Log Cabin

rockdrummer

HI,

Thinking of getting one of these:
http://www***********A.pdf

I have a number of questions:

- Has anybody any experience of *********?
- Would 50mm thick walls be sufficient for a games room?
- I hear you dont need planning permission for structures under 25sq mt. Is this correct?
- They advised that I dont need foundations, it can just sit on builders blocks. Would this be OK? what are the implications?
- To get electricity hooked up to the cabin they charge €30 per metre, Is this a good price, or would an electrician be cheaper.

Thanks

Stevie Dakota

I have an 'outdoor room' as they call them.

Has anybody any experience of ********?
No

- Would 50mm thick walls be sufficient for a games room?
Yes, that's what I have and it is very robust.
- I hear you dont need planning permission for structures under 25sq mt. Is this correct?
Not sure.

- They advised that I dont need foundations, it can just sit on builders blocks. Would this be OK? what are the implications?
Hmmm, this sounds dodgy, I went with a level, compacted hardcore foundation, I wouldn't trust an investment like a log cabin on blocks and am a bit surprised that ********* are happy with it either.

- To get electricity hooked up to the cabin they charge €30 per metre, Is this a good price, or would an electrician be cheaper.
Sounds expensive, but it depends on how far to the fuseboard and how you route it there, I would buy a length of armoured cable, run it to your fuse board and call an electrician to connect it.

Mellor

I too wouldn't be happy without a foundation of some sort.
In fact its very bad practice that they even suggested that as they have no knowledge of your site.

Regarding planning. You don't need planning for a Shed up to 25m2. So it comes down to what you willl use the cabin for,
storing tools no planning needed,
sleeping in, planning needed,
games room, grey area

rockdrummer

Thanks for the replies lads.

Yeah I was a bit worried about putting it on blocks, however to get a builder to put in foundations would cost something between 500 - 1000, so would be handy if they werent necessary.

However, I did take a look at copolla cabins (near donabate) and the cabin they were using as an office was on blocks (as far as I can remember, I did ask him about would I need foundations and he said that this cabin was on blocks. BUT I think the blocks were standing on a concrete surface). I will go back and check this out !!

As regards the planning permission, they said I would not need PP for a games room (but I suppose all their interested in is the sale !). If I was to go ahead with this should I be better off to contact Fingal CC? and make sure it is OK?

Stevie Dakota - did you have to get PP?

Stevie Dakota

No, but mine is simply 3 meter square and I use it as a shed, but it could easily be used as something else...;)

Lex Luthor

Great for some if thats their games room...wish I had the land for one

rockdrummer

Lex Luthor - I know what you mean. Thats the whole reason for getting one, houses these days are so small, you only have the minimum room available. If I get this cabin it will take up over half the garden. But the way I see it, I only use the garden for say 4 months max every year (at that only on sunny days). Can use a games room all year !!

Mellor

Just for info for anyone else who see this thread.
Strictly speaking planning is required for one of these. You may or may get away with it. But under the law they are not exempt.

rockdrummer

This planning permission thing seems to be a big gray area. How would the council catch you? I suppose if a neighbour reported you? I am sure their are plenty of people out their with one of these cabins, they seem to have grown in popularity recently (for the same reason I stated earlier, the limited space in houses nowadays).

Does anybody have the number for the local fingal council so I can ask?

rockdrummer

OK just rang Fingal CC and it is fine if used as shed / recreation room.

The stipulation in the guide was that it cannot be used for residential purposes. i.e. cannot have anybody living in it. So if ya use it as a recreation room i.e. pool room, tv, couch it would be fine.

Mellor

The guide doesn't cover all the conditions of exempt shed, its just a guide, there is a legal document, the planning and development regulations that set out the conditions in black and white.

From a legal position it is not allowed. There are about 8 conditions to comply with. Unless your house is timber clad, the log cabin is not exempt as a shed.

The council may or may not let it go, but anything they say over the phone is not offical. If a neighbour complains you will need retention (which you will get)

delly

I'm going to push this over to the construction and planning forum as it seems more suited there.

rockdrummer

this is turning out to be a right pain !!!

So what needs to be done to be 100%?

Do I need to go through the long / cost of a planning application?

OR can I not just get an official word from Fingal about this?

Does the supplier provide any sort of guarantee / certificate about this (I realise that this is probably stupid, but I just thought I'd ask the question)

If this turns out to be illegal - then something needs to be done about the sellers. They are selling these as - office space, extra room for house etc, stating explicitedly on their web pages that planning permission is not required !

smashey

As Mellor has already pointed out, it depends on the use.

You should take a copy of the cabin plans to the planners at Fingal Co. Council and get their advice.

Mellor

rockdrummer wrote:

OR can I not just get an official word from Fingal about this?

You could try and get a declaration of exemption. It might slip through.
If I was speaking to the council, I would keep it annon for the moment. Don't give details of address if you are just enquiring, or do it from a friends/parents address. Just in case they do look for PP.

Does the supplier provide any sort of guarantee / certificate about this (I realise that this is probably stupid, but I just thought I'd ask the question)

If this turns out to be illegal - then something needs to be done about the sellers. They are selling these as - office space, extra room for house etc, stating explicitedly on their web pages that planning permission is not required !

That kind of behaviour is common, even though it is disgraceful.

Mellor

smashey wrote: »

As Mellor has already pointed out, it depends on the use.

You should take a copy of the cabin plans to the planners at Fingal Co. Council and get their advice.

I mentioned to the OP that the use as a rec room may be ok in terms of exemption,
But the conditions of exemption apply, including 25m2 of garden space and also finishes to match existing, the latter is the one that the log cabin fails. and even though it is only a minor issue, the LA could request PP or retention.

250882

As stated above planning permission is required. but (and I am in no way justifying this) legally driving 101KMH in a 100KMH zone is speeding and is punishable by law. I'm sorry mods, feel free to remove if you want, but I think this is going a bit too pc. I have a 25sqm blockwork garage behind my house with a cert of exemption, I use it to store tools, excess tiles and timber from flooring. but when I got a new couch and tv the old ones got put in the garage until I find a new home for them. If I choose to sit on this old couch every day or if I get kicked out of the house by the missus sleep the night on it should I apply for a material change of use from storage to domestic??? technically yes.
OP this is a recreational website and as such should stay clear of legal issues, The mods are all giving you the correct legal answer but thats all that can be said.

smashey

250882 wrote: »

OP this is a recreational website and as such should stay clear of legal issues, The mods are all giving you the correct legal answer but thats all that can be said.

Point of order.

We don't give legal advice here.

rockdrummer

Thanks for the replies.

I never asked for legal advice, only asked peoples opinion, or who to contact, or would I need to go through the whole PP process?

Mainly asking for people who already have them, what did they do? And Im sure their are plenty who have them.

Mellor

250882 wrote: »

I use it to store tools, excess tiles and timber from flooring. but when I got a new couch and tv the old ones got put in the garage until I find a new home for them. If I choose to sit on this old couch every day or if I get kicked out of the house by the missus sleep the night on it should I apply for a material change of use from storage to domestic??? technically yes.

I think you missed the point. See my post above. I am happy enough that the wording of the exempt list is not limited to sheds. You could stretch the rec room to be covered. As long as it wasn't lived it.

But its condition 2 and 3 that could be an issue. One is garden area, other is finish to match existing.
For transparancy, i'm going to say publicly what I said to the OP (sort of). Strictly speaking a shed like the above requires planning. If problems were ran into, it would be hard to get out of it without retention.
THe best option imo, would be a cert of exemption. (Strictly not possible, but if one might be granted by LAs, similar to rear velux issue)

rockdrummer wrote:

I never asked for legal advice, only asked peoples opinion

Don't worry, your request was perfectly fine. Their is a line between legal advice, and opinons on planning etc. You intentions were quite clear from the start.

rockdrummer

So whats the story with my current shed which is 8 X 6 ft, this is just a ******* shed !! the finish does not match the existing house?

The rules seem to be very vague... which can lead to individual interpretation and misunderstanding !!

Mellor

rockdrummer wrote: »

So whats the story with my current shed which is 8 X 6 ft, this is just a ******* shed !! the finish does not match the existing house?

The rules seem to be very vague... which can lead to individual interpretation and misunderstanding !!

Unfornuately this is true, there is alot of room for interpretation.
I remember we had a similar discussion once on a teepee or wigwam in the garden.

smashey

rockdrummer wrote: »

So whats the story with my current shed which is 8 X 6 ft, this is just a ****** shed !! the finish does not match the existing house?

I would imagine this would be okay.

rockdrummer

I know it is OK, 90% of gardens have them. So whats the difference if I got a larger shed, exact same thing just bigger !!

smashey

It's all about usage.

As was previously stated, games room is a grey area. I don't think the 8' x 6' would be used as a games room.

Also, would the 8' x 6' shed be easily moved?

Again, if in doubt, ask your planner.

Mellor

rockdrummer wrote: »

I know it is OK, 90% of gardens have them. So whats the difference if I got a larger shed, exact same thing just bigger !!

My way of looking at it is the small wooden sheds are accepted. They are small structures and requiring PP would be futile. There is no where in the planning and development act or regulations that allows for this specificly.

The larger sheds are considerable structures, and because of their size and use they can't be just overlooked. So they must either comply with P+D regulations for exemption or apply for PP.

rockdrummer

No, its not all about usage, another rule is that the finish has to match the existing house?

My point is that

1. The ***** shed does not match the finish of the house
2. Usage - I can use the cabin to store the pool table !! I will be using it for storage, but also to store / play pool i.e. shed. People use their sheds as workrooms for hobbies etc

By rights, and going by all the rules stated in this thread, a neighbour could complain about my ******* shed and I may have to take it down !!!!

rockdrummer

Mellor - what you said makes perfect sense, but they should clarify this in their regulations. Just thinking of the poor buyer who believes everything the seller says and then finds himself having to tear it down a few weeks later. The rules should be drawn up with sellers in mind, and leave no room for misinterpretation.

Mellor wrote: »

My way of looking at it is the small wooden sheds are accepted. They are small structures and requiring PP would be futile. There is no where in the planning and development act or regulations that allows for this specificly.

The larger sheds are considerable structures, and because of their size and use they can't be just overlooked. So they must either comply with P+D regulations for exemption or apply for PP.

isthatyoudave?

I had a log cabin fitted last year out in the garden, and it was a nightmare.

I had one side of it fitted with a sink and wee worktop and after about 3 months the cabin started to shrink, the tiles all fell of the wall and the gabs opened up on the walls were, in places, wide enough to fit your pink through. The door windows cracked and after about 6 months I couldn't lock the door as they were completely out of line.

Cabin was erected on a 12" thick concrete base so it wasn't foundation problems, just a crap cabin..

I would definitely go visit some other cabins which your dealer has supplied, go see some which are 6, ,12 & 24 months old to see how well they weather.

I had a 8m x 6m one with a 2m veranda on front.

rockdrummer

WOW, sorry to hear that...

Did you ever find out what caused the shrinkage? Who did ya get it off?

Good idea to go visit other sites !

250882

Man told to flatten garden cabin

---

Man told to flatten garden cabin
Paul Cullen

A Dublin man claims South Dublin County Council is trying to make him homeless by insisting he demolishes a log cabin in his back garden in which he is currently living.

Tony Stirrat from Lucan is renting out the main house in which he has lived for the past 20 years because, he says, he needs the rental income to help defray the increased costs of a €120,000 mortgage on the house.

"I've nowhere to live. I'm just doing what I have to do to survive," he told The Irish Times. "There are lots of cabins like mine around Lucan and everywhere else and they don't have planning [ permission]."

Last month, the council refused Mr Stirrat retention permission for a single-storey prefabricated timber dwelling to the rear of his house in Abbeydale Close in Lucan. He had earlier been served with an enforcement notice requiring the removal of the 31sq m structure.

The council ruled that the cabin was out of character for the area, would depreciate the value of properties in the vicinity and would set an undesirable precedent.

Mr Stirrat, who runs a boiler maintenance company, separated from his partner six years ago and his business suffered in the aftermath. He sought a mortgage from a number of mainstream providers to buy out his partner but was refused. Then subprime lender Start Mortgages agreed to give him a mortgage.

He says he used the money to become sole owner of the main house and provide a financial injection to get his business going again. However, the recent rise in mortgage interest rates placed him under financial pressure and he came up with the idea of building a chalet in the back garden and renting out his house.

The cabin cost €10,000 and Mr Stirrat spent €13,000 fitting it out. He did the plumbing and electrics himself and even installed a jacuzzi. He describes the living arrangement as open plan.

Mr Stirrat has rented out his house for €1,200, which goes a long way towards paying his monthly mortgage repayments of €1,614. He hopes to move back into the house eventually, when a high street mortgage provider agrees to give him a cheaper loan.

The case highlights the legal uncertainty surrounding back-garden structures, which are becoming increasingly popular as houseowners opt to extend their living space rather than go to the expense of moving house. While the structure itself may be an exempted building, its use for commercial purposes or as a public space or habitable dwelling usually needs planning permission.

© 2007 The Irish Times

muffler

250882 wrote: »

He had earlier been served with an enforcement notice requiring the removal of the 31sq m structure.................................................While the structure itself may be an exempted building, its use for commercial purposes or as a public space or habitable dwelling usually needs planning permission.© 2007 The Irish Times

What a load of shite a journalist can write. I think the Times need someone who is familiar with the basics of planning legislation.

250882

You should have seen the picture, the thing was L-shaped and covered the whole width and lenght from touching the back wall of the house to the boundary fence on the rear and to both sides. There was a small area large enough for a couple of wheely bins in the void of the L and thats it, the gutters probably werent even inside the site.
Guy probably doesnt need a big lawnmower now I suppose.

Mellor

Thats just typical, the big problem is that about of lay people won't question the times, taking the above at fact.

Regarding the structure being over the limit for exemption. Even if it was under. here is still no uncertainty. Its is clearly a black and white issue. Its not allowed. There is no such things as structure and use being separate planning issues.


edit: from the above its sounds like it was also not exempt due to the remaining garden, thats 3 counts I make it.

rockdrummer

He blatantly broke the regulations - 31 sq mt, he's living in it !!

Their are plenty of log cabin providers - so their must be a market for them, I would be very interested to hear from other people who got them installed.

Did they have to get PP?
If not, have they had any problems - neighbours, council etc?
Are they sturdy?

Nimina

isthatyoudave? wrote: »

I had a log cabin fitted last year out in the garden, and it was a nightmare.

I had one side of it fitted with a sink and wee worktop and after about 3 months the cabin started to shrink, the tiles all fell of the wall and the gabs opened up on the walls were, in places, wide enough to fit your pink through. The door windows cracked and after about 6 months I couldn't lock the door as they were completely out of line.

Cabin was erected on a 12" thick concrete base so it wasn't foundation problems, just a crap cabin..

I would definitely go visit some other cabins which your dealer has supplied, go see some which are 6, ,12 & 24 months old to see how well they weather.

I had a 8m x 6m one with a 2m veranda on front.

I am having one of these put in (starting tomorrow)...this post has scared the sh1t out of me to say the least. Can you say who done yours? Also, did you ever find out why this happened to yours?

muffler

Nimina wrote: »

I am having one of these put in (starting tomorrow)...this post has scared the sh1t out of me to say the least. Can you say who done yours? Also, did you ever find out why this happened to yours?

The user who posted that comment is a shill and has since been site banned. He was on a nice drum roll with that post which was supposed to lead to the crescendo of "hey I know where you can buy a good one - from me" except we caught him in the act and he has been booted out of here.

So dont let his comments put you off as they were nothing more than a figment of imagination.

Nimina

Ah thanks a MILLION for that...have been ringing around all morning to see if I could get a foundation laid before these guys start...impossible, I know.

You have put my mind at ease.

Thanks again.

-unlaoised-

Mellor wrote: »

Just for info for anyone else who see this thread.
Strictly speaking planning is required for one of these. You may or may get away with it. But under the law they are not exempt.

Please see below regulations for exempt development relating to this thread.
from the below it would appear that planning would not be required for a games room - which would be a use incidental to the enjoyment of the house.

SCHEDULE 2
Article 6
PART 1
Exempted Development — General
Development within the curtilage of a
house
CLASS 3
The construction, erection or placing
within the curtilage of a house of any
tent, awning, shade or other object,
greenhouse, garage, store, shed or other
similar structure.
1. No such structure shall be constructed,
erected or placed forward of the front
wall of a house.
2. The total area of such structures
constructed, erected or placed within the
curtilage of a house shall not, taken
together with any other such structures
previously constructed, erected or placed
within the said curtilage, exceed 25
square metres.
3. The construction, erection or
placing within the curtilage of a house of
any such structure shall not reduce the
amount of private open space reserved
exclusively for the use of the occupants
of the house to the rear or to the side of
the house to less than 25 square metres.
4. The external finishes of any garage or
other structure constructed, erected or
placed to the side of a house, and the roof
covering where any such structure has a
tiled or slated roof, shall conform with
those of the house.
157
5. The height of any such structure shall
not exceed, in the case of a building with
a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or,
in any other case, 3 metres.
6. The structure shall not be used for
human habitation or for the keeping of
pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses,
or for any other purpose other than a
purpose incidental to the enjoyment of
the house as such.

muffler

Nimina wrote: »

I hope you don't work for *********

I think smashey removed the users original comments and replaced them with his own little piece of fun

smashey

coppolac wrote: »

Wooooooohoooooo,

Look at me,

first post and I'm banned for being a shill.

Nimina wrote: »

I hope you don't work for **********.

muffler wrote: »

I think smashey removed the users original comments and replaced them with his own little piece of fun

Correct.

muffler

smashey wrote: »

Correct.

Boards.ie resident comedian

Eurorunner

Just wondered if anyone had any feedback on cabins supplied by this crowd?

or these?

Will probably take a trip up there as it would be interesting to see if theres more value to be had up north...

Mellor

-unlaoised- wrote: »

Please see below regulations for exempt development relating to this thread.
from the below it would appear that planning would not be required for a games room - which would be a use incidental to the enjoyment of the house.

If you read this thread you will see that the issue of use was not a problem as long as it wasn't lived in,
the planning issue was to do with finish. It needs planning for a timber finish if it is to the side of the house, different LAs may interpet this differently, and comments such as planning is not needed are very dangerous for a forum like this.
Once again, until you know for sure assume planning IS required

c-dog

thinkin of gettin one of these log cabins in myself, wat seems to be the price for the whole operation if you don't mind me askin?

Lex Luthor

just wondering how you all got on with your log cabins?

I have mine a good few months now and has been erected for well over a year and is not showing any signs of shrinkage/movement etc.

The cabin is built on concrete pillars made of standard blocks. Each pillar consists of proabably about 20 blocks depending on its height and each pillar also has a foundation below it. I think there are at least 20-30 of these pillars underneath supporting the structure.

Feel free to ask me any questions about it. It was built by a company in Cork called***********
Here's a few pics of it completed. There are a few in the development so its not on my own land.

Varedero

Does any one our there know anything about log houses??. I have been looking at them on the web for a couple of years now. We have been thinking of building a house for a while and my wife and myself both like the look of them. Does any one know where i can view one in Ireland? If there is any one out there that actually lives in one or lived in one it would be great to hear from you. I am not talking about these little wooden chaletts , but a propper log house. I know there is one just of the road between Arklow and Wicklow on the left (heading back towards Wicklow).and it looks fab. Also is there any isues around planning ?? Help would be great!
P.S if anyone has built/lived in one, how did it work out compared to building a traditional house moneywise ?? Cheaper or more expencive??:eek:

muffler

Merged with existing thread on log cabins

Sten

rockdrummer wrote: »

HI,

Thinking of getting one of these:
http://www.***********.com/Meath%20A.pdf

I have a number of questions:

- Has anybody any experience of *********?
- Would 50mm thick walls be sufficient for a games room?
- I hear you dont need planning permission for structures under 25sq mt. Is this correct?
- They advised that I dont need foundations, it can just sit on builders blocks. Would this be OK? what are the implications?
- To get electricity hooked up to the cabin they charge €30 per metre, Is this a good price, or would an electrician be cheaper.

Thanks

I have a house from ******cabins,its called the marino a ,ive had it for almost 4 years and im just thinking of over painting it..
Everything is as i was promised,the guys are really hard workinkg and the finish is grand.
I was one of there first clients ,i hear they even improved the quality ,better doors, better windows,better finish and they also do concrete foundations now.Its youre own risk if you wanna but it on blocks,but they dont recommend that.
If you gonna buy a cabin or a shed of any kind, then i recommend them ,maybe its not the cheapest but definitly good quality and nice finish.The electirics may not be the cheapest ,but better to get from them because the electrician can work with the builders and the hiding of the wires and the safety of all of the electric work is gonna be better.I think that for 50 mm you just need more heating douring the winter but over all it should be great for a games room.

sydthebeat

Varedero wrote: »

Does any one our there know anything about log houses??. I have been looking at them on the web for a couple of years now. We have been thinking of building a house for a while and my wife and myself both like the look of them. Does any one know where i can view one in Ireland? If there is any one out there that actually lives in one or lived in one it would be great to hear from you. I am not talking about these little wooden chaletts , but a propper log house. I know there is one just of the road between Arklow and Wicklow on the left (heading back towards Wicklow).and it looks fab. Also is there any isues around planning ?? Help would be great!
P.S if anyone has built/lived in one, how did it work out compared to building a traditional house moneywise ?? Cheaper or more expencive??:eek:

Im my experience where these log cabins run into difficulty is when the client needs a mortgage to pay for it....
In order for a mortgage to be taken out on a property it must be shown, by certification by a qualified professional, that the structure complies to building regulations.
These log homes are generally non-irish, therefore are constructed to different building regulations... therefore it is almost impossible to get a professional to 'certify' them..... therefore no mortgage given, therefore no log home....

I have seen plenty on my travels throughout ireland, so either the clients:
1. payed for it without a mortgage,
2. the system is certified to comply with irish building regulations,
3. a professional certified that it complies to regulations (unlikely),
4. the mortgage was given without need for certification (unlikely),

My only advise is to do plenty of homework before putting in any order...

Eurorunner

Do you have any connection with the company - seeing as its your first post???

Sten wrote: »

I have a house from *********s,its called the marino a ,ive had it for almost 4 years and im just thinking of over painting it..
Everything is as i was promised,the guys are really hard workinkg and the finish is grand.
I was one of there first clients ,i hear they even improved the quality ,better doors, better windows,better finish and they also do concrete foundations now.Its youre own risk if you wanna but it on blocks,but they dont recommend that.
If you gonna buy a cabin or a shed of any kind, then i recommend them ,maybe its not the cheapest but definitly good quality and nice finish.The electirics may not be the cheapest ,but better to get from them because the electrician can work with the builders and the hiding of the wires and the safety of all of the electric work is gonna be better.I think that for 50 mm you just need more heating douring the winter but over all it should be great for a games room.