Morbid M5 Story

Gatster

Saw this on PH, apologies if it's already been posted...bizarre story, prompts a debate?

Story

News report

kona

spoilt rich kid, if he had to work, scrounge, save, for 3 years to afford a decent car, his own insurance and tax, im sure hed be thinking twice.
hed be thinking trice if he had to fix it himself.

I know kids with altezzas and type R integras and civics, daddy paid for them, these kids are 18 going on 19 and have been in court and have points(over 4) for dangerous driving.
the lads who work for the cars treat them different as they know how much it took to get it.

i blame the parents, who give a 18 year old a 400 bhp beast of a car???
and a escalade and two other bimmers??

meathstevie

Another classic case of the power and inexperience cocktail with a few sprinkles of cockiness. The lads' age is probably fairly irrelevant, he just didn't have the skill to drive such a car at the height of it's potential.

star-pants

Goodness that's just crazy - you'd think (no offence) if he had money to spare, and wanted to get the most out of his car - he'd get racer lessons or something. Instead of thinking he could do it himself. I've not even been driving a year and if I had something of that power I would want some instruction before toying about. And I know I wouldn't have the skills to control it.
It's an awful pity he didn't heed the advice given to him on the forum.
A crusher couldn't have done a better job on that car than he did.

dmck2886

How will his parents live with themselfs, he never should have being driving a car with so much power with so little driving experience

maidhc

meathstevie wrote: »

The lads' age is probably fairly irrelevant, he just didn't have the skill to drive such a car at the height of it's potential.

Age does matter. I know I did things when I was 17 and 18 I wouldn't do now... and im only 25.

Gatster

I think his age definitely mattered, you are much more likely to have an 'attitude' at that age, and I think this was reflected in his posts on the forum he was on the night he crashed.

jimmycrackcorm

Someone remind me why exactly do BMW make M5's?

greglo23

i feel sorry for the parents of the 4 other guys who were killed in the crash.

what idiot parent would allow their 18 year old to drive a 500 hp car in the first place. they may as well have bought a grave for him too when buying the M5.

Ta me anseo

meathstevie wrote: »

The lads' age is probably fairly irrelevant, he just didn't have the skill to drive such a car at the height of it's potential.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that you think you could have managed it yourself, but I must say that's a pretty dangerous attitude to have. This young lad went off the end of runway at God knows what speed and launched himself into a tree. He didn't lose control. He simply grossly misjudged the length of tarmac ahead of him. To imply that someone with a higher level of 'skill' would have got away with it is pretty silly really. Any of us could drive pretty much anything at any speed in a reasonably straight line.

Seth Brundle

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Someone remind me why exactly do BMW make M5's?

eh? Why do we have the veyron with twice the M5's power?
There is a market for them and in fairness owners are given training before buying (new).

MarkN

Absolute madness giving any 18 year old an M5. Sad story and all but his parents have a lot to explain.

meathstevie

Sorry folks, I might have left myself open to a bit of misinterpretation here.

I'm 33, an experienced driver ( + 1 million kilometers ), haven't had any serious accidents and I do by all means like to drive at good clip.I believe in appropiate speed in appropiate conditions and that does not mean the advertised speedlimit, faster in some places and conditions, slower in others. But I know one thing absolutly for sure. I am not a rallye driver nor racing driver. I do not have the driving skills required to take a BMW M5 or whatever equivalent to the top of it's potential and expect to be on top of my game whether that's on the road or on a runway or on a racetrack. Having said that I have had instances where I could have kicked myself up the arse for loosing concentration or doing something that was with hindsight not the most intelligent option.But you learn from your experience.If you start on the other hand doing stuff you can't handle your learning experience might meet an abrupt end whether you're 18, 33, or 65 doesn't matter. I will admit that your perception of risk will vary with age but still... .

MarkN

kbannon wrote: »

eh? Why do we have the veyron with twice the M5's power?
There is a market for them and in fairness owners are given training before buying (new).

Is that with a new M5 you get training? I do remember hearing about something like 10 new M5s being registered in '06 and 3 were written off that year. I may have the numbers wrong but it was a fairly high mortality rate for the M5 whatever it was!

Seth Brundle

Apparently you get training with the M5 and M6 (and possibly also with the new M3).
However, many people got normal driver training to go on the roads...

Traumadoc

Young men will always endup dead, its in our nature, thats why they are used as cannon fodder, they believe they are immortal. Most of the deaths I see are kids in 1 liter type cars {corsas polos} that are going to fast around corners , lose control and stop suddenly (tree)or they are ejected from the vehicle.


It would be interesting to see the statistics for deaths in young male drivers and the engine size of the vehicle.

Phoole

Wot I'd do for a car like that!!!

unkel

Terrible tragedy. It happened on the air strip where John Travolta flies his airplanes. It was his dad's car, not his. Before anyone goes off on one demanding the dad should be jailed for letting the boy drive his high performance car, think about what it must be like for him to live with himself...

there were yaw marks at the end of the runway, indicating that the car turned sideways before launching over an embankment. It then sailed through the air about 200 feet before slamming into a large tree.

They believe it traveled over the 80- to 85-foot embankment at the end of the airstrip and struck the tree about 15 feet above the ground. The car broke into two pieces upon impact.

Three of victims were ejected. Two were partially ejected

unkel

Traumadoc wrote: »

lose control and stop suddenly (tree)or they are ejected from the vehicle

I didn't see your post until I posted mine just there. Just goes to show. 1l 50BHP or 5l 500BHP. Results are the same

bazz26

Generally we think we are better drivers than we actually are in reality, statistics show us that everyday, no matter what age we are or what we drive. It's not about age but rather experience. How many drivers of any given age have experience of driving a car with 500bhp under the bonnet?

An inexperienced driver behind the wheel of a 500bhp car is like having a loaded gun.

unkel

The point really is that it doesn't matter what car one drives. All cars are like loaded guns!

Plug

MarkN wrote: »

Absolute madness giving any 18 year old an M5. Sad story and all but his parents have a lot to explain.

I know a chap who was 17 when his parents bought him a brand new m3 and also he is aloud to drive the parents m5.

galwaytt

bazz26 wrote: »

Generally we think we are better drivers than we actually are in reality, statistics show us that everyday, no matter what age we are or what we drive. It's not about age but rather experience. How many drivers of any given age have experience of driving a car with 500bhp under the bonnet?

An inexperienced driver behind the wheel of a 500bhp car is like having a loaded gun.

It's fairly irrelevant what car he was driving. He made the news because it was 500hp. If he'd done the same thing in a 100hp car, the same no of people could have been killed, but far less coverage/outcry. We only have to think of those multiple accidents we've had in this country - and donegal springs to mind, unfortunately - where there were modest cars involved.

It's important that the car is not the focus of attention, otherwise, technically, we shouldn't have any cars capable of breaking the speed limit. so even a Smart Car would be outlawed...........this same ratchet situation has occurred in motorcycling, which I do a lot of, and there is no evidence of power restrictions influencing accident statistics - witness, France. Appalling safety record, yet all their machines have been capped at 100bhp for years.
Stupidity, you see, can overcome any engineering obstacle...........:rolleyes:

BostonB

In fairness he tried it out where you'd think is a good safe location. An airstrip. However he didn't think out the braking distances and he run offs. Also doing it 5 up was bad idea too. Lack of judgement rather than skill is the issue really.

pburns

Plug wrote: »

I know a chap who was 17 when his parents bought him a brand new m3 and also he is aloud to drive the parents m5.

That's an extreme case. I know of builders buying and insuring their 18yr olds on Scoobies and Evos - but an M3!?!?

Forgive me for being a snob but is this type of thing the preserve of the nouveau riche? Putting young lads in cars like that shows a drastic lack of intelligence. When I was that age even the richest kids were lucky if helped to buy an old Golf or Escort...

Blitzkrieger

Fair play to the guy for taking it to an airstrip to do his performance runs but jebus was he not prepared. At that speed you can't judge how quickly the end of the runway is coming - you have to put down markers.

Gatster

The other incredibly stupid thing about this (although he'd have been caught/crashed into a plane otherwise) is that it was night, so I'd imagine he had absolutely no idea where the end of the runway was, and at that speed in the dark, little chance of doing anything about it if he did.

MrPudding

Perfectly natural.....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origin-Species-Charles-Darwin/dp/0517123207/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201692166&sr=8-1

MrP

richie_rvf

I'm a member of the M5Borad and have been reading about this for a while now.

Terrible tragedy - the families must be devastated.

It now appears that there was alcohol involved, 3am on a runway........

I also do not think this would have happened if he were driving a 100bhp car, they have calculated that the car would have been travelling in excess of 170mph, the car travelled over 200 feet in the air before hitting a tree 15 feet off the ground.

They never stood a chance.

RIP

kmick

Poor old Josh - perhaps he should be given a Darwin award.

OTK

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111454

Blazer

The muppet was doing 170mph on a 1.5 mph runway and lost control over the embankment at the end. The car flew 200 feet through the air and hit a tree and went on fire.
Basically it was his dad's car but that's beside the point.
The fact was that he thought he had the skill to drive at 170mph and control the car..fvckin idiot...
I just pity the other guys killed..idiots like this always get someone else killed as well.

read the below for a very good idea of how long it took him to get to 170mph and how much space he needed to stop
basically it took him over a 1 mile to get to 170mph and since the runway was only 1.5 miles long he was already running out of space to stop..
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111545&page=14

JohnCleary

The question is... why teh fcuk do you have trees at the end of a runway?

rabbitinlights

At the end of the runway was a steep drop/embankment and the tree's were over 150ft away at the bottom of the embankment.

Waste of a good car.

Blitzkrieger

I always thought the point was to A)Stop or B)Take off before reaching the end of a runway regardless of what's at the end of it.

Alkers

galwaytt wrote: »

It's fairly irrelevant what car he was driving. He made the news because it was 500hp. If he'd done the same thing in a 100hp car, the same no of people could have been killed, but far less coverage/outcry. We only have to think of those multiple accidents we've had in this country - and donegal springs to mind, unfortunately - where there were modest cars involved.

It's important that the car is not the focus of attention, otherwise, technically, we shouldn't have any cars capable of breaking the speed limit. so even a Smart Car would be outlawed...........this same ratchet situation has occurred in motorcycling, which I do a lot of, and there is no evidence of power restrictions influencing accident statistics - witness, France. Appalling safety record, yet all their machines have been capped at 100bhp for years.
Stupidity, you see, can overcome any engineering obstacle...........:rolleyes:

You'd be hard pressed getting a 100HP car with 5 people in it to travel 200feet airborne...

MrPudding

Simona1986 wrote: »

You'd be hard pressed getting a 100HP car with 5 people in it to travel 200feet airborne...

A tard like that would always find a way to kill himself, 500bhp just made it easier, faster and more spectacular.

MrP

smemon

Too much top gear i reckon for this guy.

I don't believe power is the problem here, nor experience. i think it all comes down to common sense as all driving does.

Simple math would probably have saved this guy (if indeed this was an accident).

He probably thought a runway is a runway and will have more than enough tar to reach top speed and back. Doubt he did the math and his thought was to hit top speed - not even thinking about if he'd have time to stop or if he'd run out of road.

It's just like the clowns who will START overtaking when there are big 'road narrows in 200m' signs ahead, and they end up swerving/braking hard/causing general danger. All down to lack of cop on and awareness, it's not rocket science and you don't need extra tuition to drive a bigger/better car. Same basic principles apply.

unkel

smemon wrote: »

I don't believe power is the problem here, nor experience. i think it all comes down to common sense as all driving does

Well said.

Traumadoc

most of the bad crashes I have treated is young guys pushing small cars to fast for the roads, ie doing 100 kmph on a country lane in a 1 liter polo and someone pulls out from a side road or they cannot take the corner.

In other countries young people drive far more powerful cars than here but have a better safety record eg Australia.

Plug

pburns wrote: »

That's an extreme case. I know of builders buying and insuring their 18yr olds on Scoobies and Evos - but an M3!?!?

Thats what I thought until I saw him flying around in it. The mother ad father own an m5(white) and a big range rover supercharged thing.
He has a bebo profile somewhere with the car. If I find it i'll show you.

Matt Simis

smemon wrote: »

I don't believe power is the problem here, nor experience. i think it all comes down to common sense as all driving does.

WTF is the angle some people are going for here?

Power - a normal (150bhp in the US) road car simply wouldnt have reached those speeds so quickly with that many occupants. Its unlikely he would have felt the need to fully avail of a family saloons top performance in the same manner as a performance car . Power and Performance were clearly the motivation behind the speeding and the car facilitated this. So did his parents.

Experience - Would have shown him the required distance to accelerate and the effect each 10mph has on stopping distance. A few minor and more average "everyday driving" scares would have prompted him to evaluate what he was doing and reduced the need to impress (strangers on forums, friends etc) to the degree he took it.

Parents - Yes they are sad (presumably) their son is dead, but they handed him the keys to the car he died in when he clearly had an inappropriate attitude and lack of experience. Being sad "for the rest of their lives" is a joke of a response to their complete negligence to their child and the effect it had on the other families involved.


Im young, had/have big cars, so Im biased against neither. But car power and experience are paramount.

MarkN

You need a lot more than common sense when you are driving a car with 500bhp at your right foot. An M5 is not a car for any 18 year old unless they are an F1 driver or on the way to being one - end of.

Mr. Presentable

Curiosity, but, how long would they have been airborne? Enough to think about what was happening?

doubledown

Good God.......that's awful.

The poor car!

meathstevie

Little side remark about loaded guns : there's nothing dangerous about a gun loaded or empty either. Same as with a car, the user makes it safe or dangerous.

LuckyStar

Hi,
I am just wondering, how do cars such as an M5 feel like to drive? As in, how is driving, say, a 2.0L car different to a 1L? Is it that the bigger the engine, the faster the car accelerates? My car is 1.2L.

meathstevie

Luckystar. In general that would be the gist of the story, the more powerfull/bigger the engine the faster the car but that rule doesn't always apply. Some cars are built for comfort and could be a 3000cc while a 1.8 performance car leaves the 3 litre standing but provides far less comfort. Some 1.6's are rather nippy and fun to drive while still being very comfortable while some other 2 litres are sluggish pigs to drive.

Take for example the average American bouncy castle on wheels. Big 3000cc V6 under the bonnet and a European 1.8 turbo makes it look like a wheezing terminal ox that handles like a crooked shopping trolley. ( Pardon me the little exageration )

Victor_M

meathstevie wrote: »

Luckystar. In general that would be the gist of the story, the more powerfull/bigger the engine the faster the car but that rule doesn't always apply. Some cars are built for comfort and could be a 3000cc while a 1.8 performance car leaves the 3 litre standing but provides far less comfort. Some 1.6's are rather nippy and fun to drive while still being very comfortable while some other 2 litres are sluggish pigs to drive.

Take for example the average American bouncy castle on wheels. Big 3000cc V6 under the bonnet and a European 1.8 turbo makes it look like a wheezing terminal ox that handles like a crooked shopping trolley. ( Pardon me the little exageration )

LOL Meathie Stevie you are not exaggerating at all, I'm in california at the moment and have been narrowly avoiding death for the last month in a V6 Pontic Grand Prix, My mothers Starlet is quicker and handles infinitely better. No traction control or ABS on a car with a V6, I mean WTF, it's irresponsible, second only to the Opel Vectra it's the worst car I've ever driven.

Luckystar, I thought/think you are/were taking the Mick with that question.

Holsten

doubledown wrote: »

Good God.......that's awful.

The poor car!

Aye, what a waste of a M5....

Seth Brundle

LuckyStar wrote: »

Hi,
I am just wondering, how do cars such as an M5 feel like to drive? As in, how is driving, say, a 2.0L car different to a 1L? Is it that the bigger the engine, the faster the car accelerates? My car is 1.2L.

A 2L car when compared to a 1.1L should has more reserve power which enables quicker acceleration.
The likes of the current M5 is a beast and would require advanced driving skills in order to be able to use it. It has plenty of driver aids and the power can be reduced using the iDrive but in the right hands they are fun to drive.