Workout for Shoudlers / Back

GerryRyan

I've been getting into the weights and conditioning over the last few weeks - and while I'm seeing and feeling some gains already, I'm not sure if I'm training my shoulders and upper back right. They're just not feeling as worked or sore as the rest after a session.

M/19/6'00/ @ roughly 12 stone, not overly muscular but toned up enough (not being cocky, but that's the best way I can explain it).
I'm aiming for a good balance of size and strength - overall.

I need a workout or two to really fry the shoulders and upper/middle back.

Pull-Ups, Press-Ups, Renegade Rows, DB and BB rows, Military Press, DB Snatches - what else should I be including to really work these muscle groups? I'm lifting heavy enough (benching 65kg anyway) and DB rowing 25kg + DB's (for example).

My set-up is 3 sets of 6-8 or 5 sets of 5, and I go to failure with any legs movements.

Now, if I'm really looking to work them hard - how many days apart should shoulders and upper/middle back be - or is it ok to do them on the same day?

Colm_OReilly

Deadlifts, Front Squats, Power Clean, Handstand Press Ups. Sumo Deadlift High Pulls, Dips.

Dragan

Back can be a notoriously hard muscle group for people to work....it can be tough to get the right contraction going as you have no visual connection to the muscle.

You need to feel it working, good strong contractions each and every time!

Shoulders are similar, i used to find it very hard to get DOMS in my shoulders until i cracked the best way to train them for me....which turned out to be plenty of heavy pressing variants! Who knew!

Vegeta

Dragan wrote: »

Back can be a notoriously hard muscle group for people to work....it can be tough to get the right contraction going as you have no visual connection to the muscle.

You need to feel it working, good strong contractions each and every time!

Couldn't agree more, I really struggle to work my upper back/shoulders well. Every other muscle group I can pump the crap out of, but these ara tricky ones

Cravez

Dragan wrote:

Shoulders are similar, i used to find it very hard to get DOMS in my shoulders until i cracked the best way to train them for me....which turned out to be plenty of heavy pressing variants! Who knew!

Heavy Pressing FTW! I had problems with my shoulders for ages until i started hitting them heavy and hard and now they're are starting to get bigger and stronger

What id recommend for a Back/Shoulder Workout:
Back
- Pull ups (weighted preferably)
- Deadlifts (Conventional, Sumo or Snatch Grip)
- Barbell or Dumbell Bent Over Rows
Shoulders
- Power Cleans OR Snatchs (not both, very taxing exercises)
- Seated Dumbell Presses
- Face Pulls
- Bent Over Lateral Raises

Id throw in Rear Delt Dumbell Flyes also as they would work your posterior Delts and some involvment with the rhomboids.

3 sets of 6-8 reps or 5 x 5 seem fine. Id probably go with 4 sets of 6-8 reps though.Why i chose weighted pull-ups is because iv never experienced better growth for back width than doing pull-ups weighted, try various different ones each week also or maybe doing wide grip pull-ups for 3 sets then your last set would be narrow grip. As regarding doing both back/shoulders on the same day, the both of them do go well together and some shoulder exercises can involve some of the back muscles (like the rhomboids). However id say since you will be hitting heavy poundage on these days i would probably do them on seperate days if possible. If you do decide to them on seperate days id throw in another back exercise of your choice onto the list, like Cable Rows, Lat Pull-down etc

Hanley

I don't really see how power cleans or power snatches are a shoulder exercise? Almost all the force should come from the hips, with a quick shrug to keep the bar moving up straight and not swinging out forwards. The shoulders really should have no part to play.

I've NEVER got shoulder DOMs before. It's not something that particularly bothers me either. Just hit pressing movements hard and do your raises under relative control they should progress.

As for your upper back (which is what I believe you're looking to work?), dumbbell rows, chest supported rows, seated dumbbell powercleans, face pulls and dumbbell rows with your elbows flair on a shallow incline are all awesome. The first two I mentioned are he ones I'd push for heavier and heavier weight on, where as the last 3 are all "feel" movements for me that I like to do reps of 12-15 on.

Shrimp

I find bent over BB rows are great for the back, I can feel it everytime! Make sure the weight is heavey enough tha you can control a full ROM and are nearly failing on the last rep.

As for shoulders I find Barbell Millitary press great!

kevpants

Have to say I recommend the aul hand stand press up for shoulders.

You'll spend the first two weeks working up the courage to do an actual handstand but once you start the improvements are massive. At the start you'll barely bend your elbows before the floor will come rushing towards your face but I can knock out several sets of about 5 full ones working down to failure now and by military press has MASSIVELY improved. I had plateaued at about 55kg to 60kg being a weight I could manage even 3 or 4 reps at but I'm getting 5 - 8 reps out of 70kg now.

lolo2

agree with kev, handstand push ups for shoulder work. cant beat em.

TerrorFirmer

I normally do military press for the shoulders, wrecks me and I only started doing shoulder work (proper) a few weeks ago. Oh, and also pull ups, some db raises, etc.

I try to work back into my routine but I find it so hard to know if I'm doing it right - I'm half afraid I'm putting pressure on my back in the worst way possible. I must keep an eye on this thread. Everytime I visit this forum I pick up something new within seconds...

rubadub

kevpants wrote: »

military press has MASSIVELY improved. I had plateaued at about 55kg to 60kg being a weight I could manage even 3 or 4 reps at but I'm getting 5 - 8 reps out of 70kg now.

I found negative work really helped my pullups and chinups, and HSPUs are a sort of negative military press. I am far more comfortable doing bodyweight exercises too, so think I push myself more doing them. I am practising the HSPU at the moment. I found a few bodyweight sites with more tips.

http://www.bodyweightculture.com/forum/index.php
http://www.bodyweighttraining.org/forum/

nibble

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I normally do military press for the shoulders, wrecks me and I only started doing shoulder work (proper) a few weeks ago. Oh, and also pull ups, some db raises, etc.

I try to work back into my routine but I find it so hard to know if I'm doing it right - I'm half afraid I'm putting pressure on my back in the worst way possible. I must keep an eye on this thread. Everytime I visit this forum I pick up something new within seconds...

Deadlifts, Rows, pullups.

TerrorFirmer

Yeah I do bent over rows and pull ups, but I don't do deadlifts, I have something wrong with my left leg that if I put too much pressure on it it gets excruciating painful (and I mean that, in the sense of, genuine extreme pain not exertion). So I really can't do much in the line of leg work/workouts that involve exerting pressure on legs. Trapped nerve or something..

nibble

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Yeah I do bent over rows and pull ups, but I don't do deadlifts, I have something wrong with my left leg that if I put too much pressure on it it gets excruciating painful (and I mean that, in the sense of, genuine extreme pain not exertion). So I really can't do much in the line of leg work/workouts that involve exerting pressure on legs. Trapped nerve or something..

Can you do back hyperextensions? I'd add them If you can't deadlift. I presume you've seen a doctor about that pain? 'Cos if not might be a good idea!

TerrorFirmer

Yeah, she's the one that said it's probably a trapped nerve/bunch of nerves - something to that effect anyway. I have to look up hyper extensions to see what they are...thanks!