Do you think people who believe in God due to a lack of intelligence?

Tim Robbins

Hi,
I hope you don't mind another poll.I think it's a good way of getting a snap shot of people's opinions. It can also be a good way to start a discussion.
Rgds

PS I wouldn't mind doing a view more polls, any chances of some guidleines and rules please.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Don't know

intelligence no, critical thinking and honesty yeah.
i think i saw michael shermer saying before 'smart people are very good at believing smart things for stupid reasons'.

Hivemind187

Don't know

People like PDN believe for reasons I cant explain. Other people believe because their critical faculties go no deep than the bottom of a pint of Guinness.

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Do you think people who believe in God due to a lack of intelligence?

Oh the irony. I just love it.

Tim Robbins wrote:

PS I wouldn't mind doing a view more polls, any chances of some guidleines and rules please.

Any poll is fine as long as it's relevant. But don't be creating several at once as that just dilutes the discussion. And people find it hard enough to stay on-topic as it is!

RobEire

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

I have sometimes wondered about this. I do know some highly intelligent people people from the religion I used to be part of who believe (or seem to) wholeheartedly in what said religion teaches. I have wondered (especially since I finally woke up and saw the charade for what it was) if they genuinely believe, or just tow the party line because there are social and familial benefits for doing so.

After all, if you do not believe in God/religion, yet those nearest and dearest to you do, and you stand to lose a lot by going against that belief, it might be more appealing, and just easier, to go with the flow...

Scofflaw

Dades wrote: »

Oh the irony. I just love it.

Any poll is fine as long as it's relevant. But don't be creating several at once as that just dilutes the discussion. And people find it hard enough to stay on-topic as it is!

No we don't! Speaking of which, have you read any good figs recently?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

I see what you've done there - but I won't pretend to know what a 'fig' refers to in that remark!

OK-Cancel-Apply

Don't know

There's a huge guilt and fear factor with religion, so it might depend on how much it was hammered into you in childhood. That's the time when our minds learn how to tell what is real and what is fantasy. Religion, IMO, isn't so much a lie that's told, which some people are dumb enough to believe, but more of a brainwashing that some people never get over. I think religion is losing its grip though, and I'd be surprised if many still believe it in 50 years.

bogwalrus

No

i was asking a similar thing in the science form there a while back. the topic is still there if any1 wants to comment;) I might have asked the question arse ways but sure.......

Sapien

I think religious belief is more akin to mental illness. I believe that intelligence has little effect on the ability of an individual to overcome religiosity, but grants resistance to newly introduced religious ideas. That whole Cognitive Immune System thing.

It's rather like cancer, or perhaps severe allergic reactions, where the immune system attacks the body it is supposed to protect. The intelligent religious protect their religious convictions very cleverly, to the detriment of their minds.

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Religion is to reality what endorphins are to pain.

Zombrex

Don't know

Religion is to reality what Jack Daniels is to yer ma

Whispered

Don't know

Dades wrote: »

Religion is to reality what endorphins are to pain.

AH HA so religion is a natural way to deal with the pain of reality

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Sapien wrote: »

I think religious belief is more akin to mental illness.

I think that referring to it as a mental illness is too stigmatizing, although it's not too far off reality in some senses.

I believe it's better described using the term "mind-virus", analogous to a very rapidly mutating, self-obfuscating software virus whose sole aim is to replicate itself using whatever means are available within the host substrate within which it executes.

Which understanding implies that the common characteristics of religions should indicate certain features of brain design and cognition. I don't know if anybody's looked at religion back-to-front in this manner, but I've always felt there's a rich seam of observation to mine there.

Sapien

robindch wrote: »

I think that referring to it as a mental illness is too stigmatizing...

Well if we want to be polite about it, sure. The question really is whether the term mental illness can include states that can be commuted from one mind to another. Contagious insanity, if you will. Works for me.

time130808

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

I'm an intelligent person and I 100% believe in God, I dont believe in the church or any religion, their all false and full of idol worship. I was born a catholic, but now I hate the whole vatican inc, mary and baby jesus is just a continuation of isis and osiris a pagan goddess and her child!!

Good day
time130808

Tim Robbins

Don't know

time130808 wrote: »

I'm an intelligent person and I 100% believe in God, I dont believe in the church or any religion, their all false and full of idol worship. I was born a catholic, but now I hate the whole vatican inc, mary and baby jesus is just a continuation of isis and osiris a pagan goddess and her child!!

Good day
time130808

How are you so sure every religion is false but the actual concept of God is true?

kelly1

This thread, in fact this forum, is getting very, very ugly. The level of arrogance in some atheists is astounding. There's just no end to the derision. :mad:

I believe atheists have got it very badly wrong but I don't go starting threads with statements like "you're the devils minions" or "you're all going to hell".

I believe someday you will all be offered the grace to accept God's mercy. When/if this does happen, your eternal fate will depend on whether you reject God's mercy in your pride or beg for forgiveness in humility. I hope and pray that you realize what it means to reject your Creator and especiall His mercy. God's mercy is far greater than your sins and no matter how far you fall, God is always ready and waiting to forgive you.

God bless you all.
(p.s. don't be too quick to ridicule this).

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Noel, I assume you've noted that in the poll only one person voted yes to the original question?

What you term "ugly" seem to me to be an adult discussion about religion and the human psyche.

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

I don't go starting threads with statements like "you're the devils minions" or "you're all going to hell".

Perhaps you don't, but several other posters in the christianity forum certainly have told me that I'll be going to hell to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. Some of the posters in the creationist thread regularly accuse their opposite numbers of being in the league with the demon-du-jour.

That they consider themselves both permitted and able to speak on behalf of the deity whom they think exists shows a level of preposterous arrogance which is well beyond my ability to describe in the English language.

Dave!

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

I believe atheists have got it very badly wrong but I don't go starting threads with statements like "you're the devils minions" or "you're all going to hell".

...

your eternal fate will depend on whether you reject God's mercy

...

I hope and pray that you realize what it means to reject your Creator

So, we ARE all going to hell.....

Dord

Don't know

Lack of intelligence? Possibly, but I think that depends on each person though. Some more intelligent than others but all believe in a God. I would think that they are more naïve than lacking intelligence.

kelly1

Dades wrote: »

Noel, I assume you've noted that in the poll only one person voted yes to the original question?

What you term "ugly" seem to me to be an adult discussion about religion and the human psyche.

I didn't check the poll results, I'm referring to the comments made by you, Sapien, Hivemind and Wicknight and comments made in other threads. You must admit they're very condescending, implying that theists have a lesser faculty of reason or are mentally unstable.

Nerin

Don't know

a sign of lack of intelligence being trying to get atheists (epecially on the internet) to accept god!!!
constantly saying things like god loves you, etc etc is getting a bit tedious in these discussions

ps: Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1

robindch wrote: »

Perhaps you don't, but several other posters in the christianity forum certainly have told me that I'll be going to hell to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. Some of the posters in the creationist thread regularly accuse their opposite numbers of being in the league with the demon-du-jour.

That they consider themselves both permitted and able to speak on behalf of the deity whom they think exists shows a level of preposterous arrogance which is well beyond my ability to describe in the English language.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" applies.

kelly1

DaveMcG wrote: »

So, we ARE all going to hell.....

No, you can't tell the future so you don't know when, how or if God will reach out to you in His mercy. I believe God gives us all a last chance before we die.

Dave!

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

No, you can't tell the future so you don't know when, how or if God will reach out to you in His mercy. I believe God gives us all a last chance before we die.

But we are currently on the path to hell and eternal damnation.

kelly1

nerin wrote: »

a sign of lack of intelligence being trying to get atheists (epecially on the internet) to accept god!!!
constantly saying things like god loves you, etc etc is getting a bit tedious in these discussions

It's not stupid, it comes from charity/love of neighbour.

Calibos

Don't know

kelly1 wrote: »

I didn't check the poll results, I'm referring to the comments made by you, Sapien, Hivemind and Wicknight and comments made in other threads. You must admit they're very condescending, implying that theists have a lesser faculty of reason or are mentally unstable.

Well I think its very condescending that you want to change the laws of the land to fit your religions template cause all the others religions or atheism are obviously wrong. Its very condescending that you want to ban my gay friend from being allowed to Marry. Its very condescending that...........Hypocrites the lot of ye!! Typical Religious persecution complex!!

It is nigh on impossible to have a debate with a religious person without the usual, "You are condescending, you're belittling my beliefs' When pestered to answer why I don't believe and I answer that I believe its all myths just like Thor and Odin, I get the "How dare you belittle my beliefs....are you calling me stupid?" Basically there is no way of giving reasons for your lack of belief without offending.

kelly1

DaveMcG wrote: »

But we are currently on the path to hell and eternal damnation.

That's your choice.

Nerin

Don't know

but im pretty sure that when you and all the other christian posters have said it for the umpteenth time, both atheists and non christians get it!
you think we're wrong, you're right,and pity us. or are you insulting our intelligence?

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

"Judge not lest ye be judged" applies.

*they* don't seem to think so -- they're really quite sure. Are you saying that they're wrong?

and how come you're sure that Dades is going to hell? Aren't you "judging" us, in exactly the same way as you criticize others for judging us?

kelly1

nerin wrote: »

but im pretty sure that when you and all the other christian posters have said it for the umpteenth time, both atheists and non christians get it! you think we're wrong, you're right,and pity us. or are you insulting our intelligence?

Faith in God has very little to do with intelligence. And yes I do pity you in a good way.

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

I'm referring to the comments made by you, Sapien, Hivemind and Wicknight and comments made in other threads. You must admit they're very condescending, implying that theists have a lesser faculty of reason or are mentally unstable.

Without direct reference, I can only suggest that a lot of space here is used up with theories as to why people believe in gods. Some of these theories obviously make less palatable reading to a passing believer than others. I don't think that can be helped given the diversity of views here.

I'm pretty sure you don't stand by every post in the Christianity forum.

kelly1

robindch wrote: »

*they* don't seem to think so -- they're really quite sure. Are you saying that they're wrong?

and how come you're sure that Dades is going to hell? Aren't you "judging" us, in exactly the same way as you criticize others for judging us?

If you die without asking God for forgiveness and rejecting His mercy, you will most likely go to Hell. This is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that scripture speaks about.

Nobody except God knows what the future holds, so it's wrong for anyone to judge you. Nobody can say for certain that you're going to Hell because they can't possibly know what God has in store for you or anyone else.

BTW, when did I judge Dades or anyone else here?

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

If you die without asking God for forgiveness and rejecting His mercy, you will most likely go to Hell. This is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that scripture speaks about.

So we're being sent to hell just for not believing God exists? Seems a tad harsh, if you ask me.

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

Nobody can say for certain that you're going to Hell because they can't possibly know what God has in store for you or anyone else. BTW, when did I judge Dades or anyone else here?

You clearly implied that Dades was going to hell in this post. Given that you imply that he's going to hell for sure, then say that nobody can say if somebody is going to hell, you can perhaps understand why us atheists frequently think that theists are confused and quote the bible only to support whatever position they happen to be adopting at the time.

CerebralCortex

Don't know

kelly1 wrote: »

Faith in God has very little to do with intelligence. And yes I do pity you in a good way.

You are infuriating if you are a product of a God's love, I'm glad I don't believe in him. he sounds like a child.

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Dades wrote: »

So we're being sent to hell just for not believing God exists?

Jeez, Dades, where have *you* been for the last few years? Galloping amnesia? We should be told!

kelly1

Dades wrote: »

So we're being sent to hell just for not believing God exists? Seems a tad harsh, if you ask me.

It's the stubborness and pride that gets you. You decide that you don't beleve in God and that you therefore don't need forgiveness. Nobody's forcing you not to believe in God. It's your choice/will. It's very similar to the poster who said he wouldn't kneel in a church. Everyone who goes to Hell refuses to humble him/herself before God and ask for forgiveness and mercy. I'm talking about a God who wants to see everyone saved and wants us to ask for mercy because He wants to be merciful. God cannot forgive those who despise His mercy.

Nerin

Don't know

<insert christianity conversion speak here for the billionth time>

screw this, helllooo unsubscribe button

kelly1

robindch wrote: »

You clearly implied that Dades was going to hell in this post. Given that you imply that he's going to hell for sure, then say that nobody can say if somebody is going to hell, you can perhaps understand why us atheists frequently think that theists are confused and quote the bible only to support whatever position they happen to be adopting at the time.

Is DaveMG the same person as Dades?

And are you trying to be contrary? If an atheist dies stubbornly clinging to atheism, I don't see any alternative other than Hell. The point I am making is that nobody knows the future. Miracles of conversion often happen. So there's hope for us all. Some less than others though...

robindch

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

kelly1 wrote: »

Is DaveMG the same person as Dades?

Ooops. that should of course have been davemcg, not dades in my previous post.

kelly1 wrote: »

And are you trying to be contrary? If an atheist dies stubbornly clinging to atheism, I don't see any alternative other than Hell.

No, I'm not being contrary. I'm pointing out as politely as possible that you, by telling us that we are going to hell, are showing exactly the same level of arrogance that you rightly criticize in other posters.

kelly1

robindch wrote: »

I'm pointing out as politely as possible that you, by telling us that we are going to hell, are showing exactly the same level of arrogance that you rightly criticize in other posters.

Let me say it *AGAIN*. I *DID NOT* say anyone is definitely going to Hell. That depends on the choices they make between now and their time of death. Clear?

Dades

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

robindch wrote: »

Jeez, Dades, where have *you* been for the last few years?

Not in the Christianity forum! Though I'm relieved to hear it's actually DaveMG who's headed brimstone way...

kelly1 wrote:

If an atheist dies stubbornly clinging to atheism, I don't see any alternative other than Hell.

What kind of God would send, say, Ghandi to burn for eternity?

Ah lets face it. We all know there's no such thing as hell.

Zombrex

Don't know

time130808 wrote: »

I'm an intelligent person and I 100% believe in God

Well one of those statements is false ...

Hivemind187

Don't know

kelly1 wrote: »

I didn't check the poll results, I'm referring to the comments made by you, Sapien, Hivemind and Wicknight and comments made in other threads. You must admit they're very condescending, implying that theists have a lesser faculty of reason or are mentally unstable.

I wasnt going to bring up the fact that religious visions etc can be stimulated in certain brains by the application of electromagnetic fields suggesting that a presdisposition towards religion may infact be in the gene's and therefore it is entirely plausible that it is a recessive trait.

And I wont.

I'll say this instead.

Dades ... I am outright demanding that Kelly1 be removed for threatening to boil atheistis alive in a lake of fire or roast us over burnings portestants or whatever nonsensical ramblings he believes in. It is threatening in intent if not in substance.

Zombrex

Don't know

kelly1 wrote: »

This thread, in fact this forum, is getting very, very ugly. The level of arrogance in some atheists is astounding. There's just no end to the derision. :mad:

I believe atheists have got it very badly wrong but I don't go starting threads with statements like "you're the devils minions" or "you're all going to hell".

I believe someday you will all be offered the grace to accept God's mercy. When/if this does happen, your eternal fate will depend on whether you reject God's mercy in your pride or beg for forgiveness in humility. I hope and pray that you realize what it means to reject your Creator and especiall His mercy. God's mercy is far greater than your sins and no matter how far you fall, God is always ready and waiting to forgive you.

God bless you all.
(p.s. don't be too quick to ridicule this).

Kelly1 telling us that we are arrogant then giving us a lecture on how we are all sinners, we all need forgiveness and that we will all one day beg for God's love, is a little .. well ... pot-kettle-black.

Don't assume that the self-loathing some Christians have is found in all humans. I don't wake up every day thinking there is something wrong with me, so why would I seek out forgiveness from an imaginary being?

Sapien

I renounce the Holy Spirit. Am I definitely going to Hell yet?

kelly1

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I wasnt going to bring up the fact that religious visions etc can be stimulated in certain brains by the application of electromagnetic fields suggesting that a presdisposition towards religion may infact be in the gene's and therefore it is entirely plausible that it is a recessive trait.

And I wont.

I'll say this instead.

Dades ... I am outright demanding that Kelly1 be removed for threatening to boil atheistis alive in a lake of fire or roast us over burnings portestants or whatever nonsensical ramblings he believes in. It is threatening in intent if not in substance.

Get a grip!

philologos

Yes for some, No for others impossible to generalise

Whether you will or will not go to hell is up to God to decide, not up to me. As Jesus told the Twelve, go into the nearest town and preach the word of God, if they recieve it well and good, if they do not it is best to shake off the sand from your sandals. (or muck from your boots in an Irish context I guess ) Also, Paul suggested that we should withold judgement from those outside the church and leave it to God, thus I will leave this to Him.

I hope that you all may come to the Church, so that you may see what God has to offer you sometime though, instead of flat out rejecting it.