Using 2 amps at the same time

Spicy Lauren

An other geeky question from an un-educated lady...

I want to start using 2 amps at the same time, with the one guitar.
I'd like to be able to control different pedals for the 2 different amps also.

How do I do that? Do I need a guitar port of some sort to plug the guitar in?

The more info the better
thanks

Lauren

feylya

http://www.thomann.de/ie/morley_aby.htm

One of these.

One input for guitar + effects
2 outputs for effects + amp.

Spicy Lauren

Is that all??

bombidol

It works but its messy and sound engineers will hate you. And theres really no need for it unless you are in some sort of experimental band, and even then.

Good guitar + good amp cannot be beaten or improved upon.

feylya

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Is that all??

That is all.

As bombidol said, it is a headache for everyone involved with the gig for minimal results.

Spicy Lauren

Deadly! I'm on for the challenge, we need a fuller sound.
Thanks lads
x

feylya

More amps does not mean fuller sound. Revisit your EQ setup. Much easier and less stuff to carry and mix.

ogy

before resorting to that maybe try 2 mics on the one amp. if your amp has 2 speakers one on each speaker, or even if it doesn't just two at different points on the one speaker can be very effective. pan one to 10 o clock and the other to 2 o clock, fills out the sound nicely.

Savman

Seriously Lauren I wouldn't recommend it but it'll do no harm to try it out in rehearsal or whatever. Damn right Engineers will hate you, some may not even mic up the 2nd amp, especially if in a small venue and mic'ing the same source twice would be detrimental to the overall mix.

Voodu Child

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with a two-amp setup unless you were really set on it, or had a real strong reason for it.

Aside from the reasons mentioned, the more gear you start running your guitar signal through, the more chance you have of encountering ground-loop problems (hum or noise basically) and they can be a real headache to troubleshoot.

And, it's more gear to lug around, more to go wrong, more tweaking to get a good sound, just more hassle than it's worth tbh.

Spicy Lauren

Ogy, I like your idea...

ogy

glad i helped, its the same principle as doubletracking in a recording, tiny phase differences thicken up the sound and can create more of a stereo spread. usually stereo is to be avoided with live work but in a case like this worst case scenario is somebody only hears one of the mics, which is no big deal!

Johnny Storm

I don't really know what I'm talking about here but sure that never stopped me in the past...

Lauren doesn't say what kind of pedals she's using but AFAIK if she has a pedal with a stereo output such as a chorus or delay pedal then she could run both of the outputs into two different amps and get a huge sound. Or if she has a stereo amp she could run them into the two sides of the amp and then into 2 halves of her cab. Yes/no?

Spicy Lauren

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I don't really know what I'm talking about here but sure that never stopped me in the past...

Lauren doesn't say what kind of pedals she's using but AFAIK if she has a pedal with a stereo output such as a chorus or delay pedal then she could run both of the outputs into two different amps and get a huge sound. Or if she has a stereo amp she could run them into the two sides of the amp and then into 2 halves of her cab. Yes/no?

I don't have a stereo amp.
And I wouldn't want to have the 2 amps to have the same effects (delay for example) used always at the same time

Doctor J

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

we need a fuller sound

It might be worth working on the bass tone then, rather than doubling the guitar. Does the arse drop out of your sound when the guitar isn't playing or if you're doing non-chordal stuff?

Eoin Madsen

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

we need a fuller sound.

An better solution might be (one) fuller sounding amp.

But you should probably take a close look at your pedal setup. One cheap pedal between your guitar and your amp is all it takes to suck the life out of your tone. Effects are not tone, they're just effects - see if you can get your sound without the pedals in between before you start replacing amps or attempting elaborate set ups. If you're able to, then you can look at changing the effects signal path, or replacing the offending pedals.

Bear in mind that the pace of live gigs on a low budget generally makes it impossible for a sound engineer to accomodate what he or she will reasonably assess as a needlessly complicated guitar rig. Live sound is a series of compromises already, so extra amps or requests for dual micing are the first things to go the instant there's a problem.

Dord

Doctor J wrote: »

It might be worth working on the bass tone then, rather than doubling the guitar. Does the arse drop out of your sound when the guitar isn't playing or if you're doing non-chordal stuff?

I agree, she could just end up with a muddy mess that overpowers the bass in her attempt to fill out the sound. Personally I'd look at the bass sound first.

Spicy Lauren

You know, my amp is a great amp.
And the pedals I use are very good quality pedals. All them.
We are 3 in the band. Guitar-bass-drums.
The bass sound isnt the great in all fairness. We're currently working on sorting it out.

It's just that sometimes, guitarwise, i'd like to get a fuller sound.
My amp has a lovely warm tone and I always use the clean channel only (+ overdrive pedals).
Sometimes I'd like to have a pure dirty sound though. Marshall type dirty.
I dunno. I think I'm just need to twiddle around.

We don't mind bringing loads of gear with us.
Besides, we'd decided to use our own soundman at every gig and we've also decided we wouldn't play in venues that do not have a proper (as in 'quality')sound system/PA.

It might be a nightmare for our soundman but I don't really care cos it's his job and we will pay him for doing it. And we will take as much time as needed to soundcheck properly.

Still against it?

Karl Hungus

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

The bass sound isnt the great in all fairness. We're currently working on sorting it out.

Get that sorted first. Then worry about your own sound.

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

It's just that sometimes, guitarwise, i'd like to get a fuller sound.
My amp has a lovely warm tone and I always use the clean channel only (+ overdrive pedals).
Sometimes I'd like to have a pure dirty sound though. Marshall type dirty.
I dunno. I think I'm just need to twiddle around.

Maybe you should look into a better 2 channel amp so? A lot of amps today have exceptionally good cleans as well as distortion, it's not a compromise between one or the other like it used to be.

Spicy Lauren

What do you mean by '2 channel amp'? (sorry)

Is this guy a 2 channel amp?
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2232100000

feylya

I just gotta say, you have a horrible attitude when replying to some of these suggstions Lauren. People here are trying to help, no point in getting defensive and borderline aggressive.

If you want to double track your guitars, you could use a delay pedal with a stereo out with a slight delay (5ms or so) then put that into the ABY pedal and put that into your single amp. Simple way.

Spicy Lauren

feylya wrote: »

I just gotta say, you have a horrible attitude when replying to some of these suggstions Lauren. People here are trying to help, no point in getting defensive and borderline aggresive.

WHAT??!

Savman

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

WHAT??!

Similar to your "in ear monitors" thread.....

Karl Hungus

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

What do you mean by '2 channel amp'? (sorry)

Is this guy a 2 channel amp?
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2232100000

I mean, 2 channels, as in 2 different sounds that you can switch between.

The above amp is indeed a 2 channel amp, but if that's the amp you're using, then the overdrive channel mustn't be up to much if you're using an overdrive pedal. You said you want a bigger Marshall kinda sound, then you might want to look at an amp that can do that, as well as the clean sound, rather than using 2 seperate amps.

Dord

Have to say I agree with Fey and Savman here, you seem to have a pretty bad attitude.

Spicy Lauren

Joe Robot wrote: »

Have to say I agree with Fey and Savman here, you seem to have a pretty bad attitude.

Okay. Well it wasnt meant in any way if I did or do come across as cocky or whatever. Maybe that's just the way I am. I dunno...
I'm here because I need advice on stuff that I havent a clue about and all I want from you guys is an opinion / other ideas.

feylya

Now, I don't want this to turn into a Lauren bashing thread lads. I would just like Lauren to understand that we are trying to help her and that we're not the enemy.

Bottom line here is you come here for help, we try to give you help but we can only help you if you tell us what we need to know. Example - having suggested that perhaps your amp isn't right for your sound, telling us what amp you have would let us help you better instead of "My amp is a great amp".

Karl Hungus

Hang on a mo lads. I'm not sure English is Lauren's first language (I don't mean that in a bad way at all, and sorry if I'm wrong here), so perhaps there's some miscommunication going on, and a little more patience could be a better approach?

Spicy Lauren

feylya wrote: »

Bottom line here is you come here for help, we try to give you help but we can only help you if you tell us what we need to know. Example - having suggested that perhaps your amp isn't right for your sound, telling us what amp you have would let us help you better instead of "My amp is a great amp".

Alright then, here we go!
AMP: Fender Blues Deluxe Re-issue although I'm thinking of selling it to get a Fender Blues Deville Hot Rod Instead.
PEDALS: DD6 (delay), Blues Driver, and Fender Blender.

I only use the clean channel on my amp cos It sounds warm and lovely but I used a marshall cab recently and it sounded well dirty and i feel like it would be a good thing to sound like that at times.

feylya

See, wasn't that easy

From the sounds of what you're playing, you do need an angrier sounding amp like the Hot Rod. Don't forget to look at amps other than Fender though if you want a dirtier sound.

And kudos Hungus, you caught me out on the language thing.

Savman

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

You know, my amp is a great amp.
And the pedals I use are very good quality pedals. All them.

Maybe the problem's in your fingers?

Sometimes I'd like to have a pure dirty sound though. Marshall type dirty.

Then sell your "great amp" and buy a Marshall!

Besides, we'd decided to use our own soundman at every gig and we've also decided we wouldn't play in venues that do not have a proper (as in 'quality')sound system/PA.

Nice thought but 90% of venues in Ireland will not have a "proper" PA system. Incidentally, seeing as you have set the bar so high, exactly what spec PA would meet your minimum standard?

It might be a nightmare for our soundman but I don't really care cos it's his job and we will pay him for doing it.

That's kinda the thing I was referring to. Saying he's your "Sound" person but at the same time saying you "don't really care" is a contradiction in itself. You're basically saying you don't care about your own sound, which would be at odds with this whole thread. If your soundman is having a 'mare, you can bet your ass you and your band will too.

Spicy Lauren

Savman wrote: »

Maybe the problem's in your fingers? .

Cheeky

Savman wrote: »

Then sell your "great amp" and buy a Marshall!

I said 'sometimes'. That's why I was thinking of using 2 amps, smarty pants!

Savman wrote: »

Nice thought but 90% of venues in Ireland will not have a "proper" PA system. Incidentally, seeing as you have set the bar so high, exactly what spec PA would meet your minimum standard?

I don't know much about PA tbh... Not sh*tty ones for a start I guess. The likes of Whelans / Cyprus Avenue type PA. I aint playing the likes of Dorans or worse anymore, we've done enough of it.

Savman wrote: »

That's kinda the thing I was referring to. Saying he's your "Sound" person but at the same time saying you "don't really care" is a contradiction in itself. You're basically saying you don't care about your own sound, which would be at odds with this whole thread. If your soundman is having a 'mare, you can bet your ass you and your band will too

True, true

Karl Hungus

Something you might want to check out, Lauren, is a VHT combo. Something like the Fifty-Twelve would be great.

VHT do a really good souped up Marshall kinda sound, and they're excellent amps indeed, with superb cleans as well, so you can go from a great warm clean tone to a fantastic overdrive at the press of a button. The drive channel would be a huge step up from using a pedal on the Blues Deluxe, and be much thicker and fuller sounding.

Spicy Lauren

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Something you might want to check out, Lauren, is a VHT combo. Something like the Fifty-Twelve would be great.

VHT do a really good souped up Marshall kinda sound, and they're excellent amps indeed, with superb cleans as well, so you can go from a great warm clean tone to a fantastic overdrive at the press of a button. The drive channel would be a huge step up from using a pedal on the Blues Deluxe, and be much thicker and fuller sounding.

Hmm ok. I shall check it out.

feylya

Perhaps my old favourite - Peavey Classic 50

bombidol

Lauren , without coming across as a bellend here. I think you might be shooting above your target here. You've got all these threads about technology you havent a clue about, and to be honest if you dont know what it does you probably dont need it. Looking at your myspace it doesnt look like you play enough gigs or gigs in big enough venues to warrant most of the stuff you are looking into.
Listening to your track online, its obvious you arent going to need face melting distortion and you most likely arent going to get a great distortion off pedals. Does your amp have an overdrive channel? If so, use that over a pedal it will always sound better.
It looks like your main electric is a strat, its pretty hard to get a heavy as hell sound from a single coil pick up, they are designed to have a thin sound that cuts through. If you are looking to beef up the sound a little, try a guitar with humbuckers.

Again like I said, theres no subsitute for a great guitar and a great amp. Most other stuff is specialist or for someone who knows exactly the tone and sound they need and the gear they need to get it.

Karl Hungus

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Hmm ok. I shall check it out.

Here's a great video that shows you how versatile the VHT amps are. No idea what the guy's saying, but he gets some great sounds from it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYdM_z-yUY

feylya

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Here's a great video that shows you how versatile the VHT amps are. No idea what the guy's saying, but he gets some great sounds from it:

Don't think that'll be a problem for Spicy

Karl Hungus

bombidol wrote: »

Again like I said, theres no subsitute for a great guitar and a great amp.

Absolutely agree with this.

telecaster

For what it's worth folks, I used to use twin amps in rehearsal. There are stereo outs on my BossGT6 and I sent the left and right to separate amps. It was interesting for stereo delays, pans, reverb etc.

It's worth trying out in rehearsal. It WOULD indeed be a pain to set up for live purposes unless your band has the profile to warrant it (The Edge wont be questioned about why he wants a such and such a set up for example, but you'd just be making life difficult for the engineers in Eamon Dorans or whereever for little benefit.)

There's very little right and wrong about how you do things in music, just try it out and see what works for you. I imagine if the Davies bros had come on to boards.ie with an idea for slashing their amp cones to get a distortion sound they would have been blasted

Savman

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

I don't know much about PA tbh...

This is kinda what I'm getting at, please do not blame the PA just because you do not want to play in a particular venue. The rigs in Dorans, Radio City etc are all top quality, if they sound like junk it's probably because whomever is at the console is having issues or else the gear is wrecked from such heavy useage

My only point is that you cannot really use "****ty PA" as a barometer of gigs you may or may not do, because as much as you argue your band is better than a given PA, I could just as easily say that a given PA is better than your band. If you don't know the difference between your EV's and your Behringers, I don't think you can really pass comment because it'll just make ye look silly.

Now, if you were to say "we ain't playing Doran's because it's just a kip" well then, I wouldn't be in disagreement.;)

Savman

bombidol wrote: »

Lauren , without coming across as a bellend here. I think you might be shooting above your target here. You've got all these threads about technology you havent a clue about, and to be honest if you dont know what it does you probably dont need it. Looking at your myspace it doesnt look like you play enough gigs or gigs in big enough venues to warrant most of the stuff you are looking into.

Would have to agree here.

Spicy Lauren

feylya wrote: »

Don't think that'll be a problem for Spicy

It is actually Feylya... I've no sound card

Bombidol - We're taking a break from gigging cos we need to work on new material and record so no, no gigs at the moment. We've played the likes of the Roisin Dubh, Cyprus Avenue, Whelans, Crawdaddy, Spirit Store and it's the standard of gigs we play.
As for the track online, it was recorded aaaages ago (over 2 years) and it doesnt represent what I do anymore. I used a different guitar at the time (it's a Blues guitar with humbuckers on the track if I remember well, now I use a Jags-tang) and most importantly I have a different rhythm section, which is now much heavier.
My amp has an overdrive channel but I rarely used it. I will fish out that foot switch and give it a go.

Spicy Lauren

(I'm learning so much today lads, it's great)

feylya

See what happens when you help people help you?

Next time you're out in rehearsals, work on your eq. You will hate the sound of the guitar on it's own (probably) and the bassist won't be happy with you telling him to change his sound but it's worth. I worked on my bassist's EQ at the last rehearsal and the complete change in the overall sound was fantastic. The bass now kicks in properly and makes your chest rattle, just like it should

Eoin Madsen

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Still against it?

Yeah. When you describe the problem, splitting your guitar signal into two amps is still way down on my list of fixes. If you can't get a good tone out of one amp, I don't see why you'd get one out of two!

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Alright then, here we go!
AMP: Fender Blues Deluxe Re-issue although I'm thinking of selling it to get a Fender Blues Deville Hot Rod Instead.
PEDALS: DD6 (delay), Blues Driver, and Fender Blender.

I only use the clean channel on my amp cos It sounds warm and lovely but I used a marshall cab recently and it sounded well dirty and i feel like it would be a good thing to sound like that at times.

It's all a matter of persepective, I guess. I'd consider that to be pretty intermediate gear tbh. The Deluxe and Deville are Fender's middle-of-the-range amps. They're grand, but I've played much more versatile amps. And two middling amps will not equal one great one. What valves did you put in the Deluxe?

Boss pedals affect the tone of your guitar even when they're off. I've A/B-ed the damn tuner and I didn't need to listen back on studio monitors to hear the difference. But again, it's all a matter of perspective. If you're happy with your tone, don't worry about it. If you're not, well...

And Bombidol made a pretty good point about guitar pickups which is probably the first thing you should look at.

Spicy Lauren

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

What valves did you put in the Deluxe?.

Still the original ones. I havent felt like it was time to change them yet. Or should I? (how?)

Voodu Child

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

Still the original ones. I havent felt like it was time to change them yet. Or should I? (how?)

Valves are the 'heart' of an amps sound, so good valves can sound much better/different than cheaper ones. Often the valves that the manufacturer puts in an amp are pretty cheap to save costs. So even if there's nothing wrong with them, sometimes you can get a big improvement in tone by taking the original ones out and putting better ones in.

I wouldn't say you definitely should change them, but it's something to keep in mind. If you're thinking about changing your amp in the near future, I wouldn't bother spending any money on the current one though.

bombidol

Spicy Lauren wrote: »

It is actually Feylya... I've no sound card

Bombidol - We're taking a break from gigging cos we need to work on new material and record so no, no gigs at the moment. We've played the likes of the Roisin Dubh, Cyprus Avenue, Whelans, Crawdaddy, Spirit Store and it's the standard of gigs we play.
As for the track online, it was recorded aaaages ago (over 2 years) and it doesnt represent what I do anymore. I used a different guitar at the time (it's a Blues guitar with humbuckers on the track if I remember well, now I use a Jags-tang) and most importantly I have a different rhythm section, which is now much heavier.
My amp has an overdrive channel but I rarely used it. I will fish out that foot switch and give it a go.

Thats fair enough but again without sounding like a dope, you wont improve or get to know your gear unless you use it in every size and shape of venue. Chances are you could mic up a 2 watt practice amp in the music centre and they could dick with it until it was usable. The "standard of venue" you play wont do anything for you except lull you into a false sense of security. I've played gigs all over the world in everything from a thousand person capacity to someones basement in new york. Each and every time the gears gotta be tweaked and if you dont know what way to tweak it or guess how your equipment is going to react yer up sh1tcreek.

Pick one thing at a time and learn as much about it as possible, start with wikipedia and read some articles there for a broad insight then come somewhere here with some kind of definite question. Otherwise you will get a hundred different people telling you a hundred different things.

As for distortion, I'm guessing you havent started doing Exodus covers and you mention sonic youth somewhere on your site so I'm guessing you are going for that whole indy overdrive sound. Fender is a good place to start there and if your amp has tubes in there then its going to sound a million times better than a pedal. Start off with every knob at 12 on your overdrive channel and tweak from there. I would guess though that you dont want your gain knob to be past 1 o clock though if you want to keep some kind of definition in the noise.

Spicy Lauren

bombidol wrote: »

Start off with every knob at 12 on your overdrive channel and tweak from there.

Jesus yer maaad!! The amp I have is SO LOUD at 1 already!!

feylya

I think he means 12 o'clock ie straight up and that doesn't include the volume...

12 o'clock means the eq should be flat