Develope A Website, anyone ?

The Snapper

Need new company website developed, what are the pitfalls things to note etc.
also. anyone interested PM please

AARRRGH

The pitfalls are not knowing what you want.

Figure out exactly what you want - for example, find a website it should be like - a document everything so the designer knows what you expect.

Basically, provide as much information as possible.

forbairt

pitfalls = ...

going with the cheapest option in a lot of cases ...

50 quid and I'll have your website up and running mr.

research any company you are going to get to design you online presence ...

Find out exactly what they are offering ...

If you're not paying a lot don't expect a lot (sorry but domain / hosting / template / development / SEO / online advertising campaign .. doesn't just = 200 quid)

It shocks me all the time that people will spend 500 - 1000 quid for a tiny advert in a newspaper running for 1 day .. yet they flinch at seeing a quote for 1 - 5k for a website which gives them so much more .. pretty much 24/7 advertising ..

AARRRGH

I disagree.

I didn''t do the design for the website staff.ie. I outsourced it.

Guess how much?

$200.

Outsourcing does work, but you gotta find the right people...

Webmonkey

dublindude wrote: »

I disagree.

I didn''t do the design for the website staff.ie. I outsourced it.

Guess how much?

$200.

Outsourcing does work, but you gotta find the right people...

Did that include coding? - because it isn't a site that needs much design - Business site might be a different ballgame

forbairt

so you've got ...

Researching / finding / sourcing people to do the developement for you (yes it can be as simple as going to elance and posting ) they have a posting fee of 20 quid don't they ? (or something similar or a % ?? )

Project management time on the project

Template design ????

Coding the site

Your own development time ?

SEO / Link Building

200$ = 135 EUR at the moment

now lets take out the 20 quid posting fee ? and you're left with 120 or so (rough guesstimate)

to develop something like staff.ie ... market it ... design a "proper" template for it and so on would take me quite a bit of time. I can't afford to live for 120 EUR a week or less I'm afraid ... so that'd rule me out and to customers like that I would have to wish them all the best with their project ... and hope it would work out for them.

AARRRGH

$5 finders fee, so $205 in total.

Yes there was some time telling them what I wanted, but it would be the same with an Irish, British or Mongolian.

I coded it myself and outsourced the design. I probably could have outsourced the code for ~$800 (developing a jobsite isn't straightforward.)

Anyway, my point is consider outsourcing. It's cheap.

forbairt

dublindude wrote: »

I disagree.

I didn''t do the design for the website staff.ie. I outsourced it.

Guess how much?

$200.

Outsourcing does work, but you gotta find the right people...

ok I think I miss read your post originally

What were you disagreeing with ?

Website developed doesn't mean getting a template and banging it onto a site...

Yes you can get cheap templates ... you can get a logo for 0+

Webmonkey

You get what you pay for too - your site design is simple and doesn't require much graphic work or anything.

I know you got the logo done for €50 by some Aussie girl or someone - is that included in the 200

forbairt

Webmonkey wrote: »

I know you got the logo done for €50 by some Aussie girl or someone - is that included in the 200

They weren't a fan of the O'Reilly books were they by any chance

AARRRGH

They didn't use a template. It's an original design.

The logo, I have loads of them Please exclude the logo from the $200.

Forbairt: My disagreement is with your suggestion that a website for 1-5k shouldn't be flinced at I have no problem - and understand the value - in getting your website designed and developed by an Irish company, but I am a strong believer in outsourcing.

AARRRGH

forbairt wrote: »

They weren't a fan of the O'Reilly books were they by any chance

Yeah it's very O'Reillyish! That was actually my job spec for the logo

forbairt

dublindude wrote: »

They didn't use a template. It's an original design.

You have proof ? (similar to do I have proof my site isn't a template no apart from my word)

dublindude wrote: »

The logo, I have loads of them Please exclude the logo from the $200.

Already the cost has started to increase ...

dublindude wrote: »

Forbairt: My disagreement is with your suggestion that a website for 1-5k shouldn't be flinced at I have no problem - and understand the value - in getting your website designed and developed by an Irish company, but I am a strong believer in outsourcing.

Why didn't you outsource the coding as well ? (curious ... as well as being stubborn) ...

I fixed up this site before christmas ... included the logo design slightly based on their old design http://www.awomansheartgalway.com/ ... included domain name and hosting it for them as well through blacknight ... (did it all for free so c&c can be taken on board based on that hopefully ... )

Would I do the same for a business ... not on your life
I'm out to make a living out of this for myself ... I'm not into project management / outsourcing as such ...
(what ever happened to guaranteed irish and all that )

I did recommend the OP shop around and see whats out there ...

In ireland at the moment you can generally get a site developed for around 500 quid plus ...

I still have to ask how much staff.ie cost you ... we're on 135ish eur add on hosting and a domain name ... and we're up to probably 100 at least given its been there for a year or two ... ... how much time did you spend coding it .. and what is your going rate ... how much time did you spend marketing it ? and what is your going rate for that ?

135 + 100 = 235 EUR ... and we've not counted your own time yet ... so my 1k figure isn't that far off .. still a good bit ... but ... anyways

its late ... I've just had a beer ... and I've been up since 5 so I'm not at my best ... (sorry if I'm coming off a bit strong .. I just don't see what is wrong with the what I originally posted )

Webmonkey

I'm blinded by smiley faces

forbairt

Webmonkey wrote: »

I'm blinded with smiley faces

<-- there .. have a frowney

you didn't mention the .'s ... <--

AARRRGH

I'm genuinely not trying to argue with your Forbairt. As I said, I have no problem with people using Irish companies (in fact, I'm a fan of supporting local businesses.) But I like outsourcing...

OK to answer your questions:

My site definitely isn't a template. I told them exactly what I wanted. Outsourcing only works (smoothly) if you tell them exactly what you want.

I didn't outsource the coding as I'm a fairly experienced coder (13+ years.)

I'm with you on the "how much did staff.ie REALLY cost you" question. I've spent years thinking about it and developing it. So we're talking thousands of hours of time. However the software is so cool (I have AI which automatically ranks each job application) that it can't really be compared to a normal site...

I think if you had the site planned out the way you wanted it, you could outsource it for at least half the price of an Irish company. Where I'm with you is this: how many people know what they really want? Not a lot, probably... but if you know what you're doing, outsourcing is the way to go...

Goodshape

Dublindude, outsourcing a [functional but] not very remarkable design (sorry) for a website you're planning on coding, promoting and maintaining yourself is not the same as an otherwise offline business looking to create a new promotional website.

I'd have to agree with forbairt that the amount of time and skill you've presumably put into your websites yourself sort of nullifies your "$200" argument.

And the "ah sure just outsource the design.. it'll be cheap and easy!" kind of advice is exactly the sort of pitfall which the OP should avoid, unless they honestly know a good deal about what they're doing.

forbairt

dublindude wrote: »

I think if you had the site planned out the way you wanted it, you could outsource it for at least half the price of an Irish company. Where I'm with you is this: how many people know what they really want? Not a lot, probably... but if you know what you're doing, outsourcing is the way to go...

I guess I'm coming from the point of view that I'm a bit of a jack of all trades ( is this a good / bad thing ? yes / no ) I'm also slightly intimidated by the opening market .. eastern europe has been with us a while but when China gets more into things that a HELL of a lot of potential "webdesigners" I'd like to see some sort of loyalty to ireland.

I also think there are a LOT of cowboys out there in ireland and I've seen some complete muck ... but I also think there are a lot of REALLY good developers / designers there as well. Unfortunately ireland = an expensive place hence prices you're going to pay are generally more than asking someone in romania to do it for you but you get someone you can potentially phone up and say .. sorry thats not working for me can you change it ... and you can always call over .. even if its a few hours away

I was recently up in belfast to meet a client and they were very happy I went there ... it took I think maybe 15 - 25 minutes for them to tell me what they wanted / how it worked ... but out of it they had a face to face meeting and its always a plus knowing who you are dealing with ... not just "ELiTDisNr4 .. accepts western bank tranfers" ( if he turns out to be an actual person .. SORRY )

forbairt

Goodshape wrote: »

And the "ah sure just outsource the design.. it'll be cheap and easy!" kind of advice is exactly the sort of pitfall which the OP should avoid, unless they honestly know a good deal about what they're doing.

+1 unless they really know what they are doing ... or are prepared to get badly burnt

AARRRGH

Goodshape wrote:

Etc.

I disagree. I have advised a number of companies on outsourcing their needs and it worked out fine.

I would agree, in general, that outsourcing requires a certain technical knowledge (or cop on.) With proper planning ("make it like this") you can save a lot of money.

nobodythere

dublindude wrote: »

Outsourcing does work, but you gotta find the right people...

Vietnamese children eh?

forbairt

dublindude wrote: »

I disagree. I have advised a number of companies on outsourcing their needs and it worked out fine.

Advised for free ?

forbairt

grasshopa wrote: »

Vietnamese children eh?

their small fingers mean you can fit twice as many keys on the keyboard ...

AARRRGH

forbairt wrote: »

Advised for free ?

Honestly? It depends.

In my day job I work with companies in China who test our products. Basically I manage the outsourcing of our testing. So for this, I obviously get paid...

As regards posts on boards.ie; I'm always honest. I'm not motivated by making money, so I will always say what I believe.

EDIT: My recruitment websites are money losers. But I love them, so I'll always keep them going.

forbairt

I'd find I'm pretty honest as well ... in most posts / emails ...

hosting - 35 quid
domain - 10 quid
using that one click wordpress install 1 touch of a button and for the most part free (may have to set up a database first)

Cost to setup a website ... 45 quid ... can you do it cheaper ... possibley / probably

getting a template ... of you go to http://www.oswd.org/

total cost so far your time ... (honestly figuring out all this I'd probably say 2 - 3 days for a non techy person) ??? I could be wrong but I've had support calls from people wanting to know how to download a file from a website .. click file .... it asks you to save it ... ...

Edit: I should also so .. having someone to tell you how to do all this ... (free if you're reading this post) I find if you don't know how to do this .. then you REALLY don't know how to do this hence I mention figures of 1 - 5 k

AARRRGH

I worked for 4 years during college in AOL tech support. Believe me, the public and computers... scary ****!!

I once had a man from the circus crying on the phone because the laptop he kept in a suitcase had a virus, even though it had never been online

DJB

Right, I'm with both forbairt and dublindude on this one. Although... Yes, dublindude, outsourcing is good way of doing things if you know what you are doing. There's no point suggesting to the OP to outsource parts of the web design project if they don't know where to start when putting it all together.

Unless you've actually run a web project or website, how are they going to understand (or have an in depth knowledge of) good design techniques, usability issues, standard based coding, css layouts, dom scripting, page layout, content structuring, content for search engines, seo, link building, hosting, etc. This is why companies go to professionals like forb and me, or web design companies - because we have the experience in the field and we know what we are talking about. They are purchasing our experience and putting their trust in us to provide them with a high quality service.

And guess what - our prices reflect that experience. Not in bad way but if you want a job done and want it done right, we can provide that service. I'm not saying you can't get that done elsewhere for cheaper but usually cheaper means less experience, sometimes quality, knowledge, etc. Personally web projects I get involved in range from 3k up to 15k or so.

Forb, I'm fully with you on this one. Especially you're point on comparing an ad in the newspaper to the price of a website. You get much more value for money for your website and with the right marketing, you can get just as much exposure with it.

My advice to the OP:

- Do a search for web design companies in google or if you'd like recommendations of professionals/companies I think provide a good quality service just ask.
- Have a look through their portfolio and see if their style is what you are looking for. Most designers have a particular style and it is a good basis for what your project may turn out like.
- Also look for sites you do like that you can provide to your chosen developer so they have an idea of what you have in mind.
- Draw up a basic spec such as site map, aim of the website, target market, small brief about the company, etc.
- Pick 2/3 companies you like and send them the spec. At that point you could probably arrange to meet with them to discuss your needs. This meeting is good for the client and the provider so you get a good feel for what each is like and more questions can be asked. Usually my first meeting gives me all I need to find out what the client needs, gives me an opportunity to explain how I can fit with their plan and benefit their business, etc.

Pitfalls to look out for - choosing the wrong designer. I advise staying away from designers too cheap. From experience, you don't always get a good quality product at the end of it. Compare the portfolios - this will really help you in making the right choice.

For a brochure website with design, xhtml/css/js programming, website set up, content formatting, search engine optimisation, hosting, etc. don't be shocked if you get prices ranging anywhere from 2k to 10k depending on the company you talk to.

Anyway, hope that helps and if you want recommendations, just shout!

[my friday evening rant over now ]

Rgds, Dave

AARRRGH

For the record, I don't offer a website design or coding service.

DJB

Never said you did!

louie

I thimk the OP was left out in this tread, but nice reading...

Laslo

dublindude wrote: »

I didn't outsource the coding as I'm a fairly experienced coder (13+ years.)

That's not fairly experienced, that's very experienced (in terms of time anyway). So pray tell, Mr. Fairly Experienced Coder, why is your website a mish-mash of tables and font tags? No offence, but you're hardly in a position to have any kind of a take on what constitutes professional Web design. Tell me that staff.ie was built 6 years ago and we might let this one go...

forbairt

DJB wrote: »

Pitfalls to look out for - choosing the wrong designer. I advise staying away from designers too cheap. From experience, you don't always get a good quality product at the end of it. Compare the portfolios - this will really help you in making the right choice.

I'd have to second this ... last year in some cases I was the designer doing things too cheap ... but we learn from our mistakes

Too cheap = how many other clients do they have at the same time and how much time are you going to be allotted.

Too cheap can also mean someone trying to get a bit of recognition ..

I've had customers who have blown their budget on "CRAP" designers and had an extremely poor return from their websites. They've then come looking for someone to do damage control as they can't afford a proper design.

Hence designers portfolio is key when choosing. Their portfolio may may also not match your needs for example ... someone who develops mainly portal sites may not be good at developing a nice business website or vice versa. See if they've anything along the lines of what you want.

If you do end up in a situation where you don't get to meet the designer ... make sure you've got recommendations of them from others. A % is common to pay up front I think David had a nice post on that before on a thread on here. 20% upfront I believe ... 20% on another milestone .. 20 on another then a nice 40% chunk on completion.

You can't after all expect the developer / designer to complete a project without any payment.

A few of these have already been covered by davids post (or possibley all )

- Know what you want research a little recently had one customer tell me they don't know what they want but they'll know it when they see it (this is a great help and ends up wasting WAY too much of my time)

- provide vector logo (if possible)
(if you don't have a logo maybe the company can help on this ... maybe not)

- provide basic site map and content

- If providing imagery please note it must be of decent quality. The amount of people I get giving me 200pixel images who want me to turn it into 600pixels image with a strong impact on the site is crazy.

- On a similar note if its an online shop ... provide high quality imagery .. if you can't do them yourself find someone or study a bit and make up a small photo studio corner ... Alternatively we may be able to recommend someone ... the majority of times it won't be cheap though.

- provide 2 - 3 example sites that you like (its a great way to judge what you like and what you don't ... you are the customer but you aren't always right ... well'll be able to provide better input on it) (by we I mean web designers / developers / graphics people)

- decide if you want to take control of the site ... will you need a CMS (content management system) or are you happy to have the company you are dealing with provide updates (will involve a support contract ... but would hopefully result in better layout of content / headers / footers / images)
(you'll also pay a bit more normally for a CMS)

- Take out a support contract with the company ... the web is BIG business ... if you can't afford your own web designer / developer ... take out a support contract with the company you are dealing with. THey'll provide priority support .. updates to software and so on. A lot of people get scared away by support contracts ... the basic wage of someone for a year is what ... compare that to a couple of hundred / thousand (depending on what you're getting) .. you're getting skilled labour at your disposal

- One of the most important is ... Have a timeline ...
When do you need this completed by
Expect some delays on release date so maybe aim to get it done ahead of schedule.
(for example I've been sick last weekend to wednesday this week ... and was completely out of sorts so haven't had the most productive week)

All just points to get this thread back on track ...
As I already said you can do it yourself for 45 quid ...
will it look professional ... probably not ... will it be fast ... probably not ... will you have fun doing it ? that'll depend on you ...

forbairt

Re the whole pricing and how much you'll pay ... and whether to outsource or not ...

If you consider a website will take a week to make ?
- Phone calls / Requirements planning
- Mockup Graphics / Design
- W3 compliant Template
- SEO
- Domain name
- Hosting
- Setting up email accounts
- various other bits and bobs

Now the minimum wage in ireland is 8.65 ?? or something like that at the moment ?

If a website takes 40 hours to make for an experienced professional ...

A minimum wage employee at a rate of 8.65 working on it for 1 week would cost you 345 euro at least
Honestly not sure if you'll get fries and a drink with it or not.

So I used the bracket 500 eur + ... with 1k - 5k for a website as a guideline.

AARRRGH

Laslo wrote: »

why is your website a mish-mash of tables and font tags? No offence, but you're hardly in a position to have any kind of a take on what constitutes professional Web design. Tell me that staff.ie was built 6 years ago and we might let this one go...

LOL

Let's have a look at the index page -

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.staff.ie&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

This Page Is Valid HTML 4.0 Transitional!

Now let's have a look at the search results -

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.staff.ie%2Fjobs.html&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

This Page Is Valid HTML 4.0 Transitional!

The design is well structured and valid. How many other websites can say that?

Laslo is making the mistake a lot of nerds make. They get caught up in the little (irrelevant) details and miss the bigger picture. My design is simple, friendly and valid, and 99.99999999% of the sites users don't care whether I'm using tables or CSS.

Laslo wrote:

That's not fairly experienced, that's very experienced (in terms of time anyway). So pray tell, Mr. Fairly Experienced Coder

There have been programmers since the 60's? That's nearly 50 years of programming, so 13 years of coding is "fairly experienced". I don't know what your issue is really.

aidan_walsh

anyone interested PM please

Please read the charter. Recruitment is to be kept to adverts.ie.

heggie

don't want to get involved in the bitching, but dublindude, you clearly undervalue design, and in my opinion, that was 200 wasted. You have no clear design, grid or any aesthetically pleasing aspect of that website, and it looks like a coder rather than designer put that together.

AARRRGH

Fair enough (you're entitled to your opinion, etc.) Everyone has a different opinion on what makes a nice design. For example, I have received a lot of feedback saying the opposite of your opinion!

IMO simple and clean is the best design.

Do you work for an Irish web design company?

PS I think it's a bit petty to say I clearly undervalue design just because we have different opinions on what makes a nice design

heggie

simple and clean is a good principle, doenst mean you should ignore proven design practices. I run my own studio, not touting for business, but I just have to correct people who think 200 is enough of a budget for design. Contrary to what people think, good design is not subjective.

staff.ie is far from bad. but shouldn't be hailed as design perfection resulting from outsourcing

AARRRGH

I never said it was (an example of perfection from outsourcing.)

You're actually the first person who has ever complained about the design. Most people like it. Certainly most people I think would disagree that there is nothing aesthetically pleasing about it.

Anyway. My original point way up in the thread was 1 - 5k for a website design can be balked at. With the dollar being so cheap at the moment (and with there being no VAT when purchasing from the US) you can get lovely cheap design even by outsouring to the US...

heggie

IF they understand the target market, and thats a big if, would probably make more sense that you can get cheaper coding, as valid code is valid code

AARRRGH

Valid design isn't valid design?

Seriously, what design differences are there between US (or whereever) and Irish sites?

Just so we're clear now, you're an Irish company who offers web design (and not code), right? The reason I ask is because you are going to be extremely biased here. I don't have anything to gain by giving my opinion.

Webmonkey

Dublindude I understand what you are saying regarding outsourcing alright but that is only for the experienced person who knows what they are looking for.
I'm guessing the OP wouldn't know the first place to look for a designer not to mind what they want.

People will judge a lot by looking at a company site - if it isn't good and done cheaply then the chances are it will not look good. But that doesn't mean everyone that does sites cheap, don't design well - but these individuals can be difficult to find.

Staff.ie is a different type of site altogether from what a business site would look like. In my opinion - a lot more work in design has to go into a company web site.

AARRRGH

I agree outsourcing does require a certain amount of cop on, and I can see the value in getting a local company to do the job for you.

People here (e.g. Irish webdesign companies) have a tendency to dismiss outsourcing because it is a threat to their business. IMO this is not a valid argument so I will always try to balance things out a bit. The Irish hosting companies are guilty of this too.

The poor OP asked a simple question and it escalated into a bitch fest

CuLT

Webmonkey wrote: »

Staff.ie is a different type of site altogether from what a business site would look like. In my opinion - a lot more work in design has to go into a company web site.

I would tend to agree here, but I think it's likely that people are mincing their words and making a dog's dinner out of this whole thread.

A brick and mortar company's web presence should be a visual reflection of the corporate identity; hence why, as you put it, "the design" gets much more time/effort than that of a web application (which staff.ie is).

This line of thought though only applies in cases where a company has no intention of branching out to the Internet as another portal for their business, and rather just wants it as an "information kiosk" of sorts.

A web developer is more likely to scoff at this than a web designer simply because the web developer doesn't have much creative input in such a situation. The reverse also applies to the web designer when the web application, what it does and how it does it are the primary focus.

Webmonkey

Yeah I do agree - I do web design myself though just as a freelancer.

Yeah the poor OP won't know what he started - anyways think we've reached end of this

AARRRGH

Webmonkey wrote: »

Yeah the poor OP won't know what he started - anyways think we've reached end of this

Maybe someone can insult my mother so we can bring things off on another tangent

PS Good post CuLT

Webmonkey

dublindude wrote: »

Maybe someone can insult my mother so we can bring things off on another tangent

heggie

dublindude wrote: »

Just so we're clear now, you're an Irish company who offers web design (and not code), right? The reason I ask is because you are going to be extremely biased here. I don't have anything to gain by giving my opinion.

I offer design & code, again, I'm not pimping my business, infact coming from someone who mentioned their site repeatedly in this thread, thats a bit rich.

forbairt

dublindude wrote: »

I agree outsourcing does require a certain amount of cop on, and I can see the value in getting a local company to do the job for you.

People here (e.g. Irish webdesign companies) have a tendency to dismiss outsourcing because it is a threat to their business. IMO this is not a valid argument so I will always try to balance things out a bit. The Irish hosting companies are guilty of this too.

The poor OP asked a simple question and it escalated into a bitch fest

Honey ... I'm Home !!!


OK I've skipped a few posts ... as its saturday I'm having a beer (again EEK!!!) and heading to a party in a while when I've finished a bit of work .... (so I may disappear without responding)


This thread drags on and on on a completely different topic ...
( I don't think its degenerated into a bitch fest as such yet ... more a heated argument )



The Original Poster asked to have a website developed ... not just designed.

To me this means something having dealt with various clients who's asked me to develop a website for them.

It means Make me a website I will probably supply you with content and images and some feedback apart from that guide me and take care of it all so I don't have to (cus I'm busy making money)

Fine we've now got

- Domain Name
- Hosting
- Design
- Template
- Fixing up Various Pages
- Custom Graphics
- Custom Imagery (sourcing of images)
- Custom Coding and features
- Potentially a Logo
- Search Engine Optimization


- Domain 10 - 50 quid (IE)
- Hosting - 50 quid
- You said the Design cost you 200 quid outsourced
- Getting the template made up will probably cost you another 200 quid
Custom Logo ? (maybe / maybe not) I've seen some attrocious logos people have and have recommended they rebrand themselves ... some take it onboard some don't ... I've done in it some cases ... they've gotten others to do it.
- Custom graphics / imagery for each of the pages
- Putting it all together


Staff.ie ... I like in some ways ... I don't like in others ... (but thats not at question here similar the table designs question .. won't mean a lot to a business person or a programmer a lot of time)
Its not a business website that has to wow visitors ... its a functional website that has to adhere to certain usability guidelines.


Now ... we're on around 500 quid at least without taking into account the guys time to figure out how to put it all together.

Lets have a think about the legal implications of it now ... ooh its been designed by someone and they've told us its unique ... I paid with pay pal ... ... is that a signed contract ? ... am I dealing with a company who have done the design ? (possibley ... possibley not) ...

Getty Images and various other image banks at the moment have various bots crawling the web looking for their images so ... when you find that the woman in the nice dress that added a nice feel to your website is actually copyright of them and you're being handed a bill for £1600 for that images illegal use on your site ... you may think oh I'll just say I didn't know ... maybe it works .. maybe it doesn't ... the legal battle goes on ... over a number of months and in the end ... they can't track this person down ... do you pay the fine or do you go to court ? ... up to you..
[Why I mention this ... I've one customer who supplied me with a "design" and it turns out 1 of the images may end up costing them 1.6K sterling - The "designers" response was ... oh just tell them I got it from google Images *rotfl*]


So we're back to the original figure I quoted of €1 - 5K€ to have someone manage all this for you ... who you can meet with ... who just handles things ... guides you and lets you get on with business. Worth it? I'd like to think so. Am I biased ... I'd like to think not ... I tend to tell my customers how it is .. and what they are getting ... its up to them to decide if they want to go with me for the job.

Trojan

I believe that Dublindude quoting figures of one and two hundred euros is leading people astray: he is valueing his own input of hours of project management and programming at €0 - that is unrealistic for any commercial project without a programmer and PM who will work for no fees.

forbairt

Trojan wrote: »

I believe that Dublindude quoting figures of one and two hundred euros is leading people astray: he is valueing his own input of hours of project management and programming at €0 - that is unrealistic for any commercial project without a programmer and PM who will work for no fees.

He did already mention this ...

dublindude wrote: »

I'm with you on the "how much did staff.ie REALLY cost you" question. I've spent years thinking about it and developing it. So we're talking thousands of hours of time. However the software is so cool (I have AI which automatically ranks each job application) that it can't really be compared to a normal site...

thousands = more than 2 ... so the minimum wage in ireland = 8.65 or something like that ??

2000 x 8.65 = 17300 EUR ... + 205 ( 200 + 5 fee to post :P ) ... + logo design (didn't mention the cost of that I think ) = 17505+ already ... You really should have outsourced the coding on the project you could have had it for 200 quid (joke) (ok sorry I couldn't resist)