Weights before cardio?

Faith

I've seen it mentioned here a couple of times that you should do weights before cardio. I've tried this the last couple of times at the gym, but I find it's a hindrance. I'm knackered way fasted when I do my cardio!

Why is it suggested to do weights first? Is there a huge benefit, or just a little one?

rubadub

Have a feed before the gym. Now you are full of energy, muscles full of glycogen (energy/power). Now you are able to lift to your best ability. This taxes the muscles more until they are zapped of energy. Your muscles are worked to the max and so stimulated to grow more.

Now you start your cardio. The muscles have little energy left in them, you are knackered, so your body starts looking for energy elsewhere- dipping into your fat stores more.

Now when you go home your body is buring calories building new muscle, and burning more calories maintaining new muscle.

Now the reverse, you go to the gym and do cardio first. You are burning off all the muscles energy first from your eating during the day. You body is getting its fuel from what is already in the muscles, not burning relatively much fat. Now you are knackered and cannot lift the weights to your best ability, so you do not stimulate much growth.

Some of the experts might correct some of that, or add more indepth info or technical terms, but it is basically why it is advised to lift first. If I wake in the morning I can only do ~80% of the reps I can after eating. In the morning your body is starved of glycogen, just like after a cardio workout.

Some will purposely do cardio on an empty stomach- no glycogen for many reasons. The following is from a great book, "feed the muscle burn the fat" from here
http://www.burnthefat.com/

Any time of day that suits your schedule is a good time for cardio. The important
thing is that you just do it. However, many bodybuilders and fitness models believe that
early morning fasted cardio burns more body fat. Although this is still controversial, the
evidence is strong and there are many reasons to consider doing cardio first thing in the
morning on an empty stomach. The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes
something like this:
1. After an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body's stores of glycogen are depleted and you
burn more fat when glycogen is low.
2. Eating causes a release of insulin. Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat.
Less insulin is present in the morning; so more body fat is burned when cardio is done in
the morning.
3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) in the bloodstream when you wake up after an
overnight fast. With less glucose available, you burn more fat.
4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first
before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)
5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of
time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during
the session, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your
metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.
6. Morning cardio gives you a feeling of accomplishment and makes you feel great all day
by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.
7. Morning cardio "energizes" you and "wakes you up."
8. Morning cardio may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.
9. Your body’s circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to
wake up at the same time every day.
10. You’ll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when it’s out of the way early (like
when you’re exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for
happy hour).
11. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54636494

Colm_OReilly

rubadub's advice is solid within the context of what is conventionally viewed as "fitness".

The whole weights and cardio thing makes a number of assumptions and simplifies things (too much in my opinion). It assumes there is two components to fitness, strength and cardio. Or there's muscle building and fat burning and these are discreet entities in fitness.

A contention that there is more to fitness - strength, stamina, cardiorespiratory endurance, flexibility, speed, power, agility, coordination, accuracy and balance - leads to think that doing weights, then cardio, misses out on a lot. (By the way, these ten components will be further refined, added to, deleted as time and experience continue)

By all accounts (if you are interested in fitness as defined by overall capacity across broad modal and time domains - ie the ability to do a lot of sh1t well) you may be asked to express your strength while your heart rate is high and your lungs are pounding. Think firefighters as an extreme and obvious example of this need. So really there is no need to segment your weights and cardio. Doing a whole load of reps of different exercises as quickly as possible, or switching between rowing and running and pressing or pulling rapidly delivers a better overall hit and increases your fitness.

The drawback in not training one aspect of fitness in isolation is that your sacrifice your maximum potential in one area of fitness. When people advice weights first this strategy is in place so that the negative effect cardio has on strength or growth is reduced. But cardio adaptations always take preference over strength gains, so any cardio will reduce your maximum strength gains.

Kilgore suggested that this is an evolutionary thing, for being able to run away really fast is an immediate survival skill, whereas developing strength takes more time and was more likely not an immediate requirement of staying alive.

Of course, it all depends on what your aims are.
Colm

Gumbyman

Tremendous post. Thanks Rubadub! I just printed that out for myself in case I forget it.

g'em

And men complain that wimmin talk too much? :rolleyes:

Faith wrote: »

Why is it suggested to do weights first? Is there a huge benefit, or just a little one?

It's a little one, but it's important. Under the assumption that you want to look good nekkid as your primary goal, weights will give you a better shape quicker. Weights will burn fat AND make muscle. Cardio only burns fat.

Do weights first (making the foundations, it requires 100% effort) and cardio afterwards (an extra helping hand for fat loss).

MrMan

I alternate cardio and weight days.

I always workout first thing in the morning with an empty stomach to max the fat burning as weight lose is my aim. On my weight days I do a 10 min warm up on the treadmill then 40 mins weights and finish with a 10 mins on the rower followed by a 'refreshing' protein drink!

Should I also be eating a banana/taking a glucose supplement before my workout on the weight days?

Faith

Thanks a million for the great replies, guys!

It's fat loss that I'm primarily after now, then I'll spend more time focussing on strength. But even after two weeks of weights and cardio, my mum saw a noticable difference in my figure, and I'm starting to see a hint of definition coming into my arms.

Reyman

Faith wrote: »

Thanks a million for the great replies, guys!

It's fat loss that I'm primarily after now, then I'll spend more time focussing on strength. But even after two weeks of weights and cardio, my mum saw a noticable difference in my figure, and I'm starting to see a hint of definition coming into my arms.

Mum's are biased - careful!

You need to measure the HTR: 'Head turn ratio' -The number of heads that turn in the gym as you walk by versus those that don't.

Dragan

Faith wrote: »

Thanks a million for the great replies, guys!

It's fat loss that I'm primarily after now, then I'll spend more time focussing on strength. But even after two weeks of weights and cardio, my mum saw a noticable difference in my figure, and I'm starting to see a hint of definition coming into my arms.

Deadly buzz! It's when you start seeing the improvements that you really fall in love with the whole thing!

It goes from "i want to be in better shape" to "wow....i can be hella sexay if i try!"

diarmuidc

cardio should be done first that way you are well warmed up for weights session

Hanley

diarmuidc wrote: »

cardio should be done first that way you are well warmed up for weights session

Using cardio as a weights warm up and leaving it at that is a terrible idea imo. I don't see how running on a threadmill prep's the body to bench press or deadlift. Plus too much cardio's just gonna sap your strength levels and leave you half a$$ing it in the weight room. Weights first, cardio second is the best way to do it. That's assuming the goal is to look good nekkid.

It would be a much better idea to start with a general warm up of leg swings, circles with your arms and torso twists and that sorta jazz before jumping into work with just the bar. Taking the joints thru a full range of motion and waking the muscles up that way is far more efficient imo. I always do at least 2 or 3 sets with just the bar before I do my first lift of the day.

diarmuidc

cardio covers alot more than just running!

cowzerp

A 5 min cardio warm up is fine, but you should warm up on weights at about 50% of what you plan to lift,,i do 2 warm up sets on each body part i plan to train..

cavanmaniac

As a slight aside, on gym days I'll have a dinner of one scoop mash, veggies and the leanest meat I can get that hasn't been destroyed by some sauce or other. Then I'll have a sambo about 4.30/5.00, come home and have some low fat yogurt and maybe an apple in the 15-20 mins before hitting the gym at about 7, 7.30.

I'm assuming I'm not hindering myself with the yogurt and apple, I wouldn't like to do my workout on a fast between 5pm and 9.30ish?

nibble

cavanmaniac wrote: »

As a slight aside, on gym days I'll have a dinner of one scoop mash, veggies and the leanest meat I can get that hasn't been destroyed by some sauce or other. Then I'll have a sambo about 4.30/5.00, come home and have some low fat yogurt and maybe an apple in the 15-20 mins before hitting the gym at about 7, 7.30.

I'm assuming I'm not hindering myself with the yogurt and apple, I wouldn't like to do my workout on a fast between 5pm and 9.30ish?

Eat full fat yougurt and don't worry about fatty meat, unless you really, really don't want the few extra calories for some reason.