UMAREX aqcuires rights for H&Ks designs and trademarks

Puding

Interesting news ( well scary really ) over at arnies, http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=134739&st=0 it appears a company have brought the trademark and designs worldwide and are rather aggressive in there control.

ED E

Puding wrote: »

Interesting news ( well scary really ) over at arnies, http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=134739&st=0 it appears a company have brought the trademark and designs worldwide and are rather aggressive in there control.

UMAREX = KJ Works:D

NakedDex

I half expected this.

Umarex are quite the little brand pimp and they've been edging more and more into H&K stuff in the last few years. They're reputation is quite mired and from experience with FT and 10m target shooting, where they're a reasonably big name, I can tell you that I haven't used a good Umarex product yet. It'll be a dark day if they manage to cease production of TM, CA, ICS, JG etc versions of what has become one of the best loved airsoft guns out there.

Personally, I'm rather worried about it. It may not be time for me, and any other H&K lovers out there, to panic buy the good stuff while it's around yet. But it doesn't look like that time is far away.

Puding

Agree i don;t see them being able to stop production of h&k based products from the ease but they can more than likely control the market in Europe. Another thing people have been saying is that they will simple pull a cybergun and rebrand a large number of other products with a nice mark up, time will tell.

I have to say my h&k have moved up the shopping list, i expect we will hear more over the next days/week with the Shot Show, apparently according to the thread the company have already been in contact with makers of h&k replica's at the show, we will have to see how the win blows.

NakedDex

I hope they simply pull a Cybergun on it. It'd be a crying shame to see the entire range pulled from general production just so they can produce poor quality ones. I expect if they do manage it though, exisiting H&K guns will go up in price by a large amount. They're popular enough as it is without them suddenly becoming a rare piece.

zero19

I HATE Umarex

Alvin T. Grey

I quite like them. Yes, I like them quite a bit actually.

zero19

Had one their AK's that put me off them

weeder

First of all, UMAREX is sueing all german airsoft retailers for selling HK-lookalikes. WTF?!? Yes - they didn't only buy the rights for the logo. They also bought the rights for the design patents. Worldwide! That basically means they can sue any company producing or selling lookalikes of G36s, USPs or HK416s!

As a start they are trying to ban all those clones from the market in Germany. I also heard of UMAREX representatives threatening companies at the Shot Show. So they ARE going international already.

im really a fan of HK submachine guns so this annoys me

Alvin T. Grey

Bugger that All my kit is H&K....

Puding

Items you already have would be fine its just the future sale of unauthorized copy's in Europe/US that will be stopped/restricted, someone quoted shopped have been getting letter to cease and desist by 11th of this month or something. Looks like ca and ics might be alright as they already have permission from H&k.

Fallschirmjager

what a bizzario thing for H&K to do! jeeze WTF are they thinking...all for a couple of million dollars...

now i know what you may say- its their product etc etc , but the eventual effect of this is the almost total disappearance of airsoft related H&K products, meaning films wont have them, airsofters wont have them, collectors wont etc etc because you can bet they will charge a friggen fortune for the subletting of licenses on the design meaning you and i will have to pay above prices for H&K lookalikes...All of these other channels were simply routes leading to people buying the eventual real steel versions...H&K have decided to dump that...:eek:

airsoft was a free marketing channel for them...they have decided to sever that for a couple of million dollars...that is so insane...and to deal with a shower of muppets like umarex...someone on H&K HQ was sold a pup here....

weeder

so have HK lost any chance in pulling out then? if not a lot of people should email them stating how inferior umarex are and refuse to buy them or send actual letters and it would be more effective

Alvin T. Grey

Puding wrote: »

Items you already have would be fine its just the future sale of unauthorized copy's in Europe/US that will be stopped/restricted, someone quoted shopped have been getting letter to cease and desist by 11th of this month or something. Looks like ca and ics might be alright as they already have permission from H&k.

It's getting replacement parts or adding new models that would concern me.

I might have to give up airsofting altogether. Because quite frankly I'm not buying Armalites.:D

Masada

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

I might have to give up airsofting altogether. Because quite frankly I'm not buying Armalites.:D

thas what i thought, now i have 2.,:D

Shiva

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

It's getting replacement parts or adding new models that would concern me.

I might have to give up airsofting altogether. Because quite frankly I'm not buying Armalites.:D

Simple solution.

Buy a DBoys M4, and use Tipp-Ex to paint the H&K logo, and "416" on the receiver.

Its what I did to the one I sold you.....

/runs

Stercus Accidit

Shiva wrote: »

Simple solution.

Buy a DBoys M4, and use Tipp-Ex to paint the H&K logo, and "416" on the receiver.

Its what I did to the one I sold you.....

/runs

How much for the official HK416 kit? That includes the little brush right?

Alvin T. Grey

Shiva wrote: »

Simple solution.

Buy a DBoys M4, and use Tipp-Ex to paint the H&K logo, and "416" on the receiver.

Its what I did to the one I sold you.....

/runs

Touche!
:D:D:D

Alvin T. Grey

Motosam wrote: »

How much for the official HK416 kit? That includes the little brush right?

The only good part is the TipEx.......

NakedDex

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

what a bizzario thing for H&K to do! jeeze WTF are they thinking...all for a couple of million dollars...

It's not really, they're in business to make money and that is a couple of million they weren't seeing at all despite there being so many H&K replicas out there. They never had a licence out for them previous to this so it gained them nothing. They're an RS manufacturer, I doubt they have a deep knowledge of the airsoft industry. If they had I would assume they would have put the contract to tender and chosen a considerably better company than Umarex. I'd put solid money on it that Umarex approached H&K, not the other way around.
If you had a massively popular product and someone told you they wanted to hand you a few million for free so they could make copies of it for a market that would in no way infringe your existing one, you'd jump at the chance.



I hate the idea of Umarex only making H&K aegs and gbbs but I doubt it will happen. Umarex will likely farm the contract out to the likes of CA and TM for a price as an "authorised" H&K manufacturer. This will lead to an increase in price but I doubt the quality will drop away.
I'd like to know what way it leaves the countries who don't allow trademarks anyway, are they going to have to pay OTT prices for a trademark that's going to be obliterated before it enters the country?

If Umarex do make them exclusively though, I doubt any airsofter worth his/her salt will buy them. An all out boycott would occur.

du beton

stupid question but does this mean u won't be able to pick up stuff like the JG H&K MP5 or the Well H&K mp7 off of retailers any more unless sanctioned or manufactured by URAMEX. ( I know stupid question):rolleyes:

NakedDex

That's exactly what it means, any brand other than Umarex are breaking copyright law by producing them

Puding

So far there trying to stop the sale of all copys not made by them in eurpe and the us, so in theory you will not be able to buy the items you said in these areas, depends how far they are looking to push this, they could aways go as far as customs and trying to stop people directly importing the items from HK.

Alvin T. Grey

NakedDex wrote: »

That's exactly what it means, any brand other than Umarex are breaking copyright law by producing them

Has that ever stopped the Chinese?

Puding

They will be unable to inforce it in japan and china they never signed up to the treats, other have tryed to take companys based there to court e.g cybergun v TM, but never won.

rgt320q

Thank christ TM and that will still be in the game. Do Taiwan abide by international copyright laws?

DTC

I've never had any experience with any of there airsoft gear before but from experience with some of their air guns and haven't found them lacking in any respect.

NakedDex

I bloody have.

DTC

I've have a couple of there products and love em, don't wana get specific cos this is an airsoft forum.

Stercus Accidit

Considering the cheeky chinese and dboys JG etc. playing a blinder, I think we'll be grand.

Fill you clone body with whatever you want, and there are still high enders in the game?

I dont think this will affect us, the chinese will see a niche and flood it.

And you could also get ca, just maybe no middle of the road guys.

Be positive people.


Edit: Was just reading the arnies thread, seems that umarex make crap guns, and will sue european retailers that sell hk LOOKALIKES,
That means they are trying to take action not against trades alone, but anything that looks like a HK.

They are calling for a boycott on arnies against any umarex tat, I'm in, I have no desire for inferior crap protected by lawsuits. Thats little more than a monopoly.

It worked on cybergun. Link < this is the arnies thread just for more info.

Puding

Japan china etc etc will not be stopped by this but you miss the point if they choose to play hard ball then you will not be able to import these items directly, does not matter what the law is in china you just simple will not be able to ship them to Ireland they will be sized by the likes of customs.

Little bit more info on http://airsoftnews.eu/news.php

Umarex: Worldwide H&K Licence
It is official: Umarex bought an exclusive licence for use of trademarks and models for Heckler&Koch in airsoft. Starting from February, 11, no H&K designs other than Umarex's are allowed to be sold. This goes for Europe, and quite soon also the rest of the world.

Heckler & Koch Gmbh is sending a strong worded letter to the "whom it may concern." We obtained a copy of said letter, dated January 7, which basically confirms that Umarex has obtained trademark and dress rights for H&K products in forms of airsoft replicas, CO2, starter guns, toys and paintball markers.

What will be the overall impact of this business decision? Stay tuned.

rgt320q

So will I be pretty much f***ed if I decide to order the likes of a USP from ehobbyasia or wgcs after Feb 11th?

o1s1n

At the moment they're going after European stores which sell them. The distributors. Somehow I can't imagine an order from China being stopped?

Can you really see customs sitting there with a big list of pictures of HK products checking them against every airsoft package that goes through? Seems a bit far fetched if you ask me. But what do I know...

I'd say the danger here is if they start going after manufacturers. As long as the gear is being made, would imagine it'll find its way through.*
























*If you buy a HK piece and don't get it in the post, don't blame me

weeder

what does shiva have to say on the matter? i'd love to hear a retailers point of view(opposed to his tipp exing armalites )

NakedDex

Remember I said earlier that it's not time to panic buy H&K units yet but the time isn't looking far away.



Guess what, it's here. Time to place an order...

Hivemind187

Bugger, Bugger, Bugger.

The fact that have the rights to the "models" is really irritating.

So this means I'm screwed if I want to get a G36 now does it? I'm on the boycott UMAREX bandwagon, I'd go so far as to refuse to buy ANY HK resembling product for fear that it has been tainted by the disease of over zealous copyright law.

Once the Irish retailers run out of the stuff they have already I mean.

Gatling

PANIC BUY

ah here its not that bad

NakedDex

I've been coveting a USP Tactical for a while now, looks like if I want to get it I'll have to get it next week. I'm considering getting a UMP now just to have it before this all happens.

I wonder how it'll effect magazines, they're part of the H&K copyright designs so does this mean even compatible parts are at risk of being unavailable? Am I gonna have to order a case of G36 mags before they're illegal to sell?

This is a giant step backwards for airsoft

Gatling

dont get a usp ,its all whiney whe you rack the slide

NakedDex

Oh but I love them so! I don't know why I still haven't got one. Or a blowback MK23 SOCOM

Puding

Brief outline of points in there press release/letter translated from German

- the Umarex Group acquired the licensing right for all types of airsoft and replica guns from Heckler & Koch.
- they are very serious about enforcing their rights. As a start they are "asking" all the shops to remove their stock of HK replica guns until February 11th. The only exceptions for the moment are the CA G3 and MP5 series.
- they are planning to introduce their own line of trademarked airsoft guns soon, but it will be cheap guns. Maybe by mid 2008 there will be another line of "higher quality" guns.

bullets

Grrr. I've still to get the SL8 the UMP, the USP and the MP7.

~B

Stercus Accidit

Puding wrote: »

Maybe by mid 2008 there will be another line of "higher quality" guns.

Big bloody maybe,

It used to be quality was awarded by good word of mouth, reviews and exoerience, the new high end hk stuff is now high end because we are bloody well told so, and if it isnt, tough luck.

With no real competition whats the motivation to make anything new or unique internally, or of a good quality.

Fcuk umarex and greedy hk.

Thus will be set a precedent, with tm and china outside of copyright law and with their own market, they may not bother aquiring rights, so whos left?

We'll all be down to maaadddd and dildo shops to get a ping wang wing g36 smellpeg soon, as soon glock will be aquired, berreta, colt, kalashnikov?
Boycott is the only way, down with the system man!

zero19

Motosam wrote: »

Big bloody maybe,

It used to be quality was awarded by good word of mouth, reviews and exoerience, the new high end hk stuff is now high end because we are bloody well told so, and if it isnt, tough luck.

With no real competition whats the motivation to make anything new or unique internally, or of a good quality.

Fcuk umarex and greedy hk.

Thus will be set a precedent, with tm and china outside of copyright law and with their own market, they may not bother aquiring rights, so whos left?

We'll all be down to maaadddd and dildo shops to get a ping wang wing g36 smellpeg soon, as soon glock will be aquired, berreta, colt, kalashnikov?
Boycott is the only way, down with the system man!

Yeah i'm with you on the boycott sam :cool:

NakedDex

I'd boycott them anyway, I would't use that muck if you paid me.

Witcher

NakedDex wrote: »

I'd boycott them anyway,

+1

viva la revolucion




:cool::cool::cool:

Captain Chaos

Puding wrote: »

- the Umarex Group acquired the licensing right for all types of airsoft and replica guns from Heckler & Koch.
- they are very serious about enforcing their rights. As a start they are "asking" all the shops to remove their stock of HK replica guns until February 11th. The only exceptions for the moment are the CA G3 and MP5 series.

The CA G3 and MP5 series are excluded, does this include the G36 and related SL8/9 series aswell?

This is shocking news, and a sad day for H&K fans, me included.:(
Think I'm going to have to put the AUG purchase on the long finger and buy myself a few quality H&Ks and a USP Compact with metal slide.

Shiva

I don't think this is going to be such a big deal. At least I hope it wont.

The way I see it, Umarex may not give a toss for the Airsoft community, but they are a big company, with a long history, run by people with a head for business - they will have seen the backlash against Cybergun, and learned from it. I would imagine they'll simply license the H&K shapes and trademarks to manufacturers, and things will continue as normal.

The initial muscle-flexing is only to be expected. If they aren't seen to be protecting their trademark, they wont be allowed to enforce it in court, so they have to set a precedent before getting down to doing business.

And to those of you who think China can ignore copyright and wont have to pay the licensing fees....you're wrong. They've gotten away with it for 30 or more years now, but their economy is growing at a phenomenal rate, and they're desperate to gain entry to the WTO in order to keep growing. In order to do that, they have to sign up to copyright protection treaties, and be seen to enforce them with their own manufacturers.....and they will. Don't kid yourselves that the lack of respect for copyright will continue indefinitely.

Alvin T. Grey

And in the meantime, my tipexed M4 (curtesy of Tony) just doubled in price!

It's now apparently worth 2 bags of jellibabies.....:D
Now if they only aquired Glock, I might be able to give those three he sold me away...

Fallschirmjager

pity as i had plans to get the vfc 416 and a ksc mk23...guess i will can that idea...

Captain Chaos

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

pity as i had plans to get the vfc 416 and a ksc mk23...guess i will can that idea...

No high quality HK 417 either..

I was just thinking if Umarex really go the whole way with this, CA will have to close a lot of production lines and they will have to can some of their new Sportsline range aswell.

No G36E/K/C and SL9, G3A3/KA4/SG1, the 8 or so versions of the MP5 and the AG36 launcher all gone from just CA alone.

Then Marui, JG, ICS, Star, G&G, KSC/KWA will be hit and a few more.

The L85s will also be hit as H&K bought Royal Ordinance in the UK.

One company spends a few million to buy rights and trades including shapes and designs and 7 or so companies get stung out of the market. How this can be legal I don't know. Seems anyone with a bit of money can buy can screw anyone they want.