Dunne should fight kiko again

c1979

hey lads what's the story with Benard Dunne, I think he needs to fight kiko again, i think he can beat him and if he did would win over the whole contry (the haters really surfaced when he got knock the **** out).

Kiko was afraid to fight Wayne McC now look who he is fighting at super bantham (thought he couldn't make the weight?)Rendall Munroe 13 (6) - 1 (0)

ODD-JOB

Of course , it has to happen !!
the only thing im wondering about is if munroe beats kiko, it wont make Bernard look very competitive !

then Dunne may be afraid of losing , he may never fight again , i havent heard of him even returning to the gym since his loss.

i figured the loss , would have one of 2 possible effects.
(1) he goes back to the gym straight away , vowing to work harder than ever
or
(2) he looses heart , and packs it in.

jdivision

Dunne's chin is just too soft unfortunately. He just about managed to get through two of his fights with it but Kiko did show him up. If he would just drop the showboating he'd be a lot better.

Big Ears

I give Munroe a cracking chance at beating Martinez , so it's not like Kiko is taking a soft touch . However if he is able to make weight for the fight it does show he bottled it against McCullough .

MrVostro

Dunne wont win.
He hasnt got a punch to speak of - Or chin.

All kiko has to do is what he did last time. Walk up to dunne and smack him hard. No need to worry about dunnes hurting him with his weak punches.

He would be demolished again - end of career.

It has to be said though a rematch in Dublin would be dunnes best payday and then he can go on being a journeyman and make a few quid.

buck65

Would anyone pay to see Dunne v Martinez 2?
With all the good Irish fighters around he has serious competition now than he had before to fill seats.

dlofnep

He has to rematch him, absolutely.

Call Me Jimmy

I think with the right hype he would easily fill the place again for a rematch but kiko would destroy him. It would be good to see (there ain't enough boxing on terrestial tv) but no chance for the win for dunne.

alanceltic

I fancy Munroe to beat Martinez in their upcoming bout and can see a Munroe V Dunne in late summer......its still v hard to know what Martinez has to offer and my hunch is that hes not the real deal!

walshb

I'm going to make a prediction and say that Dunne will never fight again....

hamnegg

walshb wrote: »

I'm going to make a prediction and say that Dunne will never fight again....

agreed. kiko would hand him his arse again. would like the fight to happen though. missed the last one cause i went to the jacks!

dc69

c1979 wrote: »

hey lads what's the story with Benard Dunne, I think he needs to fight kiko again, i think he can beat him

no he cant,dunne was overated from the start by rte,who had millions of irish fans thinking we had a world champ material on our hands and would get hammered again if he fights kiko!he shouldnt fight again

joepenguin

dc69 wrote: »

!he shouldnt fight again

when people have been agreeing that dunne shouldnt fight again, do ye think he shouldnt fight again at all, or just not fight kiko again?

personally i think its crazy saying hes done/ not all he was cracked up to be.
Fair enough he was overhyped by a tv station but he came within one step of getting a world title shot , and held the european title for a while, and is capable of getting it back down the line.

he could have easily vacated the title and fought someone less dangerous in the ibf top 15 to get a shot at molitor.

walshb

joepenguin wrote: »

when people have been agreeing that dunne shouldnt fight again, do ye think he shouldnt fight again at all, or just not fight kiko again?

personally i think its crazy saying hes done/ not all he was cracked up to be.
Fair enough he was overhyped by a tv station but he came within one step of getting a world title shot , and held the european title for a while, and is capable of getting it back down the line.

he could have easily vacated the title and fought someone less dangerous in the ibf top 15 to get a shot at molitor.

Personally I feel Dunne will never fight again and his career is over..

Should he fight again?

I think NOT, as he is clearly not suited to the pro game and at 27 he is far
past it

And by past it, I mean he is past his peak, whatever that was.
The chap cannot IMO improve. He hit his peak and his peak wasn't
close on being good enough. How he can come back and expect
success is a dream......

dbrady01

I agree i cant see him fight again. I think if he was going to he would have done by now. There has not really been any major speculation about him gettin back into the ring. Probably the next time we hear about dunne will be as dublin fire brigades newest recruit

LegacyUser

I use to cringe watching the Dunne hype, no punch at all, no chin at all, good boxing skills, bad defence, he was never going to get anywhere, he's gone, never better than european level, I was waiting to back heavily against him, unfortunately didn't since I never heard of kiko, and kiko never fought anyone prior

And kiko's going nowhere either

raven136

according to a recent thoms myler report is he not fighting within the next three months in mayo or something?
i was never his biggest fan but i dont begrudge the guy coming back to ern a few quid for himself,just because he wasnt as good as he thought doesnt mean he should give up.how many other fighters have suffered the same and come back?

cowzerp

All joking aside but judging Dunne on his last fight is ridiculus! bren aka walshb in fairness felt this way all along but for those who believed in Dunne before this fight, little has changed, we know he can be hurt! so what? so can loads of other world beaters.

his style is all about been skillfull and not really getting hit, he can work more on this and he can improve lots in his defense so there is room for improvement-maybe he wont be a world beater but he can still entertain us and possibly build back up to the top of the ranks for a title shot.

jayroyal

cowzerp wrote: »

All joking aside but judging Dunne on his last fight is ridiculus! bren aka walshb in fairness felt this way all along but for those who believed in Dunne before this fight, little has changed, we know he can be hurt! so what? so can loads of other world beaters.

his style is all about been skillfull and not really getting hit, he can work more on this and he can improve lots in his defense so there is room for improvement-maybe he wont be a world beater but he can still entertain us and possibly build back up to the top of the ranks for a title shot.

well said

alanceltic

cowzerp wrote: »

All joking aside but judging Dunne on his last fight is ridiculus! bren aka walshb in fairness felt this way all along but for those who believed in Dunne before this fight, little has changed, we know he can be hurt! so what? so can loads of other world beaters.

his style is all about been skillfull and not really getting hit, he can work more on this and he can improve lots in his defense so there is room for improvement-maybe he wont be a world beater but he can still entertain us and possibly build back up to the top of the ranks for a title shot.

+1....too many knockers out there in my opinion....

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

All joking aside but judging Dunne on his last fight is ridiculus! bren aka walshb in fairness felt this way all along but for those who believed in Dunne before this fight, little has changed, we know he can be hurt! so what? so can loads of other world beaters.

his style is all about been skillfull and not really getting hit, he can work more on this and he can improve lots in his defense so there is room for improvement-maybe he wont be a world beater but he can still entertain us and possibly build back up to the top of the ranks for a title shot.

Guys, he's 27 and has been boxing for over 20 years!!!!

If he hasn't learned at this stage, he isn't going to learn.

Let's be realistic. He has no power, no chin and no houdini defense.

Does anyone seriously believe Dunne is going to wake up and become
like sweet Pea Whitaker and suddendly evade all these punches.
Even Pea had to take a few...

Ok, let's say he does come back?

What are we suddenly to expect?

A whole different Dunne with defensive skills and a chin and
championship stamina and a punch??:rolleyes:

So I think the guys is never going to fight again and shouldn;t expect
success and this makes me a knocker?

Why is it that when someone says it as it is,that he/she is a begrudger
and a knocker??

Dunne had his chance and in every fight I was rooting hard for him but
always felt he wasn't good enough...

alanceltic

You are a knocker and a begrudger.....Iv said it to you before on numerous occassions, you "claim" to be rooting for Dunne but we all know that deep down you would rather he was beaten so you could go off on one of your little rants!

Fine, you have criticised him over the last 2 years for boxing "bums" and we wont go over old ground but you can only beat what is put in front of you, you claim he has no power, you claim he doesnt have championship stamina, you claim he has a questionable chin, why its amazing hes done so well given that hes supposedly sh*te, well thats what you are saying.

I accept that he is not the finished article and he had a warning shot when he got tagged by voronin some time ago (after winning nearly every round b4 he got tagged), I accept that he doesnt carry the same power as say Vazquez or Ponce but he is a fantastic boxer and got tagged in his last fight and never recovered properly, mabey he was too cocky thinking he could slug it out with Kiko when experience would have told him to take the full count and hold on like a limpet to the bell. He will learn from this unlike previously as it cost him his european title and with that a world title shot.

He will be back (4 sure) as much as you would prefer to see him on the scrapheap and dont claim otherwise because we know what your taughts are on the issue. He wont be back with a newly found KO punch like Ponce, he does have championship stamina (he finished much stronger than Pickering in their bout), he may get tagged again but he wont try and punch his way out of it...lesson learned. He has the ability to win back his european belt (even if he has to beat Martinez but I rekon Munroe could do a number on him) and if he does this he will get a world title shot, he could easily hold his own with Molitor who actually has a style very similar to his own but 4 me Ponce is easily beatable and 4 anyone who has seen his last 2-3 fights he is a one trick pony who is 1 or 2 fights away from tasting another defeat (dont laugh at me here watch these fights he is clueless, he throws haymakers which a blind man could see coming!!).

Now we all know that in your book European titles should not be deemed as success and should not be celebrated as success and the only way you will give ANY irish boxer any sort of credit is if/when one of them wins a world title. Dunne will be back, I accept your views differ from mine but dont claim to be anything other than a knocker!!!

Slightly off topic, Michael Hunter fought last weekend and claims he will be campaigning at Super bantam, would make a very interesting fight as there was a possibility that Hunter V Dunne would happen before hunter had his shot for the IBF against Molitor.

joepenguin

I think what we can expect of dunnes career is that he can dominate the european scene and earn himself a world title shot, and its not all that inconceivable that he could win a world title belt down the line.
he'll probably either pick up a few more losses on the way or be very well matched/managed, its not as if its a case of be the undisputed champion /all time great or hang up the gloves.

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

You are a knocker and a begrudger.....Iv said it to you before on numerous occassions, you "claim" to be rooting for Dunne but we all know that deep down you would rather he was beaten so you could go off on one of your little rants!

Fine, you have criticised him over the last 2 years for boxing "bums" and we wont go over old ground but you can only beat what is put in front of you, you claim he has no power, you claim he doesnt have championship stamina, you claim he has a questionable chin, why its amazing hes done so well given that hes supposedly sh*te, well thats what you are saying.

I accept that he is not the finished article and he had a warning shot when he got tagged by voronin some time ago (after winning nearly every round b4 he got tagged), I accept that he doesnt carry the same power as say Vazquez or Ponce but he is a fantastic boxer and got tagged in his last fight and never recovered properly, mabey he was too y thinking he could slug it out with Kiko when experience would have told him to take the full count and hold on like a limpet to the bell. He will learn from this unlike previously as it cost him his european title and with that a world title shot.

He will be back (4 sure) as much as you would prefer to see him on the scrapheap and dont claim otherwise because we know what your taughts are on the issue. He wont be back with a newly found KO punch like Ponce, he does have championship stamina (he finished much stronger than Pickering in their bout), he may get tagged again but he wont try and punch his way out of it...lesson learned. He has the ability to win back his european belt (even if he has to beat Martinez but I rekon Munroe could do a number on him) and if he does this he will get a world title shot, he could easily hold his own with Molitor who actually has a style very similar to his own but 4 me Ponce is easily beatable and 4 anyone who has seen his last 2-3 fights he is a one trick pony who is 1 or 2 fights away from tasting another defeat (dont laugh at me here watch these fights he is clueless, he throws haymakers which a blind man could see coming!!).

Now we all know that in your book European titles should not be deemed as success and should not be celebrated as success and the only way you will give ANY irish boxer any sort of credit is if/when one of them wins a world title. Dunne will be back, I accept your views differ from mine but dont claim to be anything other than a knocker!!!

Slightly off topic, Michael Hunter fought last weekend and claims he will be campaigning at Super bantam, would make a very interesting fight as there was a possibility that Hunter V Dunne would happen before hunter had his shot for the IBF against Molitor.

Ok, to please you I'll agree and I'll go a step further, Dunne is world class and Sonia O'Sullivan is a medal hope for Beijing and Ireland are favorites for the 2008 World cup and Andy Lee would have beat a peak Ray Robinson and
Duddy would beat both of them in the same night.

Oh and European titles is success, but also there are European titles that have a lot of duds and Dunne whether you like it or NOT wasn't the best in Europe.

As for him fighting again, we'll wait and see. I think he's over and I think it's best for him and boxing that this is the case...

Begrudger?

You obviously haven't the first clue of the meaning of that word....
Kiko proved that with ease

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Dunne whether you like it or NOT wasn't the best in Europe.

Without wanting to comment on any other part of that post(we'd just be going over old ground really) the European champion is almost never the best fighter from Europe in his weight division . Infact Dunne being the 2nd best in Europe is higher than most are .

Heavyweight: champion is Vladamir Virchis , he's not better than Wladamir Klitschko(IBF/IBO) , Ruslan Chagaev(WBA) , Sultan Ibragimov(WBO) , Nicoley Valuev , Sergeu Lyakhovich , Alexander Povetkin . So for me he's the 7th best fighter in Europe(although others could have him even lower)

Cruiserweight: European champ is Johnny Jensen , he's not better than David Haye(WBC/WBA) , Enzo Maccarinelli(WBO) , Jean-Marc Mormeck , Vadim Tokarev , Marco Huck , First Arslan , Tomasz Adamek , Krzysztof Wlodarczyk and some would also say Rudolf Kraj and Grigory Drozd, Gurov(who was robbed against Cantatore) , Brudov , Frenkel , Aleexev are better so that leaves Jensen between 9-16th best in Europe

Light-Heavyweight: champion is Thomas Ulrich , he's not better than Clinton Woods(IBF) , Zsolt Erdei(WBO) , Adrian Diaconu , so Ulrich is the 4th best in Europe .

Super-Middleweight: champion is Christian Sanavia , he's not better than Calzaghe(WBO , WBA , WBC) , Bute(IBF) , Kessler , Froch , Inkin , Braehmer , Tyspko , Stieglitz , Larsen , Mendy , it's also debatable whether he's better than Haussler Sartison and Bozic leaving him between 11-15th

Middleweight: champion is Sylvester , he's not better than Abraham(IBF) , Sturm(WBA) , Castillejo) and is at about the same level as Duddy and Asikainen(who he is 1-1 with) . So that's from 4-6th in Europe(but I suppose you have to have him above Asikainen at the moment because he won the last fight .

Light-Middleweight:champion is Baysangurov , not better than Dzinzurik(WBO) , touch and go whether he's better than Moore but I'd go with he probably is and the same with Canclaux . So 2nd in Europe

Welterweight: champion is Jackson Bonsu , he's not better than Hatton and I have seen Nuzhenko(WBA 'regular') but he's beaten Klose so is probably pretty decent . 2-3rd in Europe .

Light-Welterweight: champion is Colin Lynes , not better than Witter(WBC) or Kotelnik , some would argue Rees(WBA) , Branco , Bami and Sorokin , i'd have him above them but he's 3-8th anyway

Lightweight: champion is Romanov , some would say Khan is better , so that's 1-2nd in Europe .

Super-Featherweight: champion is Gulyakevich , not better than Alex Arthur(interim WBO) , some might put Kevin Mitchell ahead of him too(I wouldn't) , so that is 2-3rd in Europe .

Featherweight: Alberto Servidei is champion , he's not better than Nicky Cook , Derry Matthews , Spend Abazi , and many would have John Simpson , Domenico Urbano , Sergio Blanco Cyril Thomas and Michael Hunter so that's 4-9th

Super-Bantamweight: champion is Kiko Martinez , although I feel Munroe has a very good chance of beating him I don't think there is anyone Kiko couldn't be ranked as the #1 Super-Bantamweight in Europe now , aswell as Dunne having to be #2 with Pickering , Bouaita and Munroe fighting for the 3rd spot .

Bantamweight: champion is Carmelo Ballone , not better than Wladamir Sidorenko(WBA) , Simeone Maludrottu and possibly Ian Napa so that's 3-4th in Europe

Finally Flyweight: Andrea Sarritzu is champion , some would saw Bernard Inom is better(they drew with each other) , Ivan Pozo has shown he is capable of beating him but last their last fight . I'm going to rank Asloum(WBA Light-Flyweight) in this division as there is no Light-Flyweight at European level and this is where he had been fighting in and say he is better .
So between 1-3(because you can't really put Pozo ahead of him)

So being the 2nd best fighter in Europe at the time of holding the European title is actually a lot better than most European champions are .

walshb

Just to answer any queries regarding what I believe is success:

Dunne won 6 National Dublin amateur titles....successs
Dunne won 6 Irish schoolboy titles....damn success
Dunne won 3 Senior titles.....Unbelievable success
Dunne was never beaten by an Irishman, ever.....flawless...

Now, nobody can question me on what the definition of success is....

Here's the point...

All that success I noted above is past, gone, history and forgotten by a lot, not me by the way...

Does all this success in the amateurs translate to success and him being
a class pro. No it does not and it's not an entitlement either.

You have to earn success and prove your class in the pro's.

No amount of previous amateur success automatically entitles
you to a successfull pro career....

Bernard had a reasonably good pro outing fighting really average and sometimes below average fighters. He won a European title in a division which most will agree, and big ears has said, was not high quality.

Now how in the hell is what I am writing being construed as begrudgery?

I cheered Dunne every time and I felt for the lad when he was brutally
exposed. But not for a second did I ever believe Dunne to be anything
but a very average pro...Apologies for me being right and being honest...

jayroyal

walshb wrote: »

Just to answer any queries regarding what I believe is success:

Dunne won 6 National Dublin amateur titles....successs
Dunne won 6 Irish schoolboy titles....damn success
Dunne won 3 Senior titles.....Unbelievable success
Dunne was never beaten by an Irishman, ever.....flawless...

Now, nobody can question me on what the definition of success is....

Here's the point...

All that success I noted above is past, gone, history and forgotten by a lot, not me by the way...

Does all this success in the amateurs translate to success and him being
a class pro. No it does not and it's not an entitlement either.

You have to earn success and prove your class in the pro's.

No amount of previous amateur success automatically entitles
you to a successfull pro career....

Bernard had a reasonably good pro outing fighting really average and sometimes below average fighters. He won a European title in a division which most will agree, and big ears has said, was not high quality.

Now how in the hell is what I am writing being construed as begrudgery?

I cheered Dunne every time and I felt for the lad when he was brutally
exposed. But not for a second did I ever believe Dunne to be anything
but a very average pro...Apologies for me being right and being honest...

GOD YOUR SOMETHING SPECIAL ya'll never ease off i think he might be chinny but i think hatton and amir khan (WHO YOU SEEM TO ONLY LIKE) are a bit chinny but i don't come on here asking them to retire cause they got dropped thas just stupid.
Manny Pacquiao Got sparked twice agaisnt a bad fighter at fly weight and then at a world title flyweight fight, now he's super feather weight world champ. I ain't making out he's a Manny Pacquiao but anything is possible in this world, why should he retired now.
I ain't even a big fan of dunne's at all i just think it wrong you slating him all the time god man he got COLD early don't tell me ya never seen that before.

walshb

jayroyal wrote: »

GOD YOUR SOMETHING SPECIAL ya'll never ease off i think he might be chinny but i think hatton and amir khan (WHO YOU SEEM TO ONLY LIKE) are a bit chinny but i don't come on here asking them to retire cause they got dropped thas just stupid.
Manny Pacquiao Got sparked twice agaisnt a bad fighter at fly weight and then at a world title flyweight fight, now he's super feather weight world champ. I ain't making out he's a Manny Pacquiao but anything is possible in this world, why should he retired now.
I ain't even a big fan of dunne's at all i just think it wrong you slating him all the time god man he got COLD early don't tell me ya never seen that before.

Oh this gets funnier. Are you seriously comparing Amir Khan to Dunne?
Khan is quite simply one of the finest prospects ever to come from Britain.
He's still only 21, unbeaten, an Olympic silver medalist and has offensive skills and speed that are simply astounding. Yes his Chin MAY be suspect, but let's not forget, Khan got up and destroyed the man who put him down. That;s the big big difference.....

C'mon, don't get silly and try to say Dunne is in a similar boat to Khan. No disrespect to you, but that's just stupid....

Hatton and Dunne?

Oh yes the similarity is uncanny....

Hatton was the best 140lb fighter on
the planet who was unbeaten for almost
10 years and lost to PBF

Maybe Kiko deserves to me mentioned in the
same breath as PBF?

Seriously, step back and read what you wrote!!!

And my pevious POST could not have been more praise worthy of Dunne

alanceltic

You really dont get it do you, and to be honest im getting bored with trying to get you to see that you are being VERY harsh.

Dunne won a european title and I accept like I have in the past that in Europe the opposition is not red hot by world standards but the standard in europe by and large is a large step below world class, everybody knows and accepts this. I also accept that there can be situations where holding a european title can be deceptive, but in Dunnes case when he was title holder there was no european holding a world title and at this time he was in the top 10 rankings with WBO,WBC & IBF, he was worthy of being european champion, he got beaten fair and square and this defeat naturally begs the question - has he reached his limit at european level or was he "caught cold", either way he has had success, mabey not to your fine standards of winning a world title but I think it is disinjenious of you to claim that the winning and retention of any european title can not be proclaimed as a success and I think you are ranting on because you are a begrudger....

Oh yeah...just in case there is any ambiguity on the word
begrudge

• verb 1 feel envious that (someone) possesses or enjoys (something). 2 give reluctantly or resentfully.

Oh yeah if you read janroyals post he never compared Dunne in any shape or form with Hatton, you have misrepresented him beacuse it suits you to deflect attention from your BEGRUDGERY and its disappointing because I usually enjoy your posts on this forum but for anyone reading the thread its obvious that you clearly have issues with supporting/acknowledging the efforts of one of our own!!!

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

You really dont get it do you, and to be honest im getting bored with trying to get you to see that you are being VERY harsh.

Dunne won a european title and I accept like I have in the past that in Europe the opposition is not red hot by world standards but the standard in europe by and large is a large step below world class, everybody knows and accepts this. I also accept that there can be situations where holding a european title can be deceptive, but in Dunnes case when he was title holder there was no european holding a world title and at this time he was in the top 10 rankings with WBO,WBC & IBF, he was worthy of being european champion, he got beaten fair and square and this defeat naturally begs the question - has he reached his limit at european level or was he "caught cold", either way he has had success, mabey not to your fine standards of winning a world title but I think it is disinjenious of you to claim that the winning and retention of any european title can not be proclaimed as a success and I think you are ranting on because you are a begrudger....

Oh yeah...just in case there is any ambiguity on the word
begrudge

• verb 1 feel envious that (someone) possesses or enjoys (something). 2 give reluctantly or resentfully.

Oh yeah if you read janroyals post he never compared Dunne in any shape or form with Hatton, you have misrepresented him beacuse it suits you to deflect attention from your BEGRUDGERY and its disappointing because I usually enjoy your posts on this forum but for anyone reading the thread its obvious that you clearly have issues with supporting/acknowledging the efforts of one of our own!!!

Alan, Dunne was compared to Khan and Hatton. That's how the poster worded his post...

He said do I ask Khan and Hatton to retire because they're a bit chiny?

Dunne's chin was exposed and brutally so and this "He got caught cold" malaky doesn't get him a pass

You're definition of begrudgery is sopt on, however, what it has to do with a person believing that a fighter like Dunne is average to below average still baffles me.

I think he's not going to be back.
I don't rate the chap as a pro and
I believe the fighters he beat
were quite poor.
This is stating what I believe to
be true. Begrudgery has zero to do with it.

Best of luck to the chap and I'm happy he
made a few bob and won a title. Does this
mean I also must conform to your belief
that he can come back and win?

That's ridiculous.

Accept that not everyone believes that
Bernard Dunne was a class pro and not everyone
has your view on Dunne...

This is a democracy as far as I know...

Don't let yourself down by
labelling someone a begrudger
because they don't necessarily see the brilliance
in a fighter who beat below average opponents thru
his career and was KO'd in 86 secs by the first
man wh threw a few decent shots...

I'll tell you what, let's give Dunne until Jan 1st
2009 and if by then he hasn't entered a ring to fight, then
I'll say "I told you so", and if Dunne is in a ring
fighting before then, you can say "I told you so"...

Big Ears

Things to note: Pacquiao was ko'ed once as a young 17 year old , ffs he was just a boy of course he wasn't going to be able to take shots anything like when he'd grow up .The second time was from a body shot when Pacquiao was dead at the weight(he had actually failed to make Flyweight) .

Ricky Hatton is not chinny.........that's a fact , no chinny fighter could ever beat Tszyu it just wouldn't happen . Mayweather knocked him out with constant accurate punching(at lot of shots catching Hatton without him seeing them coming) and decent pop .

Amir Khan imo is chinny , but he does have phenomenal speed and very importantly good power too . Some have tipped him to become a multiple weight World Champion , not me though I think he loses to any of the current LightWeight champions and could only see him beating Gavin Rees at Light-Welterweight .

However Dunne isn't expected to achieve stuff like that , he is thought of as a lower standard fighter and thus success should be set lower than the aims of a Hatton or Khan .

Imo Bernard Dunne is capable of winning back his European Super-Bantamweight title , he is capable of winning World title eliminators(depending on the style and punching power of the opponent) at Super-Bantamweight , he would beat European Featherweight champion Servedei and is good enough to win eliminators at that weight too .
I would pick Dunne to beat recently defeated WBC #1 ranked and WBO title challenger Nicky Cook .


I would treat achieving anything in the above paragraph as success , anything less as failure . Dunne imo will keep on fighting , it is the easiest way for him to make money .

However Walshb is right if Dunne hasn't entered the ring by 1st janurary 2009 then there is no point in him coming back , he has to come back now while he is still young and despite that Martinez loss there isn't much wear on him .

He needs to improve his defence , and no this isn't impossible for a 27 year old fighter to do . Of course you can't completely change a fighter by that age but there is still plenty of things you can introduce , Bernard Hopkins would tell you a fighter never stops learning , or at least should never stop learning .

I'd like to see Dunne look to Wayne McCullough to improve his conditioning .
I'd also like to see Brian Peters use his connections to get Dunne some training and advice from Emmanuel Steward who is an expert at fixing flaws in fighters defenses .

Hopefully those rumours about Dunne fighting in March are true , because the sooner he's back the better .



Edit: word going round '
Brian Peters is running a promotion in Mayo on March or April. Bernard Dunne will headline the event, with the Timlin brothers along with Sweeney on the undercard. One of the Timlin bothers is expected to fight Belfast's Martin Rogan for the Irish heavyweight title that night.RTE will broadcast it live.'

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Things to note: Pacquiao was ko'ed once as a young 17 year old , ffs he was just a boy of course he wasn't going to be able to take shots anything like when he'd grow up .The second time was from a body shot when Pacquiao was dead at the weight(he had actually failed to make Flyweight) .

Ricky Hatton is not chinny.........that's a fact , no chinny fighter could ever beat Tszyu it just wouldn't happen . Mayweather knocked him out with constant accurate punching(at lot of shots catching Hatton without him seeing them coming) and decent pop .

Amir Khan imo is chinny , but he does have phenomenal speed and very importantly good power too . Some have tipped him to become a multiple weight World Champion , not me though I think he loses to any of the current LightWeight champions and could only see him beating Gavin Rees at Light-Welterweight .

However Dunne isn't expected to achieve stuff like that , he is thought of as a lower standard fighter and thus success should be set lower than the aims of a Hatton or Khan .

Imo Bernard Dunne is capable of winning back his European Super-Bantamweight title , he is capable of winning World title eliminators(depending on the style and punching power of the opponent) at Super-Bantamweight , he would beat European Featherweight champion Servedei and is good enough to win eliminators at that weight too .
I would pick Dunne to beat recently defeated WBC #1 ranked and WBO title challenger Nicky Cook .


I would treat achieving anything in the above paragraph as success , anything less as failure . Dunne imo will keep on fighting , it is the easiest way for him to make money .

However Walshb is right if Dunne hasn't entered the ring by 1st janurary 2009 then there is no point in him coming back , he has to come back now while he is still young and despite that Martinez loss there isn't much wear on him .

He needs to improve his defence , and no this isn't impossible for a 27 year old fighter to do . Of course you can't completely change a fighter by that age but there is still plenty of things you can introduce , Bernard Hopkins would tell you a fighter never stops learning , or at least should never stop learning .

I'd like to see Dunne look to Wayne McCullough to improve his conditioning .
I'd also like to see Brian Peters use his connections to get Dunne some training and advice from Emmanuel Steward who is an expert at fixing flaws in fighters defenses .

Hopefully those rumours about Dunne fighting in March are true , because the sooner he's back the better .



Edit: word going round '
Brian Peters is running a promotion in Mayo on March or April. Bernard Dunne will headline the event, with the Timlin brothers along with Sweeney on the undercard. One of the Timlin bothers is expected to fight Belfast's Martin Rogan for the Irish heavyweight title that night.RTE will broadcast it live.'

A perfectly diplomatic POST there. A couple of things?

"Imo Bernard Dunne is capable of winning back his European Super-Bantamweight title , he is capable of winning World title eliminators(depending on the style and punching power of the opponent"

Isn't this the whole problem. Dunne is screwed if he meets a man with a half decent punch. Capable? but then you say it depends on
his opponent. This seems ludicrous. Either he's capable or NOT? and if
his opponent has to be a certain type fighter, then that IMO says it all about Bernard's chances...

"Hopefully those rumours about Dunne fighting in March are true , because the sooner he's back the better" .

Better for who exactly?

So we all go trough the hpye and build up and Dunne gets KO'd the
second a decent shot is landed on him!!

Surely we can move on and expect better than this...

Lee is Ireland's hope now, not an over the hill Dunne who was
not much to begin with. If that sounds harsh, sorry, but it's as
real as you are going to get....

I'm telling you guys, Bernard will never fight again.
His heart and soul are not in it....

And Alan, this is not a knocker or a begrudger because
A: I'm not that type of person and
B: Nothing I have said is untrue.....

Big ears, should Dunne step back in the ring, who do you
see him fighting for his first few comeback bouts?
What are we to expect?
The same duds that Peters had him fighting
in his first career?

jayroyal

walshb wrote: »

Oh this gets funnier. Are you seriously comparing Amir Khan to Dunne?
Khan is quite simply one of the finest prospects ever to come from Britain.
He's still only 21, unbeaten, an Olympic silver medalist and has offensive skills and speed that are simply astounding. Yes his Chin MAY be suspect, but let's not forget, Khan got up and destroyed the man who put him down. That;s the big big difference.....

C'mon, don't get silly and try to say Dunne is in a similar boat to Khan. No disrespect to you, but that's just stupid....

Hatton and Dunne?

Oh yes the similarity is uncanny....

Hatton was the best 140lb fighter on
the planet who was unbeaten for almost
10 years and lost to PBF

Maybe Kiko deserves to me mentioned in the
same breath as PBF?

Seriously, step back and read what you wrote!!!

And my pevious POST could not have been more praise worthy of Dunne

I wasn't comparing anyone i just said there names as you talk about them two alot. There was no point me going on about another european Champ as you already said a don't rate that belt :eek: and i tink hatton hasn't got the chim for major bangers at light welterweight world level and dunne doesn't at european level eiter but it doesn't mean they can win back the titles they held already, god i really ope none of our other boxers lose soon or you'll be ''MILKING IT'':mad:.
I'm glad some people on hear like our own boys cause were all IRISH. I can't see why people wana nock lads so much.

cowzerp

Dunne should comeback and should be eased back in for 1-2 fights, really should go to america for them then come back sharp and ready to challenge someone of good caliber!

as an amateur dunne was hit hard all the time and never showed a weak chin! he also fought at a heavier weight as an amateur.

Maybe you will be right but been stopped the way he was does not prove you right, if he was outclassed and then dropped like that i'd say he was well beaten but this can happen and untill it happens again we can only guess that it was a fluke! dunne will learn from this too, no bad thing.

Even if he does not end up a world beater he can still continue making money and winning fights, lots of boxers do this who would never even be talked about winning titles..

I went to most of the shows that dunne fought bar the 1 he lost(i was fighting myself) and always had a great night and the athmosphere was brilliant, This is the point of going to sports so as a fan i was always happy after the event. Whats wrong with that?

nice1franko

Dunne wouldn't beat Martinez once in a 100 fights even armed with full knowledge of exactly what Martinez would do.

Ergo, Dunne won't fight Martinez ever again.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Dunne should comeback and should be eased back in for 1-2 fights, really should go to america for them then come back sharp and ready to challenge someone of good caliber!

as an amateur dunne was hit hard all the time and never showed a weak chin! he also fought at a heavier weight as an amateur.

Maybe you will be right but been stopped the way he was does not prove you right, if he was outclassed and then dropped like that i'd say he was well beaten but this can happen and untill it happens again we can only guess that it was a fluke! dunne will learn from this too, no bad thing.

Even if he does not end up a world beater he can still continue making money and winning fights, lots of boxers do this who would never even be talked about winning titles..

I went to most of the shows that dunne fought bar the 1 he lost(i was fighting myself) and always had a great night and the athmosphere was brilliant, This is the point of going to sports so as a fan i was always happy after the event. Whats wrong with that?

Paul, that fight with Kiko just proved Dunne hadn't the chin. We all suspected it, lets be truthful here. Voronin had Dunne all over the place and he wasn't a
puncher at all. The writing was on the wall and I think Dunne was also wobbled V Walstad, another light hiiting fighter. You know I have been saying all along that Dunne wasn't up to it and that Dunne IMO had been paired off against tomato cans. Let's not fool ourselves, Walstad, Voronin, Jailauov, and Pickering (who basically was happy to just survive) are all very low standard fighters and Dunne beat them, and struggled. Most would have cleaned them out.

I'm not disputing that the atmosphere was brilliant and that you had a good night, but can you put your hand on your heart and say that Dunne was fighting opponents who were class and who were a real real threat???

They were complete mismatches and Dunne made hard work of a few of them....

cowzerp

Most where cans but i think pickering is no mug, dunne was not known for a poor chin till recent times, that much i know! also nice1franko what do you know about martinez? really i mean?

walshb

jayroyal wrote: »

I wasn't comparing anyone i just said there names as you talk about them two alot. There was no point me going on about another european Champ as you already said a don't rate that belt :eek: and i tink hatton hasn't got the chim for major bangers at light welterweight world level and dunne doesn't at european level eiter but it doesn't mean they can win back the titles they held already, god i really ope none of our other boxers lose soon or you'll be ''MILKING IT'':mad:.
I'm glad some people on hear like our own boys cause were all IRISH. I can't see why people wana nock lads so much.

Why would I be milking it?

I want our lads to win more than anyone and wanted Dunne to win. He didn't and I knew sooner or later when he met talent, that he would be exposed....

How is this milking anything?

I know our soccer team won't win the world cup as they aren't good
enough. Does this mean I'll milk it when they don't??:rolleyes:

I have a very good idea that our athletes in Beijing will not medal.
Does this mean I'll milk it when they don't?:rolleyes:

I think we will not get any more qualifiers for Beijing in boxing
Does this mean I'll milk it when it occurs?:rolleyes:

It all goes back to me knowing Dunne wasn't close on world class
and when it showed, how did I Milk it?

He's not good enough, plain and simple. That's not my fault

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Most where cans but i think pickering is no mug, dunne was not known for a poor chin till recent times, that much i know! also nice1franko what do you know about martinez? really i mean?

Paul you hit the nail on the head..
Most were cans and as for Pickering, on fight night he showed
absolute no interest in trying to win that fight. Whatever he
did previously, so be it. Fight night V Dunne I was not impressed
with Pickering one bit....

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

A perfectly diplomatic POST there. A couple of things?

"Imo Bernard Dunne is capable of winning back his European Super-Bantamweight title , he is capable of winning World title eliminators(depending on the style and punching power of the opponent"

Isn't this the whole problem. Dunne is screwed if he meets a man with a half decent punch. Capable? but then you say it depends on
his opponent. This seems ludicrous. Either he's capable or NOT? and if
his opponent has to be a certain type fighter, then that IMO says it all about Bernard's chances...

"Hopefully those rumours about Dunne fighting in March are true , because the sooner he's back the better" .

Better for who exactly?

So we all go trough the hpye and build up and Dunne gets KO'd the
second a decent shot is landed on him!!

Surely we can move on and expect better than this...

Lee is Ireland's hope now, not an over the hill Dunne who was
not much to begin with. If that sounds harsh, sorry, but it's as
real as you are going to get....

I'm telling you guys, Bernard will never fight again.
His heart and soul are not in it....

And Alan, this is not a knocker or a begrudger because
A: I'm not that type of person and
B: Nothing I have said is untrue.....

Big ears, should Dunne step back in the ring, who do you
see him fighting for his first few comeback bouts?
What are we to expect?
The same duds that Peters had him fighting
in his first career?

It is the whole problem , which is why I said Dunne could win back his European title or World eliminators . He will fall short at actual title level(or in those eliminators depending on the punching power of the opponent) due to his chin . Dunne won't win a World title because of his chin , I have acknowledged this and so have you.......you believe he should retire because of this I don't .

Dunne can beat World class fighter once they have average pop , the problem is that Super-Bantamweight is probably the hardest hitting division 'p4p'(I hate that phrase) and is full of monstrous hitters .



Better for Dunne's career , would you argue that if he is set on continuing that it would be better to get going now rather than wait ?

Dunne will have less hype now , he will merely be another top Irish fighter such as McCloskey , Duddy , Macklin(if you include him) while centre stage for hype(and deservedly so) will be Lee .

Sure Dunne will probably eventually get ko'ed at some point again(if he is to keep fighting) but plenty of fighters possess weak chins and get knocked out.......that's boxing .

Walshb no one(okay well most people) is counting on Dunne to come back and win a World title , we just want to enjoy him for what he is , A European/fringe World level classy boxer who is extremely entertaining .
I don't think anyone has high hopes for him anymore and we just hope he can achieve as best he can .

Opponents he'll face , at first must likely foreign nobodies who can be dispatched easily enough before working him back to Walstad level by sometime around September/October , at least that's what I expect .


Whether his soul is in it or not I am almost certain we will see him back in the ring by May , because not only have I been hearing about him headlining in Mayo in March/April but also appearing on the undercard of Andy Lee's fight against Howard Eastman in May(which Brian Peters is expected to announce tomorrow .

nice1franko

What I know about Martinez would fit on a stamp:

He said he was going to come out and finish it in 3 rounds and that Dunne wouldn't be able to do a thing about it (ideal strategy IMO given his build and Dunne's 'questionable' chin).

Is there anything else I need to know?

edit- to elaborate, I don't need to know much about Martinez because I've seen more than enough of Dunne and anyone with a bit of strength and staying power will beat him by rushing him like that. If Dunne were to move up to a weight more natural to him I'd reconsider him again.

pwd

I think the norwegian guy dunne fought before martinez looked like he could have won if he had not been so hesitant going forward in the early rounds.

jayroyal

I really am wishing Andy Lee wins a world title and thin,k he really will but if loses or gets sparked like dunne I've a feeling walshb will be saying ''i told ya so'' but if and when he steps up in level and beats he best you'll say oh ye ''isn't andy great now we got ourselfselves a great lad'' cause at moment you're saying he's doing nothing to show you he's all that special but he might just ave the talent just to cover your ass incase your wrong tats what i hate.

Big Ears

jayroyal wrote: »

I really am wishing Andy Lee wins a world title and thin,k he really will but if loses or gets sparked like dunne I've a feeling walshb will be saying ''i told ya so'' but if and when he steps up in level and beats he best you'll say oh ye ''isn't andy great now we got ourselfselves a great lad'' cause at moment you're saying he's doing nothing to show you he's all that special but he might just ave the talent just to cover your ass incase your wrong tats what i hate.

To be fair even I'm not sure on the 'Andy Lee is going to be Undisputed Middleweight champion of the World' claims which are coming from a lot of peoples mouths at the moment .

What I do know is Lee is probably the best Middleweight prospect out there , or at least the best after Gennady Golovkin . Peter Quillin looks quite good too though .

However I am becoming more and more confident about him the more I see him , and he is improving at the necessary rate . At the moment though Lee cannot fight on the inside and do not be mistaken , although Lee is a much better prospect than Duddy , Duddy would beat Lee right now because Andy simply can't fight on the inside .

If he gets a decent inside game I can't see Lee not doing something special , as his chin looks solid to me , and being a 6'2 rangy southpaw with quick hands and good power he has a huge advantage over most .

But I must stress that he seriously needs to improve his fighting on the inside .

jayroyal

Big Ears wrote: »

To be fair even I'm not sure on the 'Andy Lee is going to be Undisputed Middleweight champion of the World' claims which are coming from a lot of peoples mouths at the moment .

What I do know is Lee is probably the best Middleweight prospect out there , or at least the best after Gennady Golovkin . Peter Quillin looks quite good too though .

However I am becoming more and more confident about him the more I see him , and he is improving at the necessary rate . At the moment though Lee cannot fight on the inside and do not be mistaken , although Lee is a much better prospect than Duddy , Duddy would beat Lee right now because Andy simply can't fight on the inside .

If he gets a decent inside game I can't see Lee not doing something special , as his chin looks solid to me , and being a 6'2 rangy southpaw with quick hands and good power he has a huge advantage over most .

But I must stress that he seriously needs to improve his fighting on the inside .

ye of course but you still think of him as a suscess and a sure maybe he can learn from experience.No need to put it out there he should retire after his first lost, you'd thave he most knowledge for boxing on his site so i'd respect what you say cause it ain't nonsence.
Also i think duddy really does need to learn to move his head a good bit more i was in belfast and he's improving a little all time cause i was at his fights in msg and stadium. I think Duddy savage to watch cause it edge of seat stuff.
I have to say with Duddys support and style he has to be 75-25 in favour to win a major world title even if he ain't got the skills of Andy what you think.

Big Ears

jayroyal wrote: »

ye of course but you still think of him as a suscess and a sure maybe he can learn from experience.No need to put it out there he should retire after his first lost, you'd thave he most knowledge for boxing on his site so i'd respect what you say cause it ain't nonsence.
Also i think duddy really does need to learn to move his head a good bit more i was in belfast and he's improving a little all time cause i was at his fights in msg and stadium. I think Duddy savage to watch cause it edge of seat stuff.
I have to say with Duddys support and style he has to be 75-25 in favour to win a major world title even if he ain't got the skills of Andy what you think.

All things considered Duddy will probably grab one of the 4 titles before his career is done , however I don't count on him ever being the #1 man at Middleweight .

Pavlik will knock him out imo , even with Duddy's chin if you're hit that hard that often you're going to go .

Abraham would beat Duddy too , same reason as above but the fight would be closer on the cards . It is possible he can beat Abraham if he catches him at the right time as the Armenian does struggle at the weight and anyone fighter struggling at the weight can suffer badly as regards stamina and chin(see Cotto v Ricardo Torres) .

Duddy could ko Felix Sturm , there's a very real chance of that . However Sturm will probably never fight outside Germany again and thus is incredibly difficult to beat by decision . So although Duddy would have a lively chance of becomming WBA champ right now Sturm would have to be the favourite for 'It's in Germany' reasons .

However things to note are : , Duddy does not come close to struggling to make the weight , he could very well be a career long middleweight he makes it so easily .

Pavlik will move up within 18 months/2 years , Taylor has already moved up , Abraham will be forced to move up by his own body within the same timeframe as Pavlik and all of a sudden we're left with a new scenario .

There are 4 groups of people now left in the division :
1.The best of the rest as of now , this includes Duddy , Castillejo , Sturm , Asikainen and Sylvester .

2.Whoever moves up from Light-Middleweight:
L-Middleweight is already poor and tbh I can't see any of the top L-Middleweights moving up anyway so the guys from here won't be that challenging .

3.The prospects as of now:
Lee , Golovkin , Quillen , Lorenzo

4.Guys who could make waves if they get on a run:
Khoren Gevor , Mariano Carerra , Mahir Oral , Gary Lockett(probably a vacant WBO shot :rolleyes:) , Paul Smith , Daniel Geale , Domenico Spada , Roman Aramian(a lot better than his record suggests) , Marco Antonio Rubio, Matthew Macklin , David Lopez, Sergio Mora, Darren Barker, Sebastien Zbik and Sebastien Demers .

If there is anyone who does anything in the Middleweight division and hasn't been named within those 4 groups I'll be shocked .

So with the big boys gone what we have left is quite interesting .
Duddy is capable of beat any of group 1 , however all of group one are capable of beating Duddy .

Group 2. isn't going to do much for the reasons I gave above .

Group 3. Will most likely produce one if not two top quality operators , possibly all 4 could become the real deal........then again they could flop .

group 4. Will probably be the pot from which champions will pick men to defend against , of course one or two will rise above that . I think Khoren Gevor might go on to do something decent .

So with all that considered I think Duddy has an excellant chance of picking up at least 1 title and probably within the transitional period I described above .

It's a very interesting division at the moment .
Match ups coming up in the division are :
Pavlik v Taylor(okay it's at Super-Middleweight) , Pavlik v Duddy
Sylvester v Castillejo , winner v Sturm , in the mean time Sturm will probably have to rematch Griffin . Sturm is fitting in a voluntary against Jamie Pittman aswell .

Lee will be taking on Brian Vera and after that Howard Eastman, should he get through that it looks like Winky Wright(who I didn't list as it seems he's more concerned with fighting for money at any weight than being middleweight champ)

on a less important scale:
Demers faces Vanda
Lockett faces ?
Smith fights Cello Renda
Golovkin v ?
Darren Barker fights Steven Bendall

Look for Abraham to make an American debut with a view to taking on Pavlik late this year or early next year .

The great thing about the middleweights is that barring Felix Sturm......and Gary Lockett they are all willing to face real tests to try and establish themself .

walshb

nice1franko wrote: »

What I know about Martinez would fit on a stamp:

He said he was going to come out and finish it in 3 rounds and that Dunne wouldn't be able to do a thing about it (ideal strategy IMO given his build and Dunne's 'questionable' chin).

Is there anything else I need to know?

edit- to elaborate, I don't need to know much about Martinez because I've seen more than enough of Dunne and anyone with a bit of strength and staying power will beat him by rushing him like that. If Dunne were to move up to a weight more natural to him I'd reconsider him again.

Your post was prety much perfect until the last bit. Whatever hope Dunne had/has at 122lbs, he has absolute zero hope moving to 126lbs. Heavier punches, stronger and Dunne adding 4lbs aint making him suddenly better and harder hitting etc....

Big ears, you keep saying Dunne can beat world class fighters once they have average pop?

This is ludicrous.

Who so far has he beat that was world class?

So he'll beat them as long as hey don't hit him?, is that it?:rolleyes:

See I not only see Dunne as not being world level, I see him being below average.
He's at best a journeyman. Tha is why I feel he won't be back.

If I thought he had the potential I'd say it...

To put it bluntly, if there are for arguements sake 1000 registered
122lb fighters in the pro game throughout the world, I would put Dunne
in the bottom 200, assuming that the standard is on par
with what's around in the other weights in boxing....

So it's not simple a case of me saying he shouldn't
return because he's not top ten or top 20, it's the fact
that IMO, he's not even top 100...

I bet there are a heap of unknown mexicans that would
easily dispatch of Bernard....

walshb

jayroyal wrote: »

I really am wishing Andy Lee wins a world title and thin,k he really will but if loses or gets sparked like dunne I've a feeling walshb will be saying ''i told ya so'' but if and when he steps up in level and beats he best you'll say oh ye ''isn't andy great now we got ourselfselves a great lad'' cause at moment you're saying he's doing nothing to show you he's all that special but he might just ave the talent just to cover your ass incase your wrong tats what i hate.

Yeah yeah yeah.....

I think Lee won't win a title going on what I have seen to date....

So what the f*** are you talking about and if he does, I will be
very very impressed. By world title I usually consider the WBC, WBA, IBF
and WBO as legitimate. You may consider any old title as that seems to
be what impresses you....

Lee showed me nothing in his second last fight in the stadium a few months ago, but
he looked better and more impressive in his last outing....

Are you OK with that.....

megadodge

To put it bluntly, if there are for arguements sake 1000 registered
122lb fighters in the pro game throughout the world, I would put Dunne
in the bottom 200, assuming that the standard is on par
with what's around in the other weights in boxing....

I promised myself I wouldn't get drawn into this debate as it has all the hallmarks of denigrating into a simple slagging match, but, having viewed the above remark I really couldn't let it pass.

Now, I made it clear long before Martinez my doubts about Dunne's chin and stamina, so it could be said I'm on your side, but do you really, REALLY think there are 800 fighters at super-bantam who could beat Dunne ?

Honestly ?

Cos if there were, there is absolutely NO WAY he would have won a European title, no matter how average the standard may have been.

And I'm on your side on this one, but I think you're letting your emotions get the better of you here.

megadodge

I think you're overrating Duddy somewhat.

I can't see him getting near Lee to use any advantage he may have inside. He would be picked off over and over again and (as he has shown a few times) he would run out of ideas very quickly and eventually be stopped late.

I think Sturm would outpoint him quite clearly irrespective of where it's held.
Sturm is a very neat, skilful boxer with a good defence and again I can't see Duddy having the ability to outbox him or the one punch ability to take him out of there.

megadodge

and i tink hatton hasn't got the chim for major bangers at light welterweight world level

Did you ever hear of a fella called Kostya Tsyzu ?

One of the biggest punchers the light-welter division ever produced ??