Computer Games Development

jakedixon2004

Does anyone here know what the Computer games development course is like

Kiith

Its supposed to be a good course, but heavy (and i mean like a 800lb fat chick heavy) on the maths. One of the guys i know in Carlow is doing it, and he said that, as its such a new course, it can be a bit broken at times, but overall he likes it.

Genghiz Cohen

I'm 3rd year of the games course. It's very hard, if you suck at maths think about it very carefully. First year isn't too bad at all, but the shít hits the fan in 2nd year because the concepts get mind numbing, and the workload doesn't help at all.

3rd year is a little better, but the work load is enormous, we have to go on work exp. in march and we have had 2 big massive smelly projects (2 man groups) to do since the start of the year, only one of which is getting finished to the standard we set at the start.

The course is supposed to be backed by Microsoft, but all we have seen of that is the 10, 3 year old Alienware machines that the 4th years are using. Microsoft said they would take all the 3rd years for the work experience, they had to be begged to take one person last year, and are taking two this year.

Don't believe for a minute that all you will be doing is playing games, while you do get to play a few, the majority of the course is learning a language called 'C' and it's bigger brother 'C++' (C-Plus-Plus). It is one of the most powerful, fastest languages in use today and any games development company worth it's salt uses it or a very close relative of it.

Simple C code:

#include <stdio.h> 

void main(void)
{
    cout<<"hello, world"<<endl;
}

"#include <stdio.h>" means include the standard input/output library, this lets the computer understand keywords that you use.

"void main(void)" is the 'Main Function', every C or C++ program has one main function, it is where the computer starts and finishes reading the code, you can re-direct the computer (this bit is a little advanced so don't worry about it), but it will always return to the main function to finish. The computer starts at the '{' and finishes at the '}', everything must occur within those brackets.

"cout<<"hello, world"<<endl;"
cout (C-Out) is a keyword that will tell the computer to print to screen anything after this and before the next ';'. So it will try to print '<<"hello, world"<<endl'.

"hello world" is a sentence, called a string in most programming languages. Nothing more than that.

"endl" (End-L)This tells the computer to go to a new line just like the enter key in MS Word, and some other fancy stuff we wont get into.

"<<" These attach the text on the left to the text on the right, sort of....
' "hello, world"<<endl ' attaches a endl to the end of the string 'hello world'
' cout<<"hello, world" ' attaches all that to the the cout function, so the computer will print "hello world" and then move to a new line ready to print another string or whatever.


Microsoft has released the XNA Game Studio, with it you can make a game using 'C#'(C-Sharp) -a safer version of C- and release it for XBOX 360 and the PC without having to write the code twice, read up on that, I can see it being used more in a few years.



Overall it's a pretty good course, fairly hard, but I really don't want to do anything else.

Do some reading on C and C++ and if you like it and are good at maths then this is a great course.

jakedixon2004

I am familiar with c++ and am trying to learn it at the moment
when u say hard maths are we talking about honour maths or will ordinary do?

Ivan

From what I've read and heard of the course, I think we're talking Applied Maths/Honours Maths preferred but if you are willing to put in the effort, you should be good either way...

Genghiz Cohen

I started the course with like a B in ordinary maths, I've scraped through 1st and 2nd year maths, just barely..


We did a lot of this in first year. I don't have access to the notes anymore so the Wiki article looks close enough.

This is 3rd year stuff, so it might be a bit scary(it still is for me ).
A .doc file containing stuff on Particle Kinematics#


EDIT: If you do take applied maths for the LC or whatever, second year will be all repetition; differentiation and integration and the like.

Myxomatosis

Your level of maths in secondary school will really bare little influence in how you find the maths in any college course.

Genghiz Cohen

Myxomatosis wrote: »

Your level of maths in secondary school will really bare little influence in how you find the maths in any college course.

You'd think that, I did, but we did differentiation in 5th year, didn't pay much attention, more the fool me.

The maths in secondary school is there to help you to get used to working out problems. If you can't do it in secondary school, you have less of a chance of passing the subject in college, although the 'Retention Center' is a nice little setup, 2/3 guys are there to specifically help with the maths side of first year (and I hear they will expand to second year maths too).

Schism

Myxomatosis wrote: »

Your level of maths in secondary school will really bare little influence in how you find the maths in any college course.

I did honours maths in the leaving cert and the first few chapters up until christmas was mostly stuff I had done before in secondary school. It did get a lot harder pretty quickly though

jakedixon2004

I never knew it would be that hard ,
Is there any physics in the course?

woodyg

It's very full on stuff all right 2 of the lectures that set up the course went through it with me when they were going to launch it and there is quite a lot of Maths involved with some serious stuff as Genghiz Cohen has said.

The 1st year is not to bad after that its full on real intense stuff but not unexpected for the type of course.

If you have any question contact the head of the course he's a sound bloke and will help yea out.

Genghiz Cohen

jakedixon2004 wrote: »

Is there any physics in the course?

Not until 2nd year, in first year it's all about the maths of moving things in 3D space, second year you get into acceleration and gravity and collisions and stuff.

jakedixon2004

What other languages do u use in the course because im not very fond of c or c++

Psycopat

c sharp.

we didnt do any java, dos or anything like that only the c's

Genghiz Cohen

This year we have done a little Ruby, it's very high level (Easier but slower and you don't have as much control), it's a nice language and can be done in a very C like syntax if you like.

If you're not too fond of C you might be in a little trouble though.

jakedixon2004

Ya i kind of knew that i would need c
is there any tutorials online that would help me understand it because i dot have a clue where to start i bought a book but it doesnt help very much

I was looking into ruby lately is it as hard as c or easier

RedXIII

Although it would be cool going into 1st year know C/C++ it isnt nessesery. First year is fairly handy although saying that not quite impossible to fail.

Pretty much everyone in the course are deadly gamer types, and i personally dont think having this / or that in secondry school really makes a differance, because in my opinion if you get into the course and have a great interest in it,
everything is manageble as long as your will to put in time and effort (cant speak for anything past 2nd year mind you :P)

As mr cohen pointed out, yes there is a reality check in 2nd year, i i think pretty much everyone decides whether or not its worth the effort then.

Anything else... hmm carlow's a deadly place , lectur's are pretty cool, and i like the campus. I wouldn't worry about the maths or programming to much either, because im pretty sure they still do free weekly grinds 1on1 or in small groups in 1st yr. but if someone could confirm that me pls Then theres usually tutorials on with joe or maybe ross who are two super guys.

Just thought i'd give you my opinion dude, i was in a pretty similar situation as yourself, the course sounded brilliant, ive always wanted to work in the games industry and just thinking about making games sort of set my mind on the course. Even though i eventually dropped out, im pretty glad i went there for many reasons

Red

(if this post is all the place sorry really tired :S)

Overheal

Wow its like a GDC reunion in here...

Like my seniors here have all said, the work is tough and the best practice still wont help you as much if you aren't into the course. Making a game seems simple at first, but gradually you begin to grasp the scope and the ridiculous hundreds of man-years that go into making commercial games. With all the modules you have to learn in the course, it scary to think we dont get any 2 or 3 year certs: its 4 years or nothing. In the industry you will hopefully know a lot of everything you are told: afaik, nothing in the course is optional - you either pass it or you fail.

Hey whilst you're all here I heard something about last years work placement: apparently the place that accepted everyone last year won't be accepting anyone at all this year? Or so I've heard... that the 3rd years weren't up to the pace of what they were expecting, or something to that effect.

Dixon I can't remember links to any good online sources, but the book 'C++: a beginners guide' is very useful.

As for other helpful information: The compiler we've been using is Microsoft Visual Studio 2005. We have so far (2nd years) coded for basic C++ apps, OpenGL 2D/3D, and the TL-Engine; as well as having used the Torque engine and Macromedia Flash Professional. If you're up to our mad haxxor skills these items should be very easy to come across if you want to have a first glance.

jakedixon2004

thanks for the info lads
i cant wait until i get started

Genghiz Cohen

jakedixon2004 wrote: »

Ya i kind of knew that i would need c
is there any tutorials online that would help me understand it because i dot have a clue where to start i bought a book but it doesnt help very much

I was looking into ruby lately is it as hard as c or easier

This here seems okay, I only had a quick glance through it, mind.

Ruby is so easy it's hard, honestly.....
The major problem I had with it is that there are so many ways of doing easy things in it, it gets really confusing at times. I really wouldn't worry about it, you get a crash course in it in 3rd year, but not before that. Just be aware that there are no data types in ruby.

You don't need to be an expert programmer in C before you go into the course, I had never seen a line of code before I started and I found it fine.

We really only stick to C++ for all the heavy projects, so you don't need to learn a million and one languages. Especally not Java (which I call C for 'Tards), no company in their right mind would use Java as their primary language, but some do so maybe a quick gloss over it, and I stress the maybe bit.

Finally, learn to fear the name Torque, we were forced to use this abomination of a game engine for this year. It defies description, it is just so bad, and people pay $150 for it and seem to love it, I pity them really.
A class mate has taken a personal vendetta against it and is trying to get the directors to move over to a better free(For non commercial use OFC) engine that seems to out match Torque at every turn.
I have done a little artwork and modified the Garage Games logo(Creators of that thing), see if you can spot what I changed....

jakedixon2004

Thanks for all the info
It says on ur profile that u are from Galway is there many others from there with u in Carlow

Genghiz Cohen

A few, by a few I mean like 5.
There are 2 colleges in Galway so there isn't a lot reason for people to take a 3 hour bus trip to carlow.... like me.....

jakedixon2004

Well I am choosing between Waterford and Carlow at the moment and 3 hours does not sound that bad

Genghiz Cohen

Not if you don't get car sick if you try to read or anything. I just need to update my MP3 player.

RedXIV

I'm in 3rd year of this course, and i'll give you the one bit of advice on this course that will make or break you. GO TO CLASS!!!! everyone says first year is handy stuff, which it is because for the first year, everyone's going to most of their classes. I became very lazy in second year and had the worst time trying to claw my way back for the end of the year exams. and believe me, if you don't have a knack for the stuff you're doing, clawing it back won't happen.

While doing research before you get here can't be a bad thing, it is no where near necessary to pass. Most of us were unfamiliar with code before we came and everything you need is taught to you. but like i said, that only applies if you go to class!!!!!!

Just so you understand that this course is no walk in the park, we had 60+ in 1st year, in 3rd year now and we have 13 i think. with more looking unlikely to survive. not trying to scare ya but those that left DIDN'T GO TO CLASS!!!!!

jakedixon2004

lets say i went into the course knowing c and understanding the basics of networking would that be alot of the course covered
Also.. do ye get a workplacement during the year

Drucifer

Any knowledge of C++ or networking definately wont hurt your prospects.



And just to back up what red1V... you actually do have to go to your lectures and labs. Everyone is gonna tell you that everyone has already told and try to back it up, saying that those other people are right and all that...I smoked my brains out in 2nd year and played poker about 9 hours a day while sleeping from 7am to 6pm instead...


I'm on the dole right now... Nuf said.


Are ye guys getting screwed for work placement yeah? hows things? Was gonna come up for rag week and that but money is a joke. :-)

Crave still there?

Where did cw131 go? i know it moved but to what address? (<3 in advance genghiz)

Overheal

Crave's just called Liam now. Ooooh..... or whatever name he took I cant ****in remember.

oh yeah, ZeroDuality... Im not sure why.

Didnt have a big week myself but this weekend the Gardai started putting up notice: Carlow Town is going CCTV, so I imagine it was too good a week for some.

RealistSpy

Would I survive the games course. I have rubish at everything except programming and maths if I try. I have been programming since 4th year High School. VB,HTML,Phyton and and Still learning C++, Am in plc at the moment. I was short 10 point last year "raging" but now I have the software development in mind.

Is the gamesdevelopment close to the software dev?

Overheal

IF you have any of the Software Engineering skills about you (OOP, UML) and can get your head around a lot of the math and physics then you might have a shot. The math is what'll get you in the end if not the Engineering principles.

In comparison Games dev has much more to do with Graphics and Physics than any other software related course. VB and HTML, Im not sure how much use those are here.

RedXIV

If you are a competent programmer, regardless what language it's in before you come in, you have a HUGE advantage before you enter this course. The first year is aimed not only at teaching C++, C and C# but also how to think like a programmer and solve problems like one. This idea is carried on through the years so if you already know it, you're laughing.

Maths and Physics are a difficult part of the course but if you were good at them in school, you'll be grand in college. just go to your classes and you'll be passing at least.

games dev is along the same lines as software dev but ours is a bit more intense. we specialize in one of the toughest software industries in the world and that emphasis is rarely forgotten in classes.

For jakedixon2004, yes we have a work placement system but at the moment it's still a joke, places are ridiculously hard to come by and i'd honestly suggest start organising it in 2nd year (placement is the end of 3rd).
also, networking isn't really covered till 3rd and 4th year so you have alot of other stuff to worry about before you get there

Overheal

How do you reccomend we start scouting for our work placement Red?

RedXIV

best off if ya have a contact from a company, otherwise it's a pretty horrible process. I had a contact but it fell through and i'm in the process of basically annoying every game development country i can find (and i mean all over the globe) and asking them to take me on. Overheal, if you have american citizenship, i can give you an email address of a company that would more than likely take ya on next year in Reno

jakedixon2004

holy ****:eek:
i never knew that we would have to go as far as America to get a job

RedXIV

you don't HAVE to go to america. but i'm not gonna lie to ya, it's ten times easier to get an intership over there. there's only two companies in ireland taking interships from us this year, microsoft and popcap games. admittidly vivendi and activision are taking people but the college requirements are only BARELY satisfied with these two companies due to their contract length of only 3 months

jakedixon2004

what about Havok in dublin ... they make physics engines ...that is what u do in that course is it not

Overheal

Havok physics are quite far past what you would be expected to do in our course. In fact they'd be just as interested in hiring physicists.

Reno sounds like a hoot

jakedixon2004

so we dont get to make physics engines?
Would a company such as THQ or EA ever be interested in hiring us 4 the work placemant

Genghiz Cohen

I suppose, they would have in-house/bought physics engines, so you dont need to worry about physics or anything.

RealistSpy

So why would I do that course If I will end up with no job? answer me this Software development or System Management course? I don't know what to pick. My cao is gone but I can still change my course.

Overheal

The good ones end up with a job. Im currently entering a Games Development contest known as dare to be digital - entering such things is generally where companies will do their scouting from. I could even win a BAFTA... *cough* but thatll probably never happen because they let the asians enter >_>

a job is not going to be handed to you on this one. Its like an arts course: during the 4 years you will build up a portfolio of work and based on that you will get jobs: not so much the degree itself though it helps. Entering competitions greatly helps your profile and thats what im at.

Renegade_Archer

For all you prospective interns, don't forget about Demonware, based in Dublin. They're owned by Activision, so good opportunities abound...

Genghiz Cohen

Activision are looking at CVs as we speak.