rdl/sldl weight and rep range advised?

maradona10

what % of deadlift 1 rep max should the romanian deadlift and straight leg deadlift be performed with and what rep range for these exercises is advised?

Malteaser!

How long is a piece of string?

I know Hanley had great success working with about 50-55% of his deadlift max on SLDL's for sets of 15 as an assitance exercise after squats. I'm going the same now.

Afaik around 75-85% of your max on RDL's for sets of 6-8 is a good target too.

EileenG

For what it's worth, I find I can use the same weight for bench press and sldl.

maradona10

thanks for the replies.

im just concerned about the possibility of injury with these exs

is it not very risky to be using heavy weights in these exs considering the position of the back?

Leon11

with the rdl you shouldn't be using your back or arms to lower the weight down. Your bum should push back and the bar will fall naturally, think of it as push your bum as far back as possible and rise your shoulders as quickly as possible. The only place I feel it is in the hamstring and glutes to an extent.

As for the stiff leg version I've no idea how to do them properly so won't offer advice.

Colm_OReilly

Let's remember that Hanley is an intermediate/advanced lifter, in terms of adaptation anyway and needs assistance exercises to increase his lifts for competition.

I'd still like to hear g'em and Hanley's thoughts on these lifts, where they add them in, what frequency etc.

I'm always somewhat bemused when someone avoid deads for risk of injury when strengthening your back is likely to reduce injuries in other activities. Usually, these are the same people involved in soccer, gaa and rugby - which are far more likely to cause injury.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Let's remember that Hanley is an intermediate/advanced lifter, in terms of adaptation anyway and needs assistance exercises to increase his lifts for competition.

I'd still like to hear g'em and Hanley's thoughts on these lifts, where they add them in, what frequency etc.

I'm always somewhat bemused when someone avoid deads for risk of injury when strengthening your back is likely to reduce injuries in other activities. Usually, these are the same people involved in soccer, gaa and rugby - which are far more likely to cause injury.

Besides which, any exercise done improperly can cause injury, not just deadlifts. its funny though, even some guys who I'd view as pretty advanced are very wary of deads.

rubadub

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Besides which, any exercise done improperly can cause injury, not just deadlifts. its funny though, even some guys who I'd view as pretty advanced are very wary of deads.

That is true, though the incidence of injury in weightlifting is meant to be far lower compared to other exercise activities/sports. I used to worry more doing deadlifts and squats, not so much anymore. Weights have a bad rep for injuries which is pretty unfounded. I think it might be that sporting injuries are seen purely as "accidents", while lifting too much weight is like "you brought it on yourself".

Thing is nearly all my mates do have injuries from GAA & soccer, someone nearly always has a dodgy leg or hand when I see them. Now I am fitter more people are asking me if I want to play footie etc, I never do though, for fear of injury. I dont view injuries in GAA as accidents, I see them as part of the game, you should expect them to happen. I dont even run for fear of injury, and since I have no real need to run in daily life.

I cycle which can be dangerous, and lately I have been using a mountain bike more since it is slower and hence safer, and safer going on dodgy roads.

We (me and the other non-sporty mates) used to be always slagging the mates who did GAA "to stay fit", the feckers were always limping around with injuries, fit my arse!

g'em

maradona10 wrote: »

what % of deadlift 1 rep max should the romanian deadlift and straight leg deadlift be performed with and what rep range for these exercises is advised?

Well the first thing I'd ask is why are you using these exercises? Is it as a substitution for regular deads? If so, you're a little misplaced.

RDL's and SLDL's are great for hamstring development and hip activitation, but for sheer strength and power output you they can't overtake the deadlift.

Just like Malteaser! has advised, those rep and set ranges given are about right, and I'd tend to think of SLDLs as an assistance exercise rather than a core one also.

maradona10 wrote:

is it not very risky to be using heavy weights in these exs considering the position of the back?

I'd never go for 1RMs or anything liek that with these exercises, the only time I test that is with the big three. These are exercises that you really use to aid and assist you to either squat, DL or both so there's not really a need to be lifting super-heavy at all. With the RDLs particularly it's ok to maintain natural curvature in the back, and keeping it rod straight can lead to injury. In fact I'd hazard a aguess that it's easier to get DLs right from the start than it is to get RDL form down.

As with all back-dominant exercises though, a sore lower back generally means an overworked back and underused hips. If you find yourself repeatedly getting a tired, fatigued back with weight that by rights you should be more than capable of lifting, perhaps look at hamstring strength and flexibility (ham stretches like bird-dogs and supine bridges and exercises like SLDLs and narrow stance lunges - incidentally I consider SLDLs as leg exercises, not back exercises?).

Does that even make sense? It sounded much clearer in my head

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

I'm always somewhat bemused when someone avoid deads for risk of injury when strengthening your back is likely to reduce injuries in other activities. Usually, these are the same people involved in soccer, gaa and rugby - which are far more likely to cause injury.

I know from time to time I avoid doing them as they leave my legs in bits for days and as I train in martial arts my kicking and stretching is severly affected.

BossArky

rubadub wrote: »

I dont even run for fear of injury, and since I have no real need to run in daily life.

I can see where you are coming from with the rest of your post, however I think the part above in bold is just wrong.

What is next, you won't see the need to walk in a few more years?!

I would consider running one of the most natural and necessary modes of transport. It may not be necessary 100% of the time, but is definetly something to have ready for the one time it is needed.

What happens if you were with your gf/wife/granny and her handbag was nicked by a 16 year old scobe? Would you stand there and accept it or chase him/her down and get the bag back?

What about running for the bus / train /shop before closing?

rubadub

BossArky wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from with the rest of your post, however I think the part above in bold is just wrong.

What is next, you won't see the need to walk in a few more years?!

I see where you are coming from too. I really mean I take part in no sports where it is needed, like soccer etc. I cycle everywhere, or walk if I can. I reckon I can still run faster than the average scumbag, or average lad on the street, even though I do not train for it. I can still run for a bus, but am usually on my bike, if I miss it I will walk, so am probably better off

On a quiet sunday I want to go to town to a certain shop I can close my door and be there in 35mins on a bike, about 50mins in a car (including parking and the walk to the shop) and probably 90mins on a bus (including walk to bus stop, wait for bus, walk from bus). If it is rush hour forget about the car or bus!, add an extra 30-45mins to those times, while the bike is the same.

Cycling really is a lot faster in dublin these days, especially when you tot up the real complete times of journeys.

I remember when I was overweight I could still run faster than some mates who did a bit of running- adrenaline can be very powerful when needed!

Running is still the best option in a fight, even though I probably could kick the tar out of the average lad, I would still probably get a dig in the process, adrenaline will see me clear.:)

maradona10

Gem im not using them as a replacement for deads. i want to use them on my Hyp days so they can assist my deadlift but mainly improve my hamstrings and lower back.

I use deads for 1-3 rep days. i dont like using deads for high reps as my form deteriorates

Malteaser!

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Let's remember that Hanley is an intermediate/advanced lifter, in terms of adaptation anyway and needs assistance exercises to increase his lifts for competition.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. Are you saying that even though Hanley has had good results with them they might not be suitable for the OP because he's not a powerlifter??

As stated by the OP, he's looking to increase his deadlift. I would have thought since this is one of the core goals of powerlifting, then doing specific exercises to increase the lift would be a good idea??

Maradonna10 has also stated that he wants to increase his hamstring and lower back deveolpment, so again RDL's and SLDL's would be a good choice. The impressino I got from reading this was that you're suggesting Maradonna10 DOESN'T follow Hanley's advice even tho it's something he's found to work.

Granted the same things don't work for everybody, but to dismiss (or caution against) what Hanley has done is a bit bizarre considering it's one of the few posts in this thread that has actually shown results.

Having just re-read your post it could also be interpreted to mean the OP doesn't neccessarily need to do these exercises to increase his deadlift. Maybe you can clarify?

I'm sure Hanley will respond to this whenever he gets back on here.

Colm_OReilly

You hit the point right at the end there.

Judging off the OP's previous posts and PMs, he's still a novice lifter. Novice here is defined by the fact that he can recover enough between workouts to keep increasing the weight and make linear progress on his lifts.

Intermediate/Advanced lifters like Hanley & g'em (and other competitive powerlifters, not recreational ones) are at the stage whereby they need assistance exercises because

A) Relative weaknesses in their major lifts have developed and need to be corrected to advance their PRs
They're lifting weights that their body cannot repair from adequately between training sessions, so they sub RDLs,SLDLs, rack pulls, halting deads because their bodies can recover from them and still make progress.

(For clarification, I don't know Hanley's or g'em's programs, I'm drawing conclusions based on their competition experience and from knowledge of other intermediate lifters. Intermediate is defined as someone who can no longer make linear gains with their lifts, so needs to change his program. An advanced lifter hit's PRs/increases even further apart. I know these are fuzzy definitions but I don't have the source to hand atm)

What happens with the majority of exercises out there is they are designed by advanced lifters who need them, or are used by physios to isolate muscles for rehab. People see these movements and think that if the professionals are using them, they must be beneficial and they proliferate down to the average joe in the globogym.

Most people never hit a high inter/advanced training. Why would they, they're not competitive lifters. Sure, they'll plateau eventually and need to move on to a different program to advance, but no where near the periodised nature as dictated by a competition schedule.

I use deads for 1-3 rep days. i dont like using deads for high reps as my form deteriorates

This concerns me. Form can break down at any rep range, depending on the load (I know I've had some shockingly ugly 1RM). I'd still advise working different rep schemes, lowering the weight and getting the form down on them as well.

Hope this helps,
Col

rubadub

Malteaser! wrote: »

As stated by the OP, he's looking to increase his deadlift.

Maradona10- can you confirm this is what you actually want? your goal is to be able to deadlift more weight? for single or low reps?
I didn't pick up that exact goal, no exact goal really.

Personally I lift to build muscle in order to increase my metabolism, so basically the goal is to still eat & drink what I want and not be fat. Hanley can lift a lot and is in competition, he is also in a weight division though. I expect most powerlifters are training for max strength at a minimum size, so they can make the weight division. That is not for me, I would want max muscle, I am at a stage where I am happy with how strong I am- for daily functional strength.
So I might not mind looking like a powerlifter, but will not specifically train like one. Same goes for bodybuilders- sure they train for big muscles, but it is also for definition of particular groups, symmetry etc, they might be doing all sorts of weird isolation exercises to get some little bump somewhere- so again I will not copy their routine, but will take some parts out of it. I am really looking for the max muscle development for the lowest workout time, the most efficient way of building muscle per effort, so will try and hit big muscle groups with compound lifts. I also tend to do ones I enjoy more.

I remember on some forum, perhaps here- a lad wanting to look like a particular UFC fighter, and someone posted the UFC guys actual workout. But the guy only wanted to look like him, not fight like him. The UFC is all about weight divisions too, so this guy might be training specifically NOT to add size. This might not suit a beginner well, who wants to gain size.

There are also presumptions made in the cycling forum, most experienced posters there are competitive cyclists, who value max speed and endurance. So they advise to get racers or hybrid bikes over mountain bikes. While if you cycle any old route, not commuting, but solely to burn calories- then a mountain bike might be better for you. It is safer, since it is slower, and more able to take bumps and potholes, while a racer might collapse hitting them. It is also generally going to last longer for the same money. It will last more miles due to stronger components, which is compounded by the fact you cycle less miles to burn the same calories.

Like the thread on isotonic drinks- a premiership player might benefit from them. Many lads I know play soccer to lose weight, for fun, don't care about winning that much, so a lucozade is not really helping their goals.

maradona10

Rubadub, im training 6 nights per week with football team. 3 weight sessions and 3 running/team sessions.

i am looking to improve my hamstring and lower back strength/flexibility which will help my deadlift but also my football/running conditioning. this is my weakest area

that is why I am interested in the rdl/sldl exercises