How come they got their Visa?

mick.fr

Hey,

I am seriously wondering how come all those Indians who are doing low end jobs (I have nothing against them) are getting their work visa?

I mean PC World and a lot of other shops are filled up with Indian people exclusively, and not necessary young ones, like they could be student.
On average they are 30-40.

Last time I asked the petrol station guy to wash my car and he sent me an Indian.
45 years old something like this. He was not even able to wash my car, he never did it, finally the Irish guy from the station did it.

That does not make sense to me that the Irish government gives away working visa to those people because they are still paid the minimum wage anyway.

There are plenty of young Irish and EU fellas looking for jobs here and they don't find any.

There is a lack of skilled professionals all over the EU, fair enough, but come on like we have not enough problems...

Nothing racist here, only economical.

kona

mick.fr wrote: »

Hey,

I am seriously wondering how come all those Indians who are doing low end jobs (I have nothing against them) are getting their work visa?

I mean PC World and a lot of other shops are filled up with Indian people exclusively, and not necessary young ones, like they could be student.
On average they are 30-40.

Last time I asked the petrol station guy to wash my car and he sent me an Indian.
45 years old something like this. He was not even able to wash my car, he never did it, finally the Irish guy from the station did it.

That does not make sense to me that the Irish government gives away working visa to those people because they are still paid the minimum wage anyway.

They are plenty of young Irish and EU fellas looking for jobs here and they don't find any.

There is a lack of skilled professionals all over the EU, fair enough, but come like we have not enough problems...

Nothing racist here, only economical.

no need to keep sayin racist;)
they come in on student visas for a few years, they then HAVE to go home.
over there i wouldnt say its as easy as turn 18 and off to ireland!!
they prob have to work first.

mick.fr

kona wrote: »

no need to keep sayin racist;)
they come in on student visas for a few years, they then HAVE to go home.
over there i wouldnt say its as easy as turn 18 and off to ireland!!
they prob have to work first.

Well maybe but they are full time.
As far as I know a foreign student is not entitled to work full time here, only 20 hours a week.
And come on, most of them are over 30, what are they coming to study here, Irish?

watna

Maybe they're citizens of EU countries or are married to an Irish/EU citizen.

MY bf looks Indian but is not.

Not ever person who looks "Indian" comes from India you know.

mick.fr

watna wrote: »

Maybe they're citizens of EU countries or are married to an Irish/EU citizen.

MY bf looks Indian but is not.

Not ever person who looks "Indian" comes from India you know.

Some maybe but most of them are clearly not
And I know to make the difference between a Pakistani/Sri Lanka...

watna

mick.fr wrote: »

Some maybe but most of them are clearly not
And I know to make the difference between a Pakistani/Sri Lanka...

but they could still be married to an EU citizen or be an EU citizen in another way.

Also, people can get dependent visas if their spouses are working in Ireland. A lot of Indian etc people work here as IT professionals or nurses and bring their spouses with them. The spouses can then get jobs doing what they want.


That could be it too.

Or they could be mature students doing a masters/studying here in one of those colleges you pay for.

Theres loads of ways!

mick.fr

watna wrote: »

but they could still be married to an EU citizen or be an EU citizen in another way.

Also, people can get dependent visas if their spouses are working in Ireland. A lot of Indian etc people work here as IT professionals or nurses and bring their spouses with them. The spouses can then get jobs doing what they want.


That could be it too.

Or they could be mature students doing a masters/studying here in one of those colleges you pay for.

Theres loads of ways!

1st of off no there are not a lot of indian people working in IT in this country.
And hopefully.
I know a few in IT alright, some Indian, some from Pakistan. Some with High End IT jobs very well paid. And they are good at what they do.
But most of them, when not Medical Doctors, have low end jobs.

And definitely I am talking about those who are fully Indian, with Indian wife, Indian kids etc. I see a lot of them.

givyjoe81

watna wrote: »

but they could still be married to an EU citizen or be an EU citizen in another way.

Also, people can get dependent visas if their spouses are working in Ireland. A lot of Indian etc people work here as IT professionals or nurses and bring their spouses with them. The spouses can then get jobs doing what they want.


That could be it too.

Or they could be mature students doing a masters/studying here in one of those colleges you pay for.

Theres loads of ways!

tell me mick have you ever heard of a pink elephant? Look it up and then apply it to your statement "It's not racist" not exactly what you said but sure is the sentiment.

The reason immigrants from countries such as this is because Irish people simply DO NOT want to do them. They are minimum wage paid jobs among other things so why would then want them. And speaking of a masters i recently started one but had to drop out for personal reasons (watna heres a clue to my root cause of my financial situation!) and id say65 percent of my class were foreign students who had degrees back home, were mostly indian and chinese (who i might add have to lie about why they are in ireland, didnt follow up but as i understand they are persecuted for getting an education here, or at least the girls are, i stand to serious correction here) and guess what, many of them worked PC world and in service stations. The guys that were in my class were def mature students and do you know what, they are absolute genius's when it comes to computers.

Tom Dunne

mick.fr wrote: »

1st of off no there are not a lot of indian people working in IT in this country.

You must be working in a different IT industry to me, then.

mick.fr wrote: »

And definitely I am talking about those who are fully Indian, with Indian wife, Indian kids etc. I see a lot of them.

As opposed to the half-casts, is it? :rolleyes:

givyjoe81

Tom Dunne wrote: »

You must be working in a different IT industry to me, then.



As opposed to the half-casts, is it? :rolleyes:

Im not too big up on the IT but i did go to a Dell interview recently and do know what they actually said to me Mick, they said your not the usaul kind of guy we would employ, we usually look for people who have worked in PC world and the like.. can you read between the lines?

Oh and what do jobs do irish people do when not MEDICAL doctors?! Do we really have to go down the cliched route of mentioning how irish people have for decades and centuries gone to other countries and taken these so called low end jobs in order to get by? From your vocab mick and the second half of your name im gonna guess (correct me if im wrong) your not irish yourself? French perhaps? So why do you care who comes here? Oh and im not indian myself mick, thanks for the suggestion of working in Domino's though.

Pythia

Look, the OP has a point. There is a huge amount of people from non-EU countries working here, they must have had to get visas to come here.
Yes, some may be married, 2nd generation, etc, but most of them aren't.
It looks like it must be pretty easy to get a working visa.

DublinWriter

Ah yes, the old "I'm not racist, but..." argument.

Yet again, Irish people complaining about immigration. The irony, the irony.

orestes

Shag it, they are doing the jobs that Irish people are too lazy to do or to self-righteous to do now that we have a bit of cash. Why work at a petrol station all night when you can get the same amount of cash every week for staying in bed till two in the afternoon apart from the one day a month you gotta get up early and go sign a piece of paper?

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

Ah yes, the old "I'm not racist, but..." argument.

Yet again, Irish people complaining about immigration. The irony, the irony.

I hate this agruement.....I'm the end product of generations of people who decided to suffer the old sod. Where is the irony.

I have worked with large numbers of well educated Indians. Typically they were here to gain life expierence before they go home to take over their family businesses.
They were without exception the most diligent and productive workers I have ever met. Having tremendous pride in doing a job well, regardless of weather it was beneath their education or social status. They were also incredibly polite, pleasant and friendly.

I'd be happy to take as many like that as we can get for new Irish.

Nody

Moonbaby wrote: »

I have worked with large numbers of well educated Indians. Typically they were here to gain life expierence before they go home to take over their family businesses.
They were without exception the most diligent and productive workers I have ever met. Having tremendous pride in doing a job well, regardless of weather it was beneath their education or social status. They were also incredibly polite, pleasant and friendly.

I'd be happy to take as many like that as we can get for new Irish.

This really except I'd replace Indians with non EU citizens first generation (though there are some hard working countries in EU as well, Germany comes to mind directly but never end up in a argument with them ).

MIN2511

Eduction has no age!
Also these people are cheap to employ... minimum wage and all

mick.fr

Thanks for the comments calling me a "racist".
Also thanks to the usual comment (You must be working in another IT industry bla bla).
How to get a constructive discussion here without getting insulted.

I mean guys seriously give the benefice of the doubt and as you know it is pretty easy to make your own interpretation of what somebody wrote. Especially when the other is a non native English speaker.

So first off I am French, spent all my life with black people, even made a baby with one that she later killed before birth, been in Ireland a good couple of years, spent 13 years in Germany with Turkish, African, Italian communities, so I have absolutely no problem with "foreigners" in that sense as I am one myself, with different countries roots.
Foreigner is a subjective word to me and does not mean much.

For those stating there are a lot of Indians working in Ireland in IT that is not the case at all. Only a very few of them.
I have seen a few working as software testers, call center analysts (Dell, NTL...), sys admin or again working at PC World (Who dare calling that IT?).

So yes this is not my area as I do consulting and do not work in call centers.
And definitely when I recruit a consultant or system admin for a contract, go through all the agencies around Dublin, I never came across an Indian resume. Neither on my customer sites.

A lot of agencies down here on this forum, I am sure they will be able to corroborate.

Anyway back to the point, I am very surprised they do get their Visa, probably because they have a lot of diplomas in India, that makes their life easier for sure. But most of them are doing low end jobs here anyway.

And I have worked a lot with Indian based companies in the last couple of years, I have to say, I am far to be impressed by their skills.
I spoke to many of them who were all MCSE bla bla, they were not able to tell the different between SAM and LDAP.
A very few of them were good though, I am not making a generality.

mick.fr

MIN2511 wrote: »

Eduction has no age!
Also these people are cheap to employ... minimum wage and all

Not sure that is the point.
Irish companies for low en jobs will give the minimum wage anyway.
Are the Irish students complaining about that? Like there is not enough Polish, Latvian people who are 20 and are looking for a job, even minimum wage they are happy you know.

ntlbell

DublinWriter wrote: »

Ah yes, the old "I'm not racist, but..." argument.

Yet again, Irish people complaining about immigration. The irony, the irony.

The funny thing is Mick.fr is French...and a bit dim

mick.fr

ntlbell wrote: »

The funny thing is Mick.fr is French...and a bit dim

Yeah ok another insult from you.
I am seriously getting tired by your crazy stuffs man.
Got a problem with me, met me up face to face and show me what you got.
If you can't do that, just give me a brake and stop insulting me every time you see one of my post.

MIN2511

mick.fr wrote: »

Not sure that is the point.
Irish companies for low en jobs will give the minimum wage anyway.
Are the Irish students complaining about that? Like there is not enough Polish, Latvian people who are 20 and are looking for a job, even minimum wage they are happy you know.

Education has no age meaning even people in their 50's can still go to school!

Software Testers? Is that not IT??????

mick.fr

MIN2511 wrote: »

Education has no age meaning even people in their 50's can still go to school!

Software Testers? Is that not IT??????

Yes education alright I said nothing about that, just pointed out the wages.
And yes that is what I said, I have seen a few "software testers", "call center analysts" and this is IT in Ireland. But certainly not PC World sales job.

ntlbell

mick.fr wrote: »

Yeah ok another insult from you.
I am seriously getting tired by your crazy stuffs man.
Got a problem with me, met me up face to face and show me what you got.
If you can't do that, just give me a brake and stop insulting me every time you see one of my post.

The Internet, Serious business.

mick.fr

ntlbell wrote: »

The Internet, Serious business.

And so what that give you the right to insult people like that without reason, just because it makes you happy and feel strong?
You have some serious problems man, get a life or a punch, that will wake you up.

ntlbell

mick.fr wrote: »

And so what that give you the right to insult people like that without reason, just because it makes you happy and feel strong?
You have some serious problems man, get a life or a punch, that will wake you up.

Offering to meet people off line to show you what they've got?

Yeah, I have the problems

givyjoe81

mick.fr wrote: »

Thanks for the comments calling me a "racist".
Also thanks to the usual comment (You must be working in another IT industry bla bla).
How to get a constructive discussion here without getting insulted.

I mean guys seriously give the benefice of the doubt and as you know it is pretty easy to make your own interpretation of what somebody wrote. Especially when the other is a non native English speaker.

So first off I am French, spent all my life with black people, even made a baby with one that she later killed before birth, been in Ireland a good couple of years, spent 13 years in Germany with Turkish, African, Italian communities, so I have absolutely no problem with "foreigners" in that sense as I am one myself, with different countries roots.
Foreigner is a subjective word to me and does not mean much.

For those stating there are a lot of Indians working in Ireland in IT that is not the case at all. Only a very few of them.
I have seen a few working as software testers, call center analysts (Dell, NTL...), sys admin or again working at PC World (Who dare calling that IT?).

So yes this is not my area as I do consulting and do not work in call centers.
And definitely when I recruit a consultant or system admin for a contract, go through all the agencies around Dublin, I never came across an Indian resume. Neither on my customer sites.

A lot of agencies down here on this forum, I am sure they will be able to corroborate.

Anyway back to the point, I am very surprised they do get their Visa, probably because they have a lot of diplomas in India, that makes their life easier for sure. But most of them are doing low end jobs here anyway.

And I have worked a lot with Indian based companies in the last couple of years, I have to say, I am far to be impressed by their skills.
I spoke to many of them who were all MCSE bla bla, they were not able to tell the different between SAM and LDAP.
A very few of them were good though, I am not making a generality.

Mate take some of your own advice will you. The reason i didnt think twice about it cos you clearly didnt when suggesting i work for domino's quite dismissively in another thread, so you dont get the benefit of the doubt from me. Also how many times do we hear people im not racist but im sick of all these people coming in taking our jobs.

Have you ever heard of a fellow called Ron Atkinson? Apparently he's not racist either.

the_syco

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Do we really have to go down the cliched route of mentioning how irish people have for decades and centuries gone to other countries and taken these so called low end jobs in order to get by?

Or how we have a load of people on the dole who don't seem to want a job? Some jobs are seen as beneath the Irish, only for foreigners, etc. Bo||ox. If you really want a job, any job will do.

Someone said something about spouses of the healthcare staff being able to work: pretty sure that's only new, as the Filipino nurses were complaining about it a while back. I know a few Irish people, who's (foreign) spouses can't get employed, as they haven't been in the country long enough.

The non-native speaker will work to feed their family. The native can get the dole.

Pythia

Surely the point of this thread isn't to talk about what kind of money or jobs these people are working, but what kind of visas they got to come to the country to take those jobs.

MIN2511

Pythia wrote: »

Surely the point of this thread isn't to talk about what kind of money or jobs these people are working, but what kind of visas they got to come to the country to take those jobs.

I thought so too, but as usual with boards.ie when it's about immigration there are so many different opinions.....
ntlbell and mick.fr there is no need for anyone to get physical, we all have different opinions.

the_syco

Pythia wrote: »

Surely the point of this thread isn't to talk about what kind of money or jobs these people are working, but what kind of visas they got to come to the country to take those jobs.

Yes and no. A full timer won't be on a student visa, etc.

Nody

MIN2511 wrote: »

I thought so too, but as usual with boards.ie when it's about immigration there are so many different opinions...

MIN2511

Nody wrote: »

Brilliant!!!

damnyanks

A lot of you are ignoring his point.

Getting a work visa isnt an easy thing. I worked with a good few people who tried to get one for Ireland who would of automatically had a high paying job lined up on top of their various degree's, msc, phd's mba's and so on.

These are normally jobs not many people in Ireland can fill up.

On the other hand you have a lot of people who seem to get visa's to work in non skilled jobs.

Raekwon

I work in IT and I have met loads of workers from the Middle East throughout the years, I'd even go as far as to say that the global IT industry is saturated with 'entry level' IT workers from places like Pakistan, India, etc. I am not going to tar them all with the same brush but alot of the ones I have met haven't got the best technical skills even though they possess industry certificates such as MCSE's, CCNA's etc. (India for example has a huge braindumping problem and it is pretty clear to see).

From a consumer's point of view, I recently had a bad experience while placing an order with Dell from Indian staff and it made me question why so many employers actually employee Middle Eastern people who obviously don't know what they are doing half of the time. I'm sure that their are lots of Irish people who would work in these entry positions to gain experience while in college or to further their careers. I just find the whole situation strange.

jmcdoe

Quit complaining about people complaining about you. Seems there must be a good reason for that. I'm the best, I've been everywhere, did everything, seen everything and know everything. You're best of the best.

If you live in Ireland why do you on and on complain about Irish stuff? If you don't like it go back to France. Monkeysoft and French people are much alike in my book.

irishpartyboy

I have no problem with any nationality who's living here in Ireland and prepared to "work". We can do without people who constantly criticize, complain about the country that feeds you.

OP, did you ever consider that people may be fed up reading posts that many have the same recurring themes:-

(a) "blow your own trumpet"
(b) "complain about Irish, Ireland, Irish Professionals, IT industry in Ireland, foreigners in Ireland"

and on and and on....



At the rate your offering to meet "face to face" to settle differences, I'd like to be there to see it.

AARRRGH

You need to ask the Indian's if they are working full-time or part-time.

If they're working part-time, they're probably here on a student visa so they're legally entitled to work 20 hours per week. Do they work extra hours for cash under the table? Who knows.

If they're working full-time well then they don't have a work visa, because you need to be earning over 30k to get a work visa.

jenny-walsh

I think if soneone's willing to work at a job fair play to them, if they're happy to do it for a lesser wage fair play to them. personall I think it's good for the economy, all these people coming in keeping the workplace busy and competitive.
My brother is self employed and has had to bid for jobs, as does my partner, who's a tiler. But he's very good at his job so he's now after building a great name and more likely to get the job

Alot of Irish people have priced themselves out of the market.

I know alot of people (and I'm not referring to anyone on the board cos I don't know ye) who constantly complain that the "foreigners" have taken all the jobs, but these people are on the dole and have no intention of getting a job...far too lazy.

kcools

I worked for many years in recruitment and had hundreds of Indian cv's sent to me. 99% of them are on student visas, so can work (a limited number of hours - depends on whether its in term time or not) legally in Ireland. The visa is only valid as long as they are studying, therefore the moment they stop studying they lose the right to work (unless they have married an EU citizen etc.).

nesf

mick.fr wrote: »

And so what that give you the right to insult people like that without reason, just because it makes you happy and feel strong?
You have some serious problems man, get a life or a punch, that will wake you up.

ntlbell wrote: »

Offering to meet people off line to show you what they've got?

Yeah, I have the problems

Quit it both of you.

Raskolnikov

Tom Dunne wrote: »

You must be working in a different IT industry to me, then.

I've never met an Irish-based Indian in IT. I have however met two Pakistani's.

MIN2511

nesf wrote: »

Quit it both of you.

Thought so as well... They seem to be bickering like kids!

These companies won't pay over the odds, they are paying foreigners minimum wage e.t.c. They don't care if they can't provide quality of service. You should ask them when next you see them

jackbhoy

mick.fr wrote: »

Thanks for the comments calling me a "racist".
Also thanks to the usual comment (You must be working in another IT industry bla bla).
How to get a constructive discussion here without getting insulted.

The comment by other poster about IT industry is spot on. I don't know what section you work in but my employer is one of biggest IT employers in the country, and I work with a huge number of Pakistani/Indian guys. In general they are very good programmers, really well-educated and hard working, all have got at least hons degrees and are generally IBM//MS etc. certified.

Oh and to answer your original question, they generally get 3 month visas, they then have to leave the country and reapply from abroad. A small number get 12 month or longer visas if my employer can make a case to immigration for it.

Hard to listen to you criticise these lads for coming here to work, I disagree with letting people in here who are clearly not genuine asylum seekers but I have no problem with anyone who wants to come here to make a better life for themselves, doing jobs that we now feel above doing and keeping our companies competitive in terms of cost versus international competitors. Your comments are ill-informed and shortsighted, that's about the nicest way I could put it.

eth0_

Urm, why don't you just ask these guys how they got their visas if it bothers you that much? There's no way a non-national would get a visa to work in Spar. More than likely the Indian guys you see working in minimum wage jobs are STUDENTS who are on a student visa which allows them to work about 15 hours a week or so.

I'd rather be served in a shop by an Indian/Chinese/African person who usually shows more manners to customers than the sullen Irish teenagers they replaced.

GoneShootin

mick.fr wrote: »

Nothing racist here, only economical.

Nothing intelligent there, only ignorance. Every impulse in my noggin is screaming at me to lock this insane thread, but I want to see how far down the ladder mick.fr can go.

mick.fr wrote:

How to get a constructive discussion here without getting insulted.

Not starting non-constructive threads would be a good start.

mick.fr wrote:

Especially when the other is a non native English speaker.

Like those Indians you speak so fondly of? The ones where all your examples of your interaction are never positive and only negative?

mick.fr wrote:

even made a baby with one that she later killed before birth

What has this got to do with the "point" you are trying to make?

mick.fr wrote:

For those stating there are a lot of Indians working in Ireland in IT that is not the case at all. Only a very few of them.

I'm sick of you making this **** up to back up your perspective. Link us to some cold hard facts about worker demographics in the Irish IT sector. Your insulated work experience does not qualify as general fact.

mick.fr wrote:

or again working at PC World (Who dare calling that IT?).

I'd call that IT. What do you define as IT?

mick.fr wrote:

But most of them are doing low end jobs here anyway.

Again - facts - please.

mick.fr wrote:

And I have worked a lot with Indian based companies in the last couple of years, I have to say, I am far to be impressed by their skills.
I spoke to many of them who were all MCSE bla bla, they were not able to tell the different between SAM and LDAP.
A very few of them were good though

This is not only an Indian problem I can assure you. I have worked or have had dealings with some Irish based IT companies, and my experiences with them have been paltry at best. At the same toss of that coin, many of these Irish IT companies have been superb.

mick.fr wrote:

I am not making a generality.

Yes - you are. Your perspective is biased and prejudiced and you are unable to come up with any facts to back up your notions.

legs11

The crux of the problem here is that Ireland has lost its magic, its far too easy to nip into our land and get a job and before I go on I am not racist either, I just think theres far too many fookers around who are up to no good and are not contributing to our economy and/or society in any way.
we need to get a structured system in order with prolific background and education checks in order, but with out current corrupt government in place, this is not going to happen now, or in 5 years time probably.

Having travelled around I can see other counrties with far stricter policies, like Japan (soon to be relocating to) and Australia.

It all falls back on the government, I was watching a program on rte a while back about immigrants of latin origin who were turned back from this country despite having a good education background and even having Irish roots.

I see lots of Indians also and have worked with a few, by and large they are mostly friendly and talkative guys.

Walk down a busy street in dublin any given night and you will most likely see more non nationals who cannot give you directions to the place you are heading to rather than Irish folk.

Times are a changing.......

AARRRGH

I don't think there are that many people taking advantage of our hospitality (or whatever you want to call it) but I would agree there are lots of suitable people being turned away.

For example, a friend of mine from Africa, with extremely wealthy parents, was living here. She was not working, nor was she claiming the dole. Her father was sending her a few thousand per month to live on. She got kicked out of the country...

I should add she was also well educated (Politics degree from LSE).

Was she a sponger? No. Was she contributing to our economy? Yes.

This makes me think our system in place is a bit dumb, and doesn't look at individual cases at all.

jenny-walsh

dublindude; ya situations like that are complete crap, I also think this thread has turned into a b1atch fight between GoneShootin and mick.fr



Lets back away slowly....

Mr. Presentable

watna wrote: »

Not ever person who looks "Indian" comes from India you know.

Probably from Birmingham.

watna

nipplenuts wrote: »

Probably from Birmingham.

Or Leeds!

It's a personal pet hate of mine. My bf is an Indian South African. The amount of times people (read: mostly taxi drivers) say are you sure you're not from India when they ask him where he's from is ridiculous. One day he's going to say, actually you're right I forgot I am from India!

That's why this thread annoyed me. How do you know where people are from? By the colour of their skin? these "Indian" people could be German or American or even, god forbid :eek: Irish!

Did the OP check all their passports? They could be citizens of an EU country or married to someone who is.

AARRRGH

It think it is fair the say the Indian's who work in Centra are probably from India (based solely on the fact that nearly all Centra staff look Indian, so they appear to be targeting staff from India.)

The OP could have replaced Indian with "not from the EU". His point was they are probably not from the EU.

IMO they are probably students working part-time.