Jean-Marie Le Pen to come to give a speech in UCD!!??

briantwin

I was talking to a French friend of mine and he was saying that this fascist d8ckhead is planning to come to Ireland to give a speech in UCD. The thing that shocked me most is that he's been invited to come over. I think this is one of the most God awful ideas since we allowed the suggestion to build a motorway through the hill of Tara. I mean things are already tense enough when it comes to ethnic integration without this vile swine of a man coming over here and spreading his hatred. He is going to come here and warn any fool with a brain small enough to listen that the reason Ireland's economy is slowing down is foreigners. He'll try and insinuate that we'd be better off without any foreigners and to start implementing measures to make sure that our unique nationality is not tarnished by "outsiders". Just wondering if anyone else had heard this and what others opinions of this are?? If this is actually going to go ahead I will be outside the venue protesting!! The man is lower than low,a closed minded malcontent who's misgivings of others have fueled a bloody campaign of racism and violence across France. He's too arrogant to admit that any of the social issues that plague France are actually anything to do with French people and blames immigrants for a piss poor economy and high unemployment. Don't let that happen here!! :mad::mad:

Jesus Wept

Arrogant, French?
Surely not. :rolleyes::D

kf1920

As far as i know, UCD put a stop to it

The Society weren't too happy,

Freedom of speech etc, they said they were trying to allow both sides of the argument be presented which seems fair.

briantwin

Glad to hear that it didn't go ahead! I mean its one thing to say lets hear both sides of the argument, but you're talking about listening to a man who paid some of his party members to go into predominantly ethnic areas and incite violence and riots to give credence to his anti-immigrant hate spiel during his first run for President 8 years ago. Would you really want to hear his side of any argument??

FunkZ

The-Rigger wrote: »

Arrogant, French?
Surely not. :rolleyes::D

+1 :cool:

Terry

Moved from AH.

beanyb

This reminds me of that classic quote from the riot a few years back when Justin Barrett was at an L&H debate.

"No free speech for fascists."

Red Alert

If you truly value free speech you will defend your opponent's right to free speech as you have, and will use your argument to dissuade or ridicule him/her. There are plenty of austensibly free-speech people in UCD but mention stuff that they'd prefer not to talk about and suddenly the free-speech word is forgotten.

OP if you are that enraged at JMLeP why didn't you come to the debate and make an eejit out of him?

Breezer

briantwin wrote: »

I was talking to a French friend of mine and he was saying that this fascist d8ckhead is planning to come to Ireland to give a speech in UCD. The thing that shocked me most is that he's been invited to come over. I think this is one of the most God awful ideas since we allowed the suggestion to build a motorway through the hill of Tara. I mean things are already tense enough when it comes to ethnic integration without this vile swine of a man coming over here and spreading his hatred. He is going to come here and warn any fool with a brain small enough to listen that the reason Ireland's economy is slowing down is foreigners. He'll try and insinuate that we'd be better off without any foreigners and to start implementing measures to make sure that our unique nationality is not tarnished by "outsiders". Just wondering if anyone else had heard this and what others opinions of this are?? If this is actually going to go ahead I will be outside the venue protesting!! The man is lower than low,a closed minded malcontent who's misgivings of others have fueled a bloody campaign of racism and violence across France. He's too arrogant to admit that any of the social issues that plague France are actually anything to do with French people and blames immigrants for a piss poor economy and high unemployment. Don't let that happen here!! :mad::mad:

These aren't usually the type of people who frequent L & H debates at UCD. Personally I think if he's allowed stand for election in France he should be allowed to speak here. It doesn't mean I agree with him and I'd be very happy to see his arguments defeated by logic and reason.

Anyway, this news is 2 weeks old...

Stepherunie

A motion was put before Council to stop LaPen attending (who it should be pointed out had not confirmed he would attend) and was heavily defeated.

However it should further be pointed out that as far as I'm aware UCD did not stop his attendance - his passport was revoked.

And OP if you believe so much in democracy and what's right, whether or not you agree with LaPen, then the argument to not let him attend on the basis of what he believes in is a flawed one.

Oh and it was a Lawsoc debate, not L&H

Breezer

Stepherunie wrote: »

Oh and it was a Lawsoc debate, not L&H

Whatever. The point still stands. Smartarse rads...

briantwin

I think that in Irelands current situation i dont believe letting that man into the country would be anything but a mistake. There are a growing number of Irish people who would be swayed easily by this mans way of thinking, im not saying that they are fascists but to give the man a platform to voice any of his opinions would really be playing with fire. How many times have you heard someone complaining about "them foreigners etc etc etc". I'm not saying these people are guaranteed to become fascists but its an easier option to blame someone else especially immigrants when it comes to social issues like unemployment, housing issues, strained health care systems and over expenditure of the national budget on people who in his opinion "dont belong here". Now would be the worst possible time for any kind of surge in people thinking this way as its become more clear that economic uncertainty seems sure to cause hardship to more and more Irish families. The last thing we need to do is spawn a generation of little Adolfs!!!

Stepherunie

Ok firstly paragraph better - so hard to read that!

Right we can blame others - we can listen to what LaPen has to say and we can debate in a good and open forum and show him what we believe.

It was set to be a DEBATE, it is not a free platform to speak unendingly on what he believes. He was asked to speak in the context of the updated Nice Treaty.

This was not just an invite to him to speak, it was to challenge and discuss the Nice treaty, it was not one sided, there would be speakers both for and against.

And yes - there may be a problem with those things being said but personally I've never heard them - I hear far more people criticising the government. Should be ban any political speeches at all so that people don't start blaming the government for the woes of the country...

I mean many believe them to be overpaid underworking people.

imp

IIRC the College Tribune said last week that he'd decided to turn down the invitation due to all the negative publicity its been getting in the press but that he said he still might come to Ireland to campaign closer to the referendum.

Stepherunie

imp wrote: »

IIRC the College Tribune said last week that he'd decided to turn down the invitation due to all the negative publicity its been getting in the press but that he said he still might come to Ireland to campaign closer to the referendum.

Yeah I couldn't remember the details...

I know there was discussion at the debate at Council that his passport may be revoked over something or other.

pretty*monster

briantwin wrote: »

I think that in Irelands current situation i dont believe letting that man into the country would be anything but a mistake. There are a growing number of Irish people who would be swayed easily by this mans way of thinking, im not saying that they are fascists but to give the man a platform to voice any of his opinions would really be playing with fire. How many times have you heard someone complaining about "them foreigners etc etc etc". I'm not saying these people are guaranteed to become fascists but its an easier option to blame someone else especially immigrants when it comes to social issues like unemployment, housing issues, strained health care systems and over expenditure of the national budget on people who in his opinion "dont belong here". Now would be the worst possible time for any kind of surge in people thinking this way as its become more clear that economic uncertainty seems sure to cause hardship to more and more Irish families. The last thing we need to do is spawn a generation of little Adolfs!!!

Yeah, people need to be protected from dissenting voices. :rolleyes:

I'm so tired of hearing this argument. Either you can trust people to hear both sides of the issue be intelligent enoughh to usually chose the more or less right path or you can;t, in which case liberal democracy is a crock of **** anyway and you should just addmit that you would rather we were rulesd by some sort of benevolent liberal intelligenci.

Immigration is an issue that has to be dealt with and like it or not far right anti-immigration parties and politician exist and people will become aware of them. Now, is it better that they are allowed to speak in a forum where their opinions can be questioned and argued against or should we pretend that we can ignore them, thus leaving them to build up support under their own steam away from those who would point out the (fairly big)flaws in their argument?

Umaro

He's perfectly entitled to come to UCD and argue his points. It's only by trying to silence people like him that we make them stronger and give rise to extremists who seem themselves as the "persecuted" ones.

UCD is run by retards at every level though, so this doesn't surprise me.

passive

Bloody Frenchies...

Sangre

The-Rigger wrote: »

Arrogant, French?
Surely not. :rolleyes::D

Yeah, fúcking French, they're all a bunch of arrogant xenophobes.

Raphael

Damn cheese eating surrender monkies should just go home to Frenchland!

Sangre

bunch of baguette <UN-PC term>s

boneless

Just a wee point... if you give freedom of speech to a party which advocates hate, don't be surprised if that party gains power- by whichever means, either fair or foul (remember that Hitler was elected into office)- they will deny that basic right to you.

Personally, I would deny a platform to a fascist on this basis.

Red Alert

But by denying him a platform to speak you're making him the 'forbidden fruit'. Anything that makes him different from the average joe-sope speaker straight away says that there's something interesting about the guy. Let the people make their own minds up - why should UCD's politically correct admin politburo decide what we will listen to?

Bubs101

I was pretty pissed off he wasn't allowed speak here. He'd certainly be one of the highest profile and calibre of political speakers we would have had. The same people who heckled Michael McDowell when he was here and have probably stopped him from speaking here are the ones who raised all this fuss against Le Pen despite the fact that alot of people in the College have more against that party then the speakers (me included).

Brimmy

boneless wrote: »

Just a wee point... if you give freedom of speech to a party which advocates hate, don't be surprised if that party gains power- by whichever means, either fair or foul (remember that Hitler was elected into office)- they will deny that basic right to you.

Personally, I would deny a platform to a fascist on this basis.

You're wrong there, Hitler wasn't elected into office. He was elected into cabinet and then worked the system to get into office, there is a huge difference in that he never got a majority to be leader he was just smart enough to get it.

So you want to deny people the right to free speech because these people want to deny the others to free speech/housing etc and you want to send this guy home like he wants to send immigrants home?...

:psyduck:

boneless

Brimmy wrote: »

You're wrong there, Hitler wasn't elected into office. He was elected into cabinet and then worked the system to get into office, there is a huge difference in that he never got a majority to be leader he was just smart enough to get it.

So you want to deny people the right to free speech because these people want to deny the others to free speech/housing etc and you want to send this guy home like he wants to send immigrants home?...

:psyduck:

Is a place in cabinet not a place in office??:p:rolleyes: And you made my argument for me too... thanks!

Morlar

boneless wrote: »

Personally, I would deny a platform to a fascist on this basis.

Isnt denying expression and stifling freedoms a hallmark of stereotypical fascistic behaviour ? 'This is for your own good' 'We know best' etc Ironically it seems to me that the most fascist behaviour thesedays is from the so called anti-fascists, who, despite being unelected propose to tell the less sophisticated/elite members of society who they can and can not have an opportunity to listen to. In other words 'we have made your mind up for you'.

Het-Field

ome of the actions of the Anti Fascist Movement need to be stopped. They go far beyond freedom of speeach, and in many cases, ala Justin Barrett in 2004, they break the law. Nobody has a right to assault another person. On that night both Barrett, and Joe Duffy were clearly subject to n illegal atttack. The behaviour of the protestors that night was Machiavellian to say the very least

stereoroid

I'd have thought a debate format would have been fine: people would be queueing up to rebuff everything he said etc. Not the same as him giving a speech about his party policies, for which he'd (hopefully) be talking to an empty hall. :rolleyes:

Bubs101

stereoroid wrote: »

I'd have thought a debate format would have been fine: people would be queueing up to rebuff everything he said etc. Not the same as him giving a speech about his party policies, for which he'd (hopefully) be talking to an empty hall. :rolleyes:

The problem is the Socialists would come out in force to disrupt everything, ****

FionnMatthew

Het-Field wrote: »

ome of the actions of the Anti Fascist Movement need to be stopped. They go far beyond freedom of speeach, and in many cases, ala Justin Barrett in 2004, they break the law. Nobody has a right to assault another person. On that night both Barrett, and Joe Duffy were clearly subject to n illegal atttack. The behaviour of the protestors that night was Machiavellian to say the very least

Agreed on everything but the Machiavelli bit.

Machiavelli would certainly not have run into a room to kick someone.

In fact, while old Mac's macropolitics are quite fascistic in nature, his micropolitics are rather more reminiscent of the rhetorical manipulation that goes on in democratic assemblies.

The last thing Mac would want is The Prince stomping on someone in jackboots.

The_Minister

FionnMatthew wrote: »

Agreed on everything but the Machiavelli bit.

Machiavelli would certainly not have run into a room to kick someone.

In fact, while old Mac's macropolitics are quite fascistic in nature, his micropolitics are rather more reminiscent of the rhetorical manipulation that goes on in democratic assemblies.

The last thing Mac would want is The Prince stomping on someone in jackboots.

Thank you for defending good old Niccolo, but if you read "The Discourses" you will see that his ideal Republic was actually quite nice (for the day). The Prince is about how a dictator should rule, so obviously its a little bit morally ambiguous. He dedicated it to a man who had him tortured for Christ's sake.

boneless

The_Minister wrote: »

Thank you for defending good old Niccolo, but if you read "The Discourses" you will see that his ideal Republic was actually quite nice (for the day). The Prince is about how a dictator should rule, so obviously its a little bit morally ambiguous. He dedicated it to a man who had him tortured for Christ's sake.

Stolkholm Syndrome?

IT Loser

JM Le Pen is the Man.

IT Loser

Morlar wrote: »

Isnt denying expression and stifling freedoms a hallmark of stereotypical fascistic behaviour ? 'This is for your own good' 'We know best' etc Ironically it seems to me that the most fascist behaviour thesedays is from the so called anti-fascists, who, despite being unelected propose to tell the less sophisticated/elite members of society who they can and can not have an opportunity to listen to. In other words 'we have made your mind up for you'.

Well, the Party is always right. Isn't that what they said in the USSR:D:D:rolleyes:

IT Loser

The only Jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist Variety.

The_Minister

boneless wrote: »

Stolkholm Syndrome?

I think he was just playing politics (and todays group think they have it tough)

IT Loser

The only jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist variety. When was the last time you saw Jackbooted "Fascists".

JumpJump

^^^ http://www.redwatch.co.uk/
Em, neo-nazis, skinheads (the fascist kind), the BNP, the National Front...keep up.

This is old news.

I love how people suddenly got all ideological about this and decried the death of free speech.

This is NOT a free speech issue. The issue here was that Le Pen was being given this platform to speak against the Lisbon Treaty. Why? How would this prompt fair, educational, balanced debate of any sort?

Also, I wonder what far-left extremist was going to be speaking FOR the Lisbon Treaty? Ye know, just to balance the debate.

The man has a right to free speech, and nobody is denying him this.
BUT, he does NOT deserve the offer of a platform to speak to hundreds of young Irish students. The two things are entirely different.

Ernie Ball

IT Loser wrote: »

The only jackbooted thugs out there are of the Socialist variety. When was the last time you saw Jackbooted "Fascists".

Last time I witnessed a Le Pen rally.

IT Loser

JumpJump wrote: »

^^^ http://www.redwatch.co.uk/
Em, neo-nazis, skinheads (the fascist kind), the BNP, the National Front...keep up.

This is old news.

I love how people suddenly got all ideological about this and decried the death of free speech.

This is NOT a free speech issue. The issue here was that Le Pen was being given this platform to speak against the Lisbon Treaty. Why? How would this prompt fair, educational, balanced debate of any sort?

Also, I wonder what far-left extremist was going to be speaking FOR the Lisbon Treaty? Ye know, just to balance the debate.

The man has a right to free speech, and nobody is denying him this.
BUT, he does NOT deserve the offer of a platform to speak to hundreds of young Irish students. The two things are entirely different.

I think hundreds of young Irish students can make their own minds up, They can choose to attend the debate or ignore it. You don't decide what is best.

IT Loser

Ernie Ball wrote: »

Last time I witnessed a Le Pen rally.

I was talking about Ireland.

Ivana Bacik and her Socialist baby killers....don't forget them. Of course, there is "Youth Defence" too....but don't ever expect to hear RTE talk about the "Pro Choice" lot in the same verse as they will of "Youth Defence". Also, militant Socialist Republicans and their attack on the "Love Ulster" lot.

Morlar

JumpJump wrote: »

This is NOT a free speech issue

Seems to me that that is exactly what it is - you are opposed to someone on political grounds and wish to

a) deny them an opportunity to speak
b) deny anyone else the opportunity to hear what they have to say

You have not been elected or have any kind of mandate from anyone to make those decisions.

So yes - that sounds like what that is about is the principle of free speech.

IT Loser

Morlar wrote: »

Seems to me that that is exactly what it is - you are opposed to someone on political grounds and wish to

a) deny them an opportunity to speak
b) deny anyone else the opportunity to hear what they have to say

You have not been elected or have any kind of mandate from anyone to make those decisions.

So yes - that sounds like what that is about is the principle of free speech.

Well done. What I hate about these lefty elitists, who throw their weight around on Campus, is that they think they are in a position to decide what is right for the rest of us. Sounds like the Pigs in Animal Farm to me.

Le Pen should be allowed come....and speak unhindered.

If Hugo Chavez, a man who tried to use the Army {a la Hitler} to gain power came to speak, would they be trying to stop him. Ha. Of course not....but Chavez is as brutal a defiler of the democratic process AS ANY MAN. In fact, the similarities between Hitler and Chavez are striking.

briantwin

A lot of people have made the point that he should be allowed to come here, make his points in a debate and then have them suitably rebuffed and that would be that. And what good will that do? Will he go back to France having learned the err of his ways ? Or is it unnecessarily exposing him to 100's of Irish youth?

Would it be worth it to have him here, to be rebuffed suitably and sent on his merry way , if he even influences 5 people out of the 100's to his fascist way of thinking?

I only wrote the OP because a friend of mine, a French sociology lecturer was telling me how enraged he was by the mere thought of it. And i agree with him on that!!

IT Loser

briantwin wrote: »

A lot of people have made the point that he should be allowed to come here, make his points in a debate and then have them suitably rebuffed and that would be that. And what good will that do? Will he go back to France having learned the err of his ways ? Or is it unnecessarily exposing him to 100's of Irish youth?

Would it be worth it to have him here, to be rebuffed suitably and sent on his merry way , if he even influences 5 people out of the 100's to his fascist way of thinking?

I only wrote the OP because a friend of mine, a French sociology lecturer was telling me how enraged he was by the mere thought of it. And i agree with him on that!!

Are you Simple??

Would you have Chavez here???

"Unnecessarily Exposing Him to 100's of Irish Youth"....Jesus Christ, you are DELUDED.

He is a free man in a free country and the people likely to attend are free men and women too. If thats too Democratic for you, then I suggest you put the spliff down and pick up a rifle.


Seems to me you have a problem with Democracy? Are you a Commie???

IT Loser

briantwin wrote: »

I think that in Irelands current situation i dont believe letting that man into the country would be anything but a mistake. There are a growing number of Irish people who would be swayed easily by this mans way of thinking, im not saying that they are fascists but to give the man a platform to voice any of his opinions would really be playing with fire. How many times have you heard someone complaining about "them foreigners etc etc etc". I'm not saying these people are guaranteed to become fascists but its an easier option to blame someone else especially immigrants when it comes to social issues like unemployment, housing issues, strained health care systems and over expenditure of the national budget on people who in his opinion "dont belong here". Now would be the worst possible time for any kind of surge in people thinking this way as its become more clear that economic uncertainty seems sure to cause hardship to more and more Irish families. The last thing we need to do is spawn a generation of little Adolfs!!!

FOOL.

What is this? A liberal form of Eugenics? Who are you to decide what people can and can't listen to, or what sort of people they are or aren't allowed to become.

I think you realise Le Pen speaks the truth and you are afraid to let the Jack out of the box, que no??

If you are such an economic and spiritual intellectual, you will shout this man down with ease?

But are apparently too afraid to let him speak, lest he be Marc Anthony to your Brutus. You fool, you block, you stone, you worse than senseless thing.

briantwin

Close enough.... Except reds not my colour sadly!

IT Loser

briantwin wrote: »

Close enough.... Except reds not my colour sadly!

Green. Another fool.

briantwin

I think you realise Le Pen speaks the truth and you are afraid to let the Jack out of the box, que no??

If you are such an economic and spiritual intellectual, you will shout this man down with ease?

But are apparently too afraid to let him speak, lest he be Marc Anthony to your Brutus. You fool, you block, you stone, you worse than senseless thing.

I never professed myself an economic or spiritual intellect in any of my posts, i just said how i felt about the situation.

I didn't ask for your agreement or anyone else's for that matter. And from your responses and the tone you've implied there in, i'd prefer to be on what ever side opposes yours!!

IT Loser wrote: »

JM Le Pen is the Man.

I hope you mean that, i really do, you idiot. I don't deny anyone the right to anything i just don't agree with inviting the leader of the fascist party to Ireland.

I'm sorry if it seems like someone is denying you your one chance to meet you idol in person. Go join some like minded people and burn out some immigrants businesses in retaliation. You utter fool !!

boneless

IT Loser wrote: »

Well done. What I hate about these lefty elitists, who throw their weight around on Campus, is that they think they are in a position to decide what is right for the rest of us. Sounds like the Pigs in Animal Farm to me.

Le Pen should be allowed come....and speak unhindered.

If Hugo Chavez, a man who tried to use the Army {a la Hitler} to gain power came to speak, would they be trying to stop him. Ha. Of course not....but Chavez is as brutal a defiler of the democratic process AS ANY MAN. In fact, the similarities between Hitler and Chavez are striking.

Have you ever read a newspaper or watched the news recently? I was just wondering...:rolleyes: