Moderation of this forum

Pigman II

Continuation from here : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055203942&page=3

I feel the moderating of this forum has been too intrusive for a while now. It’s more of a quiet dictatorship than an open forum.

Case in point. I make a “list thread” which fair enough is against the charter. The thread is locked and dumped. Anyway, I refit the thread to adhere to charter rules. All is going well but I almost sense the powers that be aren’t happy with a thread topic I wish to discuss and sure enough once somebody pops a video link in the thread it is summarily dumped into the “cool videos” forum despite the fact that out of 47 posts on the thread only 2 contained a link to a video clip and only 4 contained pix.

Is that the way it works? If so I hope in future you’ll see fit to dump any thread in that includes a link to video footage or pix into “cool videos etc” forum or some may accuse you of double standards. You can start by by checking out the frong-page of the forum and dumping "JJ Abrams 'Cloverfield' / 01-18-08" , "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" , "Wall-E Superbowl Ad" , "Juno' Trailer (Michael and George Micheal Bluth together again!)" , "Guillermo del Toro doubles up for 'The Hobbit'" , "Son of Rambo" , "Max Payne" , "New Iron Man trailer" , "Where In The World Is Osama Bin Laden?” into “cool videos etc” as all contain linkage to multimedia within their pages.

Same thing with film of the week. It’s a dictatorial concept. If I want to open a thread to discuss a particular movie I have to put it to a vote? Why? What happens if I start a thread every week called “Pigman’s Film of the Week #N” will I be allowed to do so or will it get locked down like everything else that doesn’t adhere to the playtime rules?

Basically I get the vibe off this forum that it is being run to suit a small minority of contributors and that the rest can just fall into line or get out. You don’t want lists cos it clutters up your forum? So what! People like lists. I’ve seen over 3,000 movies in my life (which I’d wager is more than 95% of the film fans here have seen) and you know how I know I’ve seen 3,000? It’s cos I keep a list!

Anyway, I feel the way things are going you might as well make this board a private forum. “You must say this but not that, you must say it like this but not like that.” It’s taking the fun out of posting here. The whole place is starting to look like Soccer (in it’s post private-forum guise) only I feel this place is somehow actually less liberal than there. The whole place is becoming incestuous and the threads shorter and less interesting. The same people spouting the same old opinions.

I think this forum needs to have a serious look at itself and decide whether it’s here to serve the few or the many.

User45701

Well the only thing i can say is i have wanted to start a "list your top 5 scifi movies (in no particular order)" thread

BlitzKrieg

Pigman II wrote: »

Same thing with film of the week. It’s a dictatorial concept. If I want to open a thread to discuss a particular movie I have to put it to a vote? Why? What happens if I start a thread every week called “Pigman’s Film of the Week #N” will I be allowed to do so or will it get locked down like everything else that doesn’t adhere to the playtime rules?

I dont get this point, what stops you from creating a thread about a film you wish to praise? It hasnt stopped countless other threads in both the film forum and the film review forum. Havok (or terrorfirmer as I think he calls himself now) does regular threads on b-movies he loves that no doubt 90% of us would probably hate. I fail to see how the boards.ie film of the week is some definite topic of discussion each week? Its based off a similar practice done in a few of the music forums i think. Its an object of fun more then anything else gives users a perspective on the taste users of the forum have in film.

Basically I get the vibe off this forum that it is being run to suit a small minority of contributors and that the rest can just fall into line or get out. You don’t want lists cos it clutters up your forum? So what! People like lists. I’ve seen over 3,000 movies in my life (which I’d wager is more than 95% of the film fans here have seen) and you know how I know I’ve seen 3,000? It’s cos I keep a list!

Tell me if I have this right. You feel the forum is catering to a minority of users, a sort of elite and the rest can either play along or go away. But you know this *elite* is clearly in the wrong because you feel people like lists because you like lists and you have seen a load of films...more then this so called elite at least and you can prove this because you have a list?

*scratch*

ok

I've always understood the need for a general no list policy because *top tens* repeat so very often, and many times they are very boring threads because they end up being only lists with little to no discussion. I understood varients like the film of the week and the defining boards.ie film list were comprimises to the blanket ban on lists.


And even then on the whole lists thing, Karl and Ixoy have been leniant in my opinion because many lists seem to slip through such as at the moment there is a thread about the ten worse directors on the 1st page, and many times threads on *official top 50* or other such nonensense programs are discussed here. There was also a while back a thread on listing good sci fi films.

I cant comment on your thread and its removal, I didnt read it beyond Monkeyfudge telling me who he put forward, so I dont know if there was something about the thread that sparked the move, thats between you and the mod/cmod/smod/admin who moved it.

Anyway, I feel the way things are going you might as well make this board a private forum. “You must say this but not that, you must say it like this but not like that.” It’s taking the fun out of posting here. The whole place is starting to look like Soccer (in it’s post private-forum guise) only I feel this place is somehow actually less liberal than there. The whole place is becoming incestuous and the threads shorter and less interesting. The same people spouting the same old opinions.

I've noticed shorter and quieter threads lately too, but i've put that down to it being a quiet enough period, The only big hitter (cloverfield) at the moment has 2 thread spanning numerous pages one of which started way back at the end of summer. things have been quiet because the film industry is a bit quiet at the moment.

Karl Hungus

I've moved this to a new thread, Pigman. Hope you don't object.

Pigman II

Yep, no problem Karl.

Karl Hungus

Pigman II wrote: »

Yep, no problem Karl.

Grand so.

Pigman II wrote: »

If I want to open a thread to discuss a particular movie I have to put it to a vote? Why?

Honestly man, this question is completely at odds with the concept of FotW, and I feel you've completely misunderstood. If you want to open a thread to discuss a movie, there is absolutely nothing stopping you, and you certainly do not have to put it to a vote. I would fully encourage you to start a thread to discuss any film you want.

The idea of film of the week is just something for people to put films to a vote, it's absolutely not there for putting all new threads through a vote processes. Anyone can create a new thread about any specific film any time they want.

Savman

Pigman II wrote: »

I feel the moderating of this forum has been too intrusive for a while now. It’s more of a quiet dictatorship than an open forum.

Agree, but dicatatorship isnt the word I'd use, maybe "play thing".

Dont be at yourself

On list threads: Not all list threads are without merit, and so having a blanket ban on them is over-the-top. If nothing else, they can often serve as a springboard for posters to find new films that might interest them. And as ever, if you don't like them, don't read them!

On the FotW: I know it's popular, but it seems to be a complete failure to me. As someone previously said, it seems like a very slow way of reproducing the IMDB Top 250. Films seem to be voted on for their artistic worth rather than how discussion-provoking they might be. As such, we've got a list of classic films, and threads full of people nodding in agreement with next to no actual discussion taking place.

In the end, the moderation of this forum is often overly apparant. On the games board, I tend to only step in to flame wars, spamming, shilling and so on. There's nothing wrong with threads wandering off-topic, and there's nothing wrong with posters posting list threads etc.

Fysh

I'm kind of surprised this is here rather than Feedback, but anyway...

Personally, I'm glad of the ban on list topics. A lot of the more common list topics seem to be posted by people either unaware or uncaring of the fact that an identical thread may already exist and generally they don't bother resurrecting the old thread. There's a limit to how many times this forum, or any other forum for that matter, needs to see repeated iterations of "What's the best film ya ever saw, no really I'm serious this time?". Or "Who's the hottest ROIDE ya ever saw in a film?", and so on.

Aside from which, I don't know what gave you the idea that you can't open a thread to discuss a given film unless it's been voted a film of the week. That's certainly not the impression I have of how this forum works.

L31mr0d

Quick question... I posted a thread a while back asking for recommendation on asian movies, now that thread pretty much contains lists of peoples recommended good asian movies. How is that different to someone posting a thread and titling it "Your top 5 Asian movie recommendations"? I mean would the latter get removed?

Sherifu

I can't say I knew there were any restrictions in this forum, the list topics I can understand. Suppose i've not started any topics here really. Haven't noticed any oppressive modding when browsing the forum anyway.

My name is Todd

A few weeks back I was going to vote Terminator 2 for FotW but after this:

Originally Posted by the_porn_baby
Terminator 2. This film deserves it - the discussion on the current film of the week proves it. I think Terminator fans are split 50/50 on which one is the best so both deserve to be there.

To which Karl Hungus replied:

There's no reason you can't start a thread about Terminator 2 yourself. Granted, it won't be Film Of The Week, but if you're aching to discuss it, then by all means start a thread.

I just couldn't be bothered voting there any more. the_porn_baby voted for Terminator 2 twice (although weeks apart) and the second time the vote was simply cast aside because it seemed, at the time, Karl was on a personal mission to get the original Terminator on the list. One vote per week is the rule isn't it? the_porn_baby was only voting for a film - as far as I could see he didn't want to start an entire thread.

I wouldn't mind starting a thread juxtaposing the two Terminator films myself anyway, but if people can't even cast a bloody vote without chastisement then what's the point of having one.

I think this scenario fits in with Pigman's initial argument - intrusive/dictatorial moderation.

BlitzKrieg

My name is Todd, could you put those posts into context, was this in the fotw voting thread? a link could help.

Cause the reply can be picked up in a number of different ways. if it was in fotw voting thread then maybe he meant that another film had run away with the voting that week?

I just couldn't be bothered voting there any more. the_porn_baby voted for Terminator 2 twice (although weeks apart) and the second time the vote was simply cast aside because it seemed, at the time, Karl was on a personal mission to get the original Terminator on the list. One vote per week is the rule isn't it? the_porn_baby was only voting for a film - as far as I could see he didn't want to start an entire thread.

Why blame Karl if other people didnt vote for terminator 2? I think your overstretching Karl's ability to influence the vote? He's tried many times to get more ghibli films into fotw and he keeps getting knocked back by other more popular votes (and looks like he will again this week.)

Quick question... I posted a thread a while back asking for recommendation on asian movies, now that thread pretty much contains lists of peoples recommended good asian movies. How is that different to someone posting a thread and titling it "Your top 5 Asian movie recommendations"? I mean would the latter get removed?

Like I already said the list rule is alot more relaxed then people make it out to be. I guess if a healthy discussion is picked up because of a list then it doesnt seem to get closed or moved.

On the FotW: I know it's popular, but it seems to be a complete failure to me. As someone previously said, it seems like a very slow way of reproducing the IMDB Top 250. Films seem to be voted on for their artistic worth rather than how discussion-provoking they might be. As such, we've got a list of classic films, and threads full of people nodding in agreement with next to no actual discussion taking place.

I guess thats what happens when people can pick any film they want. Everyone is voting for popular films, and if one they dislike is voted, they usually avoid the thread on it, or in the case of some their criticisms are simply ignored by those who voted said film in. Case in point Requim of a Dream and Serenity.

ztoical

I'm not fan of just plain "name top 5 insert topic" list threads. I understand what some people are saying about them helping people find new films but I think it needs to more then just "these are my top insert topic films" In order for the list to be of any use it needs to be expanded with "this is why these are my top insert topic films" Theres been a couple of list threads started that are just lists to begin but then people start talking about certain peoples choices [case in point the recent discussion about the good/bad of Pitch Black] but alot of those list threads just stay that big list of names while some people try to prove how cool and big a film nerd they are by listing some random odd titles. Its yawn, you can ignore them if you don't like them, but left unchecked the whole forum would just become random pointless lists.

Alot of the forums on boards have this policy of no massive list threads. The comics forum has loads of "whats your fav comics threads" or "what comic should I read next threads" started and it became really boring to read just a list of comics over and over so the mods had them merged into two threads [whats comics your currently reading and the ultimate comicbook shelf threads] and with both threads people had to give reasons why they were reading/had read this comic. That leads to discussion with people and someone saying "hey I'm going to pick up this comic cus everyone is taking about it"

And Pigman II honestly who gives a rats ass that you made a list of the 3000 odd movies you've seen - on average I see more movies then that in a year and I use to keep track of them, mainly cus I use to do film reviews, but why would I keep a massive list of just film names? I can understand people keeping notes about films but just listing them? I know there's places online you can go list all your films but frankly I don't have that much free time.

I wouldn't fall under that "small minority" of posters as I only started posting outside of the comics forum a couple of weeks ago and I find this forum to be both interesting and stimulating - the discussion of Cloverfield has been great as its a film that really seems to have divided people but people are actually discussing the whys they did/didn't like the film and only handful of people have posted with "It sucked" and nothing more. I've found the mods at least tell you why they've closed/moved threads where other forums just lock it with no explanation.

Some threads are started to talk about a film/actor/director/genre etc etc and no one replies or theres only a handful - that sucks but you can't expect everyone to like and talk about the same movies as you. Right after posting this I'm going to post a thread about my fav director, might get no discussion going, might get lots of discussion, shall have to wait and see.

My name is Todd

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

My name is Todd, could you put those posts into context, was this in the fotw voting thread? a link could help.

...

Why blame Karl if other people didnt vote for terminator 2? I think your overstretching Karl's ability to influence the vote? He's tried many times to get more ghibli films into fotw and he keeps getting knocked back by other more popular votes (and looks like he will again this week.)

Yeah it was in the FotW thread, here's the link:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055037718&page=36
The Terminator discussion went on for a few pages beforehand so if you're interested you'll have to check it out yourself. From what I could see the vote was 50/50 (as the_porn_baby stated) so plenty of people were voting for T2.

I'm actually fully in favour of the FotW thread and I've picked up a few of the films I may not have considered in the past - but every vote needs to be considered - moderators shouldn't respond with glib remarks just because their top choice is being challenged.

Anyway, I'm off to vote for Terminator 2 (just to annoy Karl).

ztoical

My name is Todd wrote: »

Yeah it was in the FotW thread, here's the link:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055037718&page=36
The Terminator discussion went on for a few pages beforehand so if you're interested you'll have to check it out yourself. From what I could see the vote was 50/50 (as the_porn_baby stated) so plenty of people were voting for T2.

everything in context as they say - I think Karl meant to say it won't be film of the week THIS week as that was posted right at the end of that week and looking back through the thread it was clear it wasn't winning that week and not it will never be film of the week.

And the comment was made the terminator fans are divided 50/50 over which is better 1 or 2 - that is something that would have made a good discussion thread but its not the mods job to start those threads just because someone brings it up in a different one.

L31mr0d

My name is Todd wrote: »

Anyway, I'm off to vote for Terminator 2 (just to annoy Karl).

You give out about Karl abusing the voting system in FotW and now you are off to do just that. Congratulations on being hypocritical

Also, I think Karl was completely right to take your discussion to another thread. The FotW is about just posting your vote, not discussing a movie. If you wanted you could start up a discussion about the movie and tell people to cast their vote in the FotW thread.

My 2 cents on this. I don't think the mods are over modding this forum at all. I like it here because people just talk about movies and everyone knows the status quo. IMO, list threads are a bad idea as nobody really cares about them but the OP of the list. I've posted in list threads before with my "top 5" and not bothered to read any of the 10+ pages as there was no discussion about the movies just their names. The exception would be if a person wanted movie recommendations. In this guise the thread wouldn't really be a list thread as discussion about why the movies should be recommended would also be included.

Regardless... this thread would probably serve a better purpose over in feedback.

ztoical

L31mr0d wrote: »

list threads are a bad idea as nobody really cares about them but the OP of the list. I've posted in list threads before with my "top 5" and not bothered to read any of the 10+ pages as there was no discussion about the movies just their names.

+1 once a list thread goes over X amount of pages people stop reading all the lists posted and you just get the same movies repeated over and over.

RAIN

This is a little off topic.

I would like to know why Karl is aloud to blatantly plug and advertise his own Blog under the guise of things like ''I just got to interview uwe bowl'' or ''check this out''. Im sure if someone from any other site showed up here saying they had interviewed someone and gave a link to the interview on hotpress.com or entertainment.ie there would be a big BANNED sign next to there names.

BlitzKrieg

he's been given infractions over it already so I assume higher up on the foodchain has talked to him about it.

ztoical

RAIN wrote: »

This is a little off topic.

I would like to know why Karl is aloud to blatantly plug and advertise his own Blog under the guise of things like ''I just got to interview ''uwe bowl'' or ''check this out''. Im sure if someone from any other site showed up here saying they had interviewed someone and gave a link to the interview on hotpress.com or entertainment.ie there would be a big BANNED sign next to there names.

do you have an example of this actually happening [the people getting banned part]? People have linked to interviews/other blogs etc in threads before without being banned. Karl runs his blog and sets up these interviews and has posted here asking people what questions they'd liked asked, whats wrong with that? He hasn't asked people to pay money in order for their question to be asked and he didn't [at least to my eyes] show any favouritism to certain people on the board - I'm sure if someone on here was going to be interviewing someone of interest to the film board there wouldn't be issue of them posting about it. I've a link to my website in my sig and I've mentioned the film I just finished working on in threads [and when it hits cinemas in october I will be posting on here like mad asking people to go see it] and no one said anything to me about it.

He runs a blog doing film news and interviews why shouldn't he be allowed to push it in the film boards - bands post about gigs in the music forums and small press comics people post about their new comics in comics forum all the time.

Morlar

RAIN wrote: »

This is a little off topic.

I would like to know why Karl is aloud to blatantly plug and advertise his own Blog under the guise of things like ''I just got to interview uwe bowl'' or ''check this out''. .

Not a fan of the list ban (in its entirety) either but the interview posts are totally acceptable to me.

If someone here is interviewing a movie hero and give other people the opportunity (even if its with a very tight timeframe) to put together questions for that person then its a good thing.

Who cares about a blog or where they are stored online its the fact that somone here is getting to interview these people to begin with and also giving other people the opportunity to come up with questions. +1 for the interviews, +1 for allowing lists so long as this forum doesnt turn into a 'list fest'. Couldnt care less if someone mod or otherwise has their blog in their sig.

My name is Todd

L31mr0d wrote: »

You give out about Karl abusing the voting system in FotW and now you are off to do just that. Congratulations on being hypocritical

Also, I think Karl was completely right to take your discussion to another thread. The FotW is about just posting your vote, not discussing a movie.

How is voting for a film abusing the system? Everyone gets one vote per week, and that's my vote for this week.
The majority of people give a brief reason why they want the film to be FotW, every different vote doesn't merit a separate thread.

L31mr0d

My name is Todd wrote: »

How is voting for a film abusing the system? Everyone gets one vote per week, and that's my vote for this week.
The majority of people give a brief reason why they want the film to be FotW, every different vote doesn't merit a separate thread.

I agree but once you've cast your vote and given a reason you shouldn't have a need to post in that thread again. Discussion about the merits of different movies should be kept to another thread. The FotW thread is for voting only afaik.

Also you are abusing it by voting in your own words "just to annoy Karl". The whole point of voting in FotW is to get movies of merit onto the list not ones you vote for because it will annoy someone else to do so.

Mark Hamill

I could understand the "no lists" policy if it werent for the fact that the biggest threads in radio and television are list threads ("best/worst radio ads"; "adverts you despise"; and "the simpsons quiz" (with 775 replies)).
If list threads are just spammy as hell, and become boring collections of posts filled with lists and no discusions, then nobody would post in them and they would disappear by themselves, problem solved, and to be honest a lot of them do (there where recently a few "my top 100 games" in the games forum, they didn't last too long). But some do, and go on for a good whiole and a lot of the people who use this forum like them (hence the mods have to keep locking/deleting new threads), so whats the problem if we have them?
If you are afraid that everyone one will come on and with their own "top x films" thread, then just have it that there can only be one thread like this per fortnight (and maybe only one type of thread at atime, so if someone does a "best directors" thread, then no-one else can open one, they have to post in the original) thus forcing the people who want these types to stick in one thread at a time and actually discuss their own or other peoples lists.

RAIN

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

he's been given infractions over it already so I assume higher up on the foodchain has talked to him about it.

Obviously im not the only one who noticed it.

Karl's site is his own thing , I have linked aintitcool many times for movie news but I didn't set it up. My point is (broad example) if Harry Knowles was the film moderator should he be allowed tell people not to advertise on boards and then point people towards his site.Bands advertising gigs are not a direct rival of boards but if ( wish him all the best ) it gets to the stage where Karl's site gets a large audience and gets to charge people for advertising then he profited from posting the link to his site on boards.

ztoical

RAIN wrote: »

Obviously im not the only one who noticed it.

Karl's site is his own thing , I have linked aintitcool many times for movie news but I didn't set it up. My point is (broad example) if Harry Knowles was the film moderator should he be allowed tell people not to advertise on boards and then point people towards his site.Bands advertising gigs are not a direct rival of boards but if ( wish him all the best ) it gets to the stage where Karl's site gets a large audience and gets to charge people for advertising then he profited from posting the link to his site on boards.


That's all im saying.

I get what your saying but its one of those things where i say lets cross this bridge when we come to it. At the moment his blog isn't so large that he is charging for advertising and the admins of boards are aware of his blog and keep an eye on his posts regarding it. I'm sure if it ever got to the point of it being to large they would ask him to stop pushing it on here.

I think the issue with posting about other blogs and so on via this forum is aimed more at the people who sign up and post once just to push another site. Karl posts on here alot on many things no related to his blog at all so its not like its [currently] his only agenda as mod of this forum.

My name is Todd

L31mr0d wrote: »

I agree but once you've cast your vote and given a reason you shouldn't have a need to post in that thread again. Discussion about the merits of different movies should be kept to another thread. The FotW thread is for voting only afaik.

I'm trying not to go off topic but that's ridiculous. How else can a person hope to see their favourite film make the list? People can vote as many times as they like as long as it's only once a week.
I'm going to vote for my film every week until it makes that list - mainly for my own satisfaction, but also now to annoy you.

BlitzKrieg

I think you misunderstood l31mr0d. he meant you shouldnt need to discuss your vote with other posters in the voting thread. Not that you cant vote for your film again and again each week.

Alot of people do that. There are people still trying to get true Romance selected, its been nominated almost every week now. The Usual Suspects got brought up again and again until it was selected.

L31mr0d

My name is Todd wrote: »

I'm trying not to go off topic but that's ridiculous. How else can a person hope to see their favourite film make the list? People can vote as many times as they like as long as it's only once a week.
I'm going to vote for my film every week until it makes that list - mainly for my own satisfaction, but also now to annoy you.

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

I think you misunderstood l31mr0d. he meant you shouldnt need to discuss your vote with other posters in the voting thread. Not that you cant vote for your film again and again each week.

what BlitzKrieg said. I didn't mean you could only post once in the FotW thread EVER, I meant you are only supposed to post once PER WEEK. The thread isn't meant for discussion its about voting. You have a whole forum for discussing the merits of a movie, you don't have to limit it to only posting in the FotW thread.

I think your base understanding of what Karl was saying is the issue. He wasn't telling the_porn_baby not to vote, he was telling him to open up discussion about T2 in another thread.

Karl Hungus

Honestly guys, I know that there will always be people here who are unhappy with the moderation. It's a given, you cannot keep all the people happy all of the time, and no matter what I do, I'm always going to get some flak for it, which I just have to grin and bear. I can keep some of the people happy some of the time, and I'm ok with that.

As far as the lists thread issue goes, I think quite a few people here have answered that question well enough already. But honestly guys, do you really want the ban on these threads lifted? I'd be all for lifting it for a month or so on a trail run, but think long and hard about it, because when you get a load of list threads, as well as "What was the last film you watched?" and "What was the last DVD you picked up?" threads, they can really dominate and overshadow the entire forum.

Seriously, think about it.

Why isn't this in Feedback? Well, it's extremely relevant to this forum, and I'd feel that a lot of people who might post here mightn't visit Feedback, so I think it's much better off being kept here. As I see it, posting a thread in Feedback or the help desk is generally for complaints, and this is more of an open discussion about the moderation, if you get me?

My name is Todd wrote: »

Yeah it was in the FotW thread, here's the link:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055037718&page=36
The Terminator discussion went on for a few pages beforehand so if you're interested you'll have to check it out yourself. From what I could see the vote was 50/50 (as the_porn_baby stated) so plenty of people were voting for T2.

I'm actually fully in favour of the FotW thread and I've picked up a few of the films I may not have considered in the past - but every vote needs to be considered - moderators shouldn't respond with glib remarks just because their top choice is being challenged.

Anyway, I'm off to vote for Terminator 2 (just to annoy Karl).

Here's the post in question. Honestly, My Name is Todd, I think you're deliberately reading something into the situation that simply is not there. Glib remarks because my choice is being challenged? Seriously now, is that really how it comes across? You're completely misconstrueing what is nothing but suggesting an alternative.

The reality of it is, the vote was coming in at the end of the thread, so it was clear it wasn't going to win that week, and I merely suggested starting a new thread to discuss it. You're approaching this from a very antagonistic stance, saying that I chastized the porn baby, which is simply not true!

I don't know why you'd think voting for Terminator 2 would annoy me, but the fact that you're deliberately making it clear that you are trying to get under my skin here definitely gives credence to what I said about you being antagonistic here.

I hope this clears the matter up, and I'd hope you wouldn't read something that isn't there into my posts in future. Alrighty now?

RAIN wrote: »

This is a little off topic.

I would like to know why Karl is aloud to blatantly plug and advertise his own Blog under the guise of things like ''I just got to interview uwe bowl'' or ''check this out''. Im sure if someone from any other site showed up here saying they had interviewed someone and gave a link to the interview on hotpress.com or entertainment.ie there would be a big BANNED sign next to there names.

A hell of a lot of people here plug things like blogs, other websites, bebo or myspace pages, their bands, even businesses and so forth, in relevant links in threads or in their sigs. Go over to the Cool Pics, Vids and Links forum, or the Social Media forum, and see plugs galore. Honestly man, I think you're only taking exception because I'm moderator here. Fair enough, you don't want me to ask if anyone has any questions for someone next time I've an interview lined up, then I won't.

Quite a few people with blogs post on Film Reviews, linking back to their blog, have a look here for an example. It's been going on for a long time, long before I had a blog and I've never banned anyone for it, so you're looking for a double standard that isn't there.

Morlar

Karl Hungus wrote: »

But honestly guys, do you really want the ban on these threads lifted? I'd be all for lifting it for a month or so on a trail run, but think long and hard about it, because when you get a load of list threads, as well as "What was the last film you watched?" and "What was the last DVD you picked up?" threads, they can really dominate and overshadow the entire forum.

Seriously, think about it.

I can imagine it might get tedious if done to death but is there no inbetween from ZERO threads containing lists EVER to one or two in moderation ?

How about a single 'list' type thread at a time ? ie have one ongoing and any new ones get locked till the current one runs its course. Than when a new one comes along its the designated 'list' thread till that one runs its course ?

ztoical

Morlar wrote: »

I can imagine it might get tedious if done to death but is there no inbetween from ZERO threads containing lists EVER to one or two in moderation ?

But there are threads on here that started as lists [like the worst directors thread, the how many dvds do you have thread etc] but they developed into discussions - people aren't going to like it but I say leave to the mods, if a thread goes past say 10 posts and its still just a giant list, its pointless and either merge or lock.

Karl Hungus

Morlar wrote: »

I can imagine it might get tedious if done to death but is there no inbetween from ZERO threads containing lists EVER to one or two in moderation ?

How about a single 'list' type thread at a time ? ie have one ongoing and any new ones get locked till the current one runs its course. Than when a new one comes along its the designated 'list' thread till that one runs its course ?

Well there's currently 2 list type threads on the front page here, so it's never really been a case of zero threads ever, unless they're really stupid lists or barely have anything to do with films. I'll generally let them run their course anyway, unless they start spawning copycat threads (For example, when someone posts a best actor list, someone else will post a worst) then they get locked.

What you suggest isn't a bad idea at all, but in practice I think we're already pretty close to that.

Morlar

ztoical wrote: »

if a thread goes past say 10 posts and its still just a giant list, its pointless and either merge or lock.

In fairness I can kind of see your point. I still think a tiny degree of more flexibility would go a long way. Its pretty much the only niggle I have with this forum and not the end of the world in any event.

RAIN

Hey Karl , I honestly am not saying it because I have anything against you as a Mod I just felt at the least it was excessive , in the Iron Man thread you speak about KarlHungus.com in the Original Post and link to it then again near the end, that (to me ) seems a bit much. I just feel for such a strictly kept forum this is a little bit of a deal breaker.

I never said you had a double standard I just always though that boards frowned on people advertising services through the forums.(your service being movie news)

I only mentioned the Uwe Boll thread because it was one that sprang to mind ! It had nothing to do with you asking people what questions they would like you to ask Uwe.


If im wrong im wrong I mean there doesn't seem to be many people agreeing with me so i can live with it and probably would have never mentioned it only for this thread so its not that big a deal anyway !!

Fysh

Realistically though, you've got three options:

i) No lists WHATSOEVER, enforced through some sort of internet-death-ray
ii) Lists for all! Which descends into a hideous self-replicating morass of drivel as people create such inspired and thought-provoking threads as "What was the last film you had to pause half-way through so that you could go for a dump?" and "Best film to watch while picking your nose".
iii) Some lists at the moderators' discretion (Effectively what we have now)

Of the three options, iii) is the most likely to work. Disagreeing with the mod's discretion? There's not really a lot that you can do about it other than complain, and it's a really awkward grey area to qualify.

Ultimately, list threads are only worth the discussion they provoke; lists by themselves don't have any real merit. Given that Karl in particular and the mods in general do, imo, a good job of keeping the forum ticking over in such a way as to encourage discussion of cinema and film, I think we should carry on as we are. I would definitely find it interesting to see what happens if the ban were lifted for a month, but I'd also be kind of scared at the monsters that might be created along the way...

Karl Hungus

I've removed both links from the Iron Man thread Rain, ok?

Makaveli

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Why blame Karl if other people didnt vote for terminator 2? I think your overstretching Karl's ability to influence the vote? He's tried many times to get more ghibli films into fotw and he keeps getting knocked back by other more popular votes (and looks like he will again this week.)

I've always wondered just how much influence a KH nomination has, so I went through the entire thread (slow day). Really bar the absolute epic failings of trying to get Spirited Away in 5 times, it's pretty much positive. His Ghibli attempts make it 50/50.

#01 - No vote
#02 - No vote
#03 - No vote
#04 - No vote
#05 - No vote
#06 - Princess Bride (Nominated)
#07 - Big Lebowski (Tie with Pulp Fiction) (N)
#08 - No vote
#09 - No vote
#10 - No vote
#11 - Terminator (lost) (N)
#12 - Battle Royale (N)
#13 - Grave of the Fireflies (N)
#14 - The Thing (N)
#15 - No vote
#16 - No vote
#17 - No vote
#18 - No vote
#19 - Mulholland Drive (Lost) (N)
#20 - Pan' Labyrinth (N)
#21 - Brotherhood (Lost) (+1)
#22 - No vote
#23 - No vote
#24 - Audition (+1)
#25 - No vote
#26 - Serenity (+1)
#27 - The Prestige (N)
#28 - Aliens (+1)
#29 - Spirited Away (Lost) (N)
#30 - Spirited Away (Lost) (N)
#31 - Spirited Away (Lost) (N)
#32 - Terminator (+1)
#33 - Monty Python and The Holy Grail (Lost) (N)
#34 - Spirited Away (Lost) (N)
#35 - Ring (Lost) (N)
#36 - Ring (+1)
#37 - Big Trouble In Little China (Lost) (N)
#38 - Empire Of The Sun (Lost) (+1)
#39 - Spirited Away (Lost) (N)
#40 - Save The Green Planet (Lost) (+1)
#41 - Save The Green Planet (N)
#42 - My Neighbor Totoro (Lost) (N)
#43 - The Iron Giant (Lost) (N)
#44 - Empire Of The Sun (Lost) (N)
#45 - The Iron Giant (Lost) (+1)
#46 - Zatoichi (+1)
#47 - The Usual Suspects (+1)
#48 - Ran (Lost) (N)
#49 - No Vote
#50 - Ran (Lost) (N)
#51 - Titanic (Lost) (+1)
#52 - Starship Troopers (+1)
#53 - Mulholland Drive (N)
#54 - Psycho (N)
#55 - Anchorman (+1)
#56 - The Seventh Seal (+1)
#57 - Princess Mononoke (N) (Going to Lose)

I also noticed some people pretty much follow his vote each week.

BlitzKrieg

thats fantastic.

Makaveli you either have the most boring job in the world or a minute obsessive compulsive disorder.


EDIT: Wait??? Is Grave of the Fireflies the only ghibli film thats been awarded? I dont know if i should cry or laugh...

Karl Hungus

Dear jesus, you must have a lot of time on your hands today, Mak! :eek:

Makaveli

Waiting to start a new job. Bored is not the word.

Thanks for the sass though Blitzkrieg.

koneko

I generally* have similar tastes to KH so I'd +1 his nominations from time to time, usually when they're the "underdog" and deserve to win (for instance if there are lots of votes for the Goonies and his nomination is something like Ran, I'd want Ran to win). Don't really see what the problem is though.

* notable exceptions being Hellboy, Crank. What the hell, man!

Dont be at yourself

Is everyone missing the point of FotW, or is it just me?

Karl Hungus

Edit: Reopened at Pigman II's request.

User45701

My name is Todd wrote: »

I'm trying not to go off topic but that's ridiculous. How else can a person hope to see their favorite film make the list? People can vote as many times as they like as long as it's only once a week.
I'm going to vote for my film every week until it makes that list - mainly for my own satisfaction, but also now to annoy you.

Reminds me of Serenity, i went on a quest nominating it every friday when karl started the new vote, it took 2 months before it got voted in,

Now im on a quest for blues brothers, and i will keep it up unless someone else nominates something amazing, If im right Karl or someone else in fotw introduced me to Dead Mans Shoes? Fantastic movie, and that is what fotw is all about, people discovering "hidden gems"

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

thats fantastic.

Makaveli you either have the most boring job in the world or a minute obsessive compulsive disorder.


EDIT: Wait??? Is Grave of the Fireflies the only ghibli film thats been awarded? I dont know if i should cry or laugh...

Im sure he just wanted to prove a point and i have noticed that some people do follow karls vote but thats nothing special, go back 10 years and it was the same back then. "Community leaders" would have the same people agreeing with them all the time, go to any gaming forum now and see how many people agree with the game company's community manager. There have always been and will always be sheep, im not calling anyone here sheep im saying its a common theme throughout the internet.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Edit: Reopened at Pigman II's request.

Phew, i didn't know this had been locked, good thing its opened again i did want to post in it tbh and just hadn't gotten around to it till now...

This is a copy/paste from a post i just made in the fotw thread

User45701 wrote: »

Alien won before so very few of this weeks votes will count as there have again been allot of votes of alien...



I didnt think it was that good at all, i had high hopes but it was too dark, it should have been more like aliens or alien resurrection where i could see everything because i would like liked to have seen more clearly the alien/predator hybrid, because that was very interesting but it didn't work out well.

Anyway my vote again goes for

Blues Brothers

also i was thinking, i know this is a voting thread and all so you can edit the above comments if you really want to but i think the rule should be "No discussion unless the post includes your nomination, then you can make a comment on the other cars that are nominated as you vote"

I understand and completely agree that there should be a no discussion rule in the FOTW thread, but i think you should be allowed make comments on another users vote if that post includes your own vote (like above.)

Or last week another poster voted for "Thankyou for smoking" A great movie and i commented that i would be voting for that after i get blues brothers in and it was deleted (it should have been deleted as i had already cast my vote)

I have had time to think about all this and to me the solution is simple.

1. Allow comments in FOTW as long as the post includes the users own vote in BOLD so that people who only want to read votes can do just that (makes your job easier karl)

2. This whole list threads discussion.. to me all you have to do is take a page out of the poker forum. Karl, Create a thread and sticky it called "My top ## Fav/most hated directors/movies/" or something like that on the poker forum its called
"Bad beat/Moan/Venting thread + Boast/Wow,lol posts."
It has Posts and over 320000 views and it cleared allot o the crap from the poker forum. Perhaps this would make more film forum users happy by letting them post there lists but also not littering the forum in list threads?

Karl Hungus

User45701 wrote: »

Now im on a quest for blues brothers, and i will keep it up unless someone else nominates something amazing, If im right Karl or someone else in fotw introduced me to Dead Mans Shoes? Fantastic movie, and that is what fotw is all about, people discovering "hidden gems"

If it's about discovering hidden gems, why vote for a film that most people here will have already seen? Why not mix it up a bit more and vote for something a little less mainstream?

User45701 wrote: »

1. Allow comments in FOTW as long as the post includes the users own vote in BOLD so that people who only want to read votes can do just that (makes your job easier karl)

Allowing comments is just going to be hectic, because people will want to reply to comments, even if they've used their vote. It'll just make the whole thing a complete pain. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it would work in practice.

User45701 wrote: »

2. This whole list threads discussion.. to me all you have to do is take a page out of the poker forum. Karl, Create a thread and sticky it called "My top ## Fav/most hated directors/movies/" or something like that on the poker forum its called
"Bad beat/Moan/Venting thread + Boast/Wow,lol posts."
It has Posts and over 320000 views and it cleared allot o the crap from the poker forum. Perhaps this would make more film forum users happy by letting them post there lists but also not littering the forum in list threads?

Again, not a bad idea. It's a pretty good one, in fact. I think that some of the list threads that do have discussion merit (Such as the current worst directors thread) would get lost in a big high volume thread like that.

I'll see what other people think of it, and maybe make a decision on it later.

Theboinkmaster

i dont post here often but do read the forum every day and i think the moderation is perfect - big thanks to karl especially

PullMyFinger!

I had a big rant posted on feedback a couple of years ago about the moderation here but I cant find it now. Maybe I never actually posted one but I intended to?!

Anyhoo:

Karl seems to have chilled out somewhat compared to then but he still isnt List Friendly

I think if you're not happy you should do what I did for awhile and go over to the forums on Empire - vote with your fingers.

That or email Cloud personally. If you're a regular Boardsie and a film fan then this is your forum - not Karl's online toy

Dont mean to be rude Karl, you have relaxed alot compared to before but you have to remember that its the posters that are the important thing here - not your ego

Karl Hungus

PullMyFinger! wrote: »

Dont mean to be rude Karl, you have relaxed alot compared to before but you have to remember that its the posters that are the important thing here - not your ego

That's a pretty damned ridiculous statement, trollish even. I don't even see how someone assumes my ego comes into it. Of course the posters are important, and it's ridiculous to suggest that I don't think that, what exactly would this forum be without posters? But it's important that discussion flows, and too many list threads can drown out proper discussion. Even taking the Empire forums as an example, they deal with this problem in their own way by having a seperate "Lists and top 10s" forum.

ztoical

PullMyFinger! wrote: »

I think if you're not happy you should do what I did for awhile and go over to the forums on Empire - vote with your fingers.

That or email Cloud personally. If you're a regular Boardsie and a film fan then this is your forum - not Karl's online toy

Dont mean to be rude Karl, you have relaxed alot compared to before but you have to remember that its the posters that are the important thing here - not your ego

Haha, have to say I found this funny - it really sounds like one of those conversations that starts "I'm not racists but I don't like black people" or "I'm not homophobic but I hate gays" The above reads like "I think Karl is a cool guy but he is an egotistical know it all on a power trip"

I think a number of people who post here have stated they are not fans of list threads and have given their reasons why so its not like Karl declared no list threads cus he felt like it. Its also been made pretty clear that its not a zero tolerance policy - threads that start as list are given time to develop into interesting threads [worest directors thread/who would you cast bio thread] but if it just ends up as lots of people naming things without actaully giving reasons for their choices its kinda boring and I feel Karl's been pretty on the ball merging those threads or locking them.

Also what has the whole voting with your fingers got to do with this? We don't pay to use this forum, people are free to post here or not. If someone did have a major issue with the modding on the forum then they should take it to feedback and let the admins judge if theres anything out of order. The above just reads like thinly veiled advertising for the empire forums.