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Sharing Church buildings a good idea?

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  • 02-02-2008 3:15pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    Reading in the todays Irish Times there is to be a ground breaking move to have a place of worship shared between Catholics and Protestants and other denominations in a new complex to be opened in west Dublin in Irelands newest town.

    All four main Christian denominations are in negotiations concerning the inter-church place of worship at Adamstown to be completed as early as 2010.

    It is being seen as an historic first for a country torn asunder by sectarian divisions and a catalyst for the melting away of divisions between Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

    I could see no problems with demonations pooling resources and having seperate independant services under one roof, but I could forsee a danger of services merging together in the name of " ecunemism " which is of the Devil.


    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2008/0131/1201501793458.html?via=me


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    #2
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    " ecunemism " which is of the Devil.
    everything is of the devil with you rtdh ;)
    i think its a great idea, may help other trads get to know each other and eventually people would live more harmoniously.


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    #3
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    Going to a Church is all about praise and worshiping God. If people want it just as a place to get together and live more harmoniously they might as well go down to the pub

    wow.:eek:
    but isnt church ALSO a place to get to know people. many immigrants come to church and meet people through there faith and through a church.
    its not fair or logical to say church is a place JUST for worship.
    if they have their services at different times they are worshipping separately,but getting to know each other as well.
    is your problem fear that people will be more attracted to the different branches of religion and swap?
    or that you just want to keep society separate? doesnt make much sense to me really...
    i mean,if there was a building near my college that pagans of different trads set up, i'd head on down to check it out.


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    #4
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Church sharing is very common in Dublin since the number of congregations is increasing rapidly and there are now many more church congregations than there are church buildings.

    For example, one of the largest congregations in the city (a group of Romanian Pentecostals) meets in Abbey Presbyterian Church. The presbyterian minister visits the Romanians occasionally as a guest preacher in his own church building. :)

    I also know of a decent sized Pentecostal Church (about 500 strong) that meets every Sunday in a CBS school in Cork. Apparently the principal of the school is thrilled to have a Christian Church meeting on the premises.


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    #5
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    nerin wrote: »
    everything is of the devil with you rtdh ;)
    i think its a great idea, may help other trads get to know each other and eventually people would live more harmoniously.
    My point is about docternal error and about God, not about people getting together to know each other and live in harmony, if they want that they can go down to the pub. :)


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    #6
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    My point is about docternal error and about God
    em, but if they still worship their way whats your problem?
    i giggled when my 1st mentor brought me to a pagan gathering (there was meditations,discussions and a small market) when i was 16 and it was in a church hall.


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    #7
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    nerin wrote: »
    em, but if they still worship their way whats your problem?
    i giggled when my 1st mentor brought me to a pagan gathering (there was meditations,discussions and a small market) when i was 16 and it was in a church hall.
    I can see absolutly no problem them worshiping their own way to themselves but what I can see a problem in is if there is a merge ie between denominations, whose "way" then?


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    #8
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    whose "way" then?
    so your problem is "them" taking over, or "ye" not being in charge/control?


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    #9
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    yeah how many massive OTT hard to maintain buildings do you need


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    #10
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    yeah how many massive OTT hard to maintain buildings do you need
    The early church of the new testiment met in the upper rooms (attics) of private houses, Many Christians to-day still meet in private homes particularly in Muslim countries.


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    #11
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    yeah how many massive OTT hard to maintain buildings do you need

    I guess you need as many as necessary to provide space for those who wish to worship. At present, in most large towns and cities in Ireland, the demand for buildings is exceeding the supply. Most Christians wish to worship on Sunday morning, but many have to meet on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon because there is no space for them on Sunday morning.

    Another factor is that many church buildings are owned by denominations that are experiencing numerical decline and they tend to see those forms of Christianity that are growing as competition rather than as fellow believers. Therefore you have hundreds of churches renting space in warehouses, hotels, schools and community centres - even though some traditional churches are mostly empty.


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    #12
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    All four main Christian denominations are in negotiations concerning the inter-church place of worship at Adamstown to be completed as early as 2010.

    It is being seen as an historic first for a country torn asunder by sectarian divisions and a catalyst for the melting away of divisions between Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

    There has always been good relations between said denominations in Lucan, and a lot of ecumenism has taken place in the last few years. I'm personally a member of the Anglican parish. Hopefully Adamstown can see much of the same.


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    #13
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jakkass wrote: »
    There has always been good relations between said denominations in Lucan, and a lot of ecumenism has taken place in the last few years. I'm personally a member of the Anglican parish. Hopefully Adamstown can see much of the same.
    Would you agree to your denomination joining up with thr RC and celebrating mass together? This is what I am on about and it is happening already. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0706103.htm


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    #14
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I have no problem celebrating the Eucharist with Roman Catholics, it's the difficult issues like celibacy, purgatory, female preachers, amongst other things that would make it difficult for Anglicanism to join with Catholicism in the near future.

    I don't see it as the Devils work to celebrate the Eucharist with fellow Christians.

    Edit: Traditional Anglicans are not in full communion with the rest of the Anglican Church.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Anglican_Communion

    They don't like the moves on female priests and homosexuality (which is a difficult one I grant you, I'm not even in full agreement with homosexual clergy)


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    #15
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I have no problem celebrating the Eucharist with Roman Catholics, it's the difficult issues like celibacy, purgatory, female preachers, amongst other things that would make it difficult for Anglicanism to join with Catholicism in the near future.

    Traditional Anglicans meaning Anglo-Catholics I assume?

    I don't see it as the Devils work to celebrate the Eucharist with fellow Christians.
    Do you accept the docterine of transubstanciation and would you take the host? Any of those docterinal issues do not seem to have made any differences to any of the Anglican churches that have formally requested unity.


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    #16
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No I don't but some in my Church do. The Articles of Faith claim that there is no proof for transubstantiation but leaves it open to the view of the reciprient.

    The Anglican Churches that have requested unity are not in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury, they are a separate group who split in 1976 after female priests were deemed into the Anglican Church.


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    #17
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jakkass wrote: »
    No I don't but some in my Church do. The Articles of Faith claim that there is no proof for transubstantiation but leaves it open to the view of the reciprient.

    The Anglican Churches that have requested unity are not in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury, they are a separate group who split in 1976 after female priests were deemed into the Anglican Church.
    I couldn't accept the host myself for what it means to me. I would also be opposed to woman preachers and I was quite surprised when I attended a Church of Ireland service in Ennis Co Clare last summer to come across one. In 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" many fundamentalist churches stick rigidly to this.


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    #18
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Reading in the todays Irish Times there is to be a ground breaking move to have a place of worship shared between Catholics and Protestants and other denominations in a new complex to be opened in west Dublin in Irelands newest town.

    All four main Christian denominations are in negotiations concerning the inter-church place of worship at Adamstown to be completed as early as 2010.

    It is being seen as an historic first for a country torn asunder by sectarian divisions and a catalyst for the melting away of divisions between Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

    According to the last census there are more Eastern Orthodox than Methodists in the State. So how come Methodism remains as one of the "four main Christian denominations"?


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    #19
    hairyheretic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭hairyheretic


    PDN wrote: »
    According to the last census there are more Eastern Orthodox than Methodists in the State. So how come Methodism remains as one of the "four main Christian denominations"?

    Expect government bureaucracy to catch up on that in about another 20 years or so :)


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    #20
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    PDN wrote: »
    I guess you need as many as necessary to provide space for those who wish to worship. At present, in most large towns and cities in Ireland, the demand for buildings is exceeding the supply. Most Christians wish to worship on Sunday morning, but many have to meet on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon because there is no space for them on Sunday morning.

    Another factor is that many church buildings are owned by denominations that are experiencing numerical decline and they tend to see those forms of Christianity that are growing as competition rather than as fellow believers. Therefore you have hundreds of churches renting space in warehouses, hotels, schools and community centres - even though some traditional churches are mostly empty.


    yeah as I said you don't need these fancy ostentatious churches


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    #21
    Mrs. MacGyver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I couldn't accept the host myself for what it means to me. I would also be opposed to woman preachers and I was quite surprised when I attended a Church of Ireland service in Ennis Co Clare last summer to come across one. In 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" many fundamentalist churches stick rigidly to this.

    My rector at home is female and an excellent preacher indeed! I see no problem with the 4 denominations sharing a building - it makes economc and practical sence in this new suburb - although i don't know how a select vestry would cope with the shared responsibilities!


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    #22
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Reading in the todays Irish Times there is to be a ground breaking move to have a place of worship shared between Catholics and Protestants and other denominations in a new complex to be opened in west Dublin in Irelands newest town.

    All four main Christian denominations are in negotiations concerning the inter-church place of worship at Adamstown to be completed as early as 2010.

    It is being seen as an historic first for a country torn asunder by sectarian divisions and a catalyst for the melting away of divisions between Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

    I could see no problems with demonations pooling resources and having seperate independant services under one roof, but I could forsee a danger of services merging together in the name of " ecunemism " which is of the Devil.


    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2008/0131/1201501793458.html?via=me

    Yes, it would be important that those sharing the building shared the fundementals of the faith, other wise they are just condoning false gospels and bringing God's judgement on themselves.

    But most of the churches involved in ecumenism do share the same gospel - a false one. Or as someone put it,

    "It won't hurt our beliefs you know,
    We stopped believing long ago."
    :D:D:D

    *****
    A little humour:
    CHANGING A LIGHT BULB THE CHRISTIAN WAY

    How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb?



    Charismatic: Only 1
    Hands are already in the air.

    Pentecostal: 10
    One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness.


    Presbyterians: None
    Lights will go on and off at predestined times.

    Roman Catholic: None
    Candles only.


    Baptists: At least 15.
    One to change the light bulb, and three committees to approve the change and decide who brings the
    potato salad and fried chicken.

    Episcopalians: 3
    One to call the electrician, one to mix the drinks and one to talk about how much better the old one was.


    Mormons: 5
    One man to change the bulb, and four wives to tell him how to do it.

    Unitarians:
    We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against the need for a light bulb. However, if in your own journey you have found that light bulbs work for you, you are invited to write a poem or compose a modern dance about your light bulb for the next Sunday service, in which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent, fluorescent, 3-way, long-life and tinted, all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence.


    Methodists: Undetermined
    Whether your light is bright, dull, or completely out, you are loved. You can be a light bulb, turnip bulb, or tulip bulb. Bring a bulb of your choice to the Sunday lighting service and a covered dish to pass.

    Nazarene: 6
    One woman to replace the bulb while five men review church lighting policy.


    Lutherans: None
    Lutherans don't believe in change.

    Amish:
    What's a light bulb?


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    #23
    Mrs. MacGyver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    In what way is it a 'false' gospel?
    We don't follow the gnostic gospels so please clarify, thanks.
    Sharing a building doesn't mean we compromise the tenents of our individual faiths.


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    #24
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    Originally Posted by Run_to_da_hills viewpost.gif
    I couldn't accept the host myself for what it means to me. I would also be opposed to woman preachers and I was quite surprised when I attended a Church of Ireland service in Ennis Co Clare last summer to come across one. In 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" many fundamentalist churches stick rigidly to this.
    again im amazed by rtdh and what hes opposed to...
    maybe its a better idea for me to only be shocked when i hear what hes for.

    ps those gnostics knew what it was all about,they were down with the godliness


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    #25
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,220 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Sharing the same roof? Seems OK to me. If you think otherwise... I thought it was called the House of the Lord? If not, are there different Lords, and therefore, the need for different houses?


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    #26
    Mrs. MacGyver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    Thats ridicolous! - these religions are not polytheistic in nature.


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    #27
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »
    My rector at home is female and an excellent preacher indeed! I see no problem with the 4 denominations sharing a building - it makes economc and practical sence in this new suburb - although i don't know how a select vestry would cope with the shared responsibilities!
    As I mentioned already I have no problem with denominations sharing the same building, in fact I think it could be a good idea pooling resources and save on heating, rent and upkeep. The downside would be that who will have the prime Sunday times? ie 10am to 11.30am? Will it be the one that barks loudest? The other danger if two or three demonations decide to join up and brew up a cocktail service of religion. As far as woman preachers go, I only go what scripture says about it.


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    #28
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    I only go what scripture says about it.
    i've noticed
    The downside would be that who will have the prime Sunday times? ie 10am to 11.30am?
    thats totally laughable.


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    #29
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    nerin wrote: »
    i've noticed
    Unfortunitally too many religions make their laws and docterine too suit man rather than God.
    nerin wrote: »
    thats totally laughable.
    No its not, from my original post you have four denominations trying to squeeze their time schedual into three hours on sunday morning, No one is going to get up before 9.30 and no one is going to be bothered going to a service after 11.20. AM


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    #30
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    Unfortunitally too many religions make their laws and docterine too suit man rather than God.
    how can you make laws for a god?oh wait,do you mean making up rules that you think would suit god?
    rules from a couple of thousand years ago?that were specifically for that time? hmmm
    No its not, from my original post you have four denominations trying to squeeze their time schedual into three hours on sunday morning, No one is going to get up before 9.30 and no one is going to be bothered going to a service after 11.20. AM
    im sure someone would.
    again youre making it sound like you are just worried your group wont be in charge/have the best of times and things.


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    #31
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    nerin wrote: »
    how can you make laws for a god?oh wait,do you mean making up rules that you think would suit god?
    rules from a couple of thousand years ago?that were specifically for that time? hmmm .
    The Bible is the "word of God", Ie Genisis to Revelation and is more up to date now than any book written on the planet.


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