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strategies for tournament players re next week, help !!
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02-02-2008 4:22pm#1
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i probably shouldnt post this as im giving away my strategy, but as nic says we need all the help we can get, so here's something that i worked out instead of doing the sudoku in the paper
This should see me to the final day
ALL YOU NEED TO WIN A DONKAMENT - PRE FLOP PLAY
The implemented pre-flop betting strategy is preliminary and makes use of expert information. It is sophisticated enough to not hamper overall performance so that the focus can be put on post-flop play (the more interesting portion of the game). Loki examines several variables, uses the expert knowledge to determine thresholds for various betting actions, and chooses a strategy:
Make0: fold if it costs more than zero to continue playing, otherwise check.
Call1: fold if it costs two or more bets to continue (and we have not already voluntarily put money in the pot this round), otherwise check/call.
Make1: like Call1 except bet if there has not been a bet this round (with the big blind this cannot happen in the pre-flop).
Call2: always call/check (despite what the name of this strategy suggests, even more than 2 bets).
Make2: bet/raise if less than two bet/raises have been made this round, otherwise call.
Make4: bet/raise until the betting is capped, otherwise call.
Except for the small blind, which is given special treatment, Call1 and Call2 are effectively not used, so there are really only 4 different strategies. Once a strategy is selected it is fixed for all subsequent actions in the pre-flop. The small blind is a special case due to only having to call one half of a bet (so Call1 is really Call0.5 and Call2 is really Call1.5), and has fixed thresholds for these two strategies.
Call1 (and hence Make1) has a special case folding requirement, that ``we have not already voluntarily put money in the pot this round." This is a feature added after testing with human opponents on IRC. Many players were very aggressive and would raise frequently. This meant that often when Loki called the blind with a decent hand (but not Call2 or better), two or more players would then raise, causing Loki to fold. Due to this commonly exploited weakness, the kludge is necessary until some amount of opponent of modeling is implemented into the pre-flop.
The thresholds for selecting a betting strategy are determined from a set of linear formulas of the form
threshold(strategy) = base + increment * position (6.1)
where strategy is the betting strategy ( e.g. Make1), base and increment are defined by a human expert (see Appendix
, and position is the number of players to act before it is the small blind's turn again (so, if is the number of players still in the pot, the small blind is position , the big blind is position , the first player to act is position and so on, until the button (dealer) who is position 0).
For example, if Loki is playing tight against 3-4 players, the [ base, increment] values used for Make2 are [200,50] (based on Table B.1) so the formula used is
based on Equation 6.1. That is, the coefficients used for the linear formula depend on both the variable (group) and the parameter (tightness).
The variable group is based on the expected number of players ( ), which is
= (6.2)
There are three cases of interest for the expected number of players. We round to the nearest integer and determine the appropriate group based on what range that value falls in: ``2 players", ``3-4 players" and ``5 or more players" (see Appendix. The state variable is the number of players who have already put money in the pot (and have presumably committed to playing). This includes the blinds as well as ourselves (we assume we will play). is an expert-defined value for the average playing percentage of players (by default 0.60). Appropriate opponent modeling would provide much better estimates for this value, based on the observation of the current session .
The parameter tightness is a setting which affects the percentage of hands that Loki will play (indirectly, by selecting a different set of thresholds). The three settings are tight, moderate, and loose (the default). With ten players these roughly translate into playing 18%, 21% and 24% of all hands (the distinction is not large so the terms are a misnomer - all levels are relatively conservative).
There is one [base, increment] pair per set of group, strategy and tightness values (Table B.1) so there are 27 pairs total (since Make0 is the default strategy only three thresholds are needed for determining the strategy). Once the thresholds are determined, the actual strategy selected is dependent on the pre-calculated income rate (IR) of the hole cards. Figure 6.1 describes the algorithm for selecting a strategy.
For example, consider a six player game. We hold A-T and are playing tight. The first two players put in blinds, the next two fold, and it is Loki's turn. There is still one player, the button, who has not yet acted. So position = 1, and (including Loki). We then calculate
and use this to determine group = ``3-4 players". Then, using Table B.1 we calculate
Finally, we find the value of our hand is IR = 491 and select the appropriate strategy. Since , we select the Make2 strategy, and raise.0 -
i probably shouldnt post this as im giving away my strategy, but as nic says we need all the help we can get
This should see me to the final day
ALL YOU NEED TO WIN A DONKAMENT - PRE FLOP PLAY
The implemented pre-flop betting strategy is preliminary and makes use of expert information. It is sophisticated enough to not hamper overall performance so that the focus can be put on post-flop play (the more interesting portion of the game). Loki examines several variables, uses the expert knowledge to determine thresholds for various betting actions, and chooses a strategy:
Make0: fold if it costs more than zero to continue playing, otherwise check.
Call1: fold if it costs two or more bets to continue (and we have not already voluntarily put money in the pot this round), otherwise check/call.
Make1: like Call1 except bet if there has not been a bet this round (with the big blind this cannot happen in the pre-flop).
Call2: always call/check (despite what the name of this strategy suggests, even more than 2 bets).
Make2: bet/raise if less than two bet/raises have been made this round, otherwise call.
Make4: bet/raise until the betting is capped, otherwise call.
Except for the small blind, which is given special treatment, Call1 and Call2 are effectively not used, so there are really only 4 different strategies. Once a strategy is selected it is fixed for all subsequent actions in the pre-flop. The small blind is a special case due to only having to call one half of a bet (so Call1 is really Call0.5 and Call2 is really Call1.5), and has fixed thresholds for these two strategies.
Call1 (and hence Make1) has a special case folding requirement, that ``we have not already voluntarily put money in the pot this round." This is a feature added after testing with human opponents on IRC. Many players were very aggressive and would raise frequently. This meant that often when Loki called the blind with a decent hand (but not Call2 or better), two or more players would then raise, causing Loki to fold. Due to this commonly exploited weakness, the kludge is necessary until some amount of opponent of modeling is implemented into the pre-flop.
The thresholds for selecting a betting strategy are determined from a set of linear formulas of the form
threshold(strategy) = base + increment * position (6.1)
where strategy is the betting strategy ( e.g. Make1), base and increment are defined by a human expert (see Appendix, and position is the number of players to act before it is the small blind's turn again (so, if is the number of players still in the pot, the small blind is position , the big blind is position , the first player to act is position and so on, until the button (dealer) who is position 0).
For example, if Loki is playing tight against 3-4 players, the [ base, increment] values used for Make2 are [200,50] (based on Table B.1) so the formula used is
based on Equation 6.1. That is, the coefficients used for the linear formula depend on both the variable (group) and the parameter (tightness).
The variable group is based on the expected number of players ( ), which is
= (6.2)
There are three cases of interest for the expected number of players. We round to the nearest integer and determine the appropriate group based on what range that value falls in: ``2 players", ``3-4 players" and ``5 or more players" (see Appendix. The state variable is the number of players who have already put money in the pot (and have presumably committed to playing). This includes the blinds as well as ourselves (we assume we will play). is an expert-defined value for the average playing percentage of players (by default 0.60). Appropriate opponent modeling would provide much better estimates for this value, based on the observation of the current session .
The parameter tightness is a setting which affects the percentage of hands that Loki will play (indirectly, by selecting a different set of thresholds). The three settings are tight, moderate, and loose (the default). With ten players these roughly translate into playing 18%, 21% and 24% of all hands (the distinction is not large so the terms are a misnomer - all levels are relatively conservative).
There is one [base, increment] pair per set of group, strategy and tightness values (Table B.1) so there are 27 pairs total (since Make0 is the default strategy only three thresholds are needed for determining the strategy). Once the thresholds are determined, the actual strategy selected is dependent on the pre-calculated income rate (IR) of the hole cards. Figure 6.1 describes the algorithm for selecting a strategy.
For example, consider a six player game. We hold A-T and are playing tight. The first two players put in blinds, the next two fold, and it is Loki's turn. There is still one player, the button, who has not yet acted. So position = 1, and (including Loki). We then calculate
and use this to determine group = ``3-4 players". Then, using Table B.1 we calculate
Finally, we find the value of our hand is IR = 491 and select the appropriate strategy. Since , we select the Make2 strategy, and raise.
ah bollix to that, I'm gonna just go with my Feel and reads0 -
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goodluck2me wrote: »the best part was that most of the money went in on those magical mythical creatures the "turn" and "river", i thought cash players knew how to play them?
I also thought Ireland knew how to play expansive flowing rugby, learn something new everyday!! Eddie out!! God that was a long day.0 -
Requiem4adream wrote: »
I also thought Ireland knew how to play expansive flowing rugby, learn something new everyday!! Eddie out!! God that was a long day.
Details on hands how you knocked out the cash donks please0 -
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Hectorjelly wrote: »Normally one wouldn't exercise "pot control" with trips in a reraised pot.
Where's that popcorn picture ??? 0 -
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Hectorjelly wrote: »Normally one wouldn't exercise "pot control" with trips in a reraised pot.
lol ok.
blinds 25/50. he raised to 150, i made it 400. he calls. pot 825. I'm 600 bb's deep, he is 400. I thought you cash players were experts in these situations? I can say with certainty i wouldnt have been getting knocked out holding his hand,each to his own. 0 -
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thechamp87 wrote: »Ok cool mixed up at my end. wp anyway and ul not to cash.
Thx man. Any links with pics of you? I hear you're very good just want to know who to look out for/respect in main event this week. tyty
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I think the Cash game players will be at a huuuuuggggeeee disadavantage, because they'll spend a couple of hours, working on a "Cunning plan for the players at their table, setting them up for a "Play" so to speak, then
Their table gets broken....:D:D:D0 -
Requiem4adream wrote: »Thx man. Any links with pics of you? I hear you're very good just want to know who to look out for/respect in main event this week. tyty
somebody has been telling you lies - adam is a known donkey who will stack off with KK preflop against other peoples (my) QQ.0 -
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Requiem4adream wrote: »Thx man. Any links with pics of you? I hear you're very good just want to know who to look out for/respect in main event this week. tyty
lol you must have very unreliable sources:rolleyes:! i'm sure I'll bump into you over the weekend. I'm playing on Thursday.0 -
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why? if you think your ahead you get your chips in at any stage of a tournament.
within reason yeah! Flop Ah Qh 10h holding A2cc you think you're ahead so you get it in v Kh Qc? Or do you see a turn 400 bb's deep
But yeah it doesnt matter if its the 1st hand or 200th hand, if you think your ahead the chippies go in, simple as. His bet sizing was too big imo though, stand by that. No need to bet 3500 into 3100.0 -
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Requiem4adream wrote: »Thx man. Any links with pics of you? I hear you're very good just want to know who to look out for/respect in main event this week. tyty
Chump is the steamer on the left:D:eek::D0 -
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