Tractor on a motorway - only in Ireland?

unkel

That's right. A tractor. On the M9 ( the little bit of motorway going from the M7 past Naas towards the N9 at Kilcullen)

I've driven cars for 22 years in dozens of countries, but that was a first for me. Mind the tractor was doing about 50km/h, not that much slower than the average vehicle on an Irish motorway

patrickc

unkel wrote: »

That's right. A tractor. On the M9 ( the little bit of motorway going from the M7 past Naas towards the N9 at Kilcullen)

I've driven cars for 22 years in dozens of countries, but that was a first for me. Mind the tractor was doing about 50km/h, not that much slower than the average vehicle on an Irish motorway

ive seen them on that stretch regularly and on up the m7 unkel

mikemac

Was it a contractor doing maintenace on the motorway? Landscaping maybe?

Because if it was then how else are they supposed to get the tractor to where it needs to be

Saruman

exactly.. never noticed you need tractors to cut the grass, such as on the M50?

Then again, if it was JUST a tractor and did not have the grass cutter on the back then he was just chancing his arm.

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

That's right. A tractor. On the M9 ( the little bit of motorway going from the M7 past Naas towards the N9 at Kilcullen)

I've driven cars for 22 years in dozens of countries, but that was a first for me. Mind the tractor was doing about 50km/h, not that much slower than the average vehicle on an Irish motorway

Is it not completely legal? It ticks all the boxes for being allowed on a motorway. e.g. over 50cc and capable of 50k under its own propulsion.

Saruman

Yes but its a slow moving vehicle which is a no no.

maidhc

Saruman wrote: »

Yes but its a slow moving vehicle which is a no no.

It does 50km/h so it isn't a slow moving vehicle in the eyes of the law.

unkel

Looked like an agricultural tractor. It was pulling a huge trailer too

maidhc wrote: »

Is it not completely legal?

It believe it is legal. 50km/h on a motorway is madness though imho. Try that in any other country and the police will take you off the road pronto

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

It believe it is legal. 50km/h on a motorway is madness though imho. Try that in any other country and the police will take you off the road pronto

I don't see the problem. I would suggest an SMV sign should be mandatory though.

blackbox

Did he have his hazard lights on?

- everything is allowed in Ireland as long as you put on your hazard lights.:D

cantdecide

Saruman wrote: »

you need tractors to cut the grass

Ever hear of a low loader?? Cork dual carriageways in the morning rush-hour are littered with loadalls and JCBs. It's a holy show....

niceirishfella

If it was a JCB fastrac those things will do 50kph. My Brother has one (he's a farmer)and its a nice piece of engineering, air brakes, full suspension, blue tooth phone car kit the lot!

but as far as i know, tractors on Motorways are not allowed, except if they are doing maintenance as mnetioned before.

maidhc

cantdecide wrote: »

Ever hear of a low loader?? Cork dual carriageways in the morning rush-hour are littered with loadalls and JCBs. It's a holy show....

It is also littered by muppets in cars, so I don't see the difference a few JCBs will make.

Tractors ARE allowed on motorways once they have a design speed of 50km/h. End of Story.

A fastrac can far exceed 50k, but in Ireland they are restricted to 50k so they can use green diesel. Many new tractors can do 50k, it isn't that unusual. Expect to see many more on the motorways into the future.

cantdecide

maidhc wrote: »

I don't see the difference a few JCBs will make....Tractors ARE allowed on motorways

JCB driver, maidhc??

Are you suggesting the car drivers should clear out of the JCB, tractor and loadalls way???

Whether they are or not is not the discussion here. Slow moving vehicles (i don't mean the state's definition- i mean reality;)), or mobile brick walls as i call them, tootling along at snails pace in the middle of the rush hour, causing certain death to car drivers that would hit them (where the JCB driver would be 100% ok) is one of the most idiotic sights on our roads. They are waiting for many people to be killed before this changes.

JCBs and farm machinery belong on low-loaders, not on dual carriageways.

yellow012

Yeah this subject was discussed a few weeks back.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055183680
And we had the same gobdaws who couldn't see a problem with it.

maidhc

cantdecide wrote: »

JCB driver, maidhc??

Are you suggesting the car drivers should clear out of the JCB, tractor and loadalls way???

Suggesting they shouldn't hit them if they are paying proper attention. Same way you are not supposed to hit the car in front when they brake suddenly.

Indeed I do own a JCB and a few tractors, but am a solicitor by profession.I do also commute the N25 road ever day, and really can't see the problem. Most accidents (of which they are many) are normally caused by cars, more often than not people who can't handle the cobh cross slip road!

If a driver has anyway half decent skills of observation and the common sense to realise the tractor is likely to be doing 30mph there should be no problem.

cantdecide

maidhc wrote: »

Suggesting they shouldn't hit them if they are paying proper attention. Same way you are not supposed to hit the car in front when they brake suddenly.

Indeed I do own a JCB and a few tractors, but am a solicitor by profession.I do also commute the N25 road ever day, and really can't see the problem. Most accidents (of which they are many) are normally caused by cars, more often than not people who can't handle the cobh cross slip road!

If a driver has anyway half decent skills of observation and the common sense to realise the tractor is likely to be doing 30mph there should be no problem.

Not getting into a debate about common sense- My mate has to drag machinery with tractors and his heart is broken over it. He thinks it's 100% wrong. I travelled Midleton to ballincollig every day for 3 years and I saw so many near accidents caused gluts of people trying to overtake an instant bottleneck. Yes, it is legal, but also yes the DC becomes a b-road.

PS, you would have this opinion, wouldn't you. Buy a low-loader Maidhc.

End of.

Vikings

If you think that is bad... How about some donkey in a Landcruiser facing the wrong way in the overtaking lane on the N4!

Just past the speed camera there is a small slip that leads to the N4 from Lucan (just past the maxol in Lucan) and this guy turned right from that slip road instead of merging with traffic heading in the right direction.

How he managed it I don't know but he obviously ignored the big no right turn signs about there, if it wasnt for the fact it was dark out and he had his lights on there would have been some pile up there.

It really is a strange feeling driving towards another car's headlights in the same lane

maidhc

cantdecide wrote: »

Buy a low-loader Maidhc.

Sure... I'll drop €100k on an Articulated truck and trailer just so some people need not bother observe what is in front of them....

The income from the farm would need to go up a little i'm afraid!

A small bit of reality please!

Timmaay

Was the tractor travelling on the slow lane or hard shoulder? The few times I'm on a tractor on a good road (but never the motorway:rolleyes:), I always drive on hardshoulder if possible. I know i'm not meant to, but I'd rather risk getting pulled over than have lunatics passing me out in insanely dangerous places (and lets face it, who waits behind a tractor on a solid white line/non overtaking place anyway:mad:)

cantdecide

maidhc wrote: »

Sure... I'll drop €100k on an Articulated truck and trailer just so some people need not bother observe what is in front of them....

The income from the farm would need to go up a little i'm afraid!

A small bit of reality please!

'For every half a dozen eggs you need a carton' If you need all that machinery, you need a means of tranporting it safely. If you're business isn't viable when resourced correctly- you need a new business.

In other words- it's your problem not the oher road users'.

cashmni1

Vikings wrote: »

If you think that is bad... How about some donkey in a Landcruiser facing the wrong way in the overtaking lane on the N4!

Just past the speed camera there is a small slip that leads to the N4 from Lucan (just past the maxol in Lucan) and this guy turned right from that slip road instead of merging with traffic heading in the right direction.

How he managed it I don't know but he obviously ignored the big no right turn signs about there, if it wasnt for the fact it was dark out and he had his lights on there would have been some pile up there.

It really is a strange feeling driving towards another car's headlights in the same lane

Smells like a traveler to me.....

Slutmonkey57b

Tractors?

I saw a funeral procession going northbound on the m50 recently.

groupb

maidhc wrote: »

Sure... I'll drop €100k on an Articulated truck and trailer just so some people need not bother observe what is in front of them....

The income from the farm would need to go up a little i'm afraid!

A small bit of reality please!

Maidhc , If I need a few quid more , does that mean that I am justified robbing the local AIB? Maybe you could get me off? Just because you need to move your machinery around , it does'nt mean your well within your rights to break the law. Do what every other industry does when they have to transport things. Buy a truck!

emaherx

cantdecide wrote: »

'For every half a dozen eggs you need a carton' If you need all that machinery, you need a means of tranporting it safely. If you're business isn't viable when resourced correctly- you need a new business.

In other words- it's your problem not the oher road users'.

Emm??? If I have a road legal tractor capable of driving at the required minimum speed limit for a motorway with Tax and Insurance why the hell would I buy a lorry which 1. I don't need for any thing else and 2. don't have a licence for 3. would still not be aloud drive at the same maximum speed that cars are anyway 4. would require additional Tax and insurance 5. dosen't affect anybody any more than the person driving a car up the motorway at 50 Km/h.

maidhc

groupb wrote: »

Maidhc , If I need a few quid more , does that mean that I am justified robbing the local AIB? Maybe you could get me off? Just because you need to move your machinery around , it does'nt mean your well within your rights to break the law. Do what every other industry does when they have to transport things. Buy a truck!

... I'm not breaking the law... and believe me I know exactly what it is!

Any vehicle I bring on the road is taxed, insured and roadworthy! The only difficulty with my vehicle is it can only do 40k, hence cannot be driven on a motorway, and as a result never is.

It is perfectly legal to drive on a dual carriage way though, and I do when necessary, which is about once or twice a year. Get over it!

emaherx

groupb wrote: »

Maidhc , If I need a few quid more , does that mean that I am justified robbing the local AIB? Maybe you could get me off? Just because you need to move your machinery around , it does'nt mean your well within your rights to break the law. Do what every other industry does when they have to transport things. Buy a truck!

He's not breaking the Law if the tractor is capable of exceeding the minimum required speed limit.

Andrewf20

Slightly off topic, but with the hardshoulder coned off from the M1 down past the Finglas exit on the M50 for impending roadworks, there was a car (Escort) stopped, stranded in the slow lane with hazards on. Nearly caused a pile up.

cantdecide

emaherx wrote: »

Emm??? If I have a road legal tractor capable of driving at the required minimum speed limit for a motorway with Tax and Insurance why the hell would I buy a lorry which 1. I don't need for any thing else and 2. don't have a licence for 3. would still not be aloud drive at the same maximum speed that cars are anyway 4. would require additional Tax and insurance 5. dosen't affect anybody any more than the person driving a car up the motorway at 50 Km/h.

cantdecide wrote: »

Slow moving vehicles i don't mean the state's definition- i mean in reality

'Technically, I'm allowed and I won't pay for the proper method' don't fly IMO

maidhc

cantdecide wrote: »

'Technically, I'm allowed and I won't pay for the proper method' don't fly IMO

It isn't technical. It is quite clear. Unless you want to enforce mandatory minimum speed limits on motorways you are barking up the wrong tree.*


*These may be a good idea and I think I would support them, but for now there is no issue as to the law and legality of the matter.

Bogger77

Luckily, your or my opinion isn't law.

The Irish law, as stated on the sign at entrace to Motorways, states vehicle must be capable of 50Km per hour, it doesn't state, nor do the reg's that a works vehicle (tractor, crane, etc) is barred. It merely states >50km per hour top speed.

UK reg's bar Agri vehicles from Motorways.

Run_to_da_hills

I see tractors regularly on the M7, If they keep to the hard shoulder with a flashing beacon can see no harm in them. They are used by the NRA contractors.

emaherx

cantdecide wrote: »

'Technically, I'm allowed and I won't pay for the proper method' don't fly IMO

No they can't fly that would be silly

Max allowable speed limit of a lorry is 50mph or 80km/h
Funny enough there are tractors capable of these speeds and above. Only they are not allowed, legally they can only achieve 55km/h.

So technically its down to law that some of these tractors have to drive so slow on the motorway.

I even know of a tractor capable of 60mph or 96km/h

emaherx

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I see tractors regularly on the M7, If they keep to the hard shoulder with a flashing beacon can see no harm in them. They are used by the NRA contractors.

Staying to the hard shoulder would be illegal with the exception of NRA contractors required for highway maintenance.

meathstevie

Not ideal but if you're talking about a farmer/contractor going from A to B and they manage to do at least 50kph on the flat there's nothing wrong with it. Rumour has it there's more and more road transport being done with fast tractors and trailers though ( green diesel versus white in lorries ).

mick.fr

maidhc wrote: »

It does 50km/h so it isn't a slow moving vehicle in the eyes of the law.

In many EU countries, driving at less than 80 km on the motorway is illegal.
Unless you have a special authorization and still this is happening at night with police escort.
Tractors are usually completely banned in other countries as well.

yellow012

Regarding the legality of tractors on motorways, in the rules of the road it says:
Vehicles incapable of a speed of at least 50km/h are not allowed to use the motorway. So any fastrac or whatever that can exceed 50km/h theoretically can use them.
But it also says:
You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.
So if your plodding along at 55km/h along the M9 or whatever and there is a 2 mile tailback built up behind you then I'd imagine the Guards would be well within their powers to pull you over.
So it is not so black and white the legality of these things.

ejmaztec

I haven't seen more than a couple of cases where tractor drivers get prosecuted for anything. Most of the ones that I see have broken front and rear lights/indicators and no lights or number-plates on the trailers. Are they exempt?

maidhc

yellow012 wrote: »

So if your plodding along at 55km/h along the M9 or whatever and there is a 2 mile tailback built up behind you then I'd imagine the Guards would be well within their powers to pull you over.

They would, but you would have to be straddling two lanes in order to succeed in doing what you suggest!

jmcdoe

I think you're all looking at it from a wrong perspective. The reality is, in Ireland there are no Motorways. M9 is a cul-de-sac and I honestly don't see a problem with a tractor parking on it. I park on M50 daily for hours. Thanks to EasyPark I can even use the extra parking lane where some idiots always try to pay cash even that this particular lane has a HUGE sign saying "NO CASH" while all the other parking lanes say "CASHIER".

The real solutions is not tot ban tractors and L drivers on driveways but to build actual Motorways. And even the government agrees to that, they just say they don't care, everyone comes here for business and jobs anyway.

AngryHippie

truth !!!!


tractors are far more vexing on small roads than the motorway.
If you crash into the back of one on the motorway, you are a total dope, but that will have been cured by death. They are a necessary evil, and most operators pull in to let traffic by whenever they get a chance, you get the occasional ignoramus that doesn't have a car license and doesn't see things from everyone elses pov. To be fair, Farmers pay road tax just the same as the rest of us (mostly) If the tractor is fit for the minimum speed, let them at it and don't be such a bunch of whiny little bitches:eek:

S.I.R

unkel wrote: »

Mind the tractor was doing about 50km/h, not that much slower than the average vehicle on an Irish motorway

indeed , though you adverage 10km/h on the m50 if your lucky

emaherx

meathstevie wrote: »

Not ideal but if you're talking about a farmer/contractor going from A to B and they manage to do at least 50kph on the flat there's nothing wrong with it. Rumour has it there's more and more road transport being done with fast tractors and trailers though ( green diesel versus white in lorries ).

In England this cannot be done as it is illegal to run any vehicle not being used for agriculture on Marked Diesel. Even vintage tractors driven to fairs or road runs must empty out all Marked Diesel and change their filters.
I wonder if things will change here to curb this as well, although If one was to fill a tractor with road diesel there would be no need to restrict tractors to 55km/h although lorry licenses would be required also.

Trantor tractors cannot be registered in this country as tractors and must be filled with white diesel due to their 60mph top speed.

mick.fr wrote: »

In many EU countries, driving at less than 80 km on the motorway is illegal.
Unless you have a special authorization and still this is happening at night with police escort.
Tractors are usually completely banned in other countries as well.

Thats true, but as long as our minimum speed limit is 50km/h with no mention of a restriction of work vehicles, why would they stop?

yellow012 wrote: »

Regarding the legality of tractors on motorways, in the rules of the road it says:
Vehicles incapable of a speed of at least 50km/h are not allowed to use the motorway. So any fastrac or whatever that can exceed 50km/h theoretically can use them.
But it also says:
You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.
So if your plodding along at 55km/h along the M9 or whatever and there is a 2 mile tailback built up behind you then I'd imagine the Guards would be well within their powers to pull you over.
So it is not so black and white the legality of these things.

But the speed deemed to be acceptable is 50km/h and there is an over taking lane. If a tractor was traveling at 55km/h on the outside lane then the gaurds would pull him over since no one is allowed to overtake on the inside otherwise there is no interference with other traffic.

ejmaztec wrote: »

I haven't seen more than a couple of cases where tractor drivers get prosecuted for anything. Most of the ones that I see have broken front and rear lights/indicators and no lights or number-plates on the trailers. Are they exempt?

Yes all tractors in Ireland have no lights or number plates especially the ones
you see driving on motorways also they are ulikely to have brakes :rolleyes:

Tractors most certinly are not exempt. All tractors most be roadworthy although there is at present no offical test (this is likely to change).

I will agree with you that there are far too many unroadworthy tractors on the road, mostly old bearly capable of 30km/h poorly maintained by old fellas who don't give a sh1t.(and probably don't travel more than 1 or 2km from farm yard by road. still shouldn't happen I know!)

Most tractors I see are fairly well maintaned especially when it comes to lights and trailer lights. In fact this is my highest priority however most car drivers don't see the lights or else think that flashing yellow indicator on right hand side of tractor means it is now the right time to overtake.

one failing by most farmers which you are right about is trailer number plates

yellow012

maidhc wrote: »

They would, but you would have to be straddling two lanes in order to succeed in doing what you suggest!

Maidhc and emaherx from your replies I can tell that neither of you are regular users of busy motorways??

I'll explain why it's a problem, if you have a slow moving vehicle using a busy motorway, it effectively removes one lane from operation at that point in the motorway, Traffic on the M7, M9, M1 generally moves at 110 - 120kph in the overtaking lane, and 100+ in the driving lane, reducing the driving lane to 55-60kph for that spot causes everyone in the driving lane to either slow down to 50kph or overtake, when one person can't immediately overtake at some point they will have to slow down and then they will eventually move into the overtaking lane at 50 - 70kph causing both lanes to slow, with traffic building behind it.

So yup it is a problem and I've seen tractors pulled over on the M7 by guards.

emaherx

yellow012 wrote: »

Maidhc and emaherx from your replies I can tell that neither of you are regular users of busy motorways??

I'll explain why it's a problem, if you have a slow moving vehicle using a busy motorway, it effectively removes one lane from operation at that point in the motorway, Traffic on the M7, M9, M1 generally moves at 110 - 120kph in the overtaking lane, and 100+ in the driving lane, reducing the driving lane to 55-60kph for that spot causes everyone in the driving lane to either slow down to 50kph or overtake, when one person can't immediately overtake at some point they will have to slow down and then they will eventually move into the overtaking lane at 50 - 70kph causing both lanes to slow, with traffic building behind it.

So yup it is a problem and I've seen tractors pulled over on the M7 by guards.

Ok good point, but you can't ban tractors from the Motorway unless you increase the Minimum speed ie. from 50km/h to at least 80 km/h because the motorway clearly state 50km/h.

I could technically drive my car that slow on the motorway if I want
hell my LR Defender doesn't go much faster anyway:D

tractors you have seen pulled over most have been 40K or slower models therefore illegal

Alun

emaherx wrote: »

Ok good point, but you can't ban tractors from the Motorway unless you increase the Minimum speed ie. from 50km/h to at least 80 km/h because the motorway clearly state 50km/h.

I could technically drive my car that slow on the motorway if I want
hell my LR Defender doesn't go much faster anyway:D

tractors you have seen pulled over most have been 40K or slower models therefore illegal

There's nothing (as far as I can see ) in the regulations that say anything about a minimum speed on motorways, merely that vehicles have to be capable of a minimum speed of 50km/h, not that they have to travel at a minimum of that speed.

In the UK, and pretty much everywhere else I'd wager, agricultural vehicles are banned from motorways, full stop. That they're allowed on motorways here is, as far as I'm concerned, an anomaly that should be fixed sooner rather than later. Unfortunately until that happens (if it ever does) we're stuck with them.

There are many things in this world, not only to do with road traffic regulations, that although they aren't technically illegal, are often irresponsible, possibly dangerous and otherwise plain daft. That doesn't mean you can't use your common sense and/or sense of civil responsibility and just not do them, regardless of their legal status.

maidhc

yellow012 wrote: »

Maidhc and emaherx from your replies I can tell that neither of you are regular users of busy motorways??

Drive the M7 at least once a week. In a car may I add.

I normally try and do about 130km/h on the motorway, and regularly have to drop to below 100km/h because there is an old dear or something in the overtaking lane.

Trucks can only do 80kh/h anyway, and while I know they are not allowed in the overtaking lane, slow car drivers doing 81km/h are.

yellow012

emaherx wrote: »

Ok good point, but you can't ban tractors from the Motorway unless you increase the Minimum speed ie. from 50km/h to at least 80 km/h because the motorway clearly state 50km/h.

I could technically drive my car that slow on the motorway if I want
hell my LR Defender doesn't go much faster anyway:D

tractors you have seen pulled over most have been 40K or slower models therefore illegal

This goes back to my original point, it says in the rules of the roads that:
You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.
and I ain't making this up as a copy of the ROTR just came through my letter box.
So if you or I were driving that slow on a motorway in a car/jeep/tractor/whatever and the Gardai saw us they would be within their rights to pull us over.

Bogger77

yellow012 wrote: »

This goes back to my original point, it says in the rules of the roads that:
You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.
and I ain't making this up as a copy of the ROTR just came through my letter box.
So if you or I were driving that slow on a motorway in a car/jeep/tractor/whatever and the Gardai saw us they would be within their rights to pull us over.

Define SLOW on a motorway.(in legal terms)

driving in near side lane, at 50 to 60kmph, is not interfering with other traffic. There's an overtaking lane, available for other traffic. Straddling 2 lanes, driving in hard shoulder, increasing speed to match vehicle trying to over take you, etc. That's interfering with other traffic.

E92

Bogger77 wrote: »

Define SLOW on a motorway.(in legal terms)

driving in near side lane, at 50 to 60kmph, is not interfering with other traffic. There's an overtaking lane, available for other traffic. Straddling 2 lanes, driving in hard shoulder, increasing speed to match vehicle trying to over take you, etc. That's interfering with other traffic.

The signs as you approach a Motorway say "No slow vehicles(under 50 km/h)" so I'm guessing 50 is whwat they call "slow"(though I think 100 km/h is slow!)

Boggins127

Bogger77 wrote: »

Define SLOW on a motorway.(in legal terms)

driving in near side lane, at 50 to 60kmph, is not interfering with other traffic. There's an overtaking lane, available for other traffic. Straddling 2 lanes, driving in hard shoulder, increasing speed to match vehicle trying to over take you, etc. That's interfering with other traffic.

Man i drive tractors to but 50-60kph in the slow lane is too slow on a motorway aswell... when i drive tractors i try stay off the motorways becuz of people moanin n the necessity to pull over every so often to let cars pass because of heavy traffic.. now if a tractor has a 50k box n never actually can hit 50k eg pulling a load etc does that not mean that the vehicle is not able to go at least 50kph?????? now i think transporting things from a 2 b is neccesary but every tractor driver shud just stay off motorways its soo much handier...
Thanks,
:cool: