Would the world be a better place without religion?

AckwelFoley

Personally i think it would.

I received a warning for stating this in a thread about, "would the world be a better place if we were all Muslims"

My reply was..

Would the world be a better place if we were all muslims?

lol, no.


The world would be a better place without all religion, it would remove 1 more reason for people to kill each other.

Granted the i seem to have broken the froum charter, so the moderator was entitled to give me an infraction, if he so pleased hence im not in feedback moaning about it, and kudos to him for not, to me a warning serves the same purpose to my fragile ego, however i believe it is a pretty valid point and not intended as trolling..

So my question, is religious faith a benefit to the world or a not?

WindSock

Itwould be better if man didn't interfere with the work and words of God, if there are any.

SingingCherry

I voted yes, but upon thinking about it, I think I answered too quickly. The world goes to ****e because of greed and difference of opinion...but mostly greed. There would still easily be both without religion. Sure, some problems would clear up, but there are enough problems that have nothing to do with religion.

kryogen

ehh, i think south park expanded on this topic before in an episode that made me piss myself!

personally, i think the world would be better if there was no religion, but i think its in human nature to make war with our neighbour, sonce the dawn of civilisation we have been fighting and killing each other, we are the only mammal on this planet that commits murder of our own species....

i dont see religion as neccessary anymore as most things can be explained by science, however i understand that some people still need to believe in something and i have no problem with that either.....

religion itself isnt actually the problem, people who want to make war for their own reasons use religion as a banner for what they are doing, but if there was no religion they would find another banner to wage war under....

i am in danger of going off on one and actually discussing something important to me here!!!!! lol end.

You're clearly forgetting that we would fight over whether we should call ourselves the Allied Atheist Alliance, the United Atheist Alliance or the Unified Atheist League....

fuzzywiggle

Some people get a lot (a hell of a lot) of happiness and comfort from their religion. I don't think it would be a better place without it.

AckwelFoley

Deleted User wrote: »

we would fight over whether we should call ourselves the Allied Atheist Alliance, the United Atheist Alliance or the Unified Atheist League....

Agreed. Thats why i said .. "1 less reason"

Catari Jaguar

What about peaceful religions like Buddhism and Shintoism or even Wicca?

Maybe if it was ORGANISED man controlled religions (Catholicism, Islam, Scientology if that counts...) then yes.

meathstevie

Bit of a pointless discussion realy. If it wasn't religion we'd come up with some other belief system to create in and out groups. I.e. communism, nazism, liberalism, racism... . In a social sence they're badges you wear to identify with others and differentiate from people who don't subscribe to the creed of your tribe.

Folks please don't think the grass is always greener on the other side in relation to Buddhism etc. Our old good ( I'm not religious at all ) christianity, if you follow the rules, and the teachings of philosophers who've expanded the basics is about the most non-violent belief system you'll ever encounter. The restrictions on the legitimate use of violence are so strong that the concept of selfdefence is about the best description possible. Note also the strong emphasis on forgiveness as a means of conflict resolution. But when push comes to shove nobody as good as Johnny Human to pervert the rules and go on the rampage.

AckwelFoley

meathstevie wrote: »

Bit of a pointless discussion realy. If it wasn't religion we'd come up with some other belief system to create in and out groups. I.e. communism, nazism, liberalism, racism... . In a social sence they're badges you wear to identify with others and differentiate from people who don't subscribe to the creed of your tribe.

refer to post 7

Pepe LeFrits

But if there was no religion, who would protect the timechild from the sea otters?

AckwelFoley

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

But if there was no religion, who would protect the timechild from the sea otters?

The flying spagetti monster.

meathstevie

Doctor Who of course. Do yes realy know nothing ?

Sam Vimes

Lil Kitten wrote: »

What about peaceful religions like Buddhism and Shintoism or even Wicca?

Maybe if it was ORGANISED man controlled religions (Catholicism, Islam, Scientology if that counts...) then yes.

as i recall one of the main rules of islam, christianity, judaism etc is thou shalt not kill, which in theory makes them peaceful religions. history has shown otherwise. its not the religions themselves that encourage violence. people just use it as an excuse.

as they said in south park, people would find something else to fight over but it would be one less thing. and i think religion is something that people are more likely to fight over because no one can actually prove their religion is true because there is no proof for any of them, imo because they're all wrong. the arguments can't be settled with words because no one religion is more valid than any other so it comes down to violence

Lockstep

I'm not answering as neither response has any merit.

Religion has it's good and bad points.

It causes people to do good things( personally I've done things that would be considered "good" due to what I felt to be...oh I can't say God's will but thinking about God made me decide it was the right thing to do)

I don't think I've ever done anything bad as it was the religious thing to do.

Personally I think if someone thinks "God wants me to skin you alive" then...WTF?

Very few religions teach that, personally I think you'll be a screwed up person whether you use God or something else as an excuse

RandolphEsq

In the beginning (certainly in the West) religion gave people guidance and shed light onto questions of existence.
But now, like how a child outgrows it's dependence on it's parents, we in the West are starting to become less dependent on religion for answers

The guy

Hey why not just eliminate man's greatest enemy while we're at it, ourselves. :rolleyes:

Naikon

**** yes.
I understand the comforting factor of religion is the main reason why people cling to the notion, but as a human being it is far more important to drop the absurdity of all religions and devote both the time and resources to a better pursuit.

It's about time people started thinking on their own, making rational decisions and believing in themselves, not religious practices.
At one stage, I wanted Religion to be true, but believing in religion against overwhelming evidence against the notion does not make the outcome of death any different.

Religion deserves no more respect than any other irrational belief.
Religion is simply not required in the 21st century.

Dave!

Can't imagine it would make much of a difference to be honest. People would just find another reason/excuse to kill each other. Maybe people should just stop believing it because it's f*cking stupid.

Ross_Mahon

I don't believe in any religions,but i must say that the holy books all over the world have acted as 'Rule Books', and they teach people right from wrong. And they use techniques to scare people into being good.

leninbenjamin

Yes. and because of this i believe Religion will eventually die away. it's merely a series of primitive belief systems to explain the world when we had no other practical method of doing so. Useful in previous periods of humanity social evolution but nowadays just slows social and scientific progress.

having said that there is a sizable element who still seemingly would not be able to fully function in a fully interdependent society without it, so it's useful to an extent i guess.

WhiteWashMan

snyper wrote: »

Personally i think it would.

I received a warning for stating this in a thread about, "would the world be a better place if we were all Muslims"

My reply was..



Granted the i seem to have broken the froum charter, so the moderator was entitled to give me an infraction, if he so pleased hence im not in feedback moaning about it, and kudos to him for not, to me a warning serves the same purpose to my fragile ego, however i believe it is a pretty valid point and not intended as trolling..

So my question, is religious faith a benefit to the world or a not?

would the religion or philosophy or theology forums not seem a much better suited to this sort of debate than AH?

seriously, whats with all the rubbish in AH this week?

WhiteWashMan

snyper wrote: »

Personally i think it would.

why do you think that?

at least put a fcuking argument together. jesus christ!

leninbenjamin

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

seriously, whats with all the rubbish in AH this week?

surely you mean what's with the lack of rubbish in AH this week?

Overheal

Whats worse for religion: Tom Cruise, or Mel Gibson?

Dord

Yes, I think the world would be a better place without religion. Religion and morals are two seperate things.

layke

As science advance the unknown gaps shrink. Religion tends to try and fill those gaps with god so it just over time keeps proving more and more religion is false. But religion will never die away. Ever. Some people need it, and a lot ignore blatant evidence that it's a load of bull.

Again, it's a bunch intelligent animals (ourselves) with an ideology that we are bigger then we are (our divine heritage).

So I consider it waste of time and resources and can see no benefit from it whatsoever.The point was made some people can do good things because of it but as my mother told me don't kill rape or steal, I haven't I don't need a church to tell me that. On that note I believe historically it's done far more evil then good.

Lockstep

layke wrote: »

Some people need it, and a lot ignore blatant evidence that it's a load of bull.

What evidence is this then?




I can see this becoming yet another Religion vs Antireligion.

Sam Vimes

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

I don't believe in any religions,but i must say that the holy books all over the world have acted as 'Rule Books', and they teach people right from wrong. And they use techniques to scare people into being good.

Religion doesn't teach people morality. Morality existed before religion. It just makes people follow rules because they're afraid of hell, rather than because its the right thing to do

leninbenjamin

kickoutthejams wrote: »

What evidence is this then?

While not yet empirically proved String theory is one possibility. There's a (growing) minority who feel that the fundamentals of this can be linked to an explanation of "God".

Lockstep

leninbenjamin wrote: »

While not yet empirically proved String theory is one possibility. There's a (growing) minority who feel that the fundamentals of this can be linked to an explanation of "God".

Care to elaborate?

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah.

wes

I don't think things would change much at all. Human beings will still go to war for whatever the reason of the week is.

FunkZ

The only true answer here is Tony Robbens.

(I voted Atari Jaguar!)

olaola

Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes

You need religion to keep the mentalists in check.

seamus

Yes and no.

Religion has long been used as a vehicle for ideas, both good and bad. If you look at most of the major religions, specific incidences by individuals or small groups tend to be bad whereas the movement as a whole tends towards good and tends to exert an influence on its members as a whole for the better.

I'm currently debating with myself as to whether we as humans tend towards community and peace or tend towards greed and violence. It would seem that peace and community is the preferred way of life, however it only takes a small set of circumstances or specific individuals to turn that into greed. I can't decide whether we would over time have built today's civilisation without religion, or whether the religious influence of specific individuals, most notably Jesus, pointed us in this direction.

I'm not saying that those who grow up without religion are destined to be immoral, but I don't know that without religious intervention in the past 5000 years, we wouldn't think twice before ripping eachother apart.

Many people find comfort in having religion fill in the gaps and having someone else say, "I have the answer" rather than try to think about it themselves. This is the very essence of religion's survival.

Every major religion which relies on hierarchy and followers though has failed to adapt to new thinking and new discoveries. As we find the actual answers to questions, there's a reluctance to go, "Oh, I was wrong". Instead they opt to ignore the real answer, swear that they're still right and embark on frankly ridiculous crusades to enforce their opinion rather than prove it.

This is why in my opinion, religion has made itself irrelevant and defunct. It's not that people have become less moral or have abandoned religion. Religion has abandoned its people and failed to reconsider itself in the face of modern thinking.
It's a new challenge for religion. The Law of Accelerating Returns implies that religions will have to re-evaluate themselves more and more often. Events requiring dogmatic change (such as the reformation) may have only occured every couple of hundred years before, but may occur every five years at the end of the century. Even now, we continually see the Catholic church failing to reflect a view shared by its followers and every new statement it makes, puts it further and further behind the morality of its people. Hierarchical religions will probably be completely unsustainable in future, whereas ones focussed on personal reflection and communal co-operation will thrive.

ScumLord

I think the world is probably a better place because of religion considering what we came from. Religion has always been about the search for answers, it has always been about understanding how the universe works and it has always recognised the value of life, understanding and forgiveness.

I wouldn't like to see what religious people turn to in the absence of religion considering how easily lead some of them are. Out of all the rules to live by we've used over the Milena religion is probably one of the better ones. On personal level it may not be that great but for keeping cultures in line it works great.

Dave!

seamus wrote: »

I'm not saying that those who grow up without religion are destined to be immoral, but I don't know that without religious intervention in the past 5000 years, we wouldn't think twice before ripping eachother apart.

What do you mean by this seamus? We do rip each other apart without thinking twice! Up to relatively recently (2 or 3 centuries, long after Christianity took a strong hold on Ireland) it was completely the norm for neighbours to be killing and raiding each other. We've certainly civilised to some degree, but while we talk all lovey dovey, there's still no doubt that murder and war are a popular pasttime for even the most religious of people (alot of Arab countries, Israel, USA). If it is relevent at all in these situations, religion has more likely increased the likelihood of war: Bush says god told him to go to war, Muslim suicide bombers carry out their actions safe in the knowledge that they're going to heaven for perpetual sex with virgins, Israelis are there because it's 'the promised land'.

Perhaps I misunderstood you

seamus

DaveMcG wrote: »

What do you mean by this seamus? We do rip each other apart without thinking twice!

Specifically we do, but as a whole we tend to abhor it. Most societies with any kind of stable governance have at the very least laws against murder and as a society see it as an enormous taboo.

While I do feel that even without religion, we would "dislike" murder, if Moses hadn't decided to scrawl it on some stone and call it the word of God, would we even consider it a crime to kill someone to get what we want? Would we condemn a man who kills his neighbour in order to take his daughter? Or would we just say "**** happens"?

User45701

There is a very simple way to remove religion, but it wont happen, world leaders would lose too much of their voter base.

The best and most logical thing to do would be make teaching anyone under the age of 16 anything about religion iligal. Then when child reaches 16 or 18 or whatever then the person would spend time with reps from each religion and a athiest.

Then the person makes up their own mind, no religious conditioning, do you all honnestly think that you have to be blessed or whatever at birth? bollox its because people knew back then that they would not need to convert anyone if they just conditioned them from birth.

Religion would then die out after one or two generations. Because noone who is of sound mind and judgement (or people who have been free of a tramautic event) who is 18 and is explained all this? do you think they would belive in religon? to them it would be like santa or the tooth fairy except they would be an adult when they learn about it, not a child being conditioned.

slipss

snyper wrote: »

Personally i think it would.

I received a warning for stating this in a thread about, "would the world be a better place if we were all Muslims"

My reply was..



Granted the i seem to have broken the froum charter, so the moderator was entitled to give me an infraction, if he so pleased hence im not in feedback moaning about it, and kudos to him for not, to me a warning serves the same purpose to my fragile ego, however i believe it is a pretty valid point and not intended as trolling..

So my question, is religious faith a benefit to the world or a not?

It has it's benefits and its problems. Most religions at their core teach a message of peace and respect and of do good things and you will be rewarded, do bad things and bad things will happen to you. These are good values to try and impart to each other and are the basis that allow civilisation to exist. Personally I think people believing that murder is evil is far more of a deterent than trying to scare people by saying if you murder someone we will punish you for it. Religion is essentially a device for laying down morals, in this it is a benefit to the world. Most of the problems arrise not from religion itsself but from people trying to turn it towards satisfying there own greed and lust for power and control. Did scumbags try to burn children to death in thier homes in Northern Ireland because they were Catholic children and the Protestants in question strongly disagreed with there religious views? No. If a huge wave of atheisim swept over the world would that mean all the muslim extremists in Iraq would stop blowing people apart? No. Would Hitler have decided that instead of murdering six million jews he would invite them around for a few pints ifhe had have been an atheist? No. Religion has very little if anything to do with nutcases teaching there children to hate people they feel threatened by or resentfull of. If the world was atheist the same psychos that strap bombs to mentally disabled women would still strap bombs to mentally diasabled women, they would just do it in the name of their country or ethnicity or family or any other cause that served there need at the time and allowed them to set themselves up in a position of power instead of in the name of there God or religion.

Ross_Mahon

2.3% of the world is atheist, lets just say every religion in the world declared atheists to be killed on the spot, would you pick up a gun and fight them? :rolleyes: Now theres a film idea....

stevenmu

BrightEyes wrote: »

In the beginning (certainly in the West) religion gave people guidance and shed light onto questions of existence.
But now, like how a child outgrows it's dependence on it's parents, we in the West are starting to become less dependent on religion for answers

Nowadays we have the internet to turn too instead

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

I don't believe in any religions,but i must say that the holy books all over the world have acted as 'Rule Books', and they teach people right from wrong. And they use techniques to scare people into being good.

Sounds very much like a modern legal system

leninbenjamin wrote: »

While not yet empirically proved String theory is one possibility. There's a (growing) minority who feel that the fundamentals of this can be linked to an explanation of "God".

I would be VERY interested to know how string theory disproves the existence of a "God"

purple'n'gold

Lil Kitten wrote: »

What about peaceful religions like Buddhism and Shintoism or even Wicca?

Maybe if it was ORGANISED man controlled religions (Catholicism, Islam, Scientology if that counts...) then yes.

Prior to WW2 Shinto was the state religion of Japan, and there was nothing peaceful about Japan in that era.

Lockstep

purplengold wrote: »

Prior to WW2 Shinto was the state religion of Japan, and there was nothing peaceful about Japan in that era.

I was gonna put the same thing, but then decided not to as I know so little about shintoism other than reading it was a warrior code with the Emporer as a divine being or something.

Lil kitten:
Keep in mind Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion.

seamus

slipss wrote: »

Would Hitler have decided that instead of murdering six million jews he would invite them around for a few pints ifhe had have been an atheist? No.

Well, perhaps. There was a documentary on last night, just saw a few minutes of it, but it suggested that Hitler had something of a messiah complex (obviously). He saw what he was doing as protecting himself and his people from the tyranny of the jews, because as Jesus was persecuted and murdered by the jews, so too were he and his people.

Nutjob clearly, but had he no religious upbringing, who's to say he wouldn't have been a simple watchmaker in Austria?

entropi

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Maybe if it was ORGANISED man controlled religions ,Scientology if that counts.QUOTE]
Scientology can't count, cults will never count

As for my own views, without religion all those idiots killing each other, raping little boys etc would be able to focus on doing something positive for the people, like advancement of the human race maybe ?

NO TO RELIGION !! RAWR

Lockstep

Death Sentence wrote: »

As for my own views, without religion all those idiots killing each other, raping little boys etc would be able to focus on doing something positive for the people, like advancement of the human race maybe ?

Meh, I hardly think a paedophile priest would be the most religious of people. Maybe he would justify himself as doing it for God but he's hardly doing what his religion tells him to.

Stalin was an atheist nutjob, he persecuted religious folk (among others)

entropi

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Meh, I hardly think a paedophile priest would be the most religious of people.

True, but if he wasn't a priest in the first place he wouldn't be viewed as a trusted person and be allowed to get so close to kids, and hence be treated like any other paedophile scumbag.

On another note, along with Stalin being a nutjob, usually dictators as a whole would have religion as a motive, or a major part of their motive behind their antics.

Lockstep

Death Sentence wrote: »

True, but if he wasn't a priest in the first place he wouldn't be viewed as a trusted person and be allowed to get so close to kids, and hence be treated like any other paedophile scumbag.

Same goes for doctors really.

Death Sentence wrote: »

On another note, along with Stalin being a nutjob, usually dictators as a whole would have religion as a motive, or a major part of their motive behind their antics.

Usually more a case of they use religion as a way of keeping their people in line.
The Russian Tsars, French Ancienne Regimes emporers etc.

Pepe LeFrits

seamus wrote: »

Nutjob clearly, but had he no religious upbringing, who's to say he wouldn't have been a simple watchmaker in Austria?

Nice reference.

I'm no fan of organised religion but it gets blamed for far more than it deserves. Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. If it wasn't for religion, it'd be for some other arbitrary self-centric reason.