Serious assault?

LegacyUser

Was at a party with a “friend” of a friend, pretty drunk and little high.
This “friend” who came with me to the party propositioned me whilst we were sitting on the couch. I responded with a very definite no and sat in a different chair. He’s going out with a girl for years and has kids with her.
A while later I went upstairs to crash out fully clothed in my friends bed, whose house we were in. An hour later I wake up to my underwear and tights around my knees and the “friend” behind me in the bed. I scream blue murder because I got such a fright and run downstairs. More screaming etc until he’s made leave and I eventually calm down.
It transpires I was gone to bed about an hour before this guy left to “go to the bathroom” and that about 10-15 mins passed before I came running screaming down the stairs.

I would never have thought this guy would have done anything like this. I’ve known him a few years and there’s never once in this time even been so much as a flirt between us.
If it was some randomer I’d report the bastard to the police straight away but I know this guy and his girlfriend and they have kids and also we were all hammered and a bit out of it together. That said though, not so much so that I don’t remember my actions and I wouldn’t have thought he was that inebriated or wasted before I went to bed either, not in fairness that that is any excuse for such behaviour.

While nothing actually happened happened and as far as I can remember in my panic to get out of the room his clothes were on, I still feel really violated by this. Should I just avoid him like the plague and put it down as a bad experience or should I do something more about it. I did speak to the friend we have in common who was really nice about the whole thing and said he’d never heard of this kind of behaviour from the guy in question before but that he’d stand by me whatever my decision.

My heads is completely upside down with this and I’ve been just crying and boiling up inside since and feel really out of sorts. Am I overreacting or is this a serious assault and if so what do I do?

Lollipops23

wow,you poor thing, i can totally see why you'd feel violated by what happened. there is no excuse for his behaviour,drunk or stoned or whatever!!imagine if you hadn't woken up so quick,how fair would it have gone??

With regards to what to do next.....personally i would report him to the guards. Dunno if it's too late or what,but it's probably what i would have done. However, if you think this is going to cause a world a hassle for you(not him) then maybe not.Also, are you going to have to see this guy a lot?

But bottom line, you did nothing wrong and this guy is a perve.Don't care if he never acted like this before, he acted like it NOW and that's what matters.

lalabelle

Tell the police. It's an open and shut case, given that there are witnesses.

You're not doing it for you, but to protect the next unsuspecting girl he does it to.

evry1sm8

lalabelle wrote: »

Tell the police. It's an open and shut case, given that there are witnesses.

You're not doing it for you, but to protect the next unsuspecting girl he does it to.

Totally agree.

dudara

Take a step back a minute people. All that the witnesses saw was this girl running down the stairs crying.

I'm not knocking you OP, I'm just wondering if there is a case to be had here. Plus, as you stated, this man has kids and does not have a reputation for this kind of behaviour (by your own admittance).

Would you feel comfortable approaching him and asking him if he recollects the events of that night?

Lollipops23

her underwear didn't fall down by itself.....indecent assault anyone??

listermint

OP " Very Drunk and a little high" , You can do all sorts when your like that. Even half undress your clothes before giving up and falling asleep. So conclusions can not be made without evidence.

witnessmenow

what dudara is saying is that there is no proof of it happening, I'd well believe it did, but not up to me to decide. I think i would bring it to the guards too though... no excuse for that kind of carry on

The Real B-man

dudara wrote: »

Take a step back a minute people. All that the witnesses saw was this girl running down the stairs crying.

I'm not knocking you OP, I'm just wondering if there is a case to be had here. Plus, as you stated, this man has kids and does not have a reputation for this kind of behaviour (by your own admittance).

Would you feel comfortable approaching him and asking him if he recollects the events of that night?

+1

angeldelight

Just because your friend hadn't heard of him behaving like that before doesn't mean he hasn't, or that he won't in the future. I think speaking to the Gardai, even if not formally pressing charges could help to protect someone in the future from even the possibility of it happening again.

Irishcrx

I'm sorry to hear that, it's an awful thing to happen unfortunatly to be honest the post above is right all they saw was you running down the stairs, since he didn't sexualy assault you, it could go down as harrasement but 9/10 it'll be your word against his and he'll get away with. Harsh but that's the country we live in chicken.

humanji

But then again, what would of happened if you hadn't of woken up at that point? Personally, I'd of called the cops. Who cares about his kids or his girlfriend? He obviously didn't when he did that to you.

If you're against calling the cops then just have nothing to do with him, and avoid him where ever you can. There's little else you can do.

LegacyUser

listermint wrote: »

OP " Very Drunk and a little high" , You can do all sorts when your like that. Even half undress your clothes before giving up and falling asleep. So conclusions can not be made without evidence.

Trust me. My clothes were fully on and in their right place when I fell asleep. As I said I was drunk and a little high but I'm well able to look after myself on that front and am not prone to black outs no matter how much of a bender I've been on.
Whatever about rape surely removing someone's undergarments constitutes sexual assault?
All I can say is I do feel sexually violated and really upset and angry!
As for talking to him I really don't ever want to see sight of him again!!

Canis Lupus

Yes so Mr Garda I was at this party and I was pretty drunk and just between you and me I was high as well........

Not really the best start in all fairness....... I'd err on the side of not telling the garda and staying well clear of the fella in future.

It's a tough one to be honest simply cos on paper it looks damning but after a night of drink and drugs who's to say if it was as bad as you imagine.

In saying that I reckon he did it but proving that is gonna be near impossible and he can make up any story he likes. Married man with kids..... Well Mrs Op, your daughter was drunk and taking drugs all night, I went in to check she was alright and she freaked out etc etc.

listermint

whatthebleep wrote: »

Trust me. My clothes were fully on and in their right place when I fell asleep. As I said I was drunk and a little high but I'm well able to look after myself on that front and am not prone to black outs no matter how much of a bender I've been on.
Whatever about rape surely removing someone's undergarments constitutes sexual assault?
All I can say is I do feel sexually violated and really upset and angry!
As for talking to him I really don't ever want to see sight of him again!!

Well if thats the case, pursue it down the guards route, This lad obviously needs a wake up call that this is not acceptable. He might take it further with someone in the future.

kmick

Probably a bit late now - its your word against his. Do you have a brother or a boyfriend who could have a 'word' with him. He WILL probably do it again and the next time he could be successful. Make sure you tell everyone who will listen as well. This guy deserves to be shunned.

dudara

@ kmick and any other posters - please do not advocate the use of violence in this forum.

dudara

Dragan

lalabelle wrote: »

Tell the police. It's an open and shut case, given that there are witnesses.

You're not doing it for you, but to protect the next unsuspecting girl he does it to.

No its not. Nobody was in the room with them.

Hell, we don't even have a reason to believe her!

OP - this is not the kind of person you need to have in your life.

And the whole "we we're all out of thing" is why most scumbags get away with such scumbag behaviour...... tell his bird, she needs to know.

Overheal

Look, even if you don't want to press charges on this friend of yours, its still a good idea to make an official statement: if later in life he does commit some serious crime it will reflect on the case then and there - even if nothing comes of the current situation.

LegacyUser

I would definitely threaten the guards to him at least, if anything just to make sure he doesn't try this sh1t again.

It's totally out of order, have no doubts about that.

LegacyUser

what's the procedure if I do make a statement? Is he approached by guards..
O God I don't know what to do. Would've considered this guy to be dead on before this. My best friend reckons it's a defo for the guards but I'd hate to ruin someone over a once off mistake, albeit a pretty huge one to my mind, if it's only once off. Reading through the responses in this thread to the fact I was drunk or whatever is putting me right off going further with this too. Bit short skirt syndrome though if you ask me but if that's the way people think then i understand completely why girls don't report full on rapes sometimes!

spinandscribble

make a statement. avoid him like the plague and send the message to him that you've made a statement so that he cant pull this trick on another girl but since you have no evidence it wont be going to court. he cant feel he got away with it.

what was he doing in the bed even if her underwear magically fell off?

gcgirl

yeh i'd go with overheal with this make a complant to the guards, it wil be not nice for him if the guards end up at his door esp if the girlfriend lives with him! He is the perv here ! Guys like that don't have once off moments it could move on to something bit more serious next time around!

Miss Fluff

What a nightmare OP.

Its not as cut and dry as "making a complaint" to the Guards. It's then a State matter as to whether they charge him or not as it constitutes sexual assault. Depends if you are willing to testify in Court. And unfortunately, like someone pointed out, you won't come out of it smelling of roses if you were pissed and high.

Bottle_of_Smoke

If a little bit more time had passed you could have been woken up by something that would have been a lot more difficult to deal with.

Of course he won't have a reputation like this if every other girl has also kept quiet.

When did it happen? Think you should report it. Just say you've been too upset to report it until now.

Dave!

Consult a solicitor and ask them if they think that there's any case to be had, bearing in mind that you were twisted and stoned.

If there is, go for it, if there's not, then perhaps spare a thought for the man's family and children. If you start firing around accusations with no evidence, you have as good as ruined this person's life. Nobody wants to be aquainted with a rapist, and that's what he will appear as.

Give this some serious thought, because once you make that accusation, his life will be completely messed up. If he did anything, and there's actual proof of that, then he obviously deserves the punishment, but if he didn't, then he does NOT deserve the reputation that he will inevitably recieve, as a rapist.

impr0v

whatthebleep wrote: »

Whatever about rape surely removing someone's undergarments constitutes sexual assault

Yes it does. Assault is (broadly, and without quoting the relevant legislative provisions to you) the application of force, of any kind, without consent. Sexual assault is an assault accompanied by circumstances of indecency, which are obviously present here.

This is a tough decision OP, as you obviously know, and I'm not sure how to advise you.

A successful conviction for this matter will have very serious implications on this person's life. Presuming he has no criminal record, and given the fact that it seems the assault ended at the removal of clothing, he's unlikely to get a custodial sentence. However, the stigma attached to such a crime will have serious implications for his family life, employment prospects, etc.

Having said that, it would be entirely his fault and, taking your version of events to be true and accurate, he would only have himself to blame for such an outcome. He did sexually assault you, and it would seem that he attempted to seriously sexually assault or perhaps rape you. It was a gross invasion of privacy and a low act. Further, while you say that you don't believe he's ever done anything like this before but, the fact is that if he has, you're highly unlikely to know about it and, as others have mentioned, there is the potential of him doing this again.

To play devil's advocate for a second, and without trying to justify his actions in any way, a cocktail of drink and drugs, coupled with an active libido, can do strange things to a man's mind. It might induce him to do something he has never even considered doing before, and something he is hugely regretful about.

Unfortunately, it's up to you to weigh things up and make the decision yourself.

whatthebleep wrote: »

what's the procedure if I do make a statement? Is he approached by guards..

The Gardaí will investigate the complaint and part of that process will be to require him to make a statement, yes. Convictions for such assaults are difficult to achieve because when the assault is carried out there is no one else present, and therefore nobody to corroborate the testimony of the complainant. It's not impossible, it's just difficult. So think carefully about the events before you go to the gardaí, if you are going, and have the sequence of events correct in your head, and be prepared for the potential different outcomes.

seahorse

Go ahead and report him OP. If you don't you'll always regret it and especially so if you ever get to hear about him assaulting anyone else.

As for his missus, if I was with a prick like that I'd actually WANT to know, so I could leave the ****er; wouldn't you?

patrickolee

O.P. I reckon you've already made up your mind that you are going to gardai and are just trying to justify it to yourself. You want to be told that you are a victim and how terrible he was. And maybe he is, I don't know and to be honest I don't think you do either.

Personally I wouldn't go to the gaurds on what you've described, because you will put yourself, him and his girlfriend through an awful ordeal, for very little reason.

jimmycrackcorm

patrickolee wrote: »

O.P. I reckon you've already made up your mind that you are going to gardai and are just trying to justify it to yourself. You want to be told that you are a victim and how terrible he was. And maybe he is, I don't know and to be honest I don't think you do either.

Personally I wouldn't go to the gaurds on what you've described, because you will put yourself, him and his girlfriend through an awful ordeal, for very little reason.

+1 for this. It's not worth pursuing for the hassle more so for yourself as you'll just get painted as an easy hussey. Your own friends will then start to doubt you and people will say you led him on and so on.

tbh

OP. This guy commited a serious assault on you. You don't have to decide how serious this is - go to the guards, tell them exactly what happened, and let them decide what they want to do.

spinandscribble

op you seem strong enough to deal with the backlash. go for it if in your heart you know what happened.

Overheal

whatthebleep wrote: »

what's the procedure if I do make a statement? Is he approached by guards..
O God I don't know what to do. Would've considered this guy to be dead on before this. My best friend reckons it's a defo for the guards but I'd hate to ruin someone over a once off mistake, albeit a pretty huge one to my mind, if it's only once off. Reading through the responses in this thread to the fact I was drunk or whatever is putting me right off going further with this too. Bit short skirt syndrome though if you ask me but if that's the way people think then i understand completely why girls don't report full on rapes sometimes!

Look im not proud of it but I have been in a similar situation:

Yes, the Guards will wish to speak with him. Show all due respect to the guard and they do the same. Simple as. Don't stretch the truth; don't lie.

The way this was handled with me... OP, my advice is to go ahead and make the statement. It won't ruin his life unless the charges are pressed and for the most part thats up to you (the rest, up to the Guard in question: which will usually prefer to abide by your wish not to charge)

From what you've told us its Sexual Assault, not rape.

After that you really have 2 choices: don't tell him about it, or do - I prefer do - to give him some time to compose himself before a Guard lands 'randomly' at his front door.

In my case, the plaintiff never planned to tell me but I found out by chance: I can forgive them for making the statement, but not for keeping it a secret for me to find out.

Go make the statement and afterward let your friend know you have, and that its really in his best interest to go visit the guard in question to give his side. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Lux23

patrickolee wrote: »

O.P. I reckon you've already made up your mind that you are going to gardai and are just trying to justify it to yourself. You want to be told that you are a victim and how terrible he was. And maybe he is, I don't know and to be honest I don't think you do either.

Personally I wouldn't go to the gaurds on what you've described, because you will put yourself, him and his girlfriend through an awful ordeal, for very little reason.

Very little reason? I think waking up with your knickers and tights around your ankles is hardly a little reason. It would be a horrible experience for anyone and it is something that would stay with you a long time.

I think the best option is to go to a Solicitor and see what they have to say about the case, bearing in mind that he will want to know every single detail about you, what drugs you were on etc etc. It sounds like the guy was off his head and maybe the shock he got when you went screaming down the stairs is enough for him to consider looking at his drug and alcohol abuse which is probably the biggest problem here.

If the solicitor says you have a case and you want to proceed that don't feel guilty about it. Noone in life ever does everything right but he was the one who made the decision to assault you, you didn't ask for it.

LegacyUser

Yeah feels like it will stay with me alright even though I wish it wouldn't. I know nothing actually happened in a sense but it's the what if I didn't wake up that has me freaked!
Contrary to others have said here, my mind is far from made up but I am actually leaning in the other direction as I would take no pleasure in the hurt it would cause all concerned if I were to pursue this. My conscience is having difficulty with not doing something though as well as I always thought those who didn't to be weak and that they were, in a way, letting down other women by staying silent and in so doing possibly enabling further incidents of this type.

4Xcut

A few words come to mind: Prosecution, Law, Guardaí, Solicitor.

Seriously, alcohol is not an excuse, its a reason. His behavior was immoral and illegal and he should be punished accordingly. Normally, I'm not a huge advocate of the law but seeing as this is P.I. i would advise it most strongly.

People like him should be held up as an example that society, and more specifically, women will not tolerate this sort of carry on.

Dave!

If you're not going to pursue it then I think you should approach the fella and tell him if you hear about anything like that again, you're going straight to the Gardaí. It might not do anything, but there's more chance of him taking that on board than if you do nothing and don't mention it to him.

NortSoide

Many people have advised you to pursue this - but I have a feeling you should just drop it and put it behind you.

I think you could give yourself extra hastle if you go ahead with it.

And, if that chap is - under normal circumstances - a fine, upstanding, pillar of society then it could give him hastle with his family as well. Is that worth it ?

I guess it is no excuse - but people do lose the run of themselves in situations involving excessive alcohol and stuff. It is scandalous the way young people are over-doing the drink every weekend in every town in Ireland. In my own home town, at the local night club, the bouncers have a full-time job chucking drunk latchicos out every 5 minutes ! And, in-between, they have to call an ambulance because some girl has flaked out on the floor ...

Of cousre, there is a question of 'what if' ...
However, ( I think ) that is purely speculation.

And, maybe he realises his mistake himself, feels ashamed and has come to the conclusion that he must
not get into that kind of situation again and let anything like that happen again. In which case, he has already learned his lesson. ( Of course, that is speculation too ).

AARRRGH

There's a good chance he will say "what is she talking about, she was the one who suggested we do this" and it could then get really messy.

It's a difficult choice. Best of luck.

whiskeyman

tbh wrote: »

OP. This guy commited a serious assault on you. You don't have to decide how serious this is - go to the guards, tell them exactly what happened, and let them decide what they want to do.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Unless you are serious about pressing charging and for this to go to court, you need to have a case for prosecution. Is there any? Did you go to a doctor / hospital to provide samples / forensic eveidence? This has to be given very soon after the incident.
It seems highly unlikely and this wouldn't even get near a court and all charges would be dropped. He might be branded a 'perv' due to all the talk of the town, but it may well affect your name if you make allegations where nothing can be proven.
What I'm saying is harsh, but the basic reality of the situation.

tbh

totally innocent until proven guilty. But my advice still stands - the people who know best are the cops. Tell them your story, if they don't think there is enough evidence they'll tell you.

whiskeyman

tbh wrote: »

But my advice still stands - the people who know best are the cops.

Not technically true. The cops won't tell you if you've a case or not. All the evidence gets put forward and sent to the DPP to see if it will then go to trial.
The cops will just take statements and gather evidence.
I'd advise you seek a solicitors advice if you do consider pursuing this to know the true detail and how it may progress.

Morlar

+1 for ringing the guards - not to (deliberately) sound bad about it but if you dont ring the guards and it happens again (or even goes a step further) then you will know that you might have been able to prevent it.

I would say ring the guards - if there is a case to answer they will do what they can - even if they dont prosecute an interview with this person may be enough to set them straight and avoid it happening again. Or it could be that he will be on their radar at the very least.

whiskeyman

Morlar wrote: »

+1 for ringing the guards - not to (deliberately) sound bad about it but if you dont ring the guards and it happens again (or even goes a step further) then you will know that you might have been able to prevent it.

I would say ring the guards - if there is a case to answer they will do what they can - even if they dont prosecute an interview with this person may be enough to set them straight and avoid it happening again. Or it could be that he will be on their radar at the very least.

Just think about this for a moment.

What you will be doing is claiming an alleged incident took place.
You will be then asked if you wish to proceed with the case and the above seems to think you'll leave it, as having him reported is 'good enough' for him
This may well come back against you as someone who reports incidents but doesn't follow them though.

As I said before - seek legal advice (not from the cops). I can't stress this enough.

Morlar

whiskeyman wrote: »

What you will be doing is claiming an alleged incident took place.

The police can decide if its an 'incident' ie crime or not - informing them of her suspicions is a perfectly valid thing for this girl to do.

whiskeyman wrote: »

This may well come back against you as someone who reports incidents but doesn't follow them though.

Bull****. That sounds like the sort of 1970's thinking that leads many women to fail to report sexual assaults or suspected sexual assaults.

Outside of her brothers or father then the guards are by far the best placed people to deal with this.

whiskeyman

Morlar wrote: »

Bull****. That sounds like the sort of 1970's thinking that leads many women to fail to report sexual assaults or suspected sexual assaults.

Say what you like, but I've served on a jury of a rape trial a while back where this was a huge factor.

OP, go to a solicitor, and it's crucial you act sooner rather than later should anything ever come to trial.

Morlar

whiskeyman wrote: »

OP, go to a solicitor, .

If the guards decide there is not enough evidence to proceed with a charge then they will at least interview / warn this person before deciding. He will also be on their radar from that point on. A solicitor is not needed to report a suspected crime.

Miss Fluff

Morlar wrote: »

A solicitor is not needed to report a suspected crime.

No but a good solicitor is required to give sound legal advice, something that is required if the OP wishes to proceed with pursuing this.

Morlar

Miss Fluff wrote: »

No but a good solicitor is required to give sound legal advice, something that is required if the OP wishes to proceed with pursuing this.

Not to drag this out but I still dont agree that a solicitor is a requirement to report any kind of suspected crime whatsoever.

whiskeyman

Morlar wrote: »

Not to drag this out but I still dont agree that a solicitor is a requirement to report any kind of suspected crime whatsoever.

you're right, but reporting and then getting progress on the case is a huge leap that might be very important to the OP (as they are the alleged victim), which is why we advise to go to a solicitor.

Dub6Kevin

Firstly, sincere sympathy to the OP. That must have been a terrifying experience.

Unfortunately, in the absence of corroborating evidence it is unlikely this guy would be charged, let alone convicted.

I would still say it is better to go to the gardai and report it though. The sight of two guards on his doorstep and the thought of being investigated for a sexual assault might be a fright enought to make him cop himself on.

I know that doesn't offer much justice to the OP but it might make it just a little less likely he'll do something like it again.