159 Cruise Control update

smcgiff

This is the email I sent early this morning - 'Just wondering – Has the application of Cruise Control changed from what the manual states? I can’t seem to work it.

Someone I talked to said that it’s not unknown for Cruise Control to fitted post delivery. Is that what’s to happen?

Other than that the car is a beautiful machine. BTW, thanks for the tank of diesel.'

The response I got back was that Cruise Control is not standard with the TI. And that the website does not say it's standard. He also made an unflattering remark about those that want Cruise Control (my guess is that he doesn't say the same thing to those that order up front). He also said it cannot be retro fitted.

We're a couple of emails in now (starting off very gently). The final email I sent showed him where it says on the website that it's standard with the TI.

I said if it's not possible to retro fit the CC I would be open to suggestion re a deal on servicing. So far no take up on that.

He's yet to come back on my last email where I showed him where CC is standard with the TI. I also mentioned I've written proof it's standard. I've also said (later email) that this was not the car I ordered.

He obviously thinks I'm going to fold and go away, but I've news for him. But this is really par for the course in my experience when it comes to dealing with Marques. I've had a horrible history with them. It also meant buying another SAAB was not an option. Burn me once and you wont get repeat custom.

I'm up the walls at work, but may need to find time to phone.

Lex Luthor

I see Alfa after care service is still back in the 80's

What dealer did you use?

smcgiff

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I see Alfa after care service is still back in the 80's

What dealer did you use?

I'll send you a PM Lex.

Lex Luthor

I just had a look on the alfaromeo.ie and the specifications of the 159.

The 2.4JTDm seems to be only available on the Sportivo Spec and only the Sportivo seems to have cc as standard. Veloce & Turismo have it as a €416 option.

What is the TI spec relative to these?

su_dios

Hmm sounds like a typical salesman to be honest. Oh and from experience, garages will say they cannot retrofit something for you when in fact you can. They just might not have done it before or know the car in question well enough. Cruise control is a simple enough piece of kit and should only involve getting the stalk via parts department and connecting it to the loom that should be already present. If you are unhappy about this ring some other garages and get their opinion from the salesmen on the CC being standard and from parts of having it fitted. You may get a different story.

I know it is not completely relevant but on my last car I was thinking of fitting one and there was a guide on how to do it. They even use an alfa 147 CC stalk. So just to show it can be done here.

I would not see why it would be too different from a fiat to an alfa. Only thing might be is that the 159 has a good bit of General Motors in it.

smcgiff

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I just had a look on the alfaromeo.ie and the specifications of the 159.

The 2.4JTDm seems to be only available on the Sportivo Spec and only the Sportivo seems to have cc as standard. Veloce & Turismo have it as a €416 option.

What is the TI spec relative to these?

It's the highest. If you go into pricing and highlight the 2.4 TI option €47,450 and go down to standard let me know what you see. Just for independent verification and I'm not going totally nuts.

smcgiff

su_dios wrote: »

Hmm sounds like a typical salesman to be honest. Oh and from experience, garages will say they cannot retrofit something for you when in fact you can. They just might not have done it before or know the car in question well enough. Cruise control is a simple enough piece of kit and should only involve getting the stalk via parts department and connecting it to the loom that should be already present. If you are unhappy about this ring some other garages and get their opinion from the salesmen on the CC being standard and from parts of having it fitted. You may get a different story.

I know it is not completely relevant but on my last car I was thinking of fitting one and there was a guide on how to do it. They even use an alfa 147 CC stalk. So just to show it can be done here.

I would not see why it would be too different from a fiat to an alfa. Only thing might be is that the 159 has a good bit of General Motors in it.

Cheers Su Dios!

E92

This is not good, when you buy a new car and are waiting 10 weeks to get one to your spec then it should be exactly what you asked for.

If it is possible to get cruise control retrofitted, then the OP should make them get it retrofitted at no cost to the OP.

In the UK, you can reject a car that is not to the spec you ordered, I wonder do we have the same law?

fabsoul

smcgiff wrote: »

It's the highest. If you go into pricing and highlight the 2.4 TI option €47,450 and go down to standard let me know what you see. Just for independent verification and I'm not going totally nuts.

yes it said cruise control standard

http://showroom.alfaromeo.ie/configurator.asp?model=159&version=1?categoryOID=-1073798920

smcgiff

E92 wrote: »

In the UK, you can reject a car that is not to the spec you ordered, I wonder do we have the same law?

I imagine it's fairly straight forward. It's not the car I ordered, so...

But hopefully it'll not come to this.

smcgiff

fabsoul wrote: »

yes it said cruise control standard

http://showroom.alfaromeo.ie/configurator.asp?model=159&version=1?categoryOID=-1073798920

Good to know I'm not going insane. Mad yes, but not insane!

mvpr

E92 wrote: »

In the UK, you can reject a car that is not to the spec you ordered, I wonder do we have the same law?

The answer to this is yes - simple contract law. Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act goods must be "as described". That means that if the spec sheet when you ordered said the car should have CC fitted as standard and it hasnt been fitted, the car is not as described.

Remedies for this case will be limited to monetary compensation I'd imagine. Perhaps the service costs suggested above. There's no way a court would make them take the car back just because its missing CC.

To the OP - I've been following your posts with interest, though perhaps you should cool off the public posting until some arrangement has been made (or refused) between yourself and Alfa. Its only fair to them.

chris85

Hope they get it sorted quick for you OP. The money you shelled out for the car and you would think they would get it right.

Could be honest mistake and hopefully it is and gets sorted

Lex Luthor

smcgiff wrote: »

It's the highest. If you go into pricing and highlight the 2.4 TI option €47,450 and go down to standard let me know what you see. Just for independent verification and I'm not going totally nuts.

ya cc is standard on your model

DonJose

Even the e-brouchure says its standard on your model (page 7). I'd contact the main distributors.

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/ALFAROMEO_IRELAND/uploads/1006/1074077362/20061201/159_CT_IRL_27.10.06v2.2.pdf

JHMEG

Websites and brochures will usually have "E&OE", ie "we won't stand over anything in this publication"...

Lex Luthor

OP, if you want the cc, pursue it. I know the dealer you are referring to and basically they are a bunch of nitwits.

If you don't want it then demand a refund of €416

From what it seems like to me, is that there was a cock up back at the factory and the stalk wasn't fitted. Your dealer obviously has no clue and doesn't think it can be fitted even though it probably can.

Take it to Alfa Ireland if you don't get any satisfaction from them. You've just forked out 55k on a car to be treated like this. I would demand serious satisfaction if I were you

Lex Luthor

JHMEG wrote: »

Websites and brochures will usually have "E&OE", ie "we won't stand over anything in this publication"...

does that mean they can stick whatever they like on the car and shrug their shoulders when you come back & query it....???

F that.

pow wow

Lex Luthor wrote: »

does that mean they can stick whatever they like on the car and shrug their shoulders when you come back & query it....???

F that.

In a way. A smiliar thing happened when I was buying a car not too long ago, the manager at the dealership said the lad doing up the specs 'forgot to untick that box' and because it was E&Oed I had no recourse. I kicked and got a free service, but I'll be much more careful in the future.

agent_smith

Im sorry to hear your bad luck. Can you PM me the dealer that caused you this hassle. I want to stay well clear of a dealer that treats a customer like that.

promethius

Why PM the name of the dealer? Should it not be put up here so we can see how they treat this customer? If they do a good job on fixing the situation then fair enough, if not at least other people will be going in there with their eyes open. Could the final inspection at alfa have really missed something that was so obvious and easy to check? Would raise the question of what else they could miss if something like this passes through unnoticed all the way to the customer. I'm not knocking alfa just asking a simple question. It's a fine looking car by the way.

Lex Luthor

agent_smith wrote: »

Im sorry to hear your bad luck. Can you PM me the dealer that caused you this hassle. I want to stay well clear of a dealer that treats a customer like that.

its not the first time they have behaved like this....my sis had 1st hand experience of them aswell...

I suppose them being the only local dealer for about 60-70 miles makes them think they have that area sewn up

I see their own website has the Standard & Options details of your car removed...is that a recent thing?

fletch

Just reading this over on octane.ie.

Released November 5, and effective December 1, 2007, Alfa Romeo has announced changes for the 159 model range. Limited Edition versions are no longer available.

TI trim introduced for 2.2 JTS, 2.4 JTD and 3.2 Q4 versions, which includes the following specifications:
- 19" Pneus alloy wheels
- sports suspension
- sports body kit
- chrome door mirrors
- heated sports black leather seats
- 6/40 split rear seat
- cruise control (optional)
Not sure where octane.ie got their information from. Perhaps drop eob or Toad a PM over there as he might know

Edit - sorry if this has been posted before, I haven't read both threads

Guy:Incognito

OP said he was waiting 10 weeks so would have ordered before 1st Dec.

Lex Luthor

Do Octane have a E&OE disclaimer also?

milltown

Just a thought, and it too may have been suggested on the other thread, why not ring a different (more well regarded) dealer and talk to the service dept. Say you bought this car but would like to have cruise control fitted when it's in for a service with them. See if they think it's possible or not.

It doesn't sound like you will anyway, but don't give in on this. Apart from the cruise control I would be pushing for a service or something by way of compensation for the shoddy service you've had to endure.

jimmycrackcorm

This is Deja vu for me. I bought a new 156 a few years ago and I was surprised that it didn't include cruise control when the brochure said it was supposed to have it. I test drove mine and didn't think to check for it before purchase.

It was only a few days after that I thought about it and was disappointed to hear that it had been taken off the standard list. I didn't follow it up because basically I had seen the car before I bought.

Lex Luthor

if you still want cc on your 156, I think this crowd have a unit that will work on the Alfa

-Chris-

Did you state clearly to the salesperson that you really needed cruise control (I thought in your other thread that you said you did), and did they reassure you that the car they were ordering for you had it?

If so then throw all the toys out of the pram. Escalate it to their manager. Don't put too many miles on the car because by continuing to drive it you're indicating you're satisfied to take the car (although you may not have the option of another car). Shout from the highest mountain.

If not, then tread carefully. The dealer will want to mollify a clearly upset customer, and a few hundred quid may be a small price to pay for your continued business. But if you're not 100% water-tight in the right and you're an ass about it, then you'll get no help - just like any other service industry.

Lex Luthor

any update smcgiff?

Turbulent Bill

The CC might actually be worth more than the original option price at resale if it was accidentally ommited. For example, a buyer specifically looking for that trim level would be very dubious about buying the car if the CC is missing, i.e., what other problems could it have? You might get a much lower sale price because of the uncertainty, even if the car is fine.

kluivert

Your covered under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980.

You didnt get what you ordered and therefore you are entitled to a refund or replace.

End of story.

JHMEG

Lex Luthor wrote: »

does that mean they can stick whatever they like on the car and shrug their shoulders when you come back & query it....???

F that.

It means what I said: they won't stand over a brochure, and certainly not over a website.

The spec of the car would be confirmed in writing at the time the order was placed I would imagine.

JHMEG

kluivert wrote: »

You didnt get what you ordered

It sounds like the OP assumed cc was standard.

Anan1

JHMEG wrote: »

It means what I said: they won't stand over a brochure, and certainly not over a website.

The spec of the car would be confirmed in writing at the time the order was placed I would imagine.

I don't think that would stand up in court. If it's in the brochure then the buyer has a reasonable right to expect that it will be on the car.

delly

Being a company car driver since 18, I've never signed for a new car, but when you do, does it include a spec sheet etc.?

Lex Luthor

delly wrote: »

Being a company car driver since 18, I've never signed for a new car, but when you do, does it include a spec sheet etc.?

nope. All it has is the car make/model and version..no list of extras or what is standard is listed

smcgiff

Sorry guys, only now catching up - The joys of the finance Month end in a new job...

Some good news (maybe). I got an email back from the dealer in reply to my email where I pointed it out where the website said the Cruise Control was Standard. He said it was an error, and has passed it onto Fiat Ireland. He CC'd me on the email yesterday late afternoon, but have not heard back from FIAT Ireland so far.

I imagine (and this is why I don't want to publicise the particular dealer - did I mention he gave me a full tank of Diesel? ) the Alfa Dealer was not aware it was standard. Although as I've pointed there is mention of it as standard in two separate places.

However, I've not heard back from Fiat Ireland yet. The Brochure does not have a E&OE written on it anywhere.

I'd be happy with a retro fit.

So, good news perhaps.

JHMEG

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't think that would stand up in court.

It would, for two simple reasons:
1. The manufacturer does not compile the brochure, a publishing company does
2. The manufacturer does not print the brochure, a printer does

Mistakes can be made at either of these, for which the manufacturer is not liable.

Anan1

JHMEG wrote: »

It would, for two simple reasons:
1. The manufacturer does not compile the brochure, a publishing company does
2. The manufacturer does not print the brochure, a printer does

Mistakes can be made at either of these, for which the manufacturer is not liable.

I don't think that who printed the brochure makes any difference. The manufacturer provided it to the OP.

JHMEG

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't think that who printed the brochure makes any difference. The manufacturer provided it to the OP.

Either way a judge isn't going to hold a company to something they did not produce themselves.

kluivert

OP was CC on the order that was placed with the dealer.

Normally do they a print out for you.

Section by section showing standard equipment and optional extras that you have ordered.

dave2pvd

JHMEG wrote: »

Either way a judge isn't going to hold a company to something they did not produce themselves.

Is that a legal opinion or just an opinion?

smcgiff: keep in mind that your sales contract is with the Alfa dealer. You might want to keep your communications with this dealer, not with FIAT Ireland.

I hope you can get this sorted out. Poor customer service by the dealer. But then again, most dealers seem to do a poor job.

prospect

Sorry to hear about your situation O.P., I am also curious which dealer it is.

My Dad ordered a 159 last year, a 2.4Jtd (which has C.C.) in Oltramare Blue and a certain leather & alloys etc. The thing arrived with a 1.9 engine in it!!!!
They gave him a courtesy 159 until his car was built with the correct engine.

The way I look at it is this. You had a deal withthe garage, you give them €XX,xxx and they give you the car, with all the various bits included.
They got your money, but you didn't get the car & extras, so therefore there is three courses of action:

1. They add in the missing extras
2. They get you another car with all the extras
3. They refund you fully

Regarding the website error, that is B.S. as the information is also on the E-Brochure.

MercMad

I dont think the fact that an external printer was involved would excuse the fact that an option is missing. It would have been up to someone at AR to proof read it all, and the printers are hardly going to make stuff up themselves and include things randomly !

I expect this will all be all sorted out by the dealer who IMO has nothing to lose as I assume Alfa deleted or omitted CC when building the car !

JHMEG

dave2pvd wrote: »

Is that a legal opinion or just an opinion?

Do you think otherwise?

dave2pvd

It doesn't matter what I think.

Any printed material used by the manufacturer in the marketing of the car is the responsibility of the manufacturer. The onus is on them to have proper internal controls to ensure that all publications conform to the product being sold.

The dealer is liable for breach of contract. Plain and simple. You may be entitled to (i) a full refund or (ii) monetary compensation or (iii) your car upgraded to the as-described spec or (iv) a replacement car. Don't accept a credit note.

The E&OE clause is an attempt to limit liability. However, The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act is a bigger stick.

I'm sure the dealer will eventually see the OP right.

Lex Luthor

just noticed that Alfraromeo.ie have changed the spec on your model online to reflect cruise control as an optional extra.

They are moving fast. I hope you have a copy of the 2007 spec model.

dave2pvd

Oooooo....could be construed as an admission of error on their part. Very interesting!

:cool:

Lex Luthor

dave2pvd wrote: »

Oooooo....could be construed as an admission of error on their part. Very interesting!

:cool:

I think they have just been slow to update the website as it appears the 2008 model has cc only as an option, but since the OP ordered in 2007, they should be covered.

Seems they were given a 2008 car, but still can't see it being a problem to get it fitted. The dealer is talking pish, because if its available as an option, then it has all the necessary wiring installed.

dave2pvd

Lex Luthor wrote: »

The dealer is talking pish, because if its available as an option, then it has all the necessary wiring installed.

Yeah, but car sales men don't know such technical things.

I swear that of all the sales people in all the world, it is the car salesperson that knows his/her product the least. For instance, how many could definitively tell you if a car in question is fwd or rwd? multivalve? service mileage interval? t-belt or chain? petrol octane requirement? Synth or dino oil needed? I could go on. But I might be accused of ranting, which would be OffT.

Back OnT:

OP, any news?