Cathal ó Searcaigh off the leaving?

ashbash

thats wat i heard....

anyone know for sure?

mikemac

I doubt it, they can't just change the curriculum at this stage.
However, don't they have reserve papers so you never know.

ashbash

sweet i hope they just take it out cause Níl aon Ní and fasoiseamh a Gheobhadsa are too a like!
it confuses me

King Ludvig

The only two peoms i like. One word: codersnacht!!!

The Volt

Nil aon ni was on my mock but it was a stand alone one

ashbash

oh? gealt as my stand alone one.

i had jack and níl aon ní on mine.


people dont want him on the leaving cause he is in a little trouble with having sex with 16 year olds boy in some county and was paying them

The Volt

hahahaha

níl aon ni

ashbash

indeed my class wer imature enuf to think him being gay was scandel! lol!

haha

PurpleFistMixer

They couldn't possibly take him off the current course, unless they want to turn around and tell us we've two less poems to learn... Maybe in the future, though. *shrug*

timmywex

Our teacher was telling us this today (im in 5th year though) he didnt say it was off for this year but he'd have a bet it wont be on any more. Cathal was arrested for pssesing some kind of p*rn, not sure what type, think it was child he said, but dont quote me

Edit; just found this, backs it up a bit http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5h9W0a1eNkkXhyZYSWlvN9YbJTRiw

und another ; http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0205/osearcaigh.html

InVikingWeTrust

oh tis a good one!!!!

Piste

I hope he's not taken off, Níl aon Ní is one of the easier poems and there's a good bit to write about.

JSK 252

He's not being taken off because the current syllabus is for 2006-2009.

If the aligations about him are justified then I will have no respect for his poetry again.

Cokehead Mother

JSK 252 wrote: »

If the aligations about him are justified then I will have no respect for his poetry again.

That's just stupid tbh.

Fad

id say if its proven he'll be removed I HATE NIL AON NI!!!!

Fad

and any mention of his name there is a chorus of ''PEDO'' (im in the top honours and this still happens )

lilmissprincess

No matter what the man has done, he's written the two simplest poems on the course so i hope he's still on for 2009...

How so Joe

I think he should stay on the course.
Like, one of his poems is about a prostitute, and they're complaining about him having sex with people who are OVER the age of consent?
I really don't see what the problem is. If he were sleeping with a sixteen year old English girl, or boy, there wouldn't be half the fuss.
Most of the people in my class were convinced it's paedophilia, but it's not. Paedophilia is sexual attraction to someone who is pre-pubescent, and sixteen is very, very rarely pre-pubescent, right?
I really don't see what the fuss is about.
The sex life of a poet has no bearing on their poetry, and it's not like he was doing anything illegal, or even wrong.
Admittedly, a 51 year old and a 16 year old is slightly creepy, I can see that, but at 16 one is able to make informed decisions about sex. He was hardly taking advantage of a child.

JSK 252

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

That's just stupid tbh.

How is that stupid? So your telling me you would have respect for a guy who has been having inappropriate sexual relations with children? Including his poetry?

timmywex

How so Joe wrote: »

I think he should stay on the course.
Like, one of his poems is about a prostitute, and they're complaining about him having sex with people who are OVER the age of consent?
I really don't see what the problem is. If he were sleeping with a sixteen year old English girl, or boy, there wouldn't be half the fuss.
Most of the people in my class were convinced it's paedophilia, but it's not. Paedophilia is sexual attraction to someone who is pre-pubescent, and sixteen is very, very rarely pre-pubescent, right?
I really don't see what the fuss is about.
The sex life of a poet has no bearing on their poetry, and it's not like he was doing anything illegal, or even wrong.
Admittedly, a 51 year old and a 16 year old is slightly creepy, I can see that, but at 16 one is able to make informed decisions about sex. He was hardly taking advantage of a child.

I agree, but considering the students reading his poetry would be around that age also, if probably the reason for doing anything, if they do in the future, chances are they will just ommit him from the next syllabus/cirriculum

How so Joe

JSK 252 wrote: »

How is that stupid? So your telling me you would have respect for a guy who has been having inappropriate sexual relations with children? Including his poetry?

It is alleged that he has had sexual relations with teenagers who were above the age of consent.
It's not really inappropriate, and they're not children. They're capable of making informed decisions, and it's not like he forced any of them!

How so Joe

timmywex wrote: »

I agree, but considering the students reading his poetry would be around that age also, if probably the reason for doing anything, if they do in the future, chances are they will just ommit him from the next syllabus/cirriculum

True, it is likely that he'll be taken off the course from 2010, but I think it's a bit extreme, tbh.
It's not like his poetry advocates sex with 16 year olds.

JC 2K3

You don't just stop respecting a work of literature because the writer turns out to be a criminal.

In any case, he hasn't been proven guilty of anything....

JSK 252

How so Joe wrote: »

It is alleged that he has had sexual relations with teenagers who were above the age of consent.
It's not really inappropriate, and they're not children. They're capable of making informed decisions, and it's not like he forced any of them!

You do realise that there have been reports floating around that he has been having relations with people under the age of consent aswell and it was where I was basing my stories from? Whether this is justified is another story.

JSK 252

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You don't just stop respecting a work of literature because the writer turns out to be a criminal.

In any case, he hasn't been proven guilty of anything....

So you would still get his autograph if you saw him on the street? Fair enough I suppose sure Im always wrong.



He hasnt denied it either.

How so Joe

JSK 252 wrote: »

So you would still get his autograph if you saw him on the street? Fair enough I suppose sure Im always wrong.



He hasnt denied it either.

He has denied having sex with underage boys, not that he had sex with any boys. There's no reason for him to deny having sex, it's a normal part of life, but the underage thing, he has denied.
It doesn't change that he's a skilled Irish poet though.

JSK 252 wrote: »

You do realise that there have been reports floating around that he has been having relations with people under the age of consent aswell and it was where I was basing my stories from? Whether this is justified is another story.

I don't think it's fair to judge him based on allegations. He's not denying that he had sex, I don't think it'd be possible for him to do that, but there has been no factual evidence that any of the boys were underage.
Admittedly, there's been no proof that they weren't, but charges haven't even been put to him yet!

JSK 252

Ye are not getting what Im at. Feck this ****e.

Cokehead Mother

JSK 252 wrote: »

How is that stupid? So your telling me you would have respect for a guy who has been having inappropriate sexual relations with children? Including his poetry?

What he has or hasn't done doesn't change his poetry in any way.

How so Joe

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

What he has or hasn't done doesn't change his poetry in any way.

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

Casserine

Whether or not the allegations are true, it shouldn't impact on his poetry. Artists need to have a little distance from their work. If you do your research, you'd be surprised how many of your favourite artists, writers, musicians and sportspeople aren't saints in real life.

EamonnKeane

Is Oscar Wilde banned from English then? (Before you complain, he established rapprochements with young and very young men in Paris towards the end of his life)

jayteecork

guys, seriously, forget about studying him.
There is absolutely no way in hell they are going to ask a question about him after what was printed in the Irish Examiner today.

jayteecork

"but there has been no factual evidence that any of the boys were underage."

Lol. put that down as an "oxymoron" in your leaving cert English paper.
lmao. solid gold that.

JC 2K3

JSK 252 wrote: »

So you would still get his autograph if you saw him on the street? Fair enough I suppose sure Im always wrong.

Just because my respect for the person diminished wouldn't mean my respect for the work they produced would diminish.

Cokehead Mother

jayteecork wrote: »

guys, seriously, forget about studying him.
There is absolutely no way in hell they are going to ask a question about him after what was printed in the Irish Examiner today.

Why wouldn't they?

boobookitty

Nil Aon Ni is an easy poem. So easy to give imagery, contrast, main points etc

I'm confused, will he still be on for this years (2008) LC?

Fad

How so Joe wrote: »

not that he had sex with any boys

yes he did he openly admitted to that:rolleyes:

Fad

How so Joe wrote: »

Admittedly, a 51 year old and a 16 year old is slightly creepy, I can see that, but at 16 one is able to make informed decisions about sex.

i dont agree with that at all!
i dont think that most 16 year olds are emotionally equipped to decide about sex at 16,
phallic-ly equipped? perhaps:p

[sorry about the second double post ]

Marshy

JSK 252 wrote: »

If the aligations about him are justified then I will have no respect for his poetry again.

As has been said that makes no sense whatsoever.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Just because my respect for the person diminished wouldn't mean my respect for the work they produced would diminish.

QFT

JSK 252

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You don't just stop respecting a work of literature because the writer turns out to be a criminal.

In any case, he hasn't been proven guilty of anything....

Ó Searcaigh is an outstanding poet – playful, open, ebullient, unafraid of the colours of language, shockingly honest and raw when necessary and a tender, gifted love poet ... Out in the Open is not just a publication, it’s a celebration and a collection to leave one breathless.

- Dermot Bolger, The Tribune

Very Ironic isnt it?:rolleyes: This guy is dodgy.

JSK 252

How so Joe wrote: »

It is alleged that he has had sexual relations with teenagers who were above the age of consent.
It's not really inappropriate, and they're not children. They're capable of making informed decisions, and it's not like he forced any of them!

Just to add, where I come from we find it sick and disgusting for a 50 something year-old to have his way with a 16 year old and I find it repulsive to be quite honest.

JC 2K3

JSK 252 wrote: »

Ó Searcaigh is an outstanding poet – playful, open, ebullient, unafraid of the colours of language, shockingly honest and raw when necessary and a tender, gifted love poet ... Out in the Open is not just a publication, it’s a celebration and a collection to leave one breathless.

- Dermot Bolger, The Tribune

Very Ironic isnt it?:rolleyes: This guy is dodgy.

I'm not understanding the relevence to the quote by me you were replying to.

Again, just because a poet is a dodgy character doesn't mean his poetry should be less respected.

Gowranistan

I think it's simply nepalling..... yuk yuk. They won't be able to take him off at this late stage. If they do take him off the course it will be for 2009.

Killaqueen!!!

He was interviewed and he denied having sex with underage boys but he admitted to having sex with 16 years olds.

I think it's sick that people on here think that a 51 year old having sex with 16 year old boys is acceptable. Disgusting. Most 16 year olds are not capable of dealing with sex at that age.

Oh, and on the radio they were also saying that boys who were interviewed, they said that O Searcaigh had asked them to..do stuff with him. But they didn't know what he meant. They didn't know what sex was. How is this ok to people? How can you have respect for such a man?

And why don't people want him off the course? All the Irish poems on the LC are sh1te, including his.

JSK 252

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

He was interviewed and he denied having sex with underage boys but he admitted to having sex with 16 years olds.

I think it's sick that people on here think that a 51 year old having sex with 16 year old boys is acceptable. Disgusting. Most 16 year olds are not capable of dealing with sex at that age.

Oh, and on the radio they were also saying that boys who were interviewed, they said that O Searcaigh had asked them to..do stuff with him. But they didn't know what he meant. They didn't know what sex was. How is this ok to people? How can you have respect for such a man?

And why don't people want him off the course? All the Irish poems on the LC are sh1te, including his.

Somebody is talking sense for once.;);)

Yah they were discussing it on liveline and the people who were ringing Joe Duffy who are neighbours of his up in Donegal had some VERY good stories to tell about this guy, thats if any of ye who think its grand to take advantage of a 16 year old cared to listen to it.

JC 2K3

Oh FFS.

Ó Searcaigh's poems are of high enough standard to be on the Leaving. Why would you take them off the Leaving because the poet is a dodgy character? Respecting a man's poetry is not the same thing as respecting the man. Being against removing them from the LC syllabus is not the same thing as respecting the man. What you think of a 50 year old having sex with a 16 year old is utterly irrelevant.

On a side note to Killaqueen!!!, just because you don't like the poems on the Irish LC course(probably because you just don't like Irish in general), doesn't mean they're shíte. Personally, I didn't like Ó Searcaigh's poems, but, for example, I loved Oíche Nollag na mBan by Seán Ó Riordán and it's one of my favourite poems in any language.

Killaqueen!!!

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Oh FFS.

Ó Searcaigh's poems are of high enough standard to be on the Leaving. Why would you take them off the Leaving because the poet is a dodgy character? Respecting a man's poetry is not the same thing as respecting the man. Being against removing them from the LC syllabus is not the same thing as respecting the man. What you think of a 50 year old having sex with a 16 year old is utterly irrelevant.

On a side note to Killaqueen!!!, just because you don't like the poems on the Irish LC course(probably because you just don't like Irish in general), doesn't mean they're shíte. Personally, I didn't like Ó Searcaigh's poems, but, for example, I loved Oíche Nollag na mBan by Seán Ó Riordán and it's one of my favourite poems in any language.

So, poetry by, say, Hitler would be acceptable on the Leaving Cert. syllabus? I'm using extremes here because you're not getting it. If Hitler wrote a poem, that was of "high enough standard to be on the Leaving", you would have respect for his poetry? I simply don't understand how one can have respect for such a persons work, just as I don't understand how one can respect work from a man who sleeps with 16 year old boys. And if they are 16 years old, I assume he wouldn't mind sleeping with boys younger than that either.

And why do you think I don't like Irish in general? It happens to be one of my favourite languages (granted, I don't know many). Not my favourite subject though because I think it's taught horribly in schools. But just because I don't like the poems on the LC doesn't mean I don't like Irish.

Why do you like the Irish poems? Because they're simple, and easy to understand? I don't actually know Irish poetry apart from the ones on the LC course (haven't done the one you've mentioned yet though), but I can only assume there's better ones than a short story of a supposed madman on the bus, or a poem about a lad with nice hair called Jack. Seriously, there must be better works than those?

JC 2K3

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

So, poetry by, say, Hitler would be acceptable on the Leaving Cert. syllabus? I'm using extremes here because you're not getting it. If Hitler wrote a poem, that was of "high enough standard to be on the Leaving", you would have respect for his poetry?

Of course. As long as it was of high enough standard and didn't promote any skewed ideals like anti-semitism or fascism.

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

I simply don't understand how one can have respect for such a persons work, just as I don't understand how one can respect work from a man who sleeps with 16 year old boys. And if they are 16 years old, I assume he wouldn't mind sleeping with boys younger than that either.

Sylvia Plath committed suicide and left 2 children behind her. I don't have respect for her because of that, but I have immense respect for her poetry. Should she be taken off the Leaving because her actions were extremely inconsiderate and wrong? I don't think so.

Ó Searcaigh's poems don't promote sex with underagers and they are considered of high enough standard to be on the Leaving. His personal life is irrelevant.

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

Why do you like the Irish poems? Because they're simple, and easy to understand? I don't actually know Irish poetry apart from the ones on the LC course (haven't done the one you've mentioned yet though), but I can only assume there's better ones than a short story of a supposed madman on the bus, or a poem about a lad with nice hair called Jack. Seriously, there must be better works than those?

They're the ordinary level poems. If you're doing higher level, you do those easy ones first and then more onto the tougher, but infinitely more interesting stuff. They're as challenging and deep as the poems on the English course. If you're doing OL, then I'm afraid you're stuck with only these crap poems.

passive

jayteecork wrote: »

"but there has been no factual evidence that any of the boys were underage."

Lol. put that down as an "oxymoron" in your leaving cert English paper.
lmao. solid gold that.

Where's the oxymoron there?

JSK 252 wrote: »

Very Ironic isnt it?:rolleyes:

No. It isn't.

ZorbaTehZ

What about the poetry of Oscar Wilde? Would you guys have a problem studying that? It's generally accepted that he had multiple sexual relations with young boys during his life time. I can think of lots of other poets too, who have commited acts far more questionable than what O searcaigh is accused of.

JSK 252

passive wrote: »

Where's the oxymoron there?



No. It isn't.

Did you even click on the attachement? The title is enough not to mind the illustrations.