Level zero

BobSloane

having spent a few hours last night playing poker with two limerick persons at work i gained some insight into their strategys and decision making process

1. Position.
The best position at the table is the small blind. Use this to your advantage by being first to bet every street(with nothing) - or check-raising (with something)

2. Hand selection.
This is difficult for the first ten hands or so. By then though you should have a fair idea whats coming out on the flop if you have been observant. So if for example there have been a lot of jacks and sevens coming out or a lot of spades then J7 becomes a premium starting hand and Js7s becomes the mortal preflop nuts.

3. Bet sizing.
Never bet a fraction of the pot on the flop. Always a multiple. Anywhere from 1.5 times to 3 times the size of the pot is good.

4. Huge laydowns

5. Big laydowns
Occasionally you may have to laydown two suited cards pre-flop if there is very heavy action(i.e. someone goes all-in - for a lot). But never of course if you have the all-in person covered and you will have at least a quarter of your stack left if you lose.

hope someone finds this useful.

fuzzbox

BobSloane wrote: »

5. Big laydowns
Occasionally you may have to laydown two suited cards pre-flop if there is very heavy action(i.e. someone goes all-in - for a lot). But never of course if you have the all-in person covered and you will have at least a quarter of your stack left if you lose.

Even if you dont have the guy covered, you can always call with any two suited cards, if somebody else has already called, since then you will get "value".

smurph

and don't forget of course that if you have 89offsuit as opposed to 89 soooteed it's much better cause you have 2 flush draws....

and yeah picture cards are soooo pretty.

eoghan104

fuzzbox wrote: »

Even if you dont have the guy covered, you can always call with any two suited cards, if somebody else has already called, since then you will get "value".

This is wrong. It is called "Pot Value".

"Pot Value" occurs when you have already limped and there has been a raise and a call. Therefore no matter what your cards you have you are forced to call as there is money in the pot and therfore "Pot Value". This also has to be followed on the flop and turn with any draw, once there is money in the Pot you have to call due to "Pot Value"

For more advanced players this strategy can be used along with the knowledge of "whats been coming out on the flop" to devestating effect.

5starpool

I should add this thread to the strategy sticky. It could prove invaluable.

DeadParrot

Players will play their perceived lucky hand strongly.
It is the stone cold nuts to them.
K8, J9, Q9 are common favorites.
Advanced players can vary it up by having 75 and 64 as their faves

eoghan104

Good sayings to be used at the table.....

" I think Im beaten but I call."
" Ill put you all in"
" I had a feeling my heart was coming."
When no previous betting has been done on the flop..... "Re-Raise"
After losing your stack against Aces " I put you on aces"

OilBeefHooked2

BobSloane wrote: »

having spent a few hours last night playing poker with two limerick persons at work i gained some insight into their strategys and decision making

2. Hand selection.
This is difficult for the first ten hands or so. By then though you should have a fair idea whats coming out on the flop if you have been observant. So if for example there have been a lot of jacks and sevens coming out or a lot of spades then J7 becomes a premium starting hand and Js7s becomes the mortal preflop nuts.

Another thought to bear in mind for hand selection is that it doesn't matter what my opponent might have as my cards might hit a "big flop" and sure tis only costin me the price of a BB and even if the BB is half my stack cant I fold if I dont hit!

DeadParrot

eoghan104 wrote: »

Good sayings to be used at the table.....

" I think Im beaten but I call."
" Ill put you all in"
" I had a feeling my heart was coming."
When no previous betting has been done on the flop..... "Re-Raise"
After losing your stack against Aces " I put you on aces"

they were suited?

bantee

My personal favourite: " Ah sure they're only chips!"

5starpool

Heard a great one the other night. Omaha in the Fitz.

Flop of QJT with 2 diamonds. 25 to play, 4 runners. check, bet 25, raise to 175. Initial bettor thinks, and then calls with J hugh flush draw and 1 pair, other guy shows KKK for blockers only. The guy with the flush draw then says 'I called cause I knew you had 3 kings'. Kings held up and won the pot.

Playing against people with advanced reading ability like this should be avoided at all costs.

Mr.Plough

pot value lol

Idu

"I had a feeling about this hand" as they crack your aces with k4

FutureGuy

Played in a tournament in the Vic in Limerick about a year ago. A spewy player went all in preflop, I called with KK, and another player went all in.

One guy turned over K3o and the other guy turned over K5o

One player turns to me and said..."you're f***ed now kid, you're drawing dead"

Shockingly enough, my hand did actually hold up :rolleyes:

Hectorjelly

did you consider that he might have been pulling your leg?

30something

A little bit of little known history for you all.....

"Pot Value" in the earliest days of Hold'Em used to be known as "Oh, I didn't realise you were allowed raise pre-flop".

Interestingly that then became known (in the Tribecca days) as "$hit, I can't fold now or they will think I limp with nothing".

Strictly as a result of the Theory posts on forums such as 2+2 (and of course our own boards) the new purpose of the PFLCR (Pre Flop Limp Call Raise) was justified by the metagame thinkers' "Pot odds".

"Pot odds" became "Pot Value" and the reality is that these Clowns simply didnt know they were allowed to raise pre-flop!

Lao Lao

My favourite is when you make a standard raise and a donk player who is not paying attention then trys to limp only to be told by the dealer that it has been raised, and then says, 'Have to call really, I'm pot committed' even though we are only on the 3rd level of a tournament and he has a full stack behind him. Of course his 2/10 holds up against my KK......:eek:

gondorff

I saw a player call a big pf allin on a cash table with J4o and cracked Q10.

Q10: "How could you call with that"?
J4o: "Sure I knew you had nothing"!

Evidently, if you are sure the other player 'has nothing', you must call regardless of your own cards.

Also, a certain percentage of the time you must call 'just for the craic'.

The Al Lad

It's only a matter of time before there's a homicide at one of these poker games,

steer clear of Atari Expo:p

eddiehead

My favourite is......

Pot odds? Would you stop, sure thats only a reason for lads who think they know how to play poker to call you with nothin!! Pot odds my ****! Your either in front or behind!

Captain Tom

lol this reminds me about 2 years ago my dad asked me to write out like 15 "Rules of Thumb" so that he could learn how to play really quickly. i told him it would be a waste of time to do so but he persisted so i went ahead with it. i found the piece of paper i wrote it on 3 or 4 months ago and it was some of the stupidest $hit ive ever seen in my life.

"never ever call a bet postflop. always raise or fold"

"always call reraises with suited connectors, especially vs lag players"

"limp call anything up to 5bbs with pocket pairs"

"always bet if you have no other way to win the pot"

the sad thing is i was beating $1/2 on paddypower very comfertably at the time. god i miss tribeca.

connie147

This happened the other night at a pub game I was running. Players had formed a cash table and I was standing there looking on.(Now you wouldnt describe any one of these 9 players as being a good player,they're all pub players and happy with their lot).

1/2, raise utg to 15, 5 callers, button moves all in for €275. Folded back to player in mp who dwells up for ages. "I'll have to call even though I think youve a good hand" he finally declares. So he puts in his last €250. The all-in player tables his cards, AcAs. "yep," says the caller,"thats exactly what I thought you had". He tabled KcQc himself and got 2 clubs on the flop and a club on the river to scoop the pot. "the only reason I called was because you gave me the value" says he while the rest of the table nodded in agreement.

I kid you not. Not only did he think he had value to call,the rest of the table agreed with him.

What we have to try and understand is that pub players think on a totally different level to those of us that play the game seriously. Trying to attract these type of players to play in a properly structured game instead of the gamble fests they are used to is a waste of time. Because they dont understand it and they dont really want it.

bantee

Its very true about the pub game players having a totally different mentality towards the game. They have a tendancy to limp in any position with big pocket pairs and very rairly raise pre-flop.

It was funny in a pub game a couple of weeks ago, when a guy in late position limps into a 5-way pot with pockets aces. Me on the small blind with k3o says I'll take a look at the flop. I hit bottom pair and bet it and its folded to the guy with aces and he flat calls.
Another 3 on the turn, and I bet it and he goes all-in, which I call.

He is then amazed and upset that his aces get cracked by a set of 3s!

I told him later if he raised before the flop that I would have folded my muck but he says he was trying "to pull a few more suckers into the pot"!!!!.

I just said no more after that......

ocallagh

there are 4 types of pub players

1) Paddy who owns a field but never puts anything on it.
His desire to deceive is greater than his desire to win. He'll limp with premium hands and slow play them against 4 players. He'll also triple barrell and show. He always seems to have a fresh pint of Smithwicks but has never been spotted at the bar.

2) John who recently welded a pringle tube to the back of his exhaust.
He attempts to win every 2nd pot. He'll do very well early on (when Paddy is not in the pot). He'll also show his bluffs. As the night goes on he'll get too drunk and a) get kicked out or b) move all his chips in with the back of his hand while holding a pint bottle of bulmers in the other.

3) Michael who has a backup pair of slippers and is often found down at the community hall.
He limp calls with 'picture cards', Ax and pairs. When he hits he prefers to just call, but if he's first to act he'll bet small, always slowly. He went to school with Paddy and silently hates it when Paddy successfully traps him.

4) Dave, who is recently married, has 2 kids and is using his 'Get out of Jail card' for the night.
He is probably the best player at the table but that doesn't matter because of the structure of the event. He gets knocked out by Ax all the time and reads boards.

BobSloane

ocallagh wrote: »

He went to school with Paddy and silently hates it when Paddy successfully traps him.

ROFL

brianmc

ocallagh wrote: »

there are 4 types of pub players

1) Paddy who owns a field but never puts anything on it.

I think I know him.

bantee

LOL! ocallagh that has to be the funniest post I've read in ages.
I know all 4 of those players! I suppose I'm most like Dave; squeezing in the weekly pub game and the occasional tournament! Ha ha

BobSloane

I think you should write a story featuring these charachters o callagh.
A tale of corruption,bravado,jealousy,frustration,adultury,murder and no limit holdem. Set it somewhere remote and easy on the eye.John B. Keane stlye maybe.Then sell it to hollywood. A story of rural Ireland and poker? Sure the yanks couldn't get enough of it. I can see it now -

Tom Cruise cast(again) with dodgy irish accent - "double pairs, jacks and fours."
The husband who reads boards and gets AA cracked again - "how can u play j4"
Tom Cruise - "Pot value. And sure they were suited. And jacks and fours are coming out the whole time"

Big laugh out of Tom and the rest of the pub. Some musicans start spontaneously playing ceili music and suddenly there's a load of irish dancers jumping around the place.

The yanks would love that shiit

5starpool

IO Sat last night in the Fitz.

Raise and a call preflop, around @1500 in the pot. Flop of KhQc8h. A checks, B bets 1500, A raise to 5k, B call. Turn blank. A bets 5000, B goes all in for about 4500. A shows 88 for a set, B shows AJo. River is T, to scoop for B.

Other player nods and says to B "Ah you're right, you have to test your luck out sometimes". I nearly laughed out loud, but managed to contain myself somehow.

CaptainNemo

eoghan104 wrote: »

Good sayings to be used at the table.....

" I think Im beaten but I call."
" Ill put you all in"
" I had a feeling my heart was coming."
When no previous betting has been done on the flop..... "Re-Raise"
After losing your stack against Aces " I put you on aces"

Did Jamie Gold write a book?

CelticPhantom

Player limp calling with KQ on a flop of 9 5 2.

"Sure a picture is bound to come with all those small cards out there".

Ozzy20

"score"

CHD

''dead''

Rossibaby

the famous '' sure i'll have a look at the flop'' with high pockets or AK,nothing beats a good limp after all.

or...i knew you had the straight...i knew it,it was obvious...but i had to call,top pair like

a limp with pocket 2s,then a big raise.''ah i have to call that''

and when you get a bad beat after hitting something nice on the flop the table will obviously say ''you should have folded,ya had to have him on the flush draw'' what!

gondorff

You have KK and the flop is 68J. Some clown calls your allin with T6, blank on the turn and a ten on the river.
At least one of the other jokers at the table says "nice call".

Nice call?!! wtf?

aidankk

ocallagh wrote: »

there are 4 types of pub players

1) Paddy who owns a field but never puts anything on it.
His desire to deceive is greater than his desire to win. He'll limp with premium hands and slow play them against 4 players. He'll also triple barrell and show. He always seems to have a fresh pint of Smithwicks but has never been spotted at the bar.

2) John who recently welded a pringle tube to the back of his exhaust.
He attempts to win every 2nd pot. He'll do very well early on (when Paddy is not in the pot). He'll also show his bluffs. As the night goes on he'll get too drunk and a) get kicked out or b) move all his chips in with the back of his hand while holding a pint bottle of bulmers in the other.

3) Michael who has a backup pair of slippers and is often found down at the community hall.
He limp calls with 'picture cards', Ax and pairs. When he hits he prefers to just call, but if he's first to act he'll bet small, always slowly. He went to school with Paddy and silently hates it when Paddy successfully traps him.

4) Dave, who is recently married, has 2 kids and is using his 'Get out of Jail card' for the night.
He is probably the best player at the table but that doesn't matter because of the structure of the event. He gets knocked out by Ax all the time and reads boards.

Jeez i recognise Dave it me, (not so recently married) except i now play worse than everyone else.. How did i go from TAG to Lag to calling station who says im pot committed a lot. :mad::mad::mad: Worse is that i know im playing bad and just keep doing it lately...

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

dannydiamond

This "nice call" comment seems to be rampant in recent times,ie if you make a bad call and suck out it therefore becomes a "GOOD CALL" or a "NICE CALL" !?!

Jesus Wept

People who say 'nice hands' at the end of the pot.

There is one nice hand, the winning one.
The other is the worst hand to have in poker, the second best hand.

mistabutta

jesus i know every single one of these players

i deal at a casino and one of the best ones i've heard was when the flop came down something like 72A and one guy declares over everyone "i dont know..everyone says that 72 is the "worst hand in poker"..and i've seen more flops with sevens and twos on them!!".. and another guy who self declared that he was the best player in the casino nodded his head knowingly and said "fair point fair point"

i nearly pissed myself seriously

that same guy: if there is a raise of say 4 big blinds and someone calls he automatically thinks he's getting 'value' with any two cards lol and will not let go of his big blind..these people are just not intelligent at all

Lao Lao

Last week in a tournament, a flop of AK10 comes down with three players in. Player A ships it even though he is covered by the other two. Player B folds, Player C calls with AK, Player A shows a raggy 10 and as he's leaving the table says 'Sure, I had to see where I stood in that hand' :eek:

Lazare

Rossibaby wrote: »

the famous '' sure i'll have a look at the flop'' with high pockets or AK,nothing beats a good limp after all.

Is it just me, or does anyone else cringe when people say 'pockets'?

eoghan104

Lazare wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else cringe when people say 'pockets'?

Only one thing annoys me more......... "the rockets"

5starpool

Lazare wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else cringe when people say 'pockets'?

Not that much wrong with it really, but at the same time it is something I associate more with players that tend to be more pub players than anything. They also refer to buybacks.

ollyk1

aidankk wrote: »

Jeez i recognise Dave it me, (not so recently married) except i now play worse than everyone else.. How did i go from TAG to Lag to calling station who says im pot committed a lot. :mad::mad::mad: Worse is that i know im playing bad and just keep doing it lately...

Playing consistently in a pub game seems to do that Aidan.

My brother used to play a fearless TAG game two years ago. He wasn't a great player or anything but he generally played well preflop and on the flop and as a result prospered in decent structured €100 tournies in Dublin that he would play on occasion.

Since then he's been playing a weekly pub game full of all the artistes so eloquently described by ocallagh and as a result any time he comes to play a game in Dublin he limp spews for the first two levels and then gets himself pot committed in ridiculous spots. The worst thing from his point of view is he also knows it!

Idu

eoghan104 wrote: »

Only one thing annoys me more......... "the rockets"

The full cringeworthy sentence is "I hate the rockets, sure I always lose with them"

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ollyk1

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The most annoying thing for me is when people seem to associate good play with getting good hands. By this I mean that there is no appreciation of situations where a hand is a cooler and there was no possibillity of a different outcome. Instead, you will get some guy proud as punch at how he outplayed his opponent or was 'setting him up for da' or 'trapping' him. I find this ridiculously frustrating.

It's almost up there with dealer tilt for me (which is actually the worst tilt I suffer from).

I hate the fact that merely watching some moron, with a smug idiot grin stretched across his imbecile features because he filled a gutshot, and someone had a set which they couldn't in a million years in good conscience laydown against this guy who would play top pair sh1te kicker the same way, and his shortstacking ass got a double up puts me on tilt. :mad: :rolleyes:;)

Idu

Scenario 1:
Player A loses his stack with aces to player B calling a large reraise with 57off and flopping two pair

Player A:"How could you call that?"

Scenario 2:
Same as above but player B has 75sooted.

Player A:"Yeah i shoulda bet more, you had to call that"

CHD

''i never win races''

mormank

a friend of mine was playin in the fitz in limerick a month ago. raised pre flop with aces. got 2 callers. flop comes king 8 2 rainbow. he bets 3/4 pot, one caller. turn is a ten, he gets it all in against a guy with 9 ten off, ten on the river of course and he scoops the pot. when he asks how he called the flop bet the reply came, sure i thought you had nothing so if i hit on the turn i would be ahead!!!! ffs!! wp