HIIT kicked my ass

Supercell

So I decided to try out HIIT this evening instead of the regular 30 mins incline jog on the treadmill on non weights day (I alternate) as weight loss has plateaued and I think my body has become used to my current workout

So I I gave this a try (on an exercise bike)and I can barely fooking move!!, I almost felt like puking afterwards, no messing. I had to sit down to change out of my socks as I couldn't stand on one leg!!

That was only 4 mins!!

The work up to a full 15 mins by week 8 seems a damn tall order if I'm going to try an maintain that level of intensity - which I guess I what its all about.

I can still barely walk around and I did it about an hour ago!! I'm not very fit, but not a total couch potato either, I'm genuinely shocked how busted up I am.

Does that chart seem realistic in terms of increments?

g'em

LOL!!! HIIT tends to do that alright.

Personally I find a 1:1 (work:rest) ratio too much, and I can't keep doing it week in, week out. I more often see a 1:2 ratio advocated and that's the one I would normally use - 30 sec work with 1 min rest for example.

Supercell

g'em wrote: »

LOL!!! HIIT tends to do that alright.

Personally I find a 1:1 (work:rest) ratio too much, and I can't keep doing it week in, week out. I more often see a 1:2 ratio advocated and that's the one I would normally use - 30 sec work with 1 min rest for example.

I've seen 1:2 mentioned before also and thought that seemed pretty tough. However the masochist in me wanted to see what 1:1 felt like - sore!

I think I might change that around to 2:1 as the minutes go up over the weeks and see how it goes, if 15 mins becomes anyway bearable(unlikely!) I'll kick it back up to 1:1
With the evenings getting longer now am looking forward to it being bright enough to run it outside (I live in the country so there's no streetlights) as the bike is a bit boring even if it only for a a few mins!

g'em

The problem is that it's *very* easy to burn out after HIIT. To begin with, once week should be more than enough, then as your fitness levels increase you can make it twice a week for slightly prolonged periods. But anything over 15-20 minutes is a waste of time, stress will take over and you'll start overtiring and wasting energy.

barnesd

What kind of resistance level do you set the bike on? I've never done HIIT but it just seems mad that 4 minutes can tire you out so badly. I take it it's a good way to burn fat anyway? I think I might try it.

Supercell

g'em wrote: »

The problem is that it's *very* easy to burn out after HIIT. To begin with, once week should be more than enough, then as your fitness levels increase you can make it twice a week for slightly prolonged periods. But anything over 15-20 minutes is a waste of time, stress will take over and you'll start overtiring and wasting energy.

Yep, I think your probably right, will definitely keep this in mind

barnesd wrote: »

What kind of resistance level do you set the bike on? I've never done HIIT but it just seems mad that 4 minutes can tire you out so badly. I take it it's a good way to burn fat anyway? I think I might try it.

Its mostly about intensity for you as the individual doing it, for the 30 seconds of activity it should be at 90% of maximum - thats pretty damn tough to do four times in four minutes with only 30 seconds cool down in between.
Think of it on a running track ...jog reasonable pace of 30 seconds now SPRINT HARD for about ~200 metres (or as far as you can go in 30 seconds), jog for 30 seconds.....now SPRINT HARD for about ~200 metres..jog for thirty seconds..getting the picture?..its no cake walk!

Now scale that up to 15 mins or so and as G'em points out you may be stressing your body so hard the effort becomes counter productive and starts doing you more harm than good which is why I wanted feedback, HIIT isnt for the faint hearted as I discovered this evening.

Leon11

One way I aim to go is do say 100rpms for 20secs move up to 130rpm and then look to drop to 70/80rpm, I'd imagine it'd be a lot easier even if you decided to use different rpm figures. You could start off on say level 10 depending on your fitness etc and then look to just increase the level every 2nd week. After 2months you could be at level 14/15 for 10mins easy.

p.s I've no idea what type of fitness your at so scale it down accordingly to something that pushes you but doesn't leave you feeling as if you wanna puke;)

lindak

I had been looking into this just before I tore the ligaments in my foot. I have also plateaud in my fat loss. I was wonder was this a good HIIt workout ? I did find it hard but I could definatley walk after it . Can you guys tell me if this is sufficient. ? 20 Mins altogether. 60 second @ 3.5mph speed & 1.5 incline then 40 second @ 16mph @ 1.5 incline ? What I took from what i read on the net was that the slow pace was to be just that of a slow walk ? What do people think?

lindak

Just looking at those workouts but maybe I am just having one of those days but what speeds are levels are they suggesting to do ?

kazzer

When I tried HIIT I used a heart rate monitor to determine my intensity. So for example sprinting at 90% of my maximum heart rate, which was predetermined. I was using the Body-for-Life system which I found to be excellent.

Supercell

lindak wrote: »

Just looking at those workouts but maybe I am just having one of those days but what speeds are levels are they suggesting to do ?

The only speed thats right for you is the one that pumps your heart at 90% of max.

In bursts of 30 seconds that's VERY INTENSE effort followed by cool down - basically gasping for breath while still moving slowly before you GO again .

Its damn tough but comes highly recommended, I'm already a bit scared of what i'm going to go through tomorrow night!

kazzer

I certainly sh!t myself when it comes to HIIT time!

Naos

This all sounds very interesting.

Out of curiosity, how would HIIT be incorporated into your cardio training?

Would you do the 4 minutes of HIIT as well as other training on bike/threadmill?
Or is the HIIT enough?

dudara

I gave this a go last night on the bike for 4 minutes. The last one was tough, but I think that I could have done another 1-2 cycles. I could really see the benefits of doing this once a week or so.

g'em

I know HIIT is sometimes thrown around as the "be-all-and-end-all" for fat loss and that irks people, but this thread is a prime example of why it works.

Put all the metabolic and physiological benefits of HIIT aside for a second.

HIIT is short, more people will be able to fit it in. Throwing in a HIIT cycle for 5 minutes at the end of a workout is a lot more do-able than the prospect of 45 minutes jogging.

It's intense. anyone with the 'gym bug' relishes the feeling of a hard session, and the pukey-pukey feeling you get at the end of HIIT reinforces that. You feel, justifiably, that you've worked hard.

It's easily modifiable. You can HIIT on the rower, on the treadmill, on the bike, on a cross-trainer, with dumbbells, with a bar, indoors or out, or using just your bodyweight. Changing it up will stave off boredom.

All things being equal if I was told that to lose x amount of fat I would need to do LIT vs HIT vs HIIT for four weeks, I would choose HIIT above the others without fail.

In the real world, for fat loss I do HIIT once a week with a couple of LIT sessions and 3 days of resistance training. The best strategy to use is the one you'll stick to until your goal is completed.

Aedh Baclamh

So guys, lets take a single week for example. If I was trying to build back up some fitness how should I go about it (bearing in mind I'm totally unfit at the moment)..should I just do HIIT once in the week as a solitary session and have two other days where I do other bits of cardio or how else should I do it?

I pretty much hate running as I don't last very long at it, I just tire so quickly it's embarassing. I do love sprinting however and I can do that many more times than other people (but they can out run me on a longer distance). Strange.

g'em

Aedh Baclamh wrote: »

So guys, lets take a single week for example. If I was trying to build back up some fitness how should I go about it (bearing in mind I'm totally unfit at the moment)..

Well what kind of "fitness" do you want? Do you want to sprint well or be a good middle or long distance runner? Depending on your goal you'll train with that in mind. There's nothing wrong with not being able to run long distances, I'm pretty crap at it too, but a good sprinter. That fits my goals just fine sot hat, to me, is a decent level of acquired fitness.

Throwing in a HIIT session a week is a good all-rounder though.

Aedh Baclamh

Yeah 'fitness' was a little bit vague. I want to get to a level of fitness that will make me compete better in team sports (espeically gaelic football). So this sport requires a good deal of running, be it tracking your opponent for fair distances or just short 2-3 second full out sprints to get out in front of him.

So with that in mind, what's recommended for the days WITHOUT any HIIT? I also intend to get back into lifting some weights but that's for another day.


Thanks.

Aedh Baclamh

Bumpy bump.

dv6

Id also like to see an answer to this question above. On the nights i dont do HIIT would it still be advisable to do the old fashioned LIT for 45mins, crosstrainer, rower etc
Goal is also fitness for Gaelic football, mix of short sharp bursts but also requirement to be able to run for an hour.

DAVE_K

On the days you don't do HIIT i'd do interval training if it's fitness you're after.

Are you training gym or outdoors?

For increasing your fitness you want to be taking your heart rate well up keeping it there for a while, then taking the tempo down and letting it recover. The fitter you get the faster your recovery.

I have a few interval type sessions that work well for me

---

Threadmill

(4 mins at speed 12 and 1 mins speed 15) * 2
(3 mins at speed 12 and 2 mins speed 15) * 2
(2 mins at speed 12 and 3 mins speed 15) * 2
....and if you're still standing
(1 mins speed 12 and 4 mins speed 15) * 2

---

Skipping

5 mins skip - 50 burpees * 6 - 8 times

---

Outdoor running

(400 metre track)

300 metres jog - 100 metres fast run....as many times as you can.

---

Of course you can mix it up whatever way you want but you should get the gist from above

I find that LIT whilst good for fat-loss will only get you so far in fitness terms and after that your fitness plateaus and it becomes easy so much so to the point that I kinda become lazy about it - it's easy to knock out 40 - 50 mins of a jog or whatever....you'll really need that burst where you bring your heart rate up for a period to push your fitness on.

On the other hand however come HIIT day I'm never looking forward to it going down the track (and i find my brain trying to convince me to take the easy option and spend 40 mins running) - it hurts everytime and so it should as your putting max effort in regardless of your fitness level. The beauty of HIIT as well though is it's easy to fit into your schedule.

Why not think about 2 + interval training sessions (as above) a week and 1 HIIT session
Say Monday, Friday Interval training & Wednesday HIIT training.

thirtyfoot

DAVE_K wrote: »

On the days you don't do HIIT i'd do interval training if it's fitness you're after.

.

Probably depends on what you refer to as HIIT and Intervals but are they not the same thing, just different intensity. Recovery needs to be factored in too and constantly doing intervals and (nothing else) may not be best for effective recovery, (although you could say extensive tempo of say 10 x 60m strides as a recovery tool is intervals too!)

I'd be wary of just doing (what I would call) intervals or if doing just intervals be very descriptive of what you call intervals.

Does anyone have descriptions of what LIIT or HIIT are or how they vary - is the I for Intensity not dependent on who is doing the session?

DAVE_K

Probably depends on what you refer to as HIIT and Intervals but are they not the same thing, just different intensity

HIIT requires bursts whereby you're running/cycling/whatever as fast as you possibly can for a short period....this sort of activity works your fast twitch muscle and has the effect that your body is burning calories for many hours afterwards......you cannot do this for long periods of time (or if you can you are not doing it right). I find the best sort of HIIT session to be a

2 mins warm up
(1 min full bore 2 mins not so full on) * 3
2 mins warm down

Intervals as I refer to them are where you're putting in bursts of about 80% your max (for me BPM approx 150)..........this can be kept up for longer periods of time and AFAIK doesn't hit the fast twitch muscle and doesn't have the same impact throughout the rest of the day as would HIIT.

IMO HIIT is not something you could do effectively many times in a week, due to the stress it puts on your body

But yep you're right the I is for intensity.......but the difference in intensity does make HIIT and LIIT a much different thing as the body will react (and recover) much differently to the two.

Patto

I think you need to nail it down better than that Dave K. I think that is what tingle is getting at.

150Hr I would call easy running or LIT. LIT will not place that much stress on your CNS.

Intervals as I call them are at above 90% HR, above 180Hr in my case. I would run between 100-1000m at this intensity, it feels like 75% intensity or effort over 1x100m, it feels like 150% effort when you do 5x1000M. Intervals should be done with full recovery, that is, your HR should go down to 120bpm before starting the next one. Intervals will not place a huge amount of stress on your CNS. That is you would be able to do them again a day or so later.

HIT or HIIT, I never use those phrases, I call these sprints. Things like TABATA spring to mind. That 100% effort over a short period of time with full or partical recovery. From a couple of secs up to one minute effort with at least one for one recovery. You can maintain 100% effort for one minute but you cannot maintain 100% intensity. So, the Intensity and quality of what you are doing will degrade, the same applies to partical recovery. This type of stuff kicks the crap out of your CNS. You will feel profoundly tired for at least 48 hours afterwards, you may get DOMS and your energy levels will be low. You will be burning extra calories, but they come at a price. You can only batter your CNS so much in any given week, weights are also very CNS intensive espiceally if you train to failure or if you are lifting heavy volumes. There is a trade off here, if you do a lot of HIIT your gains in the gym will suffer. Try doing HIIT with DOMS after a lifting session or visa versa and you see see what I mean.

I'll shut up, this is a bit of a hobby horse of mine. My main point In suppose is when it comes to HIIT, it has its place in various forms but don't blindly believe all the hype. You need to know what you are at, there is a real danger of burn out and injury.

DAVE_K

just to clarify where I'm coming from in my above posts. I can be vague at the best of times

LIT - low intensity training - i'd count this as jogging whatever bpm in around the 120 BPM mark. I'd see this as good for fat loss - not too great for fitness.
This is the sort of things i'd do early morning.

LIIT - low intensity interval training - as above but with bursts up around the 150 mark. I'd see this as good for fitness and would base most cardio sessions around this. Most of my cardio work would be of this type

HIIT - high intensity interval training - intervals where the heart rate is up around the 180 BPM mark. Good for fitness, good for fat loss. 1 session of this per week.

Roper

Jaysus.

Acronyms make people sound great!

You're making a very simple issue very confusing lads. HIIT, or whatever they're calling it these days, isn't some new concept, it's just been given a nice acronym and sent out into the fitness world to make someone money and sell website subscriptions.

DAVE_K

Roper - have you anything useful to add to this post?

HIIT, or whatever they're calling it these days, isn't some new concept, it's just been given a nice acronym and sent out into the fitness world to make someone money and sell website subscriptions

Nobody said it was - and what's running/cycling/whatever you arse off got to do with making money? I for one have never paid out for anything HIIT related.

Acronyms are meant for simplicity of reading/writing. Quite similar to the way ye do things over on the self defence forum - MMA/TKD/MT......and just like in SD it is possible to get caught up in what the definition of MMA actually is.

Patto

Oh, Nice come back Dave_K:)

I kinda see where Roper is comming from though and I was the one to throw in the CNS (Central nervous system) one.

I wouldn't use this type of terminology in normal circumstances. If you do then you better be able walk the talk. Generally I would rather just do the walking to be honest and it took a lot of growing up to learn that lesson.

I think this type of debate has its place, with like minded people where people are interested in learning from each other and don't feel like the other person is just trying to show off. On a forum like this where there are a lot of sports science geeks, myself included:o, who are interested in this stuff I think it is appropriate.

Roper

I'm not saying anyone has paid out money here, just that the people who propigate these acronyms and rebrand basic concepts are usually in it to make a buck from rebranding something remarkably simple.

I had never heard of HIIT until we finished a circuit one night and someone said to me "man, the HIIT you do is really hard". I thought he just had terrible grammar.

I agree I think these debates have thir place, but I think if you read back over the last couple of pages you'll see that you're all agreeing with each other, what you're actually arguing about is what to call it. Now THAT is over complicating.

DAVE_K

I think this type of debate has its place, with like minded people where people are interested in learning from each other and don't feel like the other person is just trying to show off. On a forum like this where there are a lot of sports science geeks, myself included, who are interested in this stuff I think it is appropriate.

I totally agree with you there patto.

This subject really interests me (and while no expert on the subject) and i find these posts both informative and enlightening.

While people will say - well this site says this and that site says that - there does happen to be a science underlying the whole subject that i would love to get to the nub of.

Maximising gains from training to me is a very important subject.....I spent too long running at slow jog speed up the road everyday and seeing no gains.

But the original post was "what's the best type of training to combine with HIIT"......what do you guys reckon........patto/roper?

Roper

DAVE_K wrote: »

But the original post was "what's the best type of training to combine with HIIT"......what do you guys reckon........patto/roper?

Do you mean as a part of a HIIT session or what to do along with HIIT as a part of a programme?

DAVE_K

the latter - with HIIT as part of a programme

thirtyfoot

DAVE_K wrote: »

the latter - with HIIT as part of a programme

It will depend on what you are training for. Is it weightloss or fitness for a specific sport, or is it just for whatever you define as fitness ? That determines the type/intensity/length etc of your intervals. No point doing intervals for the sake of it - I saw one marathon program that has this 10sec burst tabata stuff in it, what a waste of time for marathon training, might be dog hard but its serving no purpose to getting around 26 miles as fast as possible. You need to ask what are you training for and is intervals the best way to do that.

My training for long sprint/middle distance (400-800) would involve all "interval" sessions.

One day speed, next speed endurance, then tempo, then hills, circuits. All the intervals are working different energy systems and have different goals. All intervals, all doing very different things, to some elites my intensity would be LIIT, to others HIIT. I know distance guys who belt out 10 x 1k or 5 x 3k because its geared to what they want to achieve, I'd only go as high as maybe 450 or 500m and then rarely. If I wasn't racing and I wanted to stay fit I wouldn't do intervals, too hard and not as relaxing and enjoyable as a long gallop.

Roper

When preparing for competition, given 5 sessions per week, I'd have 4 sports specific sessions and one dedicated conditioning session with HIIT as a cornerstone of it.

From a sporting perspective HIIT or any variation of it is a tool as opposed to an end in itself so much of the whatever we'd be doing would have exercises that at the minimum mimic actual movements required for fighting.

DAVE_K

Tingle

In my posts I was replying to this one from above

Yeah 'fitness' was a little bit vague. I want to get to a level of fitness that will make me compete better in team sports (espeically gaelic football). So this sport requires a good deal of running, be it tracking your opponent for fair distances or just short 2-3 second full out sprints to get out in front of him.

So with that in mind, what's recommended for the days WITHOUT any HIIT? I also intend to get back into lifting some weights but that's for another day.

I still reckon 40 min runs with bursts of speed would be good here

thirtyfoot

DAVE_K wrote: »

Tingle

In my posts I was replying to this one from above



I still reckon 40 min runs with bursts of speed would be good here

A good running session for GAA would be 'fartlek' - a session thats been around for years, think its Swedish (or finnish) for 'speed play'. Many variations of it but I think its best when you have a structure to it, say 2 mins up, 3mind down, 90 secs up 2 mins down etc etc. Some people just go out and run for 30 mins and run/walk/jog/sprint when they see fit or its best if you can do with someone of similar fitness and then just go out and test yourself, one guy dictate pace changes for 10mins then swap and so on, this way it is very much simulating the running exertion in a game as you can never control in a game when you will have to run/walk/job/sprint.