

What was irrelevant?

Requiem4adream

It's too easy for the likes of you (cash game player) to come on here and bash the likes of Marcel or Hellmuth etc. Tournament players are a lot more visible and accountable than cash game players. You have databases like opr, pokerdb, sharkscope etc (all of which can opt out of but most people cant be arsed) and for live poker you have things like hendonmob db etc.

Other than going to the trouble of datamining cash games, nobody has a clue how cash game players do and most of it is pure speculation. You could tell me here and now that you're a millionaire from poker and all i would have to go on is your word and accept it. I cant go to the cashgamedb and cross check that. Not that i'd want to but you catch my drift.

I dont think it's very fair to bash people like Marcel based on "100s of hands", even if they are consistently useless, nor is it fair to make assumptions on his profit/loss over the period. I would be *surprised* if the 5mil or whatever represented a loss - remember if he did do well when the fields were softer, there were also infinitely less big buy-in tournaments before the poker boom, hence his potential outlay per year was far less. Nowadays im sure it's possible to outlay 500k+ a year on big buy-in tournaments so potential losses are far greater.

El Stuntman

lol, let's all have a fight - hasn't been a good one for a while

HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Travel expenses, hotels, entry fees etc are covered in most sponsorship deals. I imagine Luske has been sponsored or has had the option of being sponsored for many years, Most of the extremely high profile players will have had this option too

so you are saying that name players like luske are given a freeroll on all mtts they play. and not just a freeroll on the buy in they also get their travel expenses hotel fees etc payed for also. For these name players who are playing that huge volume of mtts at the end of the year that could run up well past 1 million. Where are all these companys that issue these sponsorship deals? Some players like phil ivey that have a phenominal marketing presence might be able to attain such a deal but they are a select few. Any company that issued sponsorship deals like that to players with the markability of marcel luske would go broke. They simply would not be profitable. Do you think FTP puts all the pros into every tournament they play and picks up the tab for expenses also? Even very high profile players like mike matusow etc would not show a profit for the company with a deal like this.


So therefore when these people have 5 million in winnings but 4.5 million in buy ins it does not show a huge profit of 5 million because they were given a 4.5 million+expenses freeroll by their sponsor.

LuckyLloyd

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HoLLLLLaments

Requiem4adream wrote: »

It's too easy for the likes of you (cash game player) to come on here and bash the likes of Marcel or Hellmuth etc. Tournament players are a lot more visible and accountable than cash game players. You have databases like opr, pokerdb, sharkscope etc (all of which can opt out of but most people cant be arsed) and for live poker you have things like hendonmob db etc.

Other than going to the trouble of datamining cash games, nobody has a clue how cash game players do and most of it is pure speculation. You could tell me here and now that you're a millionaire from poker and all i would have to go on is your word and accept it. I cant go to the cashgamedb and cross check that. Not that i'd want to but you catch my drift.

I dont think it's very fair to bash people like Marcel based on "100s of hands", even if they are consistently useless, nor is it fair to make assumptions on his profit/loss over the period. I would be *surprised* if the 5mil or whatever represented a loss - remember if he did do well when the fields were softer, there were also infinitely less big buy-in tournaments before the poker boom, hence his potential outlay per year was far less. Nowadays im sure it's possible to outlay 500k+ a year on big buy-in tournaments so potential losses are far greater.

turning this into a cash game players say tourny players suck is silly. I believe lots of tournament players have millions in winnings and are also showing a v good profit taking expenses into account over a long period of time. I just dont think marcel luske is one of them. im very willing to believe marcel luske has profited from live tournaments i just think its silly to say he has a huge profit because he was freerolling from a secret sponsorship deal.

edit:im actually not believing that luske has shown a profit in live mtts. im on the fence. he might have or he might not but with $3,409,182 in winnings in 9 years of playing i would be skeptical.

Requiem4adream

No i'm not saying that at all, but sponsorship would cover a % of their outlay, what % that represents im not sure tbh but it's substantial enough to make a difference. It's an irrelevance anyway. "far and away the worst player i have ever seen" is codswallop.

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I would also be very surprised if a sponsorship deal covered expenses aswell.

Me too!!


check your PM's Lloydy

now back OT ffs



....what did you call me???!?!

LuckyLloyd

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